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Yes but looks like the stat you posted for Alli is correct which is 19 goals.In that case, the same applies to Alli.
Yes but looks like the stat you posted for Alli is correct which is 19 goals.In that case, the same applies to Alli.
Lol. His fellow professionals beg to differ, which is why they voted the Alli best young player ahead of Martial.I agree with this. However as long as he keeps scoring, he won't get criticized much for an average overall ability.
In the 1.5 seasons that both have been at their respective Prem clubs, and in all competitions:
alli: 19 goals and 12 assists
martial: 17 goals and 7 assists
And his assists compared to Martial?Yes but looks like the stat you posted for Alli is correct which is 19 goals.
Different sites have different definitions on what counts as an assist so two sites are unlikely to have the same numbers. Goals on the other hand can't be disputed.And his assists compared to Martial?
What are you on about?In that case, the same applies to Alli.
Discussion moved on a bit from best young midfielder.How has Martial been brought into this? Alli is the best young midfielder currently. Martial is a forward in every regard
I think he's a bit more than just an up and coming young player, there are plenty of those in the PL and I think it's fair to say that Alli is the best of them with a chance to go on and be a top class player.
Whether he will or not remains to be seen.
Alli is not the best of them. That mantle goes to Martial. Players like Iheanacho can also stake a solid claim for it, not to forget the likes of Sterling as well. Alli is just one of many talented young guns in the league and all have a long way to go before they are considered established superstars.
That's a really convenient way of looking at things.Apart from goals, Martial also basically won an FA Cup singlehandedly. His semi final performance against Everton was legendary.
Alli has no honours to his name and may have to move to collect them.
I know it's unfair to compare team achievements when Alli is at a club recognised for failure, but Martial also lifted a lacklustre poorly coached side last season to trophy winners.
Martial was one of the best players in the run up to the finals.That's a really convenient way of looking at things.
Rooney and Rashford were both better in the final (arguably one or two others also were), and Martial didn't score either of the goals.
Yeah he got overshadowed in the final but was great in the games ahead of that. I was more raving about his semi final performance which was phenomenal against a better side than we faced in the final. Ice cold winning goal. Difficult to imagine how much poorer our season would've been last year without that last minute deal for Martial.That's a really convenient way of looking at things.
Rooney and Rashford were both better in the final (arguably one or two others also were), and Martial didn't score either of the goals.
Votes more often than not defy logic and sensibility. Just ask David Cameron and look at the Ballon D'or most years.Lol. His fellow professionals beg to differ, which is why they voted the Alli best young player ahead of Martial.
But of course you know more about football then they do.
Yet he still didn't 'basically... singlehandedly' win the cup.Martial was one of the best players in the run up to the finals.
There's always some excuse. There are plenty of foreign players in the Prem. Moreover Martial wasn't the only young candidate, so to suggest that he was singled out because he plays for United is just paranoid: Giggs and Rooney received the same award (both twice), as did Beckham and Ronaldo, all when playing for United.Votes more often than not defy logic and sensibility. Just ask David Cameron and look at the Ballon D'or most years.
He's English in an English league where most players, teams and the press (especially the press) hate United with a passion and will always back the plucky underdog.
That may well be true, but it probably doesn't have much to do with Alli winning these particular awards. He just had the more memorable league performances and goals whilst playing in a better team. Essentially, he hit similar stats to Martial in a more eye-catching way.Votes more often than not defy logic and sensibility. Just ask David Cameron and look at the Ballon D'or most years.
He's English in an English league where most players, teams and the press (especially the press) hate United with a passion and will always back the plucky underdog.
Martial was immense last year and I'm pretty sure he won an award for his performances over the year. Everyone was agreed that he was looking like going on to become one of the best players in the world. Alli hasn't come near that yet.There's pretty much no difference between Martial and Alli's performances over the last 1.5 years, to be honest. Or public perceptions (not that public opinion makes any difference).
An unbiased forum (non-Tottenham/non-United) would probably show this.
You have mostly misunderstood my point. United players rarely win PoTY awards, but sometimes they do, as you pointed out. Sometimes winning the award doesn't mean there isn't a large bias against United in these areas.There's always some excuse. There are plenty of foreign players in the Prem. Moreover Martial wasn't the only young candidate, so to suggest that he was singled out because he plays for United is just paranoid: Giggs and Rooney received the same award (both twice), as did Beckham and Ronaldo, all when playing for United.
Alli was voted the best young player last season, and this season he has already nearly reached last season's goal tally. Deal with it.
Fellaini was more important in that run but people won't like to admit itMartial was one of the best players in the run up to the finals.
Apart from not rating Alli, i love that comment.I like Alli, we should put in a £20m bid after selling Fellaini for £30m.
And I think that describes (along with club focused agendas) 99% of the basis in deciding who gets these so called awards. They're a total farce IMO.That may well be true, but it probably doesn't have much to do with Alli winning these particular awards. He just had the more memorable league performances and goals whilst playing in a better team. Essentially, he hit similar stats to Martial in a more eye-catching way.
Bear in mind Martial did that in a LVG team that barely passed forward.....I think this season has skewed peoples memory. As goods as Alli played, he played in a free flowing United. If you were Martial, you can run all day. There was never a certainty you would get the ball so mentally he was great. I wouldn't trade them let's put it that wayYet he still didn't 'basically... singlehandedly' win the cup.
A number of players had their great moments/great games. Martial's great game may have been the best out of everyones, but that still doesn't equate to him dragging the team to cup success.
Everyone?Martial was immense last year and I'm pretty sure he won an award for his performances over the year. Everyone was agreed that he was looking like going on to become one of the best players in the world. Alli hasn't come near that yet.
EDIT: It was the Golden Boy award for best young player in Europe.
Alli was also immense last year, and also won awards for his performances over the year.Martial was immense last year and I'm pretty sure he won an award for his performances over the year. Everyone was agreed that he was looking like going on to become one of the best players in the world. Alli hasn't come near that yet.
Ok not literally everyone but there was definitely a lot of excitement around him and fans and pundits alike were talking about him one day getting to that level. He was unbelievable last year.Everyone?
I certainly wasn't, he's a very good player but I didn't think then and don't think now that he will become one of the best players in the world, that's a very elite group.
A United player has won the same award as Alli 7 times since 1990-91. That's around 25% of the time ... in a league of 20 teams.You have mostly misunderstood my point. United players rarely win PoTY awards, but sometimes they do, as you pointed out. Sometimes winning the award doesn't mean there isn't a large bias against United in these areas.
I've never said Martial was better or worse than Alli. Though Martial is clearly more talented and a bigger threat to the opposition as an individual if not (last season) as part of the team. Alli is drastically overrated in England by nearly everyone, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
It's splitting hairs really as both have had a lot of plaudits over the last year. Taking Martial out of the equation, i just don't rate Alli like others seem to. He's still got to prove for me thag he's even better than the likes of Aaron Ramsey, who definitely isn't near the top level.Alli was also immense last year, and also won awards for his performances over the year.
And certainly not everyone was agreed with your last statement. Many feel he'll become a top player, same as for Alli.
If I was biased (and some stat spouting Neanderthal) I would just cover my ears and tell you that Martial won the European Golden boy award which means he's better than Alli and should have won the PL award too. But that basis for judging a payer is total bollocksA United player has won the same award as Alli 7 times since 1990-91. That's around 25% of the time ... in a league of 20 teams.
Alli deserved the award ... and crying foul about it is just a load of incredibly biased and paranoid nonsense.
I've just told you that a United player has won the same award as Alli 25% of the time since 1990-91. And yet this isn't enough to prevent you from saying "United players have been excluded too often".If I was biased (and some stat spouting Neanderthal) I would just cover my ears and tell you that Martial won the European Golden boy award which means he's better than Alli and should have won the PL award too. But that basis for judging a payer is total bollocks
Young PoY and senior PoY awards - deserving United players have been excluded too often over the years for the awards to be truly meritocratic.
Walker was dreadful, so was Rafael. Neither should have won it.I've just told you that a United player has won the same award as Alli 25% of the time since 1990-91. And yet this isn't enough to prevent you from saying "United players have been excluded too often".
This is all on a par with the claims on here for almost every United signing that they are either world class or a world-class prospect. I remember the same claim being made about your RB, Rafael, and the outrage expressed when Kyle Walker won the same award as Alli ahead of Rafael.
Well guess what, Walker has gone on to become one of the very best RBs in the Prem and Rafael was dumped by United. So go figure.
I understand your point perfectly: despite winning 25% of the YPoY awards in the last 25 years - and despite winning the senior PFA award 7 times in the last 16 years (nearly 50% of the time) - United players have been hard done by because of biased voting. What a load of bollocks.Walker was dreadful, so was Rafael. Neither should have won it.
I'm not distinguishing between the young PoY and senior PoY awards as I believe they're voted on by the same club affiliated people. Regardless of winning the young PoY award 25% of the time, United players should have won English awards more often, I can't understand why you're so confused over my point here.
Why are you even talking about Martial you weirdo ?Lol. His fellow professionals beg to differ, which is why they voted the Alli best young player ahead of Martial.
But of course you know more about football then they do.
True however it also doesn't mean hes miles ahead with the same qualities. As for what Muller has accomplished, Alli is way to young for that to be brought into the debate. Alli has also shown great versatility during his short tenure and has a great workrate.Similar qualities don't mean the same level of those said qualities. Alli, while being a talented youngster, is not even close to Muller's level. Muller had 32 goals last season. Alli has had 10 so far as his best performance in a season. Muller also is an absolutely vital part of the WC winning Germany team. He can play anywhere across the front three and his movement off the ball is second to none. His defensive qualities are also underrated. Alli is not that good defensively and that is why he struggled in the midfield role. He seems to need that free role to thrive, something which Muller is not dependent on.