Like 95% of our wins in the last 12 months.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Head to heads don’t really mean much do they though. He couldn’t beat the likes of Sheff Utd where as ETH could… just the same thinking.
ETH could barely beat Sheff Utd. They should’ve been 2-0 up in the first half and caused us issues.
Any thought on the Frank only winning 3 in the last 20? He was overated last season when he finished 9th. This job is too big for the likes of him and some of the other managers that are overachieving with smaller clubs. We need someone with the right mentality who can handle managing a massive club. 1 thing ETH has done right he’s brought discipline to the club.
Oh I agree, he’s nowhere good enough for Utd, even though he’s done a great job with Brentford until their woes this campaign.
I’m just saying I think he’s a better coach than Ten Hag.
The statistics are damning of Erik ten Hag and Manchester United
Not long now. He will be gone once the clause for missing the Champions League kicks in.
Would be senseless to keep him into the next season if they harbour such big doubts about him.
There’s a lot of fence sitting in the media regards EtH atm. I think even people like Mitten [who given his credentials you have to have time for] pretty much goes as far as saying ‘he’s got to go’ then draws back.
As with most managerial reigns, it’ll take one journalist/media guy with favour to go against him before the rest do.
If it be EtH or the next manager, there needs to be a minimum level of acceptable performance set for both manager & players.
Berrada has previously said players get 2 years then binned if not good enough. Now any team can lose, we see a weird Citeh result or 2 every year but when your team is dropping the stinkers we do week on week you need to address not only the pitch but the dugout.
EtH is another failed Glazer appointment. Ineos can’t have spent a billion & be ok with this. EtH will be entering the last year of his deal & won’t have the UCL kicker, surely the trigger gets pulled at the end of the year otherwise we go into next season with a lame duck coach.
We've signed 16 players under ETH.
6 of them account for most of the outlay. Mount, Martinez, Onana, Antony, Hojlund, Casemiro
Again most of our transfers have been either free or cheap punts...
6 of them account for most of the outlay. Mount, Martinez, Onana, Antony, Hojlund, Casemiro
Again most of our transfers have been either free or cheap punts...
Which players have been here 2 years min and are good enough for us to challenge for titles?
You’re choosing to ignore the point that had we chosen not to spend what we did on Antony we could have 2 maybe 3 players.
Liverpool got Gravenberch and Macallister combined for about £10million more than we paid for Mount.
Casemiro was a tremendous outlay that could have been spent differently.
You keep going down this disingenuous route. Yesterday somebody clearly pointed out to you that you’re including multiple 2nd/3rd choice goalkeepers in that 16 figure for example.
This kind of nonsense should be moderated.
From Ducker, which is likely to be well-sourced
I’ve never been more torn on whether a United manager should be sacked or not. Think it would only take one good argument either way to swing me
A part of me thinking showing him faith might mean something clicks. He’s shown previous capability at running the club well. And the players can’t always win. Backing him would show that the manager is more important than them. Obviously his responsibilities would be streamlined once Ashworth is in too
The other part thinks just have a total reset under Ineos. And of course that this season has been an absolute disaster in every way. Being in the FA Cup semi is the only glimmer of hope left
Considering Berrada made these comments a while ago & isn’t yet at the club, You’ve chosen to misinterpret the point.
Personally I don’t think any of the current team are ‘definitely’ good enough but I’m sure in 2 years time [you know after he starts employment] this squad & the dugout will look different.
I’ve long said not manager & team need to change. They don’t work in silos.
You can't argue with facts.
Mount, Onana, Antony, Martinez, Casemiro, Hojlund, Malacia = 7/16
Bayandir, Evans, Amrabat, Reguilon, Weghorst, Butland, Sabitzer, Eriksen, Dubravka = 9/16
Again most of our transfers under ETH have been free, on loan or cheap punts...
You're chosing to ignore the point being debated.
I'm including all of the signings under ETH. What else do you want me to cherry pick stats?
Ten Hag doesn’t set the price.
Did Guardiola decide the fees of his players? Does Klopp?
Ten Hag has power to veto any of them, as is in his contract. Also the reason we had to resort to these desperate loans was due to bringing in his priority targets at great expense, at his insistence.
Not sure how any of what you're saying helps his case.
Antony wasn’t his priority it was widely reported we wanted a striker. The club told him we couldn’t get one so we then looked for a wide forward instead.
This is the same club that suggested to Moyes we might be able to get Fabregas, Kroos and Bale and ended up with Fellaini after his release clause expired.
Well it does because you are basically looking at 6 players, maybe 7 out of the 16 that have been signed.
Only one of them right now have categorically been unsuccessful.
Casemiro and Mount are debatable but I still think Mount will be decent and Casemiro was bought for an instant impact and gave us exactly that last season.
The whole point of the debate is that it's a myth that he has bought players poorly. Which IMO he hasn't. He's just coached them poorly which is a different thing.
Woodward wasn't at the club and therefore played no part in suggesting anyone to Ten Hag, so that point is irrelevant.
It was Ten Hag suggestimg we sign players he was familiar with.
The mistake the club made was to pay any attention to him.
No Im not. You’ve been debating this with multiple posters disingenuously.
All signings are not ‘equal’ if they were they’d all cost the same. No one expects from Bayindar or Heatin what we’d expect from Onana.
Debate without context is banal. If you chose to spend nearly £100mil on Antony then you have to buy ‘cheaper’ players are finances are finite.
Totally missed the point but no surprise from you in this thread.
It would be nice to debate what is said rather than ‘Ten Hag doesn’t set the price’ which hasn’t been.
Been down this road with you in here before Starr. Move on.
£400m spent and 2 maybe 3 of them are likely to be first team starters under the next manager. That's buying players poorly.
I’m not misinterpreting anything. To be a success the suggestion is to give players 2 seasons then move on.
You don’t think any of the team is currently good enough so is your current view is pretty much all of them need to be cleared out for that success?
If so how are we expecting with injuries to significantly higher than 6th?
I'm not debating anything disingenuously
You are just apparently unable to comprehend what the debate is. I said that that it's a myth that we have bought poorly under ETH. I then said that most of our signings have been cheap punts, on loan or free transfers. Which is correct. Most of the money has been spent on 6 players with good success.
Taking into account every signing it appropriate. Don't cry to me just because it doesn't suit your narrative.
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Martinez - Will start.
Onana - Will start
Hojlund - Will start
Casemiro - is leaving, will recoup some of the fee and get rid of wages
Mount - very good player capable of either starting or being a superb squad player
Antony - a poor signing, probably sold at a loss
You're exaggerating to suit your narrative.
No you've literally just agreed with me.
No mate, I didn't.
Well he named 4 players that can suit a next manager so he didn't.
Technically 5 if Casemiro wasn't being sold. He'd also start.
All manager's are likely to make mistakes especially if there is no support from above due to a lack of Director of Football.
However with Ten Hag, i think judging him is much more simple.
Arguably from his 1st summer transfer window, people were judging the players he had bought & his 2nd summer window has relatively been the same.
He seems quite poor on analysing a players actual quality & you have to wonder if he has the ability to analyse 11 players very well to make a top team playing together to their strengths if he lacks the ability to do it for one by himself.
He seems like a good coach to some players because he has made many better individually both here and at Ajax - but I do wonder if that's done by his capability to see a players weaknesses more so than seeing a players actual strengths.
I just simply think we made a mistake in hiring him assuming him to be this new generational manager because we thought his well playing Ajax side was built by him - when it was actually built by Ajax the footballing club - creating a group of nice young players that had managed to move a level up by a coach who could improve the young players indiviually by analysing their weaknesses more so than creating a team playing to their true strengths.
However with Ten Hag, i think judging him is much more simple.
Arguably from his 1st summer transfer window, people were judging the players he had bought & his 2nd summer window has relatively been the same.
He seems quite poor on analysing a players actual quality & you have to wonder if he has the ability to analyse 11 players very well to make a top team playing together to their strengths if he lacks the ability to do it for one by himself.
He seems like a good coach to some players because he has made many better individually both here and at Ajax - but I do wonder if that's done by his capability to see a players weaknesses more so than seeing a players actual strengths.
I just simply think we made a mistake in hiring him assuming him to be this new generational manager because we thought his well playing Ajax side was built by him - when it was actually built by Ajax the footballing club - creating a group of nice young players that had managed to move a level up by a coach who could improve the young players indiviually by analysing their weaknesses more so than creating a team playing to their true strengths.
Then what exactly is your point? You’re mentioning player fees in the Ten Hag thread?
You named 3 starters. If you want to pretend I'm talking about first team squad go ahead (still a terrible waste of money)
That is a such a hugely disingenuous comment that I wonder whether you are aware you have left the ground of arguing in good faith.
Moyes was in the position of a big "M" manager, as we still had the notion of a SAF-style figure at the helm of the club who has authority over everything. He was doing/overseeing the transfers himself, we had no DoF, and he was famous for being painfully meticulous, read "slow", when deciding on transfers.
He came from Everton so he was the one who knew best when Fellaini's clause would be active and when it would be expired, to put the blame of that baffling story on the club in order to absolve the manager is just ridiculous.
Similarly, Moyes would have been involved in the Fabregas pursuit and he would/should have known just as well as anyone else at the club about the plausibility, or lack thereof, of a Fabregas transfer.
The story with Kroos is that Moyes had actually put the transfer in place when he was sacked, and with LvG the next MANAGER, not the club!, threw a spanner in the works.
To use these example in a narrative how our club is hindering the work of managers is about as wrong as you can be.
Whilst I do agree with that, I think he's a pretty good source still.