A good attack wins you games, a good defense wins you titles. This season illustrated that perfectly.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
To be fair he has a point, the only issue is that it applies to every season including the ones where we were shit and someone else qualified for the CL. It's almost as if not everyone is going to win all their games during a season.
But they're relevant when we play against those teams. Chelsea gifted us 4 points - should have been 6, pool also gave us 3 points when they had a shit start to the season similar to ours.
If we don't start scoring goals like top teams do next season is gonna be another false dawn like it was under Mourinho and Ole.
That's a big issue with his point, no? Unless you are being sarcastic?
Firstly we won our home games fair and square. No gifts were given. Those were not lucky wins. Us winning our games against them at home is not an anomaly is it? That's not a lucky season.
More shots, more chances, their keeper making more saves is basically the same one stat said three different ways.
Which I agree is where we were better(3 more shots, one more big chance) because Chelsea are absolutely awful at that final pass/shot.
But they yes had more possession, more tackles, won more aerial duels, more corners. I also thought by the eye test they looked stronger and faster than us. They also could have been ahead if they weren't so tragically bad up top. This the worst Chelsea team in 20 years having a horror season.
You don't normally win games 4-1 when the opposition is better in those departments.
This isn't a complaint though. I'm just using this one game as an example of what a strange season this has been for us and therefore maybe an explanation of why there are very different opinions floating around.
Before anybody chucks me into some sort of imaginary anti ETH clan I think he's done really well. It's just been a weird season IMO.
Chelsea were absolute shit man - relegation fodder shit yet they still cause us problems.
Would love to have Mazraoui as AWB's replacement if they do sell. And if he's available, of course.
Insofar as there's any luck involved, it's less that Chelsea/Liverpool were bad (because as the posts above state, our points total is typically enough for top four regardless) and more that we got as many points as we did from our actual level of performances.
Whether you look at the goal tallies (fewest goals scored in the top six, second fewest in the top nine), the underlying stats (6th for xPTS and xGD) or just the eye test, we were generally on the right side of some very tight margins. If we put in this standard of performances every season, more often than not we come away with fewer points. We could improve quite a bit in real terms next season and still finish up in pretty much the same place in the league table.
But as we did manage to do what we did this season, that's only really a problem now if performances don't improve. Plus at least one factor was being spread thin across multiple competitions more than we typically will be.
Whether you look at the goal tallies (fewest goals scored in the top six, second fewest in the top nine), the underlying stats (6th for xPTS and xGD) or just the eye test, we were generally on the right side of some very tight margins. If we put in this standard of performances every season, more often than not we come away with fewer points. We could improve quite a bit in real terms next season and still finish up in pretty much the same place in the league table.
But as we did manage to do what we did this season, that's only really a problem now if performances don't improve. Plus at least one factor was being spread thin across multiple competitions more than we typically will be.
But there are plenty of seasons over the last decade where we've gifted them points. Do you put an asterix next to their finishing positions because of that?
Yeah because we were shit
It is right, unless you can point to more than one occasion in which a team with 75 points missed out on top 4.
The point is that only once has a team achieved 75 points and not made top 4, not the points total of the 4th team.
75 points for example in 17-18 got Liverpool 4th, that’s the point.
There’s 3 seasons in the entire history of the league in which 4 teams achieved more than 75 points.
Arsenal are the only side to ever have 75 points and miss out on top 4.
It's an insane amount of fixtures. Think we'll have 1 or 2 more than city come the end of the season, but with the difference that our squad is more along the lines of a club who isn't prepared for European competitions than it is one who is prepped to go the distance every year, built over 8 years.
Unless you have something to suggest we would have lost all 7 points made against these 2 teams, without making up for them in other games, I really don’t understand your argument.
75 points is actually a very good tally for a top 4 finish, no matter who you’re competing with.
Gotcha. Fair point. I was looking at it slightly different.
So? Us beating them is not an aberration, esp at home, where we have been excellent all season.Chelsea were absolute shit man - relegation fodder shit yet they still cause us problems.
In any case your agenda is clear. I will leave you to it.
There’s certainly a couple of ways to look at it, but it’s undeniable that missing out on top 4 with 75 points would statistically show extreme bad luck, and not the opposite as GifLord was somehow claiming.
Now that's an absolute valid concern, even if there are numerous mitigating circumstances.
We should have been 5-0 up at one point, “problems”.Chelsea were absolute shit man - relegation fodder shit yet they still cause us problems.
Sometimes a boxer will leave himself open to a soft puncher in order to counter punch. Chelsea got battered, framing that as them causing us all sorts of issues is hilarious.
If you want to understand, you need to picture a senseless argument.
Yeah agree.
You look at our goal difference alone. I'd be amazed if you could go back and find a season where +14 gets you third place.
It's been so tight all season. Which in a way is great, it shows we can get results from tight situations. It's a high wire act though and posters can kid themselves all they like that we're willingly giving up possession. We're not. We just don't look after he ball. Until that changes we'll continue to hafe a lot of games that could go either way. Which isn't how you win titles.
But I'm sure ETH knows this and will sort it in the summer one way or another.
Did you miss the fact that we played all season without a regular number 9??
And whose fault is that? Who brought in Weghorst in January?
Or maybe other teams were luckyYeah because we were shit
Let's not pretend we were a good team in the last 10 years.
Chelsea have amassed more than 72 points once during the last 6 seasons. It makes no sense to claim that a team that has 72 points is lucky because a team that has generally not done better wasn't good this season.
Absolutely loved the reaction from the team after securing top 4. Didn't act a fool or like they won a trophy, like the trash at Newcastle. Clapped for the fans, went about business. The mentally is great he instills
Are you aware that Ronaldo left and there was no money available for a replacement? Keep up!
I would say our lows have been really bad. The 7-0, 6-3,4-0. These alone make our GD look average/bad. The problem this season is we have failed to take those half chances to punish teams but have conceded silly goals.
No we were not but we defenitely deserve to be in.top 4 this season. There has been nothing lucky about that given the fact that we have played over 60 games and have been unfortunate with losing key players to injury.
Yeah we’ve won a trophy, likely finished 3rd and made another cup final but if Liverpool, Arsenal, City and Spurs got their highest points totals of the last 20 years this season would we have finished 4th? Piss poor season tbh.
Ten Hag has done an unbelievably good job. He managed to finish 3rd with a very average squad. He made light work of the ego that is Cristiano Ronaldo, he performed miracles to replace some of our very best players. Shaw and Lindelof did excellent in the absence of either Varane or Martinez. He turned Rashford into a capable attacker, he turned Wan Bissaka into a worthy full back, he bought Casemiro, he bought Eriksen who is our first midfield player in ages to be a comfortable passer. He also dropped Maguire without a second thought. He gives Garnacho plenty of opportunity.
Only one of his transfers had a rough season.
Only one of his transfers had a rough season.
It used to be good on here after Utd won to see opposition fans meltdown and then we could rub it in their face.
Now there's a sizeable section of supposed Utd fans who meltdown after we win and it's fun to rub it in their faces.
Now there's a sizeable section of supposed Utd fans who meltdown after we win and it's fun to rub it in their faces.
I'm guessing you mean Anthony? Even that is overstated I reckon. I literally cannot remember when the last time we had genuine attacking threat down that right hand side, and balance across the forward line. he works so hard as well - I don't think it's any coincidence that AWB looks like a different player with Anthony in front of him. For a first season I reckon he's done pretty well, and once his decision making improves we could easily have a winger that contributes double figures of goals and assists
Seen a bit of criticism of Malacia as well, but I'm happy with him too. Aggressive, hard worker, young, cheap. All good (barring the aberration against Sevilla)
I can't wait for that mythical season when every single one of the big 6 clubs have their sh*t together. Then we can all actually praise our club for whatever they achieve.
And they should have been ahead before we scored, and we didn't leave ourselves open deliberately, they carved us open multiple times, that's why ETH told Lindelof to go with Havertz when he dropped deep
Yes Antony, rough season seemed like a good way of describing it. It was not bad, not good. If we had paid 35/40 million for him I would say he is a good squad player.
We definitely overpaid - we paid as much as you would expect to pay for a fully developed top class player and he's clearly not there yet. But the price tag is not his, or ETH's fault. He is a definite upgrade on our right wing options though - and plenty of time to improve further. Salah was a flop at his age too.