[::sonny::]

In addition:

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In terms of bad goalkeeping performances, he put in a very well rounded display yesterday, even struggling with things he's normally good at.

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[Born2Lose]

I'm very sure he can see the issue. But it's difficult to address when you have so many other problem positions. We could equally point to midfield, right-back, CF and RW as areas that still needed signings too. Even then we've seen reports that he is looking goalkeeper to compete with Dave but that just adds to the list of wants that haven't been got.

People are bumping the Henderson thread for example, but Henderson made it clear that he was out the door before ETH even landed. Not much he could do about that.

Could Heaton actually be any worse at this point. If he goes with De Gea against Liverpool and he cacks himself again there'll be some serious questions about EtH for me.

 

[AjaxCunian]

I'm very sure he can see the issue. But it's difficult to address when you have so many other problem positions. We could equally point to midfield, right-back, CF and RW as areas that still needed signings too. Even then we've seen reports that he is looking goalkeeper to compete with Dave but that just adds to the list of wants that haven't been got.

People are bumping the Henderson thread for example, but Henderson made it clear that he was out the door before ETH even landed. Not much he could do about that.

Fair enough, but I think about anything is better than de Gea. He is truly awful, I'd fancy Heaton over him.

 

[sullydnl]

Fair enough, but I think about anything is better than de Gea. He is truly awful, I'd fancy Heaton over him.

That's easy to say now given the bomb scare start to the season De Gea has had, but the reality is that his shot-stopping was very good last season and he was viewed by his teammates at least as the best performing player in the squad. I don't think you can blame ETH for initially assessing the squad in that context and thinking that of all our many flaws De Gea is one he might scrape by with for a season.

 

[Adamsk7]

The sooner we stop acting like any one player is the problem and start collectively turning all of our attention to the Glazers the better.

De Gea had a bad game. He was our best player last year and he also was the only one that faced the music for yesterdays performance. We have much bigger fish to fry.

 

[Jazz]

Eric is gonna have to drop him very soon. Do what Sir Alex did when DeGEa just arrived here and take him out of the line of fire. Of course you need to totally replace him, but to not shatter him completely from a mental point of view, just tell him you're giving him a break from all the toxicity or something to that effect.,

 

[JB7]

That's easy to say now given the bomb scare start to the season De Gea has had, but the reality is that his shot-stopping was very good last season and he was viewed by his teammates at least as the best performing player in the squad. I don't think you can blame ETH for initially assessing the squad in that context and thinking that of all our many flaws De Gea is one he might scrape by with for a season.

In the first half of the season. Second half of the season it wasn’t.

 

[AjaxCunian]

That's easy to say now given the bomb scare start to the season De Gea has had, but the reality is that his shot-stopping was very good last season and he was viewed by his teammates at least as the best performing player in the squad. I don't think you can blame ETH for initially assessing the squad in that context and thinking that of all our many flaws De Gea is one he might scrape by with for a season.

He was horrible as well last season by most metrics, which he has been for a long time. The fact that his teammates are stupid enough or happy by him "saving them" doesn't change anything.

There is a reason why he, as highest paid goalkeeper in the world doesnt get any call-ups from his nation. He's an average and probably below-average keeper that is terrible at most aspects of the game.

And this has been well-known for a very long time.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

The sooner we stop acting like any one player is the problem and start collectively turning all of our attention to the Glazers the better.

De Gea had a bad game. He was our best player last year and he also was the only one that faced the music for yesterdays performance. We have much bigger fish to fry.

Keep burying your head in the sand fella.

 

[sullydnl]

In the first half of the season. Second half of the season it wasn’t.

Sure. But peaks and troughs across a full season are relatively normal for goalkeepers in that regard. It's not like having a period where his shot-stopping form dipped again was particularly alarming, especially when the team as a whole had packed it in by the end. The net improvement on previous seasons was still there.

 

[MadDogg]

Sure. But peaks and troughs across a full season are relatively normal for goalkeepers in that regard. It's not like having a period where his shot-stopping form dipped again was particularly alarming, especially when the team as a whole had packed it in by the end. The net improvement on previous seasons was still there.

Except the fact that that half a season is literally the only time in the last four seasons that he hasn't been a huge weakness does make it particularly alarming. It indicates that that good period was the exception to what is now the norm.

 

[JB7]

Sure. But peaks and troughs across a full season are relatively normal for goalkeepers in that regard. It's not like having a period where his shot-stopping form dipped again was particularly alarming, especially when the team as a whole had packed it in by the end. The net improvement on previous seasons was still there.

The point I was making was that the concerns aren’t on the back of 2 games. His shot stopping, which is his only redeeming quality given he was the worst goalkeeper in the league last season based on the other available metrics relating to crosses & sweeping, wasn’t especially good for the last 4 months of last season, IIRC those months he was actually around -3 on the PSxG metrics which is very poor. It certainly wasn’t good during pre season. And it’s been abysmal in the first 2 games of the season, with no noticeable improvements in the other areas of his game.

 

[Alemar]

Could we purchase Nick Pope? He is the best on claiming crosses in the league, would be a big upgrade

 

[Born2Lose]

Could we purchase Nick Pope? He is the best on claiming crosses in the league, would be a big upgrade

He's gone to Newcastle.

 

[The_Midfielder]

I think a good portion of us got talked down when we said the keeper was one of the biggest issues at the club over the summer. I still remember people saying we had far bigger priorities but I couldn’t disagree more. He’s a terrible keeper and I don’t think there’s a collection of defenders and midfielders around who can cover his deficiencies. We don’t have crap CBs, they just get absolutely zero communication and protection, which is vital. Look at how much better pool got when they signed Allison, or City with Ederson, or Chelsea with Mendy. The proof is in the pudding. Disgrace that we aren’t addressing this role with a better player. An even bigger disgrace that we let a better keeper leave the club in frustration because he was being benched by a relic.

Whatever you say.. Even Ramsdale

 

[NLunited]

Another goalkeeper having a mare.

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[Suedesi]

You must be one of those wanting DDG as captain?

Excuse me?

 

[Suedesi]

Still should be gone but won't be due to those two clowns who thought he should get £375k a week

Yeah, I feel deja vu having this convo. I was against his renewal back on 2018, but here we go

 

[::sonny::]

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[sebsheep]

I have this idea that De Gea, Dalot, Shaw, Rashford, Sancho are magnificent in training.

But maybe that's all there is to them in asmuch as I think they are far better than showing. After a while, you can't keep on hoping.

Yeah, but in training they'll be playing against other United players.

 

[lsd]

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Award for the most meaningless stat goes to?

Comparing two keepers playing in different teams against different opponents is completely pointless.

May as well compare De Gea to Liz Truss

 

[el3mel]

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We tried the Henderson experiment for several games last seasons. It didn't work, and don't tell me our fans will be that patient letting Henderson make a lot of mistakes at the start waiting for him to learn or improve, when the entire team is shit.

 

[JB7]

We tried the Henderson experiment for several games last seasons. It didn't work, and don't tell me our fans will be that patient letting Henderson make a lot of mistakes at the start waiting for him to learn or improve, when the entire team is shit.

It worked a hell of a lot better than any period with De Gea in goal over the past 4 years. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

 

[el3mel]

It worked a hell of a lot better than any period with De Gea in goal over the past 4 years. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

He was still not good enough, and actually De Gea didn't have that much of a bad season last year.

I don't get the obsession some have with Henderson all honestly. Not a bad keeper but he's really overrated.

 

[Longshanks]

We tried the Henderson experiment for several games last seasons. It didn't work, and don't tell me our fans will be that patient letting Henderson make a lot of mistakes at the start waiting for him to learn or improve, when the entire team is shit.

Other than having a higher win rate conceding less goals on average, defending with a higher line and on the whole looking a much better more organised and capable side, your right it didn't work.

 

[JB7]

He was still not good enough, and actually De Gea didn't have that much of a bad season last year.

I don't get the obsession some have with Henderson all honestly. Not a bad keeper but he's really overrated.

No one is overrating him. The general consensus is that he's pretty average, maybe with the potential to improve but I don't see many people on here saying he'll be the long term number one. The issue is that "average" is more than good enough to displace De Gea due to the glaring deficiencies in his game.

The record with Henderson in the team spoke for itself, it coincided with us conceding less goals than any other period in 4 or 5 years and genuinely starting to look like a team clicking into place with a defence that were confident that their goalkeeper would help them out both in and out of possession. There were hiccups of course, but overall we were much better during that spell of games. In addition his individual metrics all substantially beat De Gea's as well.

Also "obsession" is the wrong word, I think "frustration" is the word. Frustrated that the club can't appear to see what staring them in the face and continue to proceed with a goalkeeper that costs the team week after week with his lack of willingness to leave his line in any situation putting the defenders under ridiculous amounts of pressure every time a ball comes over their heads or is crossed into the box.

 

[Longshanks]

No one is overrating him. The general consensus is that he's pretty average, maybe with the potential to improve but I don't see many people on here saying he'll be the long term number one. The issue is that "average" is more than good enough to displace De Gea due to the glaring deficiencies in his game.

The record with Henderson in the team spoke for itself, it coincided with us conceding less goals than any other period in 4 or 5 years and genuinely starting to look like a team clicking into place with a defence that were confident that their goalkeeper would help them out both in and out of possession. There were hiccups of course, but overall we were much better during that spell of games. In addition his individual metrics all substantially beat De Gea's as well.

Also "obsession" is the wrong word, I think "frustration" is the word. Frustrated that the club can't appear to see what staring them in the face and continue to proceed with a goalkeeper that costs the team week after week with his lack of willingness to leave his line in any situation putting the defenders under ridiculous amounts of pressure every time a ball comes over their heads or is crossed into the box.

Frustrated, definitely frustrated.

 

[el3mel]

Other than having a higher win rate conceding less goals on average, defending with a higher line and on the whole looking a much better more organised and capable side, your right it didn't work.

You realize these stats don't involve the goalkeeper only, right ? And when did we ever defend with a high line under Ole ?

 

[el3mel]

No one is overrating him. The general consensus is that he's pretty average, maybe with the potential to improve but I don't see many people on here saying he'll be the long term number one. The issue is that "average" is more than good enough to displace De Gea due to the glaring deficiencies in his game.

The record with Henderson in the team spoke for itself, it coincided with us conceding less goals than any other period in 4 or 5 years and genuinely starting to look like a team clicking into place with a defence that were confident that their goalkeeper would help them out both in and out of possession. There were hiccups of course, but overall we were much better during that spell of games. In addition his individual metrics all substantially beat De Gea's as well.

Also "obsession" is the wrong word, I think "frustration" is the word. Frustrated that the club can't appear to see what staring them in the face and continue to proceed with a goalkeeper that costs the team week after week with his lack of willingness to leave his line in any situation putting the defenders under ridiculous amounts of pressure every time a ball comes over their heads or is crossed into the box.

Actually some here did think that. You might not be one of them but alot here are obsessed with the idea of Henderson becoming our next main GK, and I see no basis for that.

Nothing against him though, as I said he's not a bad keeper, but he's not as good as people seem to think he's and I have no doubt if he becomes our main GK and started to make mistakes no one will have that much patience for him and no one will be saying "let's wait for him to learn and improve" especially when the rest of the team is shit.

 

[city-puma]

I really feel sorry for him, a great servant to the club. Just watch his interview. Everyone will feel the same.
Will Heaton start the next game? I think we should. But what’s the next? No idea.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

He was still not good enough, and actually De Gea didn't have that much of a bad season last year.

I don't get the obsession some have with Henderson all honestly. Not a bad keeper but he's really overrated.

I don't think anyone here who is advocating for Henderson over De Gea thinks Henderson is top class or anything. But he doesn't have to be top class to be a better option for us than De Gea.

That's the reason people talk about him a lot. It's because we literally have a better keeper on the books but we pissed him off and loaned him out.

 

[JB7]

Actually some here did think that. You might not be one of them but alot here are obsessed with the idea of Henderson becoming our next main GK, and I see no basis for that.

Nothing against him though, as I said he's not a bad keeper, but he's not as good as people seem to think he's and I have no doubt if he becomes our main GK and started to make mistakes no one will have that much patience for him and no one will be saying "let's wait for him to learn and improve" especially when the rest of the team is shit.

Maybe not on here because people seem to have made their minds up on him but I'd think generally speaking the matchgoers would give him time if we saw a progression in the team with him in goal - which in fairness was exactly what people should have been seeing during his run in the team in 2020/21, during which he did make mistakes, but he also did a lot of simple things that De Gea just doesn't do which was why the defenders looked more at ease in front of him leading to the overall records improving - both in terms of the team statistics and the personal statistics.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Probably got Ole sacked by being shite in most of Oles important games. A trophy could’ve given Ole more time.

Will he get another manager sacked? Hag should’ve dropped De Gea and changed the captain. Took the easy route with both.

 

[el3mel]

Maybe not on here because people seem to have made their minds up on him but I'd think generally speaking the matchgoers would give him time if we saw a progression in the team with him in goal - which in fairness was exactly what people should have been seeing during his run in the team in 2020/21, during which he did make mistakes, but he also did a lot of simple things that De Gea just doesn't do which was why the defenders looked more at ease in front of him leading to the overall records improving - both in terms of the team statistics and the personal statistics.

I was checking the stats, and I honestly don't think our defense was that bad before he started playing :

https://www.transfermarkt.com/dean-.../258919/saison/2020/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/985

Bar that Everton game which ended 3-3, our goals conceded stats look to be what you would expect in that run before he got the starting position.

 

[Longshanks]

You realize these stats don't involve the goalkeeper only, right ? And when did we ever defend with a high line under Ole ?

So it was just a coincidence that those stats were considerably better than what happened before and after with de gea in nets with basically the same players and manager against the same teams in the same league and cups?

Second highest average defensive line just behind city with Henderson in nets at the back end of 20/21.

Second deepest with de gea in nets.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I really feel sorry for him, a great servant to the club. Just watch his interview. Everyone will feel the same.
Will Heaton start the next game? I think we should. But what’s the next? No idea.

My sympathy for him is limited because he's been here 10 years and in that time doesn't seem to have worked on any of the obvious weaknesses in his game which have cost us again and again over the years. At his best, he is utterly brilliant at the bit of goalkeeping which makes good keepers great, but that seems to have convinced him he doesn't need to work at all the bits which make a good keeper in the first place.

 

[el3mel]

So it was just a coincidence that those stats were considerably better than what happened before and after with de gea in nets with basically the same players and manager against the same teams in the same league and cups?

Second highest average defensive line just behind city with Henderson in nets at the back end of 20/21.

Second deepest with de gea in nets.

I posted the stats above, and honestly don't see that big of a difference before and during his spell as a starter. Not to mention, it's a small number of games, 8 straight ones in which we only faced 2 big teams. De Gea got clean sheets against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and City in this season too. This comparison is skewed imo.

 

[city-puma]

My sympathy for him is limited because he's been here 10 years and in that time doesn't seem to have worked on any of the obvious weaknesses in his game which have cost us again and again over the years. At his best, he is utterly brilliant at the bit of goalkeeping which makes good keepers great, but that seems to have convinced him he doesn't need to work at all the bits which make a good keeper in the first place.

I prefer blaming those giving him mega contract renewal rather than finding a young promising replacement. The managers one by one had no other choice.
The issue about not improved is probably too harsh. What he’s good or bad at was hard to change when he was getting older each year. The game has evolved so much. As I said in another post, everything has an end.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I prefer blaming those giving him mega contract renewal rather than finding a young promising replacement. The managers one by one had no other choice.
The issue about not improved is probably too harsh. What he’s good or bad at was hard to change when he was getting older each year. The game has evolved so much. As I said in another post, everything has an end.

Yeah the bolded is totally fair.

I think with the lack of improvement, some of it is really undeniable. I'm not expecting him to grow a couple of inches or become a great passer, but after 10 years in the league he shouldn't still be scared to challenge a striker for a high ball, and he shouldn't be sitting in the middle of his 6 yard area hiding from the ball when his defenders are under pressure and desperately searching for a pass. That stuff is absolutely on him.

 

[JB7]

I was checking the stats, and I honestly don't think our defense was that bad before he started playing :

https://www.transfermarkt.com/dean-.../258919/saison/2020/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/985

Bar that Everton game which ended 3-3, our goals conceded stats look to be what you would expect in that run before he got the starting position.

Until you look deeper into that run of games. At Chelsea we defended deep which is what suits De Gea's game best because the it means the defenders are better placed for crosses and there simply aren't the balls in behind to deal with, allowing him to focus on the one thing he's good at (which I don't seem to remember he had to do a lot of being it was a dreadful game). De Gea was at fault for two goals in the Everton game, should have collected the crosses West Brom and Newcastle scored from, was in no mans land from a corner for Sheffield United's first goal, etc. He had been in abysmal form leading up to his spell out of the team.

I'm not sure why you've only looked at Premier League games but contrast the 8 games on the bounce Henderson played with the previous 8 games De Gea played. 4 goals conceded vs 7. 6 wins (inc City & Spurs away by the way) vs 3. The statistics across all competitions were even more blatant.