Really good post but I would still would have liked to have seen another defensive midfielder in there because the space afforded to City was just outrageous. I know we're moving toward a new style but ...I think we needed to compromise a little. I keep banging on about it but we can't keep losing games by shipping so many goals. Eight games if you count this season and last where we've shipped four goals. It's a big mental problem that he's going to have to sort out with these players.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I don’t think it was tactical (or not only) we had zero intensity in our play today.
One of the hardest games of the season...we lost!
The End.
Next game please.
The End.
Next game please.
I wouldn't play McTominay and Bruno is big game. Casimero cost us 70 million, a champion league winner to warm the bench. McTominay maybe willing but bottom league player. Bruno always lose the ball, team will alway be under pressure with him on pitch. City got Bruno and we got Bruno, it is wide gap in class. Overall, Ole really set us back way back. Maguire, AWB, Bruno, Sancho and Ronaldo. None of these players can walk into top side. Sancho is not suited to EPL, I have seem nothing to convince me that we got a world beater. He isn't even a starter for England. Saka, Foden and Sterling will always start before him. Poor appointment really set us back at least 4 to 5 years.
Is that an accurate description of SAF? SAF added the cynical approach later in his tenure, early one United were described as adventurous and naive. Post 2000 United was made of players that were used to SAF's normal approach and the more pragmatic approach were an addition to a settled team.
Here with ten Hag we are talking about the early days of cultural change and not how a manager handles a team that he knows inside out after more than a decade managing the core of the team.
I applaud trying to change our mindset and be an attacking club but can anyone explain me the defensive system? It seems like players are told to defend with their eyes or something
That's true. But I do think the most important job away at City is to not lose the game after 20 mins. Go there and be compact and park the bus for half an hour. Totally fine in my eyes as they are just so good unfortunately.
He didn't do that though. Players not excused either as they didn't close down the ball quick enough.
Like this.. it's not something that people should get all twisted about. Toughest game of the season, we lost hope the manager and the team takes a hard look at the approach.
You don’t need to go and park the bus, you need to defend on the front foot and press with intensity which we didn’t do
The results not that important if the manager is being backed long term it's about establishing a foundation to build from. ETH has to stick with his philosophy if it loses United the game so be it. The biggest thing United have lacked in the last decade is having no Identity. I don't think it's sustainable to play one method of play one week and drastically change it another. There needs to be a consistency.
Guardiola by comparison is in his 5th or so consecutive season behind a massive investment. City reorganised their hierarchical structure to suit his needs. This isn't an excuse but rather recognition of a very important word called process. United are at the start of the process with a new manager, City are more towards their end if Pep doesn't renew. I don't think United's summer was that good for there to be any expectations of dethroning every league team the club comes up against. Eriksen at Brentford last season, Malacia / Anthony both from Eredvise and Casemiro the only real quality impacting the starting 11 by his accomplishments and reputation.
Guardiola by comparison is in his 5th or so consecutive season behind a massive investment. City reorganised their hierarchical structure to suit his needs. This isn't an excuse but rather recognition of a very important word called process. United are at the start of the process with a new manager, City are more towards their end if Pep doesn't renew. I don't think United's summer was that good for there to be any expectations of dethroning every league team the club comes up against. Eriksen at Brentford last season, Malacia / Anthony both from Eredvise and Casemiro the only real quality impacting the starting 11 by his accomplishments and reputation.
Jesus, how many of you are there? One was enough!
How often does that approach work against City?
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I'm devastated with today's result and performance. It was incredibly naive to play eriksen and mctominay in midfield but shows Eric ten hag has stubborn principles. We may have been thrashed but for some weird reason I saw slight improvements in our play. We seemed more confident in possession and willing not to just hoof the ball aimlessly. We will never develop as a more possession based team if we succumb to pressing by playing hopeful balls which just end up with the opposition.
For the Everton game I hope he drops bruno (which will give him a kick up the bum) and mctom. Brings in casemiero and martial.
For the Everton game I hope he drops bruno (which will give him a kick up the bum) and mctom. Brings in casemiero and martial.
Mancini is a way better manager. We have played 7 games. And have conceded 4 or more in what, 3 games already? But yeah, that post was a little bit much, but the sense of it standsBloody hell, there's no white text, this is a genuine post. Unreal. The Mancini line is the icing on the cake
All I want to know is, who the hell decided Eriksen should be the one picking up Erling fecking Haaland for a corner?
To be fair, the half time subs were shocking too.
Casemiro and Martial have to come on at half time surely? Eriksen needed subbing or moving higher up the pitch at half time.
You aren't wrong, but lets not act as if you'd need to know your team for ten years to come up with the idea to be a tad more defensive against one of the best teams in the world during the last 5 years at their home ground.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with being brave and all that. But it is pointless if you are out of the game after 40minutes.
Theoretically both approaches work. In our case defending on the front foot doesn't make sense because a) we aren't particularly good at it (no suprise, no expert to teach that to our players for years) and b) this approach is extremely risky against such tactical players like at City who are soo good at intricate passing and close quarter dribbling. So in general you are right - but you can always only play the cards on your hand. And the only card we had today was playing at least more reserved.
It's also the way the team was built. Letting two negative managers spend more than half a billion did more damage than we realised. It's not bad but it's poorly balanced. We're actually still waiting for this lot to push high without being on the end of a massive scoreline.
Exactly
If there was a blueprint for beating City it would happen a lot more often or there would be particular clubs that do it consistently. City can play around/through a press wherever you decide to do it. It's not a foolproof plan for beating them.
we got ripped apart, didn't help varane being injured and they literally scored twice before he actually got took off.
If I was to throw blame his way it was the midfield, but he been loyal to the first 11 that has been playing and getting results for him lately, so I'd expect maybe a change up for the next game. Mctomminy was really bad that first half, game passed him by, I don't think the manager would have expected that to happen the way it did. Eriksen as well was so bad in the first half.
We move onto next game
If I was to throw blame his way it was the midfield, but he been loyal to the first 11 that has been playing and getting results for him lately, so I'd expect maybe a change up for the next game. Mctomminy was really bad that first half, game passed him by, I don't think the manager would have expected that to happen the way it did. Eriksen as well was so bad in the first half.
We move onto next game
Except I wasn't the poster who said that. The only issue I brought up was your assertion that empty stadiums somehow made finishing second less of an "accomplishment". I fully support ETH just as I fully supported OGS before he was rightly sacked last season.
Every single team played with empty stadiums in 2020. Why are you trying to use that to knock down OGS if not agenda posting?
It's something we and lots of other teams have done for a long time on corners. The smaller players attempt to block runs and the bigger players are stationed zonally to compete for the actual header. I don't know why people (least of all the fecking commentators) act like it's this alien concept every time still.
Eriksen wasn't expected to compete for that, McTominay was, and he's the one who lost out.
You see this sort of thing in loads of games.
You have your tallest players in the danger zones, and the rest are tasked with trying to disrupt the runs of the opposition.
We had a physically weak team especially with Varane off the pitch.
Haaland was bound to manhandle anyone we would put on him to stop him getting a run unless we move our best headers away from the danger zones and have them man marking instead.
Obviously it didn't work but it's not as simple as us asking Eriksen to win headers against Haaland. Mctominay just couldn't compete despite being a good header of the ball.
I don't think that would be his decision with Varane coming off. Another keeper would say something at that point or come off the line himself for such a high ball.
Alot. Most teams that take points off them didn’t park the bus.
We didn’t stand much chance to day. It’s all well and good opting for a more proactive approach, but I could also tell anyone that such an approach with a striker who cannot hold the ball up top and midfielders who cannot pass it is a fools errand.
Yes, we want to change our style, but the manager doesn’t make it to three years if you’re not getting results along the way. We did not have the players to play how we wanted to today. If we had Martial on, we have a chance of building some play. But you don’t just throw a game away as part of the learning curve, a manager has to win the game in front of him, not just the one three years from now. By all means, continue the transition to a more proactive side, but going into today, surely you ask yourself how best you can get a result today? And IMO, that wasn’t the approach we took.
Yes, we want to change our style, but the manager doesn’t make it to three years if you’re not getting results along the way. We did not have the players to play how we wanted to today. If we had Martial on, we have a chance of building some play. But you don’t just throw a game away as part of the learning curve, a manager has to win the game in front of him, not just the one three years from now. By all means, continue the transition to a more proactive side, but going into today, surely you ask yourself how best you can get a result today? And IMO, that wasn’t the approach we took.
He would've been sacked at Watford or Chelsea
It is? Wasn't aware of that. So Eriksen was the player supposed to block him out? Eriksen? I'd get it if it was Martinez or Malacia, given their aggressive style. Eriksen has never been a physical player, how could he have stopped Haaland from moving?
That's not what I said though. Someone used SAF as an example and the issue is that the example used only applies to the second part of his career at United. The point being that it was far from the first dozen of games.
Great post and I agree with everything.
I worry he hasn't learned from that Brentford massacre in the first half,he needed to make changes at 1-0 not wait
I brought him up stating that even he used a more pragmatic approach when needed. I wouldn't know if that was the case for all his tenure, I'll believe you if you say it wasn't, I don't follow United for that long. But to me, that doesn't matter too much though, Fergie was at his peak in what you call the 2nd part of his career, so I think, he makes for a good example because I wanted to bring a peak goat manager as an example, that it isn't wrong per se to adjust to your opponent like some are arguing here. Granted, a proactive style is what I want as well but based on what I've seen, expecting it to play out well today was at least very optimistic. Which is fine (to make it clear) but I hope, ETH learns from it.
Well said.
We can chop & change at the sight if every half decent side. What we have learnt today are that some players m who currently occupy spaces in the first 11 won’t be there under EtH in the future.
It doesn't make for a good example because you are comparing the peak of a manager with the acclimatation of an other one with his team. It makes no common sense and that's why I made the point about the timing of each observations. In fact we don't need to go to SAF, the same applied Guardiola and Klopp. It would make no sense to use Guardiola's peak with City and purposely ignore that his first season was often criticized for naivety.
And the idea that it doesn't matter to much to you makes you reference even worse because you essentially admits that you don't care about context.
A few fluke results? What on earth?
United deservedly won both games and played good stuff.
It's quite clear that our players have a weaker mentality then amateur level footballers and cannot be trusted to carry out the managers instructions on the pitch. I'm not sure what can be done to rectify this, confidence won't come from hammerings dished out but ultimately we always look to change the manager and the same rinse and repeat pattern.
There’s some absolutely idiot takes in here every time we drop points.
Have to be trolls or at the very least not United fans. Nowhere to be seen when winning. Sad acts.
Have to be trolls or at the very least not United fans. Nowhere to be seen when winning. Sad acts.
This is all very well in theory and whilst I agree that Ten Haag is more suited than Mourinho and Ole to pro active football, if the application is as we saw today then what exactly is the point? It’s all well and good saying you wanna be proactive and take control of games but there was feck all about that set up which suggested that.
Our players are spineless cnuts we know this, they’ll chuck the towel in at any sign of adversity so I know ten Haag has a tough job but …
We wanna control a game of football, you need your players as close to each other as possible. Our back line was dropping deep and eriksen and Bruno were trying to press high. Our front three were too far apart with Anthony and sancho far too wide. And if you’re away to Man City and want to control a game, you are not going to do it playing Scott Mctominay as a holding midfielder or rashford as a nine. It’s never gonna happen because neither are anywhere near good enough in those positions. He had better options on the bench to play this ‘proactive and controlling’ football but he didn’t pick ‘em because we won some games last month. You don’t just pick a team for the sake of it, you can still maintain an overall positive approach whilst factoring in the opposition. That wasn’t done today. Tactically today it was a complete mess.
And also being 4-0 down twice in the first six weeks of the season is not a good blueprint for wanting to be a proactive team in the front foot.
It's time to ETH to start FEC in the midfield.
Fred Casemiro Eriksen is the answer,
Fred Casemiro Eriksen is the answer,