Club Sale | It’s done!

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bosnian_red

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That's all good but they've yet to prove that. It's been 4 years of bad signings and mid table finished.

This 7 wins in 11 games this season has completely blinded people from the last 4 years its crazy Jim and his cycling crew must be loving it
It's been 4 years of post COVID where they had some promising seasons but also others where they got managerial appointments wrong after they had a good one poached, giving on average the same level they had before and the same level as what their spend dictates (important that). It's not a steady rise always. It takes time to have a proper impact as an owner, and even then you won't get every call right.

The intention to improve constantly and make changes to implement a modern structure is what matters. Getting it right within 5 years is pretty quick all things considered. This isn't a player or manager who can easily impact things on day 1. And like I said - success is always relative to what your spend is. United spends among the most in world football in transfers and wages. To flop how we do is horrendous. If you spend mid table on wages and transfers and finish mid table... Then yeah that's about as expected?
 

pocco

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I think we will learn that Sir Jim and Ineos have made a masterpiece with this deal.
It's not often we agree on something, but this is one of those times :lol:

I just wish more posters listened to those of us that were talking about what he would likely bring to the table and how much better he operated in the whole bidding process, which painted the picture of somebody with the right credentials to run the club. He was never coming here for the money.

What I will say though is if @Pes6Monster is right and he brings Greenwood back without considering what the supporters want, then that will be a major strike against his name for myself and many others.
 

JPRouve

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It's been 4 years of post COVID where they had some promising seasons but also others where they got managerial appointments wrong after they had a good one poached, giving on average the same level they had before and the same level as what their spend dictates (important that). It's not a steady rise always. It takes time to have a proper impact as an owner, and even then you won't get every call right.

The intention to improve constantly and make changes to implement a modern structure is what matters. Getting it right within 5 years is pretty quick all things considered. This isn't a player or manager who can easily impact things on day 1. And like I said - success is always relative to what your spend is. United spends among the most in world football in transfers and wages. To flop how we do is horrendous. If you spend mid table on wages and transfers and finish mid table... Then yeah that's about as expected?
Since 2019 Nice have the 3rd net spending in France, they have not spent midtable money. In terms of wages, I think that only PSG, Monaco and Marseille have been above them.
 

Matriac

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What I will say though is if @Pes6Monster is right and he brings Greenwood back without considering what the supporters want, then that will be a major strike against his name for myself and many others.
All we know is he was present at the match. I don't imagine he did any interviews, certainly wouldn't speak about anything involved with a job he doesn't have (yet).

For all we know he was there to scout other Getafe or Cadiz players.

I think people are just jumping to conclusions that him being there means we want to bring him back. It could also be to plan for his permanent departure.
 

Rhyme Animal

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What I will say though is if @Pes6Monster is right and he brings Greenwood back without considering what the supporters want, then that will be a major strike against his name for myself and many others.
The majority of Man Utd supporters want Greenwood to return.

‘What the supporters want’ doesn’t just equal what you want.

For what it’s worth, there’s no chance Greenwood returns. I think him and his family are happy in Spain and he’ll simply move to a big Spanish club.
 

Acquire Me

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It's not often we agree on something, but this is one of those times :lol:

I just wish more posters listened to those of us that were talking about what he would likely bring to the table and how much better he operated in the whole bidding process, which painted the picture of somebody with the right credentials to run the club. He was never coming here for the money.

What I will say though is if @Pes6Monster is right and he brings Greenwood back without considering what the supporters want, then that will be a major strike against his name for myself and many others.
Good things :lol:

We also agree about wanting United to win and be successful. That’s good :devil:
 

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All we know is he was present at the match. I don't imagine he did any interviews, certainly wouldn't speak about anything involved with a job he doesn't have (yet).

For all we know he was there to scout other Getafe or Cadiz players.

I think people are just jumping to conclusions that him being there means we want to bring him back. It could also be to plan for his permanent departure.
Who was present at the match?
 

bosnian_red

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Since 2019 Nice have the 3rd net spending in France, they have not spent midtable money. In terms of wages, I think that only PSG, Monaco and Marseille have been above them.
Fair enough! Thought I remembered seeing a graph saying they were roughly in the same tier as the group of teams they were finishing in a similar position to.

Edit: https://www.capology.com/fr/ligue-1/payrolls/

This has them 8th, but 6th to bottom is all very close while there's a slight tier drop after 2nd-5th and 6th.
Previous 2 years they were 5th, before that they were in the 8th place range for wage bills. So yeah my point stands still! 3rd in transfer spend, but mid table in net spend. Not saying they got everything right, but it's not a huge underperformance if you're roughly in line with wage bill. We'll see how they progress, doing well this season though we'll see how their attention swerves if Ratcliffe comes in here. Either way, it's not a roaring failure, but also not quite Brighton level success.
 
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Woziak

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Let’s assume this is true, and let’s assume he will use £500m of his own money and £1.25 billion of INEOS or money borrowed against INEOS. I addd the £245m which is the first stage of his planned investment.

There is no way Sir Jim would guarantee that investment without having a pathway for majority ownership. He may use the investment as part of the deal to generate more shares and increase his stakeholder this way, that’s only logical.

He has two ways to go, he can use INEOS to invest and receive shares for this, this diluting the Glazers ownership. They still currently will own about 51% of the club after the 25% investment, however this might change to more of 40/30/30 split but they still would have control of voting b class shares. He may also have an agreed path to buy enough shares in 2026/27 after this investment has played out and therefore created a new valuation of the club of maybe £7-7.5billion, he would have enough shares possible now a 51% majority with the glazers maybe holding 26% and majority 23% for a further 2-3 years where INEOS buys the remainder and takes the club off the NYSE.

Pros;
He’s 71, might really be United very own Sir Jack Walker who won the PL with Blackburn, people forget that before Abrahmovic there was SJW and a team who now languish 10th in the championship.

He’s currently listed as the UK’s second wealthiest person with an estimated £30 billion, that’s three times what Abrahmovic was worth and 1 and half times Sheikh Mansour.

He’s 71 and this looks like a vanity project which INEOS will benefit from too but time is not on his side so you can rest assured he will want Infrastructure , Training ground, squad improvements and a new stadium completed in the shortest time possible. So trying to have this in place as an elite club challenging again before his 75th Birthday is only logical.

He can cleverly use resources at Nice since he is a minority share holder at United and he can appoint separate boards of control like red bull do with Leipzig and Salzburg. He can afford to let Martial go on free in January, Antony sold for 25% of what we paid and DVB sold for £5-10m. He will want to purge and clear the decks, he’s clearly had Paul Mitchell watching games around Europe and South America to identify which young driven players can instantly improve the squad, I have a feeling he’s so hands on he will listen to the English players like Maguire and Sancho and gave some sympathy for them but not completely.

ETH is under pressure from today and he has no given right to assume that if he carries on with a 53% loss record he will remain in charge beyond December the 1st.

INEOS have set aside £1.6-1.75 billion, the training ground at carington will cost £200m, new infrastructure changes £100m, a stadium refurbishment of old Trafford to 90,000 will be £1 billion leaving very little for new squad investment or more importantly clearing the debt which would help significantly, we need a full interview where Sir Jim outlines everything!

Cons;
The Glazers remain, that in its own right is enough to make the fan base loathe Sir Jim.

His record with other football clubs is diabolical, with the exception of a good start by Nice this year. Two players from Nice Todibo and K Thurham could instantly improve united thus season but why would he and why would the Nice board allow two of their best players to leave when they are more likely to win a domestic title this season and play CL football next season. Can’t see any of these transfers happening, certainly not in January.

The club desperately needs an elite CF like Ivan Toney or Victor Osimhen and in place by January 1st, I just can’t see Sir Jim bankrolling or agreeing to any transfer over £80m?

They also need a mobile young dynamic CB and a mobile/physical 6/8 that’s going to cost at least another £80m . The instant fix for united is sell or remove from the club Martial, Antony, DVB in the winter transfer window. Sell or release these players and that frees up £500k per week in wages and allows you to instantly improve your squad. Sancho is miles better than Antony and although his behaviour is appalling, ETH clearly shows favouritism with players he signed!

There’s still that little about Sir Jim that makes you think you can’t really quite trust him and INEOS, this is a supposed stalwart united fan who also tried to buy Chelsea and Barcelona?
 

Mickeza

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Pledging to spend a further 2bn when he only owns 25% of the club sounds mental to me. Can only assume he will certainly obtain majority ownership at some point in the next few years?
Which is the only thing that makes sense. Otherwise the Glazers would be trying to sell 75% of the club for billions at a later date that hasn’t got control over sporting decisions OR Ratcliffe is spending 1.4bn to get control over sporting decisions which would become void when the Glazers sell 75% - both are moronic.
 

Rams

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I’m relieved we’re seen to be getting some kind of resolution & clarity to what’s going to happen. Having the (still) Glazers & a petrol chemical company involved is not ideal, but it’s was better than the other option and at least Sir Jim should understand the local community and the club’s history
Having Brailsford involved is not to be sniffed at, this guy is a perfectionist and no detail will be left to its coincidence, every stone will be turned. His track record in setting up successful sporting organizations is 2nd to none, so I’m willing to give it a chance.
 

JPRouve

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Fair enough! Thought I remembered seeing a graph saying they were roughly in the same tier as the group of teams they were finishing in a similar position to.

Edit: https://www.capology.com/fr/ligue-1/payrolls/

This has them 8th, but 6th to bottom is all very close while there's a slight tier drop after 2nd-5th and 6th.
Previous 2 years they were 5th, before that they were in the 8th place range for wage bills. So yeah my point stands still! 3rd in transfer spend, but mid table in net spend. Not saying they got everything right, but it's not a huge underperformance if you're roughly in line with wage bill. We'll see how they progress, doing well this season though we'll see how their attention swerves if Ratcliffe comes in here. Either way, it's not a roaring failure, but also not quite Brighton level success.
I completely forgot Lyon.

And yeah to me they have generally been underwhelming because there has been no clear direction and they have spent poorly but they also changed things this year and on paper they brought competent people. As I said multiple times, there is good and bads when it comes to Ineos and Nice, they seemingly learned from their mistakes but it would be dishonest to suggest that they did a good job before 2023 especially when they claimed that they wanted to compete with PSG.
 
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Someone

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I'm too poor to fully comprehend how the investment is going to work, but my understanding is that they'll put money in and get future shares in exchange. The investment should increase the value of the club which means everybody wins. Looks promising.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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I'm too poor to fully comprehend how the investment is going to work, but my understanding is that they'll put money in and get future shares in exchange. The investment should increase the value of the club which means everybody wins. Looks promising.
I’m guessing it’s an owners loan, so he’ll be loaning United at a favorable interest rate. Abramovich financed Chelsea the same way.
 

bosnian_red

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I completely forgot Lyon.

And yeah to me they have generally been underwhelming because there has been no clear direction and they have spent poorly but they also changed things this year and on paper they brought competent people. As I said multiple times, there good and bads when it comes to Ineos and Nice, they seemingly learned from their mistakes but it would be dishonest to suggest that they did a good job before 2023 especially when they claimed that they wanted to compete with PSG.
Yep that's fair. Like I said, I don't expect owners to make every decision right, especially if they are relatively new to the level. You try to implement new structures, sometimes you make good or bad managerial appointments... no structure is immune from that. The intention to quickly improve/fix these mistakes and make better decisions the next time are a positive, compared to what we have. I'd expect them to be more "normal" owners for United. Which tbf is all we need to be a top club, given the money we bring in. Having idiot or malicious or totally absent owners is what leads to where we are now. And at the cost it takes to acquire United... I'd be ok with anything that isn't in the "complete idiot" owner bucket or the "state owned club/political toy" bucket.
 

fallengt

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That's all good but they've yet to prove that. It's been 4 years of bad signings and mid table finished.

This 7 wins in 11 games this season has completely blinded people from the last 4 years its crazy Jim and his cycling crew must be loving it
no more crazy than thinking United is still a top team,mate
everyone says "WE SHOULD BE LIKE BRIGHTON xD xD" but never bother enough to care how did they get there, what they went through, and our supporters are more than happy to back out at the first sight of trouble.
 

19Dan81

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I’m relieved we’re seen to be getting some kind of resolution & clarity to what’s going to happen. Having the (still) Glazers & a petrol chemical company involved is not ideal, but it’s was better than the other option and at least Sir Jim should understand the local community and the club’s history
Having Brailsford involved is not to be sniffed at, this guy is a perfectionist and no detail will be left to its coincidence, every stone will be turned. His track record in setting up successful sporting organizations is 2nd to none, so I’m willing to give it a chance.
Would rather not have Teflon Dave having anything to do with this football club. The guy has employed two doctors who are serving bans for doping and organised a running event in which 4 of his runners are now banned for doping. He has avoided all scrutiny in his involvements, sold everyone else up a river and through great PR earned himself a knighthood. He rises to the top in every storm he creates. "Marginal Gains" no thanks. Overseeing the complete failure and demise of the INEOS cycling team from the pinnacle in the sport to being 4th best and without a rider in the top 10 despite having the biggest budget. I don't want Teflon Dave anywhere near this club.
 

JPRouve

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It's actually funny.

Then proceeds not to call anyone out himself.
It's more pathetic than funny, a grown ass man with no backbone. It's even worse if he is actually talking about me since in this thread I have said on several occasions that PSG haven't been well run since around 2016 and aren't well run today.
 

Rojofiam

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It's more pathetic than funny, a grown ass man with no backbone. It's even worse if he is actually talking about me since in this thread I have said on several occasions that PSG haven't been well run since around 2016 and aren't well run today.
I meant Castia, thought it was obvious.

Don't argue, guys...
 

Footyislife

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There is no morality in football anymore. Oil money runs it. Blatantly.

Your choice is be sad and mediocre trying to compete against wealth, or accept that football has been reduced to this, get oil money and be happy as United returns to it's old glory backed by competent, rich owners

If you don't like it drive a referendum for 50+1 ownership like Germany. Otherwise get off the high horse. It's not our money, just our happiness. And the reality is Glazers and Jim are just too poor to give us happiness. If the government, UEFA, EPL, FIFA don't care about the corruption and oil money eroding football, why should we?
 

gaffs

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Not seen anything, but yes - it's the same thing there: very hard to see how one and the same "entity" isn't an "influential" owner of both City and Girona.

ETA But then again, UEFA allowed both Leipzig and Salzburg in the CL (the Red Bull thing). They (Red Bull) shuffled upper management staff around a bit, removed people in certain positions, etc. And so - apparently - the "influential" aspect was...okay.

Feck knows. Bottom line: UEFA are obviously just as corrupt as you'd expect, so it's probably not a problem for either City/Girona or United/Nice.

This can't be an unknown factor for Jim/INEOS at any rate - they're obviously aware of it, and seemingly not very worried about it.
If Red Bull can do it, im sure INEOS can follow the same model.
 

gaffs

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There is no morality in football anymore. Oil money runs it. Blatantly.

Your choice is be sad and mediocre trying to compete against wealth, or accept that football has been reduced to this, get oil money and be happy as United returns to it's old glory backed by competent, rich owners

If you don't like it drive a referendum for 50+1 ownership like Germany. Otherwise get off the high horse. It's not our money, just our happiness. And the reality is Glazers and Jim are just too poor to give us happiness. If the government, UEFA, EPL, FIFA don't care about the corruption and oil money eroding football, why should we?
As has been said a million times, you dont need oil money to win. We have spent at much as City but have wasted the majority of it by employing muppets.
 

Buster15

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There is nothing sincere about your apologies, so you may as well keep them.
Don't know where that came from. In that case I withdraw my sincere apology and recommend that you acquire a sense of humour. Life is too short to be so miserable.
 

Amarsdd

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There is no morality in football anymore. Oil money runs it. Blatantly.

Your choice is be sad and mediocre trying to compete against wealth, or accept that football has been reduced to this, get oil money and be happy as United returns to it's old glory backed by competent, rich owners

If you don't like it drive a referendum for 50+1 ownership like Germany. Otherwise get off the high horse. It's not our money, just our happiness. And the reality is Glazers and Jim are just too poor to give us happiness. If the government, UEFA, EPL, FIFA don't care about the corruption and oil money eroding football, why should we?
Quite a turn from your first two paragraphs to the last one...
 

JPRouve

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Don't know where that came from. In that case I withdraw my sincere apology and recommend that you acquire a sense of humour. Life is too short to be so miserable.
I see it was a joke and not a call out.
 

19Dan81

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So. Joel Glazer has taken two separate personal credit lines out against a combined 57% of his Utd shares in 2021 and 2022 - which essentially means he's maxed out his credit pledged against his ownership in Utd. This means he can't use his shares to borrow any more as the value in his stock as collateral needs room in case of a decline in stock share price. Very interesting information since it can give us some clues as to what they're ultimately up to with this strategic alternative. Hard to see a reason for him wanting to agree to a 25% dilution unless it's to consolidate personal debts? Why not then sell for 8-10 times market value in a full sale?

In any case, 57% of his shares is essentially collateral personal debt. No wonder they walk their dogs around in prams.
 
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