Strange signings are one thing but why someone like Arnautovic who is quite problematic? Does he like these kinds of 'people' too? Is there something we should know about ETH? Something about his character that we haven't heard about yet...?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Think it's going to take a half season for ETH to find form. I'll be patient for the general play style to become second nature but that game was begging for more changes much earlier.
Not been coming here for a while. Trying to enjoy the summer and sun. But it seems to me that there are two issues here.
People over emphasising the words, "BACK THE MANAGER". Backing a manager doesn't mean we are setting him up for success. Instead of asking are we backing ETH, we should are we setting him up for success. This means knowing his style of play and the players that would fit in his system.
This doesn't mean chasing FDY the whole summer or creating sagas wih Ronaldo. It seems like Murtough and Arnold are hiding from their responsibilities by relying on ETHs limited to Dutch football experience.
How have we not come up with alternatives for FDY? This should be the responsibility Murtough. But it seems like Murtough has set an environment, where ETH is being set up for failure here.
They should also be the ones telling Ronaldo to get in line. ETH is not a scout, other than the Dutch league, he probably doesn't know of FDY alternatives. He is a great head coach. Let him thrive in what he's good at and serve him players that will fit his system.
This is perfect example of weak leadership. Not Ten Hag's fault at all.
People over emphasising the words, "BACK THE MANAGER". Backing a manager doesn't mean we are setting him up for success. Instead of asking are we backing ETH, we should are we setting him up for success. This means knowing his style of play and the players that would fit in his system.
This doesn't mean chasing FDY the whole summer or creating sagas wih Ronaldo. It seems like Murtough and Arnold are hiding from their responsibilities by relying on ETHs limited to Dutch football experience.
How have we not come up with alternatives for FDY? This should be the responsibility Murtough. But it seems like Murtough has set an environment, where ETH is being set up for failure here.
They should also be the ones telling Ronaldo to get in line. ETH is not a scout, other than the Dutch league, he probably doesn't know of FDY alternatives. He is a great head coach. Let him thrive in what he's good at and serve him players that will fit his system.
This is perfect example of weak leadership. Not Ten Hag's fault at all.
A honest question here, do you think any of the problems Utd are facing have anything to do with ETH? Shouldn't we give this guy a chance to at least mould a team? He is absolutely stuck with the shit last two previous managers have brought and Ronaldo to add to that. This club is in dire need of positivity and he tried to bring that in pre season, but the usual suspects always fail to deliver when push comes to shove.
We haven't been anything close to a team since fans came back and we seem to falter under any sight of pressure. That needs time to fix both culture and spirit, let's at least give him two windows and see where it takes us. That said the club has failed him in the market nothing new there, should we put that onto him as well?
People going overboard on him because he lost a game against a very well organized and structured team.
This place is toxic so much is for sure.
Sensible post. He’s inherited an absolute shower that’s for sure.
He could easily start the season with 3 losses like Arteta did last season. Brentford isn’t an easy place to go to and we definitely ain’t beating Liverpool. Good luck ETH!
You can see why tadic and haller would work in Holland though but you have to question whether that would be the case in the pl. If he starts naking the same type of signings and they fail he will come across as a moyes type - someone who has taken a significant step up but tries to continue doing the same thing
We’ve been duped into thinking a manager fixes the problem. At least, some have. It’s as you say. Managers like Klopp and Guardiola aren’t also genius scouts who know every player in the world who fits their precise style of play. It works because they have a competent scouting department which they work together with.
When you boil it down, to succeed you need a manager who has a strategy and philosophy in how the team play. And therefore, identify thematically the types of players he needs which can’t be executed by the current playing staff. Then, a scouting department who is able to identify players within the directive of the manager. Then, a competent “front office” who is able to deliver those targets. And finally, coaches who support the manager in turning those players once acquired into players who understand the tactics and fit the system. Oh, and money to spend (which I genuinely don’t think is an issue) and other things such as quality of facilities which isn’t pertinent to this point, and other such stuff.
ETH may or may not provide the bits he’s meant to. Point is it’s way to early to know, but ultimately irrelevant because we pretty much lack all other aspects of the requirements to succeed.
The fact we target players he knows really shows our scouting team doesn’t have a “list” of targets who might fill the roles he needs players for. The fact we fail to consistently deliver targets represents a failure in those going the deals to either execute them, or if not, identify early enough they won’t work and hence to look for other options. The players we have are also crap but a function of these two issues ultimately.
Until we fix all of these aspects, which by the way will never happen immediately and will take several years, it doesn’t matter who we sign. It doesn’t matter who manages them. And it doesn’t matter who coaches them.
We can, and should, still be able to assess how well ETH manages this group, but it’s like critically trying to assess how many runs a batsmen scores with a walking stick. In the grand scheme of things it’s irrelevant. The only thing we should be (somehow) trying to assess is how well and how clear his strategy is such that it could be conveyed to scouts for them to find the right players.
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Remember his interview a little while ago when he said it's criminal how we have used Donny? Actually quite funny how he himself then becomes our manager and starts McFred. Disastrous decision making from him today.
0-2 down and he looked completely out of his depth and kept clenching his teeth.
0-2 down and he looked completely out of his depth and kept clenching his teeth.
It's almost as if an organisation requires multiple, highly focused departments containing teams filled with skilled and specialised individuals in order to succeed. United must be the only professional workplace in the world where one single person is expected to lead the company to success in spite of being surrounded by useless cnuts
It sounds completely bush!t. Do you have a link, please?
Well that depends, doesn't it? If he really hasn't identified a single alternative to FDJ, then he's at blame as well. Not to speak of his apparent tendency of only signing players that he's worked with/have played in the Dutch league - like fecking Arnautovic.As I said a few days ago, he's being set up to fail by the ineptitude that surrounds him.
Will be interesting to see how quickly the powers that be will push him out in front to take the blame. You'd have to think he has a free pass this season, but I suspect it won't take long before the pressure on the club starts to build.
Or maybe signing Arnautovic will turn it all around
We would have definitely not been chasing one player the whole summer if it was Conte
I agree. Always puzzled why we were just linked with his former players. Klopp hardly has any BVB players and Pep has none of his Barca boys. Need a diverse selection of options
And this is really where I challenge our current ownership. People go on about a lack of spending and all that stuff, which is rightly a point of annoyance. But it not their gravest mistake. It’s that they’ve failed, by keeping Woodward for so long, to identify a CEO who understands the basics of what a football club nerds to succeed. They should have identified and remediated that sooner. Only time will tell if they have now fixed that or not.
Genuine question, what did you want him to do? Our team needs fighters and leadership in areas where we are very weak. There are no quick fixes here
I don’t think it’s the manager that’s the problem mate
We’re also not Ajax, we don’t need to sign a West Ham reject until we unearth a diamond from somewhere in South Africa’s second division
Identifying targets shouldn't be his job in the first place. Club has let him down horribly there.
It seems so stupid to say but games like FIFA and Football Manager probably contribute to this weird idea that managers can easily find players to target. In reality, though, when you actually sit and think about it, a tremendous amount of work is not only needed to find players, but then also actually assess them. Because real world isn’t just ratings and numbers, although analytics may help in tempering inherent bias.
Yup, I’d actually be very interested to know what did Murtough actually do this summer. So far I’ve seen:
- No scouting
- No planning
- Very little negotiating
This place is so toxic I fear for some of you guys. I hope you enjoy life more than it shows here.
Let's see where we are in 6 months, with hopefully a few more signings.
Let's see where we are in 6 months, with hopefully a few more signings.
I would challenge this - why is it ETH’s job to identify specific players? Is this not a fault of our scouting department?
ETH is not the problem.
Not a good start. From the lack of flexibility and ultra specific player targeting when we have literal shit on the pitch to that first half today.
Thought-terminating cliche that adds absolutely nothing to the discussion
Other than describing the situation perfectly you mean?
I don't blame him, I've seen what he can do with proper players. The style his teams can play, give him time and more importantly give him the players he wants and we'll improve.
No one can coach this current squad to actually challenge, the squad lacks quality simple as that.
No one can coach this current squad to actually challenge, the squad lacks quality simple as that.
I'm genuinely worried for some of you. Maybe take a step back and see how we'll do in the next few weeks in the transfer window, and see in 6 months where ten Hag takes us.
There is little to none you can take away from the first game of the season, with key players only have trained a few days under a new manager.
Right now I’m just happy that someone (ETH) with a progressive and modern perspective on football is assessing this squad on a dailly basis.
I have no doubt that he will manage to correct and tweak this team into something more stable than we are seeing right now. We won’t be a great team with the current squad, but we should be able to compete for 4th.
This match today must have given him a lot of answers. He just needs to trust his gut, and we need to give him time.
I have no doubt that he will manage to correct and tweak this team into something more stable than we are seeing right now. We won’t be a great team with the current squad, but we should be able to compete for 4th.
This match today must have given him a lot of answers. He just needs to trust his gut, and we need to give him time.
You're an Arnautovic fan, you have no right to call anything "toxic".
This
Our scouts are crap sure, that has been known for many years now. But if they suck, he doesn't have to come up with outrageous suggestions like Arnautovic. I'd rather he signed no one until January.
If Arnautovic was not his idea, he should have veto'd it even before it got to the bid stage.
Arnautovic is just not a Manchester United player.
Exactly. Even if he only wants FDJ, the club should be telling him it's looking tricky so we are moving onto player X as he fits the profile we need.
Klopp was reported to want Pulisic, Gotze, Brandt and Draxler over Mane and Salah but the club got them instead. We clearly aren't supporting ETH or other managers in the same way other clubs do.
Ah, that one again. If you read the Dutch original, he says that it's 'doodzonde' what happened to Van de Beek. That indeed means 'mortal sin' if you translate it literally (or actually: 'dead sin'), but that's not what it means. It means 'great pity' in Dutch, and what Ten Hag was saying, is that it's a great pity what happened with Van de Beek. It wasn't a criticism of United, but a reflection on how things turned out for Van de Beek after his transfer.
It’s talksport. Do you have any link from more reliable source?
Well he's in for a long season.
If he doesn't show progression as the season progresses, he won't last the season.
If he doesn't show progression as the season progresses, he won't last the season.
Those comments were in the context of VdB getting no game time at all. He probably got more minutes today than he would get in 2 or 3 months under Ole.
Gotcha.