Lost on xg again.
Which is now more important than the actual scoreline, because it shows what the real score should have been.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Which is now more important than the actual scoreline, because it shows what the real score should have been.
The club must return 2 of our 3 CLs since in 99 and 08 finals we were clearly outplayed.
Embarrassing from us to celebrate those trophies.
Don't care if they wiped it with City. Fact is, Ten Haag needs to have good performances. If he hadn't had so many poor ones prior, we won't be looking as closely at this game against Villa.
My contention is, these fans clamouring for more time. If he stays and United suck, do not blame the players, these fans won't have the right. Same as the club.
If you can't say the players played well today, then you cannot say Ten Haag did well. If you want to sell and bring in new players, you cannot keep Ten Haag.
I'm sorry, but I can't be convinced that Rashford is a bad player. Or that Hojlund and Garnacho are playing terrible football. Or that Bruno is a poor player. Or that Casemiro can't hold in midfield. Or that Varane and Maguire can't defend. Or that Luke Shaw is terrible. This is what fans are saying when they are telling us to wait till the summer. Their saying we shouldn't expect to outplay most teams. We shouldn't expect a higher goal difference.
This isn't Ole with Dan James, Lingard, Fred, Pereira, Williams and Mctominay starting. This team has surefire quality that this current manager can't use. He's telling us that he needs exactly what he want throughout the team to be able to play exactly the way he wants to play, without his football currently being displayed showing any signs of being successful. We aren't creating chances, we aren't controlling games, we aren't set up well defensively, we aren't strong on set pieces, we don't play well direct and we don't build up play well. We see this in every game, rely on good individual play from some of these players, then tell everyone that we need better ones to do better. Watch this game, why were Villa able to progress the ball far more easily than us. Why were their players constantly well positioned and able to have easier options available to them in the pass and to beat the press. It's tactical, its poor shape and poor movement ( for United, a bit too much movement at a slow pace).
Why critcize after a win? Because that's what top teams do when the system isn't convincing. Poor teams are simply happy to take wins. Top teams analyze performances so they can make these wins more sustainable, comfortable and frequent. Do we want Europa league football or do we want to challenge/win the premier league? Does this performance show us that Ten Haag has the capacity to do that? Do we have time to waste on a manager who in 18 months hasn't shown that capacity? Criticism when we win is needed, as we shouldn't have to wait until when we lose to see problems with players and the manager. You can't talk about structures in the club and the proactivity it can bring, yet not analyze games and think of proactive measures. United as a club isn't built to simply hang on to any manager until his time seems untenable. United should be playing good, consistent football leading to wins....and anyone who comes in the way/can't produce that has to go.
Yeh I agree with you there, but that happened in the second half when Shaw went off and Lindelof was having a mare on that side for the first part of the half. I think if Shaw had stayed on we would've played better and possibly won more easily.
After this last run of games, he has earned the right to see the season out and try for Top 4. Unfortunately, the football remains incredibly dull and passive, and we just can't control a game against anyone. We are always dancing on the edge. This is not what I was looking forward to when hiring a new manager.
Oh for sure, got caught out of position directly leading to goals more than once, poor passes etc.
Christ, standards & expectations really are at an all time low
@mu4c_20le why do you say that?
Have to be honest and say it's great that Ten Hag and the team have managed to get the points from a series of tough games.
Mainoo has made a massive difference, Hojlund is scoring and Garnacho is starting to look the star of the team. That's three players under the age of 22 and Ten Hag trusts them enough to make them starters and it's made a difference so credit where it's due for that.
We're winning games again and scoring goals so I'm happy with that improvement.
The only complaint is that any play in our offensive half seems to come from diagonals out to the wide men or quick, direct balls forward.
Now we do score goals from this approach but also give the ball away a lot. We don't seem to have any plan for playing the ball more centrally which is something I think we need to see added or we'll forever be giving the ball away and conceding 20 shots a game.
The defence are doing really well but are being overworked due to the approach and I'm concerned that we'll see repeated injuries due to lots of last ditch defending. Injuries can happen at any time but they are more likely if you're defending for large periods of every game.
Mainoo has made a massive difference, Hojlund is scoring and Garnacho is starting to look the star of the team. That's three players under the age of 22 and Ten Hag trusts them enough to make them starters and it's made a difference so credit where it's due for that.
We're winning games again and scoring goals so I'm happy with that improvement.
The only complaint is that any play in our offensive half seems to come from diagonals out to the wide men or quick, direct balls forward.
Now we do score goals from this approach but also give the ball away a lot. We don't seem to have any plan for playing the ball more centrally which is something I think we need to see added or we'll forever be giving the ball away and conceding 20 shots a game.
The defence are doing really well but are being overworked due to the approach and I'm concerned that we'll see repeated injuries due to lots of last ditch defending. Injuries can happen at any time but they are more likely if you're defending for large periods of every game.
Are you looking to stay 6th? Or can you not see the difference between our level now and in 08/99. We aren't at a level where we can even get there. Part of the reason for this is that personnel, including the manager aren't and haven't been good enough for us to get there. Playing poorly in a final or one game in 99 is different from having these performances every week.
Sigh. Carry on with your excellent snark. Great insights.
Could be a new contract around the corner for Eth
Well, after 1 and 1/2 years, ETH has finally won away against a top side. That is progress I guess?
Wait. We are now 35ish games into the season. You were happy with our positioning and patterns of play and movement when dealing with the high press? Really? Ten Hag has now been at the helm for 96 matches. We’ve had 11 new squad players brought in by Ten Hag in 20 months. There are a handful of matches over the course of Ten Hag’s tenure where I thought we dealt with the high press well. Mostly when Eriksen plays in a midfield 2 with Casemiro. Other than that I don’t see how anyone can look at our performances in this area and be happy.
Yep I can see your point. We do need to get a lot better at controlling games. It does cause additional pressure.
Lost the xG and the possession again. Weekend ruined.
The recruitment has been so bad apart from Hojlund and Onana that it is hard to judge the manager in my opinion. This is where Berrada and INEOS need to change things up, we have zero depth behind our top 12-13 and 2 of our best players have been recent academy graduates. That is the real story here and until that changes I don't think we should be changing the manager (if we recruit well in the summer and the new football team think a different manager will do better then I'm ok with that).
Did you read my very first post in this thread? I literally said we needed luck but it's about time we got some. XG alone is always a bad thing to depend on, it doesn't always tell the whole story (although today a draw was likely a fair result).
I thought I was doing that
I for one can somewhat understand why a few of us are a bit concerned about that game. For example yes we are not controlling games how I would like etc but I can't understand how some of us cannot see the improvement of our performances these past few weeks. Our weak mentality against wolves meant we nearly dropped points but it was probably the first game in a while I enjoyed the football we played. Against West Ham I was amazed we had a comfortable game. Today, whilst yes we could have dropped points, I have to say I felt somewhat comfortable watching it, we have definitely improved and there is some type of team evolving. Obviously I wouldn't be surprised if things turn again on us but if the game went Villas way today we couldn't complain, same way Villa fans can't really complain that we won. Tough game, good three points.
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How many goals have we conceded as a result of poor play from the back and being pressed high?
We are certainly better at playing out from the back. And you're claiming that we were poor today when we weren't. In fact Villa were worse, Hojlund had a great chance from turning over Luiz in the first half.
That could bang
I didn’t and that’s a fair point. It definitely means something to allow an equalizer but score shortly thereafter and hold on for the win. We had some luck and after the really bad luck in the CL this season, we are due some good luck.
I see xG as one stat among many. For anyone who has played the game, a waist high volley opportunity in the 6 yd box with a defender on you vs a strike outside the box with a perfect touch to set up the shot are two very different propositions from a degree of difficulty standpoint. My understanding is xG does not take this into account but rather location of the shot only…. Therefore it is only somewhat useful.
We absolutely were not outplayed in 2008.
We dominated the first half and should've been 3-0 up at HT. Chelsea were better in the second half. We were slightly better in ET.
Nearly on 100 games, with a 60% win percentage. Good going
I need to see a consistent way to attack other than hitting balls over the top for the fast guys to chase. Going to be difficult to gain consistency with that set up, especially when you go back playing multiple games a week.
I was posting in support of you. I was trying to. Wasn't clearI thought I was doing that
Ya thats a strange take. We battered them in first half and their goal was completely against the run of play. Even after that we had good chances and giggs should have won it. That was an excellent chelsea side in a cl final, obviously they were going to have spells of control, but if we lost that final id have felt hard done by.
Mediocrity has set in so deeply at this club that’s it’s slowly become ingrained into fans too. There’s a section of fans that don’t just want us to stay at this level, they actively thrive on it. It gives them the opportunity to play the ‘top red’ card. Defend the team, the club, the manager at all costs. No expectations. No ambition.
Off the top of my head, at least 3 or 4. And add on to that times we’ve given up the ball in our defensive 3rd and given up a good shot. And the times we’ve had to clear the ball out of bounds or directly to the opposing CBs. We’re not good at it mate.
The biggest problem is us being all over the opponent, looking like a top team and then losing our head after we go ahead letting them all the initiative. We absolutely battered Wolves away in the first half, it was insane that we had to rely on last minute Mainoo goal to get us a win. A bit like Jekyll and Hyde type of team during the course of 90 minutes. Even in that infamous 7-0 drubbing by Liverpool we actually played a very good 1st half. Now, I've also seen plenty of games last season where we actually managed to control the game for the full 90 minutes during our best spell (tbf it was against weaker sides, but it did happened - Forest away twice, Leicester and Everton home, etc..)
However, he has to fix this particular problem and us going all passive after taking the lead/looking on top (what killed our CL campaign as well). It is what will make or break him as a manager here. I still believe there is a potentially excellent manager there.
Against Villa, play them over the top all day long. A good manager sets his team up to take advantage of weaknesses.
We draw them in, play through the press or go over the top. I have no issue with it. We didn‘t do it consistently today, and missed Martinez who makes playing out the back way more fluid.
Pep Guardiola is stubborn and got done here.
Our biggest issue today: we need to avoid turning over the ball so often, turning the game into a tennis match and tiring our players out. It is not the same though as dominating possession.
Look, there isn’t a fan that doesn’t want us back on top where we belong. The difference is there is a faction of fans that think we should be there after 18 mo and there are others who feel we need more time to get there. “No expectations and no ambition”. A little over the top there bud.
Thanks mate!
At this point all we can hope for are scrape jobs like today. If we have a better option at season's end let's pursue it but I haven't heard a name that screams upgrade on ten Hag. And no, I don't want to hear about Pochettino or Mourinho.
Be quiet and enjoy a win against a good side away from home.
Honestly, this isn't recent or just setting in. United as a club simply aren't ruthless enough. Their so "loyal" to the point it gullible. The manager isn't your friend, he's an employee. If he can't get a good, high performing system going, he doesn't deserve to be here. Aston Villa should never be a rival. Brighton should never be scary. That's where we are. This is the 2nd win against a top 9 team away that we've had in 2 seasons. Villa came in today favored above us. Yet we have fans celebrating that we didn't lose.
Unimpressed by him again today. We ceded control and didn’t look to create anything for most of the match. Also, there were some very obvious tactical adjustments he neglected to make.
Villa constantly exploited the space between Dalot and Varane. The Hag did nothing to counter this. Also, he did not have a plan to deal with Watkins dropping deep. He was able to do that all day which contributed to them cutting us open time and time again.
Villa constantly exploited the space between Dalot and Varane. The Hag did nothing to counter this. Also, he did not have a plan to deal with Watkins dropping deep. He was able to do that all day which contributed to them cutting us open time and time again.