No but it confirms that the lazy twats we thought played for us are still lazy twats. Ten Hag wants them to run and they’re not taking any notice.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Because of the comments he made with 'signing the right players (when in fact pinning all hopes on one guy who had shitty mess for the whole summer)' and the recent acceleration of trying to sign all toms and dicks with shady characters or outcasts? If we had more targets earlier, they would have leaked.
And pointing out that he probably did not have experience with building a squad at this level is not turning against him. If anything, I am blaming the club more for probably listening too much to him.
But our press was bypassed with long balls and we had 65%+ possession.
I think the press have just latched on to a distance ran stat and made a nonsense story out of it.
That doesn't make sense. Only shady character was Arnautović and the fact we're linked with other options now doesn't mean there wasn't a list earlier.
It does not make sense to you. really?
We had about more than two months to sign more than three players (one was free) for rebuilding the squad, yet we only knew about three new targets once the season started a week ago or so.
If we had more targets earlier, they would have been leaked. Oh, and we had an agreement with Barca pretty early on and got Martinez pretty quickly as well.
The really annoying thing I don't get is how our defense is still taking so many touches before releasing the ball. It is ponderous and makes it easier for the opposition to set up an effective press. Maguire is particularly guilty of this and has been since Ole days.
Initially I thought it was Ole's choice but then I saw it happen under every single manager since, even yesterday. Literally no other top team does this! It's always one touch, pass with the next, keep the ball moving quickly. Sure ETH has to be seeing it too.
Initially I thought it was Ole's choice but then I saw it happen under every single manager since, even yesterday. Literally no other top team does this! It's always one touch, pass with the next, keep the ball moving quickly. Sure ETH has to be seeing it too.
Are you one of the players?
I can imagine them asking that along with "what do you mean by trying? We never had to do that before"
No it couldn’t.
How much do City run?
I think that's why Frenkie is so important to his system. We need someone to give the ball to. Give it to Frenkie and build the team around him. Give it to Fred and watch your blood pressure go up.
Yeah but you can run backwards too
Pretty sure this isn't true. In fact, the better you are, the more possession you have and the more you make your opponents run. There was a stat last season where City had one of the lowest running/ pressure stats but the highest pressure success rate. They don't do too much running beacuse they almost always have the ball but when they lose it, they're so good at getting it right back.
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Maguire is a massive problem with playing from the back. It does not seem like he sees or thinks what to do with the ball until he gets it and touches it about five times.
I have to agree with @Mr Pigeon here.
For the first time in forever we have signed a coach (not a manager) to instil a playing style and the announcements over the Summer by the club gave the indication that, post-Woodward, we would also have a clear and separate structure relating to transfers and finance.
It may be that given Murtough, because he is new in the job, is deferring to the manager, but we have done that for a decade and the current squad (somehow an amazing combination of bloated, mismatched and lacking in key areas) has been the result.
If Ten Hag is leading on transfers, or is being more and more involved in transfers, that's a massive red flag, as we are now getting him to focus his attention on stuff which we didn't sign him for, meaning he has less time to do the actual, specific, focused job he was hired to do.
For the first time in forever we have signed a coach (not a manager) to instil a playing style and the announcements over the Summer by the club gave the indication that, post-Woodward, we would also have a clear and separate structure relating to transfers and finance.
It may be that given Murtough, because he is new in the job, is deferring to the manager, but we have done that for a decade and the current squad (somehow an amazing combination of bloated, mismatched and lacking in key areas) has been the result.
If Ten Hag is leading on transfers, or is being more and more involved in transfers, that's a massive red flag, as we are now getting him to focus his attention on stuff which we didn't sign him for, meaning he has less time to do the actual, specific, focused job he was hired to do.
There is a difference in being extremely effective and efficient and being shit.
The poor guy has been stitched up like a kipper and fed a pack of lies. However, it was his decision to still play Shaw, Maguire, Fred, Rashford etc. I feel sorry for him; he's landed in a mess of a club, but he must also help himself and get ruthless with the losers in the squad.
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It has been very obvious after this transfer window and some of Ajax fans I think said that someone else did the signings for him back there.
Murtough is amateur at best at this level and probably gives in too much to the manager. And it is very very concerning for us.
Said it last season but the players think they know how to do their jobs better than managers. Maguire, Shaw, Rashford especially just don't change their style for no one. The others you can at least see some changes but those three nothing.
If they don't adapt they have to be dropped.
I really hope we get him but it has to be worrying that the success of our system hinges so much on one player. What if he signs and gets injured?
If EtH did punish the players for their uninterested display yesterday, I can't see how that can be construed as a bad thing. A lot of the squad have been phoning it in for a while now, giving up as soon as we go a goal down, and that needs to change. If they learn that the distance will be run anyway, they'll hopefully realise that they may as well run it during the match.
More generally, we're going to take a few more beatings before things start to improve. Most of our players revert to what they're used to when under pressure, which is avoiding responsibility. It'll take time to drill that out of them, and some will be beyond saving. But if we wanted a manager to adapt to the set of players, we should have gone for Big Sam. Instead we finally have the kind of manager so many of us were crying out for, a coach who knows the modern game, has a proactive philosophy, and won't compromise. Now we just need to give him the time to bring the squad up to speed, though training, coaching, and replacement.
More generally, we're going to take a few more beatings before things start to improve. Most of our players revert to what they're used to when under pressure, which is avoiding responsibility. It'll take time to drill that out of them, and some will be beyond saving. But if we wanted a manager to adapt to the set of players, we should have gone for Big Sam. Instead we finally have the kind of manager so many of us were crying out for, a coach who knows the modern game, has a proactive philosophy, and won't compromise. Now we just need to give him the time to bring the squad up to speed, though training, coaching, and replacement.
If City didn’t get away with tactically fouling every time they lost their ball their stats wouldn’t be as low!
Liverpool and Chelsea finished 2nd and 3rd and were in the top 5 (if I remember) in pressing stats last season and top 3 in possession as well.
Liverpool are a bit more back and forward up the pitch but the point still stands. You also have to remember the players strolled about in the heat after the fourth goal so it’s really worse than it looks imo
Leaks are about players we're linked with, not about a list ETH gives to the board.
Exactly, it's not about headless chicken running. You can't just look at running stats in isolation.
Tbh as fans we're a bit too impatient at the moment. I don't actually think we've had a bad window yet. However the nature of the losses that we've had and the media uproar regarding them has created an extra sense of panic across the fan base.
We were right to seek out FDJ and have been right to pursue that transfer. That transfer stalling and the importance of the position to our team has hurt our start to the season. Ole was able to hide our midfield for a couple of seasons bynplaying a relatively deep block, but since last season its has been clear that when trying to operate like a regular top side our midfield consisting of Fred or Mctominay struggle immensely. It hurt our ability to move the ball up the pitch in the first half against Brighton. It has exposed us on the counter ( they are not good defensive players as has always been suggested). We can't control games with them. We can get our attackers involved in games with them. Sorting out that issue is paramount to any immediate success we might have and the stall on FDJ and ETH learning how bad this situation is has partially hurt our start.
The second major issue we have had so far has been the Ronaldo situation. We haven't been able to sell him on, he's a toxic presence and his lack of pressing ability due to his age hurts us. Selling him and signing a decent forward would really improve us and relieve the club of dealing with him.
The rest is down to patience. No team can sign 11 new players in a season. As a fan base we have been guilty of labeling everyone without the benefit of doubt or citing past performances. We need to focus on replacing positions in which the starters have consistently failed in their time here. Shaw, Maguire, Mctominay, Fred and Lindelof. Focus our energy on our issues rather than the team as a whole. We have made strides already in this department by bring replacements for Shaw, Maguire and have been heavily focused on adding new CMs. Eriksen and Martinez can also played the CM roles as well. The expectation was never thag we were going to be q succesful side immediately, so giving both the board and our manager time to change the squad into what we want it to be is paramount. This isn't going to happen in one window, which is why signing 5 player for example cannot be seen as a failure at all.
We have key problem areas which need to be solved this window and are being solved. We have a few weeks to make those deals happen and have been in the process of doing so since the start of the window. We have signed very versatile players and as a fan base we have no idea about how this team will look at the the end of the season. Eriksen may end up being a Scholes like figure for us. Martinez may end up bossing the midfield as a CDM. Bruno will get back in form. We may end up playing a diamond or 3 at the back. It really is all upon the air, so let's wait and see. We have really good players in the squad already, but it's unbalanced in terms of talent. It's new leadership at the club and new management in the football side, they need time. Time that Woodward may have got too much of, but Arnold and Murtough deserve.
We were right to seek out FDJ and have been right to pursue that transfer. That transfer stalling and the importance of the position to our team has hurt our start to the season. Ole was able to hide our midfield for a couple of seasons bynplaying a relatively deep block, but since last season its has been clear that when trying to operate like a regular top side our midfield consisting of Fred or Mctominay struggle immensely. It hurt our ability to move the ball up the pitch in the first half against Brighton. It has exposed us on the counter ( they are not good defensive players as has always been suggested). We can't control games with them. We can get our attackers involved in games with them. Sorting out that issue is paramount to any immediate success we might have and the stall on FDJ and ETH learning how bad this situation is has partially hurt our start.
The second major issue we have had so far has been the Ronaldo situation. We haven't been able to sell him on, he's a toxic presence and his lack of pressing ability due to his age hurts us. Selling him and signing a decent forward would really improve us and relieve the club of dealing with him.
The rest is down to patience. No team can sign 11 new players in a season. As a fan base we have been guilty of labeling everyone without the benefit of doubt or citing past performances. We need to focus on replacing positions in which the starters have consistently failed in their time here. Shaw, Maguire, Mctominay, Fred and Lindelof. Focus our energy on our issues rather than the team as a whole. We have made strides already in this department by bring replacements for Shaw, Maguire and have been heavily focused on adding new CMs. Eriksen and Martinez can also played the CM roles as well. The expectation was never thag we were going to be q succesful side immediately, so giving both the board and our manager time to change the squad into what we want it to be is paramount. This isn't going to happen in one window, which is why signing 5 player for example cannot be seen as a failure at all.
We have key problem areas which need to be solved this window and are being solved. We have a few weeks to make those deals happen and have been in the process of doing so since the start of the window. We have signed very versatile players and as a fan base we have no idea about how this team will look at the the end of the season. Eriksen may end up being a Scholes like figure for us. Martinez may end up bossing the midfield as a CDM. Bruno will get back in form. We may end up playing a diamond or 3 at the back. It really is all upon the air, so let's wait and see. We have really good players in the squad already, but it's unbalanced in terms of talent. It's new leadership at the club and new management in the football side, they need time. Time that Woodward may have got too much of, but Arnold and Murtough deserve.
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I simply don't think that work on these players. If anything, I think they're even more likely to down tools if the manager goes to war with them. They've seen off the last few managers by refusing to even pretend like they give a toss. A few extra training sessions aren't suddenly going to make them buck their ideas up. I certainly don't think they'll care if Ten Hag is sacked or not. There were leaks straight away from the dressing room when Ten Hag was appointed that the players wanted Pochettino. Maybe they think they can get rid of Ten Hag before the World Cup and the club will turn to him. It's really a matter of whether the club chooses to back the manager fully or not, because I think that means straight up getting rid of a lot of these players. And we know who it'll be cheaper for the Glazers to replace.
Giving our manager's background, you could argue that success for us will look more like City's than it will Liverpool's or Chelsea's.
You do know that everything can be leaked in this age right?
We knew most of the players on his list early on. More than half of them could not be signed and we knew that early too. Not a single CM or DM name was mentioned until last week. We do know that the club is useless in doing transfer stuff this summer and entirely relying on the manager. So yes, I put a lot of blame on the manager for not having alternatives from his Ajax players earlier.
Forum rules be damned, this is going straight on my Facebooks.
Ok, who was on the list of forward players other than Antony?
Forum rules be damned, this is going straight on my Facebooks.
What are you on about now?
Has Ten Hag hired a stenographer?
Not sure. A quick google search put them on top this season so far, while if you e.g. look at the 2019-2020 season, they were not even top 10. The 3 teams running most then, was 3 teams fighting relegation (Brighton, Norwich, Bournemouth). https://www.skysports.com/football/...ier-league-running-stats-this-season-revealed
I've posted this before but expecting managers to have expansive lists of transfer targets beyond players they've already managed or managed against is absolute folly. Big clubs employ dozens of people to gather and maintain information on thousands of professional footballers. Managing the first team of a professional club is already a 60-80 hour a week commitment, there's no manager on earth who's going to be able to give a list of 4-5 attainable transfer targets for each position unless he's been on sabbatical for several weeks and personally scouted several hundred matches.
Don’t have much else to say, apart from the fact that I will support the manager no matter what, even if we are in 17th place come April.
There is a severe rot within this playing squad that needed to be removed, and new culture to be created. As long as we progress on that path, I am happy. Results don’t matter anymore. These frauds have to go.
There is a severe rot within this playing squad that needed to be removed, and new culture to be created. As long as we progress on that path, I am happy. Results don’t matter anymore. These frauds have to go.
It is useless, the culture is so bad now that nothing we do can change it unless a new owner comes in with an open cheque book. Just look at Chelsea, how much the new owner is willing to spend? I hope Glazer see this as a sinking ship and decided it is time for a change of direction than perhaps things can improve. We need whole new squad, I mean we need literally another 7-8 new quality players. New keeper, new RB, new CB, 2 new CM, 1 RW, 1 ST. That's how bad this overhaul. Transfer budget of at least 400 mil which Glazer won't sanction.
You are right. But this is the manager's thread, so my points were focused on him. He is not blameless himself totally.
As for the club, they are all amateurs giving in to the new manager's demands, most likely because they were incapable of doing it properly. Firing scouts without replacing them showed you how much faith they put in the manager, which is beyond ridiculous.
But there was information on how the club wanted to sign Torres instead of Martinez and if anything, that confirmed more on the point of giving in too much to the manager.
Some will have to go, for sure, as they're unwilling or unable to adapt to the style of football that EtH (and Rangnick, and even Ole) wants us to play.
Still, him setting the expectation that full effort is the minimum requirement will pay off down the line, when the more resistant players to that are gone, the rest will raise they need to buck up.
Some interesting tweets there. Good to see the leaks were finally stopped...