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Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Rashford was out top scorers last season, and has been available all of this season pretty much. If Ten Hag can't get him focused and performing for a full season then that is on him.
Bruno is Bruno. Plays every game, gives 100%. Best creator in the league and chips in with goals.
Garnacho has been great for us and would walk into most teams. Even the better teams would be giving him game time.
These are the options he chose to come into the season with, along with Hojlund and Antony. All have been available for a large number of games, so he's not done too bad in that regards. If Bruno had ever got injured then we'd have seen a real issue for him, because he is everything to this team. Without him there are no ideas at all through the way we play. Much like under Ole, Bruno is the brains of the team, because we don't play in a way to overwhelm opposition as a unit. It's just shit house long balls over the top and whip crosses in.
In midfield he's signed Eriksen, Casemiro, Amrabat and Mount, and has been lucky enough to have a top level talent come through the ranks in Mainoo. These have been supplemented with McTominay who has chipped in with goals and was wanted by West Ham, who are just below us in the table. Between all of them, I believe he could have put something together that worked.
Defensively we've had issues with injuries, but I believe that the likes of Maguire have performed well enough when relied upon. In fact, Dalot and Maguire have probably been amongst our best players this season. He also allowed Reguilon to leave, who I felt was doing a solid job at LB and has done well at Brentford, notching 4 assists in 12 and getting praise for his performances. Again, that's on the manager.
And the Antony thing is a bit of a joke no matter how you frame it. He worked with the guy for 2 years. You say Garnacho has played so much because "there are no other options", well what about his £80m signing that he recently said will be unstoppable for defences? Since he said that quote he's barely played the guy, instead benching him. If he truly believes he'll be that good then why isn't he tapping into that potential? Again, that's on the manager.
"Inclined," INEOS are just as dithery as the glazers.
This pinned tweet of his is interesting too... though I don't know how reliable he is.
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Er no, Mark Ogden (who first lined Southgate to United) said ten hag would be given one more season. Then we had a load of posts saying he knew feck all too.
This one I know for sure is a gossip journalist
According to Ogden, Ten Hags salary reduces by 25% if we don't get CL football, and that is why we will leave him in place till the summer as it will obviously be cheaper to sack him then.
Fair enough. Motta is an interesting option though and still available.
Erik's position is untenable if the club has any viable professional standards let alone ambition. It's almost impossible to predict what he's building towards when assessing how disconcerted the team is tactically over consecutive months. Giving the manager another year with further spend will just foster more instability in the competitiveness of the club over the coming year.
If there was any iota of capability to change things it would have been evident beyond the first game of the season, where the parameters for the seasons failures were demonstrable with the gaping holes in midfield. Erik's demise is not due to player contention, injuries or lacking charisma but the aversion to adapt.
Pep fundamentally has the same philosophy as a manager but independently assessing his tenure at city, there have been nuances in how he has differentiated his approach through different seasons. It's why for a period of time John Stones likely was considered a below-par signing for them but the moment a change of shape accommodates his position of playing into the midfield the player comes of age. I can't think of one significant example where any United player under Erik's supervision has demonstrated incremental improvement from a systemic application outside of sporadic individual brilliance which has become a hallmark of the failed managers this past decade.
To persist with the manager is the club hanging their hat on mediocrity and a massive blot against INEOS imo.
If there was any iota of capability to change things it would have been evident beyond the first game of the season, where the parameters for the seasons failures were demonstrable with the gaping holes in midfield. Erik's demise is not due to player contention, injuries or lacking charisma but the aversion to adapt.
Pep fundamentally has the same philosophy as a manager but independently assessing his tenure at city, there have been nuances in how he has differentiated his approach through different seasons. It's why for a period of time John Stones likely was considered a below-par signing for them but the moment a change of shape accommodates his position of playing into the midfield the player comes of age. I can't think of one significant example where any United player under Erik's supervision has demonstrated incremental improvement from a systemic application outside of sporadic individual brilliance which has become a hallmark of the failed managers this past decade.
To persist with the manager is the club hanging their hat on mediocrity and a massive blot against INEOS imo.
Fergie deserved respect. Totally different to this clown that only deserves the boot.
Horrific stuff. How dare they!
Also linked by Gazetta (at the bottom), hopefully we are looking at him
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Because every report by random journalists must be true...
I think the minute we see mitten/ogden/Dawson/Whitwell give some info, it would be more credible.
Italian journalists would have no clue what INEOS are planning.
Not very good at analysing reports are we
I didn’t get your point then
I'm just happy/hoping they aren't just sitting on their arses looking at only Southgate and Potter.
Having watched United this season, it looks accurate. We've been terrible.Yikes, 15th. Is that even accurate?
Madrid's Casemiro was used differently, he was what call in France a water-carrier, he played between the defense and other midfielders and defended going forward. The way we have used him reminds me of Kroos-Modric playing as double pivot in a 4231, it made them look terrible and completely off especially in transition.
And as you said he isn't Kanté, Kanté is a box to box with incredible stamina and agility who thrives in transition going both ways. Casemiro has never been a player that runs from one extreme to the other the way he has been used for more than a year. Also Casemiro isn't a small player, players of his stature are generally not running around.
Can't say Diallo is setting the world alight.
Like Antony, Diallo is doing ok: he tracks back, can keep the ball quite well, has an pretty decent shot, drifts inside alot.
I do think Diallo needs to play more. In my books it's a toss up between Antony or Diallo who plays on the right imo.
I think there has to be something in these rumours tbh. The fact that there have been some reports in Germany, that we've had talks with Tuchel and now reports in Italy saying we're interested in Motta. There was also that French report about Zidane.
Whether it's just sounding out potential managers or something more serious remains to be seen but I'd be very surprised with the current management of the club if we didn't start doing the groundwork on candidates from now.
Exactly , so we all dismiss “good news” as bullshit.
“Good news” in the sense that EtH getting sacked.
No, you did not quite understand my post.
Not at all. The tuchel circulation was very obvious. His mouth piece coming out via German outlets (Jose did the same thing following his Roma sack).
Its broadly bollocks unless sourced close to the club report it. The only thing I saw genuine (worryingly) was the Southgate consideration.
He's Tier 2. He has good sources, but his best ones are typically for Chelsea. He's still reliable, overall, but he can get things wrong on occasion.
73.5% voted don't want to give ETH another season and rightly so. No manager should survive if we failed to get Top 4. No ifs and buts especially after spending 400 fecking millions.
He was also fully backed with signing of his ex players or players he was familiar with from Eredivisie. He can't give us the BS now that he doesn't have the players to play his style of football.
He was also fully backed with signing of his ex players or players he was familiar with from Eredivisie. He can't give us the BS now that he doesn't have the players to play his style of football.
Yep, finally got a decent draw. But getting past Liverpool was commendable.
I wonder if Jose will rock up in Munich. That would be an eye-opener.
He is going.
The statistics and performances on the pitch aren’t good enough for a team like Everton let alone a team like United.
Tactically we have been absolutely horrendous and the fact we have any points on the board are despite him not because of him.
Huge gaping holes in midfield, no connection from defence and attack, inability to break down simple defensive structures and the instance on playing favourites who are not performing have all been common themes this year.
He has a ready made excuse in the injuries but no manager is that unlucky and there is a process or methodology that has led to those injuries that is simply not working and is actively harming players careers and reputations. If it is the medical staff La fault then it is the managers lack of understanding/ control of the situation that has led to the crisis.
but even then when he has his starting 11 or close to he is unable to coach them into a shape or style that is coherent and effective.
He has spent more money than any manager we have had and on baffling players like Anthony , Onana, Mount, Martinez and 75m on Hojlund it is gross incompetence of the highest order.
Now thing about INEOS who are cutting costs , looking at marginal gains, resetting the culture and looking at how the head coach implements a game plan and executes it. Then communication to the squad for the coach and the decisions the coaches make. He has failed in every regard and has been shown to be completely out of his depth.
They know this, we know this, it’s just stubbornesss keeping him and a fresh slate is best for all involved and that is indeed what will happen.
He’s gone no matter what.
The statistics and performances on the pitch aren’t good enough for a team like Everton let alone a team like United.
Tactically we have been absolutely horrendous and the fact we have any points on the board are despite him not because of him.
Huge gaping holes in midfield, no connection from defence and attack, inability to break down simple defensive structures and the instance on playing favourites who are not performing have all been common themes this year.
He has a ready made excuse in the injuries but no manager is that unlucky and there is a process or methodology that has led to those injuries that is simply not working and is actively harming players careers and reputations. If it is the medical staff La fault then it is the managers lack of understanding/ control of the situation that has led to the crisis.
but even then when he has his starting 11 or close to he is unable to coach them into a shape or style that is coherent and effective.
He has spent more money than any manager we have had and on baffling players like Anthony , Onana, Mount, Martinez and 75m on Hojlund it is gross incompetence of the highest order.
Now thing about INEOS who are cutting costs , looking at marginal gains, resetting the culture and looking at how the head coach implements a game plan and executes it. Then communication to the squad for the coach and the decisions the coaches make. He has failed in every regard and has been shown to be completely out of his depth.
They know this, we know this, it’s just stubbornesss keeping him and a fresh slate is best for all involved and that is indeed what will happen.
He’s gone no matter what.
Ogden's article was actually the strongest hint so far that he'll be leaving. Because he was the first journo I think to mention the 25% paycut.
Which both explains why the club are holding fire on sacking him, and why it'd be even more stupid for him to stay without a new contract from a financial point of view, millionaire family or not.
Which both explains why the club are holding fire on sacking him, and why it'd be even more stupid for him to stay without a new contract from a financial point of view, millionaire family or not.
Yes there’s this also
Even before I was informed of any agreement common sense indicated he was off.
Before INEOS came in and the head guys there was talk of new contracts , now it’s completely dead in the water and the final nail is the CL , miss out on it and you pay him a quarter less and only one year no less.
What's he on per year? 12m? So he’s likely getting a 8m payout which is peanuts compared to past managers we have had.
He would have been offered a new deal in Jan if he was staying to rebuild.
I think it's obvious that ETH will be leaving end of the season. Negative style of play or no style of play, wasted 400M on dross, failed to get Top 4, got absolutely shafted in CL. Each of the 4 major reasons above is a stackable offence on its own.
£9m down to £6.75m
Just his pride alone should stop him hanging around earning that when Pep is on £20m. Poch and Arteta both earn around £10m.
If he'd done the bear minimum as United manager he'd have been given at least 1-2 year extension months ago, with a salary bump, or at least the 25% reduction wiped out.
Yeah so anyone doubtful and that he’ll stay is this manager getting a pay rise of 4-13m based on his performances? The answer is no
By his own keeper, very painful stuff
Agree. INEOS are coming in and trying to make big changes. It makes zero sense to keep ETH in place now given the rotten form this year.
We hope there will be money to spend this summer, but if Ten Hag cant make it work with players that he has hand selected, then what makes anyone think that it will be any better when he is not in charge of identifying players.
There is a milase in this squad. It makes no sense to add 3 or 4 new players in over the summer into a dressing room who seem to have lost faith in the manager.
A new atmosphere needs to be created and only a new manager can bring that.
Couldn't even get top 5. I know it looks like 5th place wont get CL now, but even if had, we wouldnt get it.
Yeah because he has managed effectively one club, with whom he is intimately familiar and where he is a legend, who are fairly dominant in a league that has poor depth, a league he is extremely familiar with
I am not sure WTH you are referring to above with the "of course..." statement, I cannot wait to see the back of ETH not a fan, and TBH not sure who I would want to see replacing him, I am not a fan of Potter, Southgate or Di Zerbi either,
The OP said Zidane was the obvious answer, I am just not sure how as a manager he has shown that, I am not saying that I would be opposed to Zidane or that he would not prove to be brilliant, I would go as far as to say that Zidane would be a massive risk based on the limited scope of where he has managed
So he would be guaranteed success here? why? because he can deal with big egos? is that the problem ETH is having? don't think so, because he has experience working in different leagues, with different clubs, with different cultures... ermm!
As I say am not against Zidane but to say he is obvious answer is a massive stretch, he is an unknown anywhere barring RM
The worst thing about Ten Hag for me is the lack of pragmatism.
One of the biggest issues we have is our lack of recovery pace at centre back. We cant hold a high line. Without that, it is hard to press and constrain the opposition in their own half when centre backs like Maguire start backtracking as soon as we lose possession. Varane and Martinez are not quick either.
This creates that huge gap in midfield. We have seen it since the first few games of the season, when he had Mount and Bruno pressing up as dual 8's.
The awful form of Casemiro has not helped.
Despite all of this though, you have to find a way to make the most of what we have. It starts with making the team hard to beat. The manager hasnt been able to setup, or coach a team to be able to cover the deficiencies in the team. He is still persisting with having midfielders push on, leaving those gaps in midfield. He still has his left back inverting, even when we don't have a real left back.
When you are conceding the most shots in the league, as we were earlier this month, you have to be able to stop it. This manager seems to want to persist with his ways and methods regardless.
One of the biggest issues we have is our lack of recovery pace at centre back. We cant hold a high line. Without that, it is hard to press and constrain the opposition in their own half when centre backs like Maguire start backtracking as soon as we lose possession. Varane and Martinez are not quick either.
This creates that huge gap in midfield. We have seen it since the first few games of the season, when he had Mount and Bruno pressing up as dual 8's.
The awful form of Casemiro has not helped.
Despite all of this though, you have to find a way to make the most of what we have. It starts with making the team hard to beat. The manager hasnt been able to setup, or coach a team to be able to cover the deficiencies in the team. He is still persisting with having midfielders push on, leaving those gaps in midfield. He still has his left back inverting, even when we don't have a real left back.
When you are conceding the most shots in the league, as we were earlier this month, you have to be able to stop it. This manager seems to want to persist with his ways and methods regardless.
He's actually dong the exact opposite, the setup highlights weaknesses in certain players.
It was a bold strategy to persevere with for an entire season and it hasn't in any way worked out.