De Gea may have slightly better Agility than Hendo but De Gea's flaws are far more likely to cost you games and restrict your ability to play a higher line. Hendo is very, very commanding of his area where as De Gea has always, always sought some kind of safety by staying on his line, even in 1v1's. It's quite baffling that he thinks giving the opponent more of the goal to shoot at is a good idea. There's a reason why Hendo was keeping De Gea out of the team, because he was making mistakes like this routinely but also I he's always going to have these flaws in his game, which no other top goal keeper has.
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When you look at it from the angle of him being claimed by a large section of our fan base, as being a 'World class goalkeeper', and with some fans even claiming him to be 'Up there with the best in the World', it makes that display all the more shocking.
Every single one of Villarreal's outfield players AND their goalkeeper scored their spot-kick. The whole 11 scored.
De Gea then missed his spot-kick to hand Villarreal the trophy.
If it didn't actually happen, then no-one would have ever believed it.
It was utterly ridiculous.
Can anyone who thinks De Gea is a good enough goalkeeper for a CL team please look at these stats and explain why he is so so poor compared to all his peers on almost every metric?
For comparison:
Allison
Ederson
Mendy
Lloris
Ramsdale
It’s actually hilarious how the one and only stat that could be used to stick up for him is penalty saving, when we’ve all seen that it’s one of the weakest elements of his game. Peaking with the Europa League final fiasco.
@sullydnl
For comparison:
Allison
Ederson
Mendy
Lloris
Ramsdale
It’s actually hilarious how the one and only stat that could be used to stick up for him is penalty saving, when we’ve all seen that it’s one of the weakest elements of his game. Peaking with the Europa League final fiasco.
@sullydnl
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Another page on the same site that makes it easier to compare keepers.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/keepersadv/players/Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats
That’s a bit confusing tbh. De Gea’s stats are much worse than Mendy’s overall (Mendy save % is 99th centile, DDG is 42nd) but he seems to be ranked higher in that table. Can only assume that’s down to him being weirdly highly ranked for penalties because of his save against West Ham.
The individual page is for the last 365 days whilst the table is for this season.
The default ranking is just alphabetical order, you have to sort them by table headers.
The biggest issue with De Gea is he didn't fill confidence to defender. As a defender you have to win every header, and have to win every through ball because De Gea will not going to help you.
I know he is good this season and our defenders are not faultless, but so many time in games I thought why De Gea not covering this through ball? why he is not coming out of his line?
Bottom line is either we should give DH another chance or buy new keeper, because De Gea is not going to change his style now.
I know he is good this season and our defenders are not faultless, but so many time in games I thought why De Gea not covering this through ball? why he is not coming out of his line?
Bottom line is either we should give DH another chance or buy new keeper, because De Gea is not going to change his style now.
Seems he's reverted back to being Dodgy Dave rather than Dave the save.
People are quick to point to Chelsea swapping Lampard for Tuchel without mercy, but what's forgotten is they also ditched Kepa without mercy too.
If the club's ever getting back to the top level then inconsistent "star players" like De Gea, Martial and Pogba need to be replaced asap.
People are quick to point to Chelsea swapping Lampard for Tuchel without mercy, but what's forgotten is they also ditched Kepa without mercy too.
If the club's ever getting back to the top level then inconsistent "star players" like De Gea, Martial and Pogba need to be replaced asap.
The worst thing about it for me is the club must be getting even more detailed stats than these and nobody there is taking accountability to tell De Gea to up his game.
Being our goalkeeping coach must consist of telling DDG how great he is and drinking litres of tea everyday.
Ah. Ok. That’s way too much faff on a phone!
The good thing about the individual stats is that they have a comparison with peers baked in.
Not that hard really to be honest, seems fine on my phone. Just choose a column, click it, it sorts them. So you can see that De Gea is ranked 20th in Europe on shot stopping, but 98th on sweeping.
I'm sorry but if he's not good in the air, good on the ball, good at one on ones and moves away from the ball, how exactly has he been the PL GK of the Year 5 times in 10 years? Look at his one on one save against Armstrong this season, he saved a point for us in that very moment. You can disagree with the assessment of his current performances, but it is pure revisionism that this league's best keeper in the last decade is awful in almost every aspect of the game.
Again, there is this tendency to blame the style of play on De Gea. How can you say that the only reason we play deeper is because of De Gea? Becuase if that were the case, we would've seen a period where we tried this and failed. In my opinion, the reason we play deep is because we have a cowardly manager who has no style of play. It isn't De Gea who has decided that every goalkick would be a 1 yard pass to Maguire. Our game plan involves passing the ball from Maguire to Lindelof to Wan Bissaka to McTominay to Fred. None of our midfielders have the ability to play between the lines or beat the press through dribbling. The gap between our attack and midfield is too high and our manager is clueless and cannot fix it. Hence, he relies on everyone sitting deep because that is the safest option where our lack of quality on the ball is the least exposed. If I have to assign blame on why we sit too deep, my reasons starting with the most prominent would be:
1) Fred and McTominay's lack of quality on the ball
2) Clueless manager who cannot work around these weaknesses
3) Lack of pace from Maguire and Lindelof
4) Lack of ability to beat the press by any of our back 6. Shaw was the one but he's been woeful this season.
De Gea fanboys should try to answer this one question: Why does "world class" Dave sit on the bench for his national team? It's a couple of years now, so it's not a one-off thing.
I have been saying this for the longest time now. No one is denying the fact that DDG pulls of some amazing saves. I will even forgive him for not coming for crosses during corners as he might not be strong enough but not coming for through balls is just not right.
Even yesterday, Zapata makes contact with the ball in the 6 yard box after running from way outside the box. The top picture shows where DDG and Zapata are when the ball is played and the bottom picture shows where Zapata actually makes contact. Its literally in the six yard box after having run about 30 mts. DDG did something similar against Liverpool as well when Salah got onto a ball after beating Shaw but luckily at that time DDG made the save.
To be fair to De Gea, the ball was nearer to Zabata than him and if De Gea rushed forward, he might cause a penalty.
Yesterday was nothing new and not a one-off
His weaknesses in a nutshell
His weaknesses in a nutshell
He's gotta do something however. He's basically just saying have a free shot
The individual stats give you that comparison anyway. He’s 42nd centile on save %. 9th centile on crosses stopped and the same on “defensive actions outside the box”. So 58% of keepers are better than him at shot stopping and 91% of them are better at being a sweeper keeper. These are all stats over the last 365 days. So a decent data set.
So basically we can both agree on one thing. He’s been nowhere near good enough for a CL club for at least the last 12 months (probably longer).
He's no longer world class but is capable of world class saves which like other things sums up this dysfunctional United team.
This images make it more laughable. its clearly show that rather than go out and collect the ball, De Gea revert back to goal line for unknown reason.I have been saying this for the longest time now. No one is denying the fact that DDG pulls of some amazing saves. I will even forgive him for not coming for crosses during corners as he might not be strong enough but not coming for through balls is just not right.
Even yesterday, Zapata makes contact with the ball in the 6 yard box after running from way outside the box. The top picture shows where DDG and Zapata are when the ball is played and the bottom picture shows where Zapata actually makes contact. Its literally in the six yard box after having run about 30 mts. DDG did something similar against Liverpool as well when Salah got onto a ball after beating Shaw but luckily at that time DDG made the save.
What the feck was he thinking.
He did the exact same thing against Liverpool and Sala did score. Think it was the 4th goal. Salah’s second touch was too heavy. 9 out of 10 keepers would have dived at his feet to win the ball. Not Dave though. He actually moved backwards. When Salah chipped him he was actually inside the six yard box. Piss poor goalkeeping.I have been saying this for the longest time now. No one is denying the fact that DDG pulls of some amazing saves. I will even forgive him for not coming for crosses during corners as he might not be strong enough but not coming for through balls is just not right.
Even yesterday, Zapata makes contact with the ball in the 6 yard box after running from way outside the box. The top picture shows where DDG and Zapata are when the ball is played and the bottom picture shows where Zapata actually makes contact. Its literally in the six yard box after having run about 30 mts. DDG did something similar against Liverpool as well when Salah got onto a ball after beating Shaw but luckily at that time DDG made the save.
I think De Gea wont go rushing into lot of 1 on 1 situations on purpose. He likes to stand his ground and is waiting for a mistake from the shooter.
During his best years with us he did it really well and saved lot of 1 on 1s with that strategy. At the moment it is not working very well as he sticks too close to the line.
I want to see more. He will never be the best sweeper keeper, but I wouldn’t write him totally off just yet. People said year ago that his reactions are gone and his shot stopping is declining - it actually wasn’t the case.
During his best years with us he did it really well and saved lot of 1 on 1s with that strategy. At the moment it is not working very well as he sticks too close to the line.
I want to see more. He will never be the best sweeper keeper, but I wouldn’t write him totally off just yet. People said year ago that his reactions are gone and his shot stopping is declining - it actually wasn’t the case.
as
De Gea has a £117m six year contract ….think about that next time they look at their pay slip.
As per stats posted above, 58% of keepers have a higher save % than him over the last 12 months. If his shot stopping isn’t declining then it’s always been below average. Which makes is so crazy that we accept all his other flaws because he’s allegedly “a great shot stopper”
I have been De Gea's biggest critic but this year he has been fantastic so far. I'm expecting yesterday to just be a blip. Mind you, the first goal doesn't bug me nearly as much as the second. Sure, he should have saved that, and 99 times out of 100 he does. He made a mistake. It happens. But the second goal was the worrying one for me. Not because he didn't save it. Because there shouldn't have been a save to make. He should be out of his goal well before the attacker gets a shot off, not standing on his goal line hoping the ball hits him. Again, he's been great this year and I hope that was just an off day so he gets a pass for now...
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Basically there's no way of twisting it whereby the limitations in De Gea's game aren't a big problem. You can rightly say he has been very good this season in terms of shot-stopping and certainly better than last year but in the long term we need an upgrade.
What I'm less convinced on is whether Henderson is that upgrade, whether you'd even want to make a goalkeeper change and throw Henderson in when we're under so much pressure atm and whether we have few enough other weaknesses to resolve in coming transfer windows that replacing our goalkeeper will be an immediate priority.
But if you're a De Gea fan (as I am) the best you can hope for is that he has a decent enough season that when he leaves it won't be under the cloud of vitriol that followed the UEFA Cup final loss. Because he does need to be upgraded.
It is not.
I'll tell you what. Go play in goal for any team for a few matches, stay on your line all the time, don't come for crosses or sweep behind, don't talk or organise, just wait there to make saves and see how badly it affects the rest of your team.
I'm going to post this video to anyone who doesn't think he's a problem.
You're totally overlooking the fact that alot of these 1 v 1 chances wouldn't even be 1 v 1's if De Gea had the ability to sense danger, be alert and sweep up/ get to the ball first. Watch a Man Utd match and you will see multiple occasions where a through pass that would be easily swept up by even bang average goalkeepers, ends up in a 1v1 against us because De Gea backtracks to his line. The problem is compounded by the fact that, in my opinion, he's not that great at 1v1s anyway compared to most keepers because he just doesn't have that intimidation factor compared to most keepers.
Last night was just another example of this, but it's happening every single game he plays and its a huge ongoing problem.
It also makes it pretty much impossible for us to play a high defensive line without running the risk of a simple ball in behind catching us out.
I agree that a lack of pace from Maguire and Lindelof makes this issue even worse and its laughable that our coaches aren't noticing this but surely it's not that much to ask that De Gea, as one of the more experienced players, could take the initiative himself and simply be more proactive and alert to balls in behind.
For a supposedly 'top' team to not be able to push up the pitch and play a higher defensive line is a serious disadvantage.
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I thought this was an album cover.
Still the best keeper at the club by a country mile. The cult owe him big time.
Best keeper in the last decade my hole.
This is honestly the first rational, well-thought out post in this thread since the game last night. Hopefully, he gets it back together and reverts to form. The thought of bringing in Henderson doesn't inspire much confidence.
On what basis is his shot-stopping “very good” this season? How does it compare with the keepers at Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal etc
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Basically there's no way of twisting it whereby the limitations in De Gea's game aren't a big problem. You can rightly say he has been very good this season in terms of shot-stopping and certainly better than last year but in the long term we need an upgrade.
What I'm less convinced on is whether Henderson is that upgrade, whether you'd even want to make a goalkeeper change and throw Henderson in when we're under so much pressure atm and whether we have few enough other weaknesses to resolve in coming transfer windows that replacing our goalkeeper will be an immediate priority.
But if you're a De Gea fan (as I am) the best you can hope for is that he has a decent enough season that when he leaves it won't be under the cloud of vitriol that followed the UEFA Cup final loss. Because he does need to be upgraded.
The only save % stats I saw were for previous 365 days on fbref and his shot-stopping was 42nd centile (i.e. below average)
I wonder if we have any other player in our squad with stats that poor in comparison to players at rival clubs?.
EDIT: Never mind rival clubs. So poor he’s even comparing badly with “average” players in the same position.
PSxG is expected goals based on how likely the goalkeeper is to save the actual shots he's faced. PSxG+/- is that minus goals he's conceded. This season thus far De Gea is fourth best in the league in that regard at +0.13 per 90min, or 83rd percentile. Still not at the level he was at in 17/18 say (+0.23 per 90min or 94th percentile) but good.
It's most everything else that's the problem.
He costs too many goals. He has some great saves in him, but he is too timid. He is non existent at corners, I'm not surprised that we concede so many at set pieces. He was absolutely atrocious for that second goal.
I'm sure his thinking is "don't react, set yourself" and it work for him a fair amount but if you're allowing a striker to walk into your six yard box to have a shot then you don't get to react.
Our PSxG. Gotta laugh.
PSxG is expected goals based on how likely the goalkeeper is to save the actual shots he's faced. PSxG+/- is that minus goals he's conceded. This season thus far De Gea is fourth best in the league in that regard at +0.13 per 90min, or 83rd percentile. Still not at the level he was at in 17/18 say (+0.23 per 90min or 94th percentile) but good.
It's most everything else that's the problem.
When Zapata went through I knew it would be a goal because DDG doesn’t ever look big in goal. He’s timid and resorts to using his feet. He basically just sat down for the goal and said here you go mate
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