So much noise about eth staying, depressing news. If true next season is over before it starts. Had a bad feeling about Ineos from the start.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Aren't they the ETH mouthpiece?
I don’t think you watched the game mate!
"There is a positive mood around Carrington".....I guess everyone is excited about the looming specter of Europa Conference, a competition we have never participated. It would be awesome playing in distant parts of Europe in extreme weather on terrible pitches. Will toughen up our softies and ETH can finally show his mettle against managers his level.
The only two reasons l can see why he’s still here is the next manager is already at a club and will join in June, or the next manager and/or Ineos doesn’t want to be thrown to the wolves and start off on a negative , with 6th place or lower and losing the FA cup. It’s a lot better to start with a clean slate and a transfer window behind you.
I like how Onana pen was a gift, but actual gift from Burnley wasn't a gift. That goal was all Ten Hag. And then using xG to show how we were the better team, against a Championship level side at home, by subtracting the xG from the "gift". But then also completely ignoring that by x stats we have been one of the luckiest teams in the league the whole season. Totally not desperate.I don’t think you watched the game mate!
If I had a quid for every time I've read that this year.
What he could have done is get us playing a system which affords us some measure of control, has some sort of defensive structure and that doesn't result in the forwards all playing like they've been ordered not to pass to the centreforward under any circumstances.
In that scenario we might not be hanging onto a 1 goal lead at home vs the 2nd worse team in the league.
They definitely have some sort of in with the SEG Agency, I believe. That’s how they got that exclusive with Rasmus earlier in the season.
I disagree. We’re scoring a lot more goals now. Defence and holding midfield needs improvement but injury has made it hard to judge how much of that is tactical and how much is a personnel issue. I think it’s personnel.
So why not go all out for Alonso who is actually having an outstanding season and would be a clear upgrade? If we want to progress why go for a coach that struggled to win last season title against Dortmund and has whimpered and fallen out with many this season?
Again look at German media reports about Tuchel and Bayern. Look at what past players like Lahm etc are saying and the criticisms of his lack of clearly define roles and styles of play.
If we’re going to change manager then at least do your homework into their most recent body of work and scrutinise them to the same degree we do our current one.
The grass isn’t necessarily greener. I think he’d have huge problems here like he has at PSG, Bayern and Chelsea. I don’t think he’d suddenly make us PL or title contenders and I doubt he’d push this group much further in cup competitions.
I’m doing exactly what everyone here has done. I’m showing data that doesn’t quite follow some people’s narrative for this game.
I agree we’ve outperformed our overall xG this season.
I did. And we’ll see end of season what happens.I don’t think you watched the game mate!
If he stays and we get in the right players with a fitter squad next season I’d put money on us being better.
Steve Kemp worked with Ashworth for 6 years by the way.
That's a very bold prediction to say we'll be better than whatever this is with better players.
The sarcasm aside though shows you agree which means to some extent you accept that we’ve been impacted by both things.
We’re in a process the majority of us agree the squad isn’t close to the level of City, Arsenal and Liverpool and the majority of us agree that we’ve also been adversely impacted by injuries more than those clubs above us.
We have three very young players as key starters for us Højlund, Garnacho and Mainoo who don’t really have a quality understudy two of which are in their debut seasons.
It’s just going to take time. And I get the jokes etc about me being Ten Hag, his agent or 2nd cousin twice removed but it’s just how I feel right now.
I look at the decisions that I can absolutely attribute to Ten Hag and I can’t say with any certainty that another manager makes significantly better ones.
Id rather keep him with one year left on his contract to go. See if I’m right that he’s better than what we’re seeing now and if not well then at least we’ve had a few months to get Ashworth in the door and settled to find a better fit.
If we get in the right players with a fitter squad next season I’d put money on us being better with Big Sam or Dyche as well. It says more about Ten Hag than anything else.
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There’s no way he stays till November with 8 months left on his contract. Either he signs a new 2 year deal from now/this summer or he’s gone.
Any manager will be (or definitely should be) better with better players, that's just obvious. You haven't cracked some code there if it ends up being true.
I've long said quality of players is more important than any manager.
But, it doesn't excuse just how bad we are under Ten Hag even when nearly all players are available.
We don't need stop at 'better players'. Get a better manager too.
You don't think anyone could have made significantly better recruitment decisons for £400m than Ten Hag? Wow.
For someone who claims to not care about managers, you sure do seem to really want Ten Hag to stay no matter what he does. I don't think I've even seen you criticise him, you only criticise everything around him which implies he's not responsible for anything. There's no balance in what you say for it to be taken seriously, which is why people take the piss
The core problem on the pitch is that objectively our setup and tactical structure is not good enough but Ten Hag wants it exactly like that, because he keeps implementing it. The reality is that 'better' players will not change that. That is what I am so puzzled and disappointed about.
Ten Hag's work is by no means the only problem we have, and you could say he has been hard done by with the fact his tenure fell into a time when the whole club was in executive limbo, and, yes, aggravated by injuries, but there is no doubt that he has become a massive problem too. He is burnt, he is now becoming defensive and irritating, it needs to change. Next season would be no different at all. You are contorting yourself and every argument to make excuses for him, and I think you are severely fooling yourself for some reason.
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Pretty certain he's just a WUM at this stage.
I hate the Arteta argument. In the second season of those 8th place finishes, they only conceded 36 goals in the league.
He had them set up really well and they were hard to score against, even if the attacking play was really really bad.
There was stories at the time of signing that there was an option for a further year.
Why do you think that?
Wouldn’t Surprise me if this is true to be honest. He literally always plays when it doesn’t even make sense.
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"Can't" be a bad manager because he had one good season. Has he watched us since the cup final? Some people seem to be unable to comprehend that things in football often go south. Mourinho was a proven winner. He had just won the PL the season before. He couldn't have been a bad manager by this line of thinking as well and we should have persisted with him just to see what happens.
Definitely sounds like it. Also, if we are using injuries as an excuse then next season will be the same as all teams have them and we are probably more exposed than others due to our style. Maybe this time it will be forwards and midfielders instead of mostly defenders, and we will be saying we can’t score goals without Garnacho/Bruno/Hojlund/Antony/whoever is injured.
I don’t really believe having Martinez and Shaw back (if they are indeed back) is going to transform us from this mess into a good team but at the same time the bar for improvement is so low now that he can probably finish 5th on 62-63 points next year and get yet another year easily.
At this point I have come to terms with the fact that our main priority is now to help ETH look good, everything else is secondary. Just get him players, coaches that will make him look better and will cover for his ineptitude.
Can we get Martin and Gary too?
Don't really buy that. Him saying it was an internal matter was just Ten Hag wising up to the fact that when he says "unacceptable" it becomes a bigger story and feeds the frenzy, as happened the first time round.
I hear Jordan Henderson has excellent leadership qualities.
The logic is more he can't necessarily be a bad manager just because he had one bad season.
I think it’s a bad move if you’re going into a season already thinking we need to evaluate a manager at a predetermined part of the season. Clubs go into a season not expecting to sack the manager during it and go in with the belief that the manager will finish that season.
The knock on effects of that is players may not try 100% or are unsettled knowing the manager may go at any time. Any potential incomings will be put off by such a situation. The player may like that current manager but why move to that current manager’s team when he could be gone in a matter of weeks and you’re tied into a multi year contract?
And clubs which have the prospective new managers will note the situation, and they will rinse us for compensation when it comes to sacking the current manager and trying to get a new one (I.e. theirs), especially during the season.
Liverpool did this with Rodgers. They gave him Sean O’Driscoll and Gary McAllister as his new coaching staff, as well as money to spend as a chance to prove himself and within six weeks, all of them were sacked and they got Klopp.
The knock on effects of that is players may not try 100% or are unsettled knowing the manager may go at any time. Any potential incomings will be put off by such a situation. The player may like that current manager but why move to that current manager’s team when he could be gone in a matter of weeks and you’re tied into a multi year contract?
And clubs which have the prospective new managers will note the situation, and they will rinse us for compensation when it comes to sacking the current manager and trying to get a new one (I.e. theirs), especially during the season.
Liverpool did this with Rodgers. They gave him Sean O’Driscoll and Gary McAllister as his new coaching staff, as well as money to spend as a chance to prove himself and within six weeks, all of them were sacked and they got Klopp.
Hasn’t Ten Hag fallen out with too many people or is it okay when he does it?
Go back as far as you want. All great footballing squads that have been built were preceded by down periods for the respective teams and always featured wholesale changes to the core of the teams. The core of Fergie's 3 great teams were all very different. The great Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern sides of the 2010s were all preceded by down periods for all of those clubs. It is inevitable.
I would rather finish 10th for one or two seasons knowing that we have a young core on which we can build a team that can sustainably challenge for and win titles for the next 10 years than build the most expensive squad in Europe to finish 6th or 7th every other year. This core is mediocre at best will never ever contend for or win major titles. Its time to gut it. The gutting is even overdue. Will it hurt? yes it will but that is to be expected. We will come out on the other side on a far more sustainable footing than whatever we're doing right now.
We can do both, it’s not an either or choice
I think either he stays or we get Tuchel.
This is just PR spin. Ten Hag has kept his job through some really embarrassing losses, poor performances and consistent tactical flaws.
Nobody can seriously believe his treatment of Rashford would be the straw that breaks the camel's back, especially if it brought us better results than what we've had.
Surely the decision whether he stays or goes has already been made. I guess they don't want to rock the boat before the FA Cup Final.
When ten Hag does that it’s because he’s The Disciplinarian and it is awesome.
First it was he needs FDJ to play his style of football but then went out to buy Casemeiro with big money who's the exact opposite of FDJ. In a more bizzare move he then spent big money again on Mount.
Next, he needs Martinez to play from the back to transform our build up and attack. But he failed to see that he lack physicality and no surprises here that he is very injury prone in PL.
He also needs a ball playing GK to complete the team. It was led to believe that Onana was the final piece of the puzzle. However, now we are playing counter attack football.
Antony, no one can explain why we spent 100M on him.
One out of two at this level. Whether he's a "bad" manager is irrelevant anway. He's been performing terribly for over a season with us. We move on and that's it.
Because no manager goes into a new season with less than a year left on their contract.
No club goes into a season with a manager with less than a year left.
It means that there is no assurance for their future.
That’s depressing. This is a critical time for INEOS to do the right thing.
Nature is healing