The promise is not for the Glazers, it’s for us the fans, and it is a major reason I prefer SJ bid. Also Brexit Jim is a spanner.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Bloody copycats
But apparently Raine are supposed to be doing the best for the club so it is relevant.
They are obviously way more than that, they are work essentials for many people and a potential lifeline for elderly people living alone. But we're getting way off topic.
You are aware that most vegetarians (and vegans) don't eat chicken, right? And just because you draw the moral line on some things at a certain point doesn't mean you have to completely reject everything in life that is problematic
If we remove the twitter silliness from the other night, the last bit of concrete news was the Boy Jassim gibbering away at a dial tone, leaving yet another bid after the deadline that was still short of the INEOS offer.
I haven’t been on here much lately and after reading a decent amount of this thread I remembered why. Not at all how I expected the fans of a great club like Manchester United to be talking and acting but hey who am I to judge.
I think both buyers are pretty shitty but the justification of the Qatar bid is hilarious. After reading this you would be led to believe that SJR is worth no more that $100 and can’t afford the club at all where SJ is worth hundreds of billions of dollars but isn’t State backed at all. When I’m reality SJRs personal net worth is about 20 times more and even 4 times as much as the Chelsea owner if google is to believed. So it’s not like he is some poor guy who can’t invest at all.
Now would SJR be a good owner, fecked if I know, maybe not. But Qatar haven’t exactly set the world on fire with PSG so what evidence is there that they will come in and make us immediately better. Yeah city spend a shitload but they are incredibly well run from top to bottom and I don’t see either side coming in and making into that type of powerhouse.
The only thing I don’t want is to be used as a global propaganda piece for Qatar. Buthopefully that doesn’t happen and this “life long fan” who is buying us and promising all these things delivers on them and we see a well run football club at the end of this all. But all three options o see(Glazers staying, SJR and SJ) I don’t see thathappening unfortunately.
feck I rambled on with some shit that probably makes no sense but anyways that’s how I feel on this all and hopefully I’m very wrong.
I think both buyers are pretty shitty but the justification of the Qatar bid is hilarious. After reading this you would be led to believe that SJR is worth no more that $100 and can’t afford the club at all where SJ is worth hundreds of billions of dollars but isn’t State backed at all. When I’m reality SJRs personal net worth is about 20 times more and even 4 times as much as the Chelsea owner if google is to believed. So it’s not like he is some poor guy who can’t invest at all.
Now would SJR be a good owner, fecked if I know, maybe not. But Qatar haven’t exactly set the world on fire with PSG so what evidence is there that they will come in and make us immediately better. Yeah city spend a shitload but they are incredibly well run from top to bottom and I don’t see either side coming in and making into that type of powerhouse.
The only thing I don’t want is to be used as a global propaganda piece for Qatar. Buthopefully that doesn’t happen and this “life long fan” who is buying us and promising all these things delivers on them and we see a well run football club at the end of this all. But all three options o see(Glazers staying, SJR and SJ) I don’t see thathappening unfortunately.
feck I rambled on with some shit that probably makes no sense but anyways that’s how I feel on this all and hopefully I’m very wrong.
Mount problems.
Or you just support the team your family supported, do like the romanticism though.
Or you support the team whose kit you liked, or your favourite player played for, or because you thought they have a cool name. Whatever. Over time you start to feel a kinship with that team. So it will bother you if/when they become a pawn in a sportswashing project. Actually, it evidently won’t bother everyone. I’m just explaining why it bothers some people.
Not saying I don’t agree with you here but not once have you mentioned who the owners were or what they stood for as a factor for fandom?
Why would they be? Nobody buys a product because they like the company that makes them. But they can end up boycotting them if they object to how that company behaves.
Yeh, of course it bothers people but taking enjoyment out of your life, football will truly be the only thing going for some people. It makes no sense to crush your enjoyment to prove a standing which isn’t going to change or do anything.
You would have far more success grouping up and making your voices clear in the ground then just not going.
It’s just an indication of the current state of the world that people feel you have to be all in or all out. It’s the same process that leads to huge divides your seeing it in politics here , tensions in the US and so on.
Id never mock someone for deciding that they have to walk away, but it’s not the only solution and also there isn’t a “right method”
This is directed at the thread in general not an individual. The thread has been all over the show so let’s carry it on.
Ah yeah. I’m coming at this as someone who won’t walk away, whatever happens. I just don’t want to create a massive gap in my life that football used to fill. Not at my age. What I object to is the stupid arguments used to criticise people who might walk away. Or to pretend that the issues they object to are somehow trivial.
Qatar will take over the club once Raine group has concluded there is no further scope for gauging the price through using INEOS as a stalking horse. So we will probably hear about it in the next ten days or so. Everything else is just muppets having fun. Happy?
Reality?
I'm referring to all countries namely Russia and China not specifically the middle east here.
I've met too many people who bought Apple products just because it's Apple.
Hey leave cricket out of this!
I didn't care or worry about the owners or what they stood for in life. We had an owner who according to rumours was a perv even though I understood the seriousness of the matter. I can understand every human being is not deep into human welfare thousands of miles away enough to care about sports washing or state ownership.
I would think most football fans just want a good time going to games with mates and enjoying the banter. To the extent that the Glazers stayed on as owners, it would hardly affect my support for the club. Similarly, it would change nothing if Sir Jim or Sheikh Jassim/Qatar purchased the club. The club is just too ingrained in my being. I understand this is not logical and somewhat silly to say there is some element of truth in the saying "Kids, United and Wife" in that order.
Very likely other human beings and posters on this forum are just better and more caring than myself.
I agree, and it’s something that I hope we’ll see made very clear at the club and in the stands.
Football is a huge cultural influence and it can and does drive change and turn the volume way up on some social issues.
The issue I have is with censorship, this is what disappointed me so much about the World Cup in Qatar. If LGBT issues / banners started being censored in OT I’d withdraw my personal support.
This is such a crucial point that’s being lost by many fans after decades of the Glazer ownership model.
Having an owner who isn’t taking your merch money to line their own pockets, but rather literally just pumps your money back into the club (AS IT SHOULD BE!!!) is such a huge difference to the whole dynamic.
You can quite literally actively support the team without benefitting a shithead owner, something that became very hard under the Glazers model.
Why not support Utd and equally voice your support for the causes that you feel Qatar (as a country) needs to improve on?
You have that freedom, so use it. You have that choice, so take it. Or don’t, it’s your call.
But if, for example, you wanted to buy a Utd shirt and then pay to go to a home match, you could do so knowing that all your cash is going into the club - and you could also take a beautiful banner of LGBT / equal rights for women support and make clear to the world how things should be. This is very doable, many will do it (I will do so myself if Jassim wins).
Under Glazer rule, you couldn’t do this - ANY money you gave to merch / attendance was lining their pockets and it became very difficult to actually engage with the club as a consumer without directly benefiting them.
Having an owner who is funnelling all your cash back into the club is a completely different paradigm - even if you dislike the owner.
There's been a few times where this has happened for me, where I've grown disinterested in United (and my emotional state from the constant losses), but I always come back. It's just too strong a connection.
What bothers me most is that by being bought by a sugar daddy (INEOS or Qatar) is that we've lost the battle with City. Mockney said it perfectly, a lot of us have emotional connections with the club and both options feel like the club will be irrevocably changed after this.
It may not be the same for others, but a lot of us love United for that romance element - the history of United is bittersweet and this feels like a gutpunch, we've had to sellout to keep up with City. I feel bitter because it feels like the club is losing a part of its soul, purely to stay relevant. And it doubly hurts as we've had nearly a decade of mismanagement and incompetence, which makes me bitter that City despite all the financial doping are a much better run club
I feel bitter when I think about that, and when Christy Dignam died yesterday I kind of paired that in my mind (I have a habit of pairing music to particular events in my mind, to an almost frustrating degree).
I may grow disinterested in United if we become a trophy factory like City, but like Sultan said it's ingrained in us. United till I die really.
Wow, shots fired.
Mods are people too.
No I'm saying fans who can gladly change club just because of who owns us can also change clubs on success too. Maybe I'm being a top red here but I'll follow United no matter what. Like having kids I guess. Unconditional love. Always find the best in them.
I’ve asked this so many times and they never answer.
It seems there are not many who understand how the right kind of debt is a benefit to companies like Ineos, to the Qataris too as depending how They organise Their tax domicile they’ll be liable for tax in the UK, which can be reduced by debt and loans.
Cancelo was a excellent fullback for any attack minded coach before he arrived at City hence I wanted us to sign him from Valencia.
Guardiola was backed with half a billion in his first two years at City and no coach in the history of the EPL has had that sort of backing. Compare that to Klopp's first two summer windows and the difference is huge. Liverpool and Klopp really took advantage of Barcelona's stupidity when Barca shelled out £140m for Coutinho. And with that money, Liverpool bought Allison and Van Dijk.
Guardiola is utilising a positional playstyle which first came to prominence via the Dutch coach Rinus Michels and then Johan Cruyff. And it was through Cruyff that Guardiola benefited and tweaked the concept. And it's that same idea that will be backed by another club through their owners, which will create problems for Mansour and Guardiola imo. You can't implement that idea with a GK as limited as De Gea.
I can't remember a single poster claiming they would support another team if someone they disapprove of buys United.
Can you quote any?
not sure about @Damien
Most likely because they know they're either talking shite or genuinely don't have a clue.
If you do not want Qatari ownership fine. If you lose interest in the club in case Jassim/9-2 foundation succeed in buying it, it is fine too. However, once you start petty, derisory, holier than though remarks regarding posters who do not want the club to be owned by Ratcliffe, be prepared to take the same on your chin.
Since you know so much detail about the workers and migrant workers, can you provide the any evidence to 6500 people dying?
I understand the working conditions were terrible, no one can say otherwise or justify it.
Can you now explain how Jassim was responsible for the deaths?
Mods life's matter.
Its quite funny to see the Anti Qatar bid in full force.
As a United fan, what were the priorities ?
Glazers out, Clear the debt, stadium improvements?
Jassim, is doing all 3 and SJR is doing none of those 3.
It's not written, but it's the implicit message you gave, maybe unintendedly, but it is.
It's quite easy, some fans don't want a state and modern day pharaohs in charge of their club. The rest is irrelevant.
We all know this is a state bid and this is what they have shown as a state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/11/30/qatar-world-cup-chief-publicly-admits-high-migrant-death-tolls
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/11/30/qatar-world-cup-chief-publicly-admits-high-migrant-death-tolls
Yet.. its not a state bid. PIF own Newcastle, Abu Dabhi own City and QSI own Qatar...
Its stereotyping that any money in the ME is State financed money.
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