also you seem to be saying the cup games are somehow less demanding than league games? Obviously it depends upon the draw, but travelling abroad, playing the likes of Sevilla in a quarter final, or Brighton in a cup semi-final are far more taxing than the vast majority of league games.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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You can go on as you want but playing league games on 9th, 11th and 13th May is not comparable to any scheduling we or anyone in the PL ever had (including this season).
Yeah, I agree with that bit, I just don't agree that it had more of an impact on our league tally than our many many cup games have this year.
I was only referring to the 74 points achieved that season. It is very likely that without the above mentioned circumstances we would have achieved a couple of points more. As far as other fixtures are concerned, well covid seasons were also congested and in 21 we played a EL final after all, so we were hardly just focusing on one competition back then either.
Anyway I am done with this discussion as even with 85 points we wouldn’t have won the league regardless.
He sounds determined and comes across well. The gk position will define him here I feel.
Do you know that ETH is actually older than Pep?
Erik Ten Hag has done ok but how much of that is down to him and how much is that down to Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea having terrible seasons? The true test will be next season when those teams will improve and with the pressure all on Erik Ten Hag especially if he spunks another £150M-£200M up the wall and doesn't improve on this season... questions will rightly be asked.
the expectations next season must be higher.. you can't settle for Top 4 year after year. Not when you sign players like Casemiro who's at the twilight of his career and will need replacing probably after next season. Those are signings for immediate improvement.
I feel like the football has been dire at times this season. And I hope Ten Hag can improve that. Ajax played sexy football under Ten Hag didn't they?
the expectations next season must be higher.. you can't settle for Top 4 year after year. Not when you sign players like Casemiro who's at the twilight of his career and will need replacing probably after next season. Those are signings for immediate improvement.
I feel like the football has been dire at times this season. And I hope Ten Hag can improve that. Ajax played sexy football under Ten Hag didn't they?
and?
And balder
75 points would have had us in the top 4 in most Premier League seasons.
And you didn't answer the question.
Anyway, if you didn't know it, you learned it now!
I know his older. Why is that important?
Winning winnable games one after the other is not a given. We've learned that in the last ten years.
For obvious reasons. Even if ETH works for 20 more years (he will be 73, SAF retired when he was 71) and Pep wins very little in the future (hopefully) ... for the vast majority of fans worldwide, Pep would still be considered the better manager with the better career.
We all want ETH to become very successful with us. But at this point, we should not compare him to Pep, he is too far behind to be considered at a similar level.
Thats not good enough for the mighty Manchester United. Ole got Top 4.
Again, I am not talking about silverware and honours. They both got that, obviously Pep more than EtH. I am saying that in my opinion EtH is a elite manager. He got something special.
I am talking about right now. If we are going to talk only about who got most silverware and honours to judge, well then obviously it’s Pep who is the best.
Let us stay in the present and see what Erik can do. With the right backing I think we are really going to kick off and challenge City.
You know this will always be true, right? There are now 7 clubs in the Premier league for whom a failure to finish top 4 represents a "terrible season". You can say the same thing about every 3rd or 4th place team every season, because by definition a minimum of 3 of the top 7 will miss out on top 4 every season. It's a meaningless assertion.
What is your argument, anyways? That if he wastes an entire transfer budget on players who turn out to be crap that he'll be fired? Do you think this is insightful commentary?
I feel like the people who aren't massively impressed by ten Hag forgot just how shocking we we're at the end of Rangnick's tenure. Many people on here were saying it was the worst United side they'd ever seen, worse even than we were under Moyes.
I am sorry, but this makes no sense. EtH and Pep can be compared, but you cannot compare Pep with Sir Alex or EtH with Sir Alex, for one simple reason: the management style of Sir Alex, Brian Clough, Ron Atkinson etc. etc. would just not be permitted now.
Players have all the power and in society in general 'bullying' is a big no-no. Do you think EtH could turn up at a house party and pull Garnacho out and give him a telling off! Could Pep turn up at Jack Grealish's pad and tell him to turn the music down and get rid of all the supermodels?
We live in different times. I sometimes watch The Big Match revisited on ITV4 - football from way back, the pitches - the athleticism (of most of the players) and the whole way the game is run is so different from what we see today and just as the pitches have changed, so has management.
Someone asked recently on their website (bluemoon) what would happen if by some trick of time the 1968 Man City could play the 2023 Man City and most people said it would be a massive victory for the current team. Then someone added: what if half the game was played in 1960s conditions, with 1960s refs and no VAR and at half-time things swapped. Suddenly people said.... ah it might be 4:4!
I wonder what the result would be if a game could be played between 1968 United and 2023 United!
One thing everyone agreed - there are a few, a very few of the historic players who could hold their own in a game today. Probably Colin Bell for them and George Best for your team.
To conclude, yesterday Pep was in tears on the pitch as if the FA Cup just won was the first thing he had ever won. Would Sir Alex or any of the other hard men from back in the day let their emotions be seen worldwide? I don't think so.
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Feels like forever ago. At that point I thought we were in disrepair and we would slide to top half mediocrity - ETH basically saved us from getting to that point.
I think we see many examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect and hindsight bias from a lot of caf posters.
I think the answer is very little, because the game constantly evolves. The best thing a legend like Ferguson can do is let the manager do his thing and support him.
He is smart enough to do just that.
Without a doubt, I cannot disagree
Your first point is a bit silly and I’ve heard this type of comment elsewhere too. When has there ever been a season where all the big 6 teams have had “non-terrible” seasons?
75 points is a good points total for what we expected at the start of the season, where our aim was top 4. Below is where 75 points would get you in the past 5 seasons:
21/22 = 3rd
20/21 = 2nd
19/20 = 3rd
18/19 = 3rd
17/18 = 4th
We earned top 4 fair and square, and comfortably in the end. To say it was down to others being terrible is not fair on us or ETH.
I agree, next season will be big test for him if he is backed with that level of funds. This season, we’ve largely improved the way we play and we’re a better team to watch (it couldn’t have got worse tbh). I believe ETH adapted his plan early on after realising he couldn’t come straight in and start playing like Ajax. The squad simply wasn’t technical enough and it was too big a change to make. Also with the fixture schedule and games coming thick and fast, and a World Cup mid-season, there was restricted time on the training ground to develop our play throughout the season. With how far we went in the cups ETH rightly stuck with a winning formula, even if it’s not exactly his long-term vision for how he wants to play.
I’m very confident with another full pre-season, more technical players added and less technical players sold (Maguire, Fred, McTominay, AWB? De Gea?) and ideally our main signings wrapped up before August for once, we’ll see a big change this year and dominate games better.
Again I agree, simply competing for top 4 is not enough and there will be an expectation to be in a closer title challenge next year with similar performances in the cups. Especially as you say with signings like Casemiro, we need to capitalise and go up a gear next year.
Overall I agree with what you say, apart from the comment about us being lucky to get top 4… We earned it. Bring on next season!
And Jesse Lingard’s older than them both. Put together.
This season we played midweek fixtures for 5 months straight as well as a winter World Cup. There is absolutely no comparison.
I reckon the 2023 will shade it, considering the fact the players of the 1968 team are close to or over 80. Or dead.
@mods he's back again. This time as a Sevilla fan but still the exact same posting style.
Pep may have a decent sized chunk of his trophies wiped off (or at the very least have an asterisk against them) before too long.
This kind of delusion is why rival fans laugh at us. You will never find any neutral in world football that even considers such comparison as reasonable to begin with.
Who's back?@mods he's back again. This time as a Sevilla fan but still the exact same posting style.
Delusion because I see something special in our manager? You must be a really entertaining person to be around
For me, the priority next season is become closer to city and be a lot more comfortable in the top 4. If we can do that and win another trophy (even if that's the EFL Cup) that's definite progress.
As I said, we're not that far off. A good Premier League striker gets us at least 8 more points this season. Whether we can sign one is another question.
We've made good progress this season and we've over achieved. Now the focus must be to build on that progress and build a solid squad over the transfer window in preparation for next season.
He's had like 5 accounts on here in the last year. I believe his last one was TigerSam.
Due to the 115 charges or the inevitable PED scandal?
I mean, let's hope both!Due to the 115 charges or the inevitable PED scandal?
Of course you can make such comparisons. That's kind of how they work. I can compare Messi and McT and say Messi is the better footballer. I can compare Fergie and Moyes and say Fergie is the better manager. What you probably mean is that one shouldn't *equate* Pep with ETH at the moment and sure. But I don't see where the poster you're responding to did that. Plus if rival fans bother you so much, might I suggest a little less time on blue moon and rawk?
Have you ever seen that comparison debated? If not why not?
1 of ETH weaknesses are his subs and bringing them on to late. If Garnacho comes on at halve time when it’s 1-1 I think we have a chance of winning that game. He made us look different and was a threat.