it's not always as bad as today.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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kudos to him and the players for winning as many games on the trot as they have.
But still, this reminds me of Ole's crazy run of wins in which, after some very nice football at the beginning of his tenure,
we mostly played badly and still won.
I wonder what has changed around the Caf (for the better IMO).
some time ago you couldn't criticize the performance in a game if Utd won.
Everyone who did so was labeled as a doom-n-gloom merchant.
At any rate, it's hard to get well and truly excited. The way we seem to be fine with ceding control of games is really annoying.
I'm happy for Hoijlund though. Seems to be managing the pressure well.
But still, this reminds me of Ole's crazy run of wins in which, after some very nice football at the beginning of his tenure,
we mostly played badly and still won.
I wonder what has changed around the Caf (for the better IMO).
some time ago you couldn't criticize the performance in a game if Utd won.
Everyone who did so was labeled as a doom-n-gloom merchant.
At any rate, it's hard to get well and truly excited. The way we seem to be fine with ceding control of games is really annoying.
I'm happy for Hoijlund though. Seems to be managing the pressure well.
much much worse.
Same sentiments here, hopefully the newly revamped hierarchy make a projection on the basis of the context of the teams performances. It's very good the club picked up three points. However, it's another situation as was the case with Mourinho and Ole, where the managers philosophy is redundantly ineffective so it's now a results driven course as opposed to building something sustainable.
I don't know why everyone is surprised. We have played like this for years and we are good at it. This football was there with Ole and Mourinho. We can win games and get top 4 and win lesser cups like this. Its been proven time and time again. What we need is a manager that can take us up a level. That means controlling games, winning the midfield, scoring more goals, playing out from the back etc etc. Its the same thing fans have been saying for years. If Luton can do it then why can't our players.
Because not working hard has become an acceptable standard at the club before ETH ever set foot in the door. You can’t keep the ball in the Premier League from your heels.
This is what baffles me, it’s clearly visible that there should be alarm bells ringing off at our performances but some choose to dismiss it due to results.
We’re not far off a game like the 7-0 where an opponent is ridiculously efficient in converting their xg and some will still act like it’s an anomaly.
This style is unsustainable and will catch up to us very soon.
Yeah that’s what I fear, because it could then lead to a loss of confidence and then a possible downturn in form. The ease at which teams just stroll into our final third and penalty box is ridiculous.
Ridiculous in game management. He’s now had his favoured team back and the way he’s set the team up is suicide. It’s way too open and we do not even control games. He needs to go.
But apparently we should just accept a win, cant complain and you are not a true red if you dont support ETH. I cant count how many times we have 3v3 situation at the back due to teams passing through our midfield like its a saloon door. We gave other teams shots against our goal like candies on halloween. We are trying to reason with unreasonable people. And before anyone talk shit against me, see my username. I was one of his ardent supporter but this season he's garbage af. He needs to go. Week in week out we play in this same basketball game shit and you people wonder why our players got tired and injured all the time. No other top clubs in this world play this kind of rock and sock em robot style of play. Im no football manager but its so fecking obvious this style of play isnt sustainable at all. Only god knows what ETH is thinking. And his supporters talk like we score 3+ goals per match while playing like this. We barely scores (our GF is literally middle table and the lowest in top 10) and our GD is comically bad
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I mean, this exact thing happened and led to us losing 3-0 to Bournemouth at Old Trafford (where they had that goal ruled out too). We play in a way that is basically a coin flip the way the result will fall, which is why our goal difference is.... +1. Of course, better players will usually beat worse players. But we don't maximize our player advantage over lesser sides and we give them a chance.
To be fair, it's not bad from an entertainment perspective. But it's just not something that lends itself to a promising future.
Unconvincing performance away to Luton Town. Yes we won and I'm relieved, but honestly, surely we should be seeing better from a side like that against that level of opposition. Another difficult game which really shouldn't have been. We created enough where it should have been comfortable, but once again so wasteful.
Just frustrating, I want to believe we're going in the right direction. At least we're not losing every week though!
Just frustrating, I want to believe we're going in the right direction. At least we're not losing every week though!
Good win and good wins lately.
But I'm honestly convinced some of you should follow a different sport if you think these performances are indicative of a top team or that we're making serious progress with our performances lately. Talk of a revival is ludicrous if we judge the whole picture.
We let every team we play against have far too much territory, far too much of the ball, nor do we limit them in our final 3rd while doing so. He's been here 18 months now and we still play end-to-end games vs every single team in the league. We'll never be a top team under ETH. Swap out Rashford for Mbappe and Bruno for De Bruyne(since apparently those 2 are the main culprits) and we'd still play the same brand of football.
He should see out the season, but even if he secures CL football, I'd still sack him honestly. This kind of football isn't sustainable to being a top side.
If someone's going to respond with, "we didn't have Licha today", you're further proving my point.
But I'm honestly convinced some of you should follow a different sport if you think these performances are indicative of a top team or that we're making serious progress with our performances lately. Talk of a revival is ludicrous if we judge the whole picture.
We let every team we play against have far too much territory, far too much of the ball, nor do we limit them in our final 3rd while doing so. He's been here 18 months now and we still play end-to-end games vs every single team in the league. We'll never be a top team under ETH. Swap out Rashford for Mbappe and Bruno for De Bruyne(since apparently those 2 are the main culprits) and we'd still play the same brand of football.
He should see out the season, but even if he secures CL football, I'd still sack him honestly. This kind of football isn't sustainable to being a top side.
If someone's going to respond with, "we didn't have Licha today", you're further proving my point.
Yeh this is the problem for United. Every game is end-to-end where either team can win it. Some games will be like that of course but when I watch you guys, it feels like no matter who the opponent, the game is far too open and you aren't able to control the game. It feels like every game is 50-50 for the entire 90min. Think the most glaring issue is Casemiro is on his last legs and can't cover the ground he needs to. This forces him to make poor tackles and his disciplinary record isn't good. 4 yellow cards in only 12 appearances is pretty poor and may cost you.
We have been 2 up and I thought there is no way this will be an easy game, that never happens under Ten Hag. People are like this season is a problem. It is not, it was the same last year, just players have been in better individual form, especially Rashford, Casemiro and Bruno, and they kept our head above. It is gang ho football, without any control. We can score or build something on counter, but if we lose the ball you can be sure that rivals will be in situation to shoot in no time. In the last season and half this is the worst coached team in the league, and probably in Top 5 leagues (from bigger clubs at least)
Let’s sack Guardiola then for playing the worse I’ve ever seen a team play against Aston Villa. They had 2 shots all game. They had 4 shots all game against Arsenal. They only just beat Luton 2-1. We could have easily scored 5+ goals. Can’t blame the manager for players missing chance after chance. People like you need to go and support a different team. Forever moaning even when we win. We’re the most inform team in the league and ETH has the most win percentage out of any of our managers.
No big side has blown Luton away at Kenilworth Road this season. Their style of play suits playing the bigger teams, see them getting blown out by Sheff Utd, whilst only losing by a goal to City, Liverpool, Arsenal and now us
isn’t the 7-0 an anomaly? Like quite clearly an anomaly.
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I expect we'll find out the hard way against City in a couple of weeks.
What are you trying to suggest that losing 7-0 once in 97 games is an anomaly? You really are a Wumminator. Clearly there’s a pattern here.
They also have 20 points from 24 games and have lost 14 of them. Lie 17th in the table.
Fingers crossed the city game can give you and the chronically miserable ETH out crowd the full release you’ve all been craving since our defeat against Forrest 6 weeks ago. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
the amount of bizarre folk on here itching for us to lose so they can get back to doing what they do best; throughly taking delight in us dropping points.Hopefully we get smashed 8 nil and ten Hag gets sacked and sits at home on a 6 figure monthly salary the bald bastard that'll show him.
Very true. The blue balls posters, pray for them to get some release.It have been like this for long time. I remember it started with Moyes, then vanGaal, then Mourinho, reaching highest peak with Solskjaer, the Rangnick where there were fans here wanting other teams to beat us. No shame, no nothing.
Pathetic couple of posts. We want the club to succeed and understand you don't do that scraping wins at Luton, whilst constantly giving the ball away and giving the opposing. Idiot like you guys are part of the reason we are so shit. The next shiny new (but inevitably poor value) signing and next new manager for the fan boys to pin their colours to and its all great. Its not. INEOS building a football structure, it will take time and there will be mistakes, but its how we compete. Stop wasting money on stupid signings like Antony, Casimero and the rest. I want us to win a match as much as the next person. But then don't whine if City or Liverpool hammer us at the next opportunity. We are miles away from these guys, despite £400m and 18 months of the genuius 'philosophy'. Get some perspective.
And yet here we are. Same dire football and same awful squad, despite being the most expensive in the league. You must be delighted at being 'true' fans, how amazing you are.
We didn't play well after the 1st 15mins but did we end up creating more good opportunities than the likes of City and Liverpool?
Love him and want him to do well but the excuses will start to dry up if we don’t start playing better football. Hopefully he gets next season and a ineos transfer window to showcase what he can do. Third season he will have to do better.
Original response. A real comedian.
You're ignoring the fact every big side has struggled at Kenilworth Road this season. If we had carried on from being 2 up that would be an anomaly.
Ten Hag hasn't been great this season, and I don't think you'll find a fan saying there don't need to be improvements. But to pretend we haven't got better these last few weeks, compared to where we were at when we got spanked off Bournemouth and West Ham is ridiculous.
Bunch of miserable fecks in here.
Performance was shite for 75 mins, but that's still no losses in 2024. I'm of the opinion that grinding out these results and winning the hard way while not playing particularly well is better for the long term.
Performance was shite for 75 mins, but that's still no losses in 2024. I'm of the opinion that grinding out these results and winning the hard way while not playing particularly well is better for the long term.
In the short term, maybe. It's not a sustainable way to win if you continue to play badly for 75 minutes of each game, though.
This has been a theme all season long and even now when we've got a bit of form together, the performances are no different. We were in a comfortable position after 10 minutes yesterday and still conspired to make it into a dogfight to the very end. I think it's fair to question Erik ten Hag in those circumstances. We should be controlling those types of matches.
I'm....not happy with the state of how we play, or convinced by Ten Hag or the majority of our squad. Do you think I'm enjoying what I see these days on the pitch? Not often. That's all very valid what you've said, but maybe you're missing the point, it's the posters who seem to seek out every little thing to moan about and have a I told you so gleeful attitude when we're shit that are bloody exhausting.
No top team has gone there and had it easy.
Theres an awful lot of wrong in this post, but its down to your starting point of "if people dont want ETH sacked, then they are supporting the manager over what the club needs and have low standards". This is why you cant understand why some people arent gunning for his head. I dont know how many times it has to be explained to you, but people have been holding off on ETH because theres been alot going on thats been making his job harder. You can choose to ignore it all and say its "excuses" but its nothing to do with standards, its to do with factoring all the information about our season, not just "look at us in 6th , crap goaldifference, crap XG and/or crap possession and some of you think ETH is great".
I dont see anybody saying the football is great or acceptable. Why are you acting like you can see how much we have been struggling and acting like some fans are delighted with how we play ? You are obsessed with ETH, you are obsessed with him being sacked. After every game you are whining about him, thats obsession, being obsessed with the manager role. And then you project YOUR obsession about the manager on others, as if we are obsessed with keeping him. I am not obsessed with keeping him, I am just not obsessed with sacking him right now.
Ironically , one of the reasons some of us think ETH deserves a crack, at least until the end of the season, is because INEOs are coming in and giving him the kind of supports many of us have been calling out for our managers. Why are you mentioning INEOs ? Do you think they are going to run things better and give our managers a better chance to succeed ? Well doesnt that mean ETH has a better chance to succeed. Apparantly when he was at Ajax , things worked very well with ETH not having control over transfers. One could argue that when he Joined united there was no transfer board/professionals to help him target players (like every other united manager), so its not realy his fault. That said, Hoijland and Martinez havent looked bad, which is a better hit rate then any other manager since 2013.
But the gas thing is that I used to see alot of people say "Woodward/Arnold doesnt pick/coach the team". The Fellaini signing was the canary in the coalmine for me, ever since then our managers and our teams were on a hiding to nothing. The wasted money you are quoting is on the club, not on the manager. You cant think that "INEOs coming in is good" but at the same time think "Our managers keep wasting money", they are contradictory beliefs because the only reason our managers have wasted our budgets is because theres no structure in place and no good people to negiate signings. But this also get to the core of your problem. You think the manager is responsible for most of the issues, a modern day manager should only have to deal with the squad he has and the clubs responsibility is to manage that squad, including squad balance and players in/out . ETH is a coach, not a football manager like Barry Fry. ETH having to get involved as much as he has in transfers is a failure on the club, not a failure on his part. There was no transfer board/people to override him, thats not his fault, it was Arnold/Woodwards fault for not having a proper infrastructure in the first place.
And stop talking like you are seeing something nobody isnt. Everybody can see how we are playing. Everybody can see its been a poor season. ETH is not above criticism and our football hasnt been perfect. But we have explained ad nauseum why we think ETH may be able to bring it back and you keep making inncucurate statements that are basically " I have standards, you dont". No you dont, you want the manager sacked and cant understand why many fans arent as eager as you. Its that simple. For whatever reason, INEOs arent sacking him yet, so if you trust they are bringing in higher standards, you have to trust they have a plan with him and shouldnt be whining after every win.
I have no problem with somebody who thinks ETH should be sacked and is not gonna make it. Just sick of the ones who are relentlessly whiny about it.
I don't think it's fair to question him to the level many posters are, because he hasn't built his team.
He's been working as head of recruitment out of a lack of alternatives more than anything else. I disagree with this narrative peddled by those who want him out that he wants sole control and he's overriding our targets with nonsense ones of his own. The transfers are from him, but it's out of no other alternative given the incompetence of who he is with.
He wants support, he wants structure and he wants to be integrated within that - that's obvious from what he's said and from the fact that he operated successfully with overmars & vds at Ajax. However here he's worked under higherups who essentially dont know if they have a job for the next month since October last year.
Casemiro isn't exactly a scout pick up and obviously wasn't even a Ten Hag choice per say. Eriksen was opportunistic on a free, and then the rest of it is just an amalgamation of bargain basement signings or panic deals - with Onana Hojlund Antony and Mount being the big ticket items.
The result of the above is a squad that only has 1/3rd or maybe 1/2 players capable of playing a fast direct style that Ten Hag is trying to implement. For example, I don't think Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, McTominay suit his style. Casemiro is too old, Shaw is a crock and of course Licha has been injured. Hojlund and Garnacho meanwhile are projects which will take time to grow and develop - he has mentioned the club took a view to focus on them rather than go for ready made talent in the summer specifically due to FFP.
The one thing I really blame Ten Hag for is Antony, and it's incredibly frustrating. But I think every manager is capable of big money mistakes. Heck even Mount was adored by the higher ups at United and they panicked because they were worried about Arsenal or Liverpool getting him.
I believe has a style that would work but it needs more technical prowess and more fitness in the middle to operate. Casemiro needs moving on, we need more full backs and we need another striker. It was well briefed that he needed Hojlund + one more, but it wasn't given for FFP reasons. And he's long wanted a fullback, and only has Malacia as a squad option, also sadly hampered by injury.
You are aware that same Luton won against Brighton, Newcastle at home. Drawing with Liverpool while losing narrowly with one goal against Arsenal, Chelsea, ManCity and Tottenham. But sure, lets win by 7 or 8 goals so our fans get to be delighted.