We can beat them in a one-off game. Will we? Probably not but we are defiantly capable.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It has nothing to do with the structure of Football clubs. Players' physical training isn't separated from the rest, it's one of the responsibility of the coaching staff in fact I should had in most sport it's largely done through tactical and technical drills.
Like I said I'm genuinely dumbfounded if you are being serious.
Just like addressing that set-up that leaves a gaping hole/space in midfield every team has been playing through for like 1.5 years?
I think so too. I honestly think we could have beaten Chelsea who, on their day, are just as wasteful and error prone as we are, but I don't have much faith that this lot could beat City, especially after the cup final performance last year. He's gone.
And what the hell is going on in training with this many injuries? I know Ralf said our squad isn't physically very strong/fit but this is ridiculous.
He is gone. Pepe have his number.
so are chelsea, but not with officiating like that.
His excuses for getting beat tomorrow are all set. Let’s blame injuries again for the gaping hole in midfield. Coventry will have a field day tomorrow and the usual saps on here will back him for another season of torture.
Can’t wait to see the back of him. Which should be first thing on Monday morning after tomorrows defeat.
Can’t wait to see the back of him. Which should be first thing on Monday morning after tomorrows defeat.
So you're just being disingenuous as well as condescending. Superb.
How am I being disingenuous or condescending?
The tone of your posts.
You are also completely missing my point and in a way agreeing with me.
Yup, and another typical response is "make those players run long distances in training as punishment".
I am in no way agreeing with you.
Of course you are.
My whole initial point was that training is more of a collaborative effort amongst a group of people as opposed to one singular person (ETH) deciding how we play.
You just missed that when trying to talk down to me.
See I don't think saying this season has been worse than Moyes is hyperbole.
The results have been just as bad and i actually think the performances have been worse. As awful as the Moyes season was we did have the odd game where we were the better side and won easily. That's barely happened at all this season.
If this season was just generically disappointing then I'd willing to maybe give him another go. But finishing the season with potentially negative GD, our record lowest PL finish, lowest points total, most defeats etc. I'm not expecting us to win the title, just not get regularly outplayed by the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth.
What does that have to do with your point?
The medical department have no involvement in running training.
So as I said I do not agree with you or the point that you are trying to make. And I already explained why.
That's end of discussion then isn't it chief.
To be honest I've suspected that more than once.
ETH is not a totalitarian dictator. I'm fairly sure he and his staff work together and consult the data to inform how the training is run.
Grow up mate.
With the Moyes season you have to take into account the context, he took over the runaway Champions and had them as a laughing stock within half a season. That's easily the worst season we'll have post Fergie short of being in a relegation fight.
Case in point below mate, you often just go off on mad tangents that have nothing to do with what you were originally talking about.
Your original point was about training then you start going on about Ten Hag ignoring the medical staff.
No, that isn't what is going on here pal.
You for whatever reason think I'm attempting to defend ETH. I'm not.
You like this thread being an ETH out echo chamber and cant handle it when anyone doesn't agree with your point of view.
My point is clear regarding there being a difference between blaming him for tactics (which is a completely valid criticism because it's his decision and his decision alone) and blaming him for training (which is a complete guessing game because none of us have a clue of how it's set up, who does what specifically and to what level the intensity is set at).
You are attempting to try and discredit me through sheer whataboutism, and to an extent trying to be insulting. Hence me telling you to grow up.
From now on I just won't respond to you anymore because you couldn't be any more transparent.
I don't really want to get snarky, so I'm not gonna bite this time, but "if we're being honest" is unnecessarily condescending and undermines the idea that you're debating in good faith.
As for his disciplinary measures, I'd say they've been much more successful than previous managers. Ronaldo basically ran roughshod over Ole and Rangnick, Mou had key players in open rebellion, LVG had half a team playing his way and half a team trying to default to a mid block, really we've been governed by player power since Moyes took over. Sancho is gone, as he should be given his behaviour, whereas under any of the previous managers he'd have become a dressing room poison.
Have us playing proactive football, looking like a well drilled team and winning doing so. I'm sure we might have done a bit better going back to the trusty mid block of the past decade, but for me that's a worse option than trying to adopt a new approach, even if we fail at first.
The manager is responsible for training, whether he delegates or not, he is ultimately accountable for ensuring it's fit for purpose. But you already know that
Have you got any specific criticisms of our training and or training methods?
You know, what we're doing wrong etc..
Whoever is manager we don't have a defensive midfielder capable of recycling the ball and controlling the game or a mobile central defense. So we will carry on being bad until that's fixed.
Do the fans that defend Ten Hag find him culpable/responsible for anything, at all?
I see people here excusing him for results/table position, performances, transfers (for which he was adamant in having “decisive” input on), training and adjacent injuries etc. What’s the point of him/What does he do?
I see people here excusing him for results/table position, performances, transfers (for which he was adamant in having “decisive” input on), training and adjacent injuries etc. What’s the point of him/What does he do?
He allegedly disciplines players.
I'm not sure what you have seen from him that suggests he does this.
His tactical approaches are clearly his own machinations. No analyst is going to tell him to leave the middle open. In regards to transfers he has reportedly held out for his own targets and rejected alternatives. The athletic described it as an unprecedented level of control at the club since Fergie. He has supposedly ignored advice on squad management from our Real Madrid guys, banished Sancho for not apologising, benches players for being a few minutes late, and he has reportedly ignored player concerns about intensity of training. He is notoriously stubborn - known for it both here and in Holland.
Everything points towards a man with an authoritative leadership style who doesn't really take that much advice.
The thing is, that sort of leadership style is the most common reason for poor communication between the medical department and the coaching staff.
He is only responsible for games we win. Rest of the time, it’s the fault of the players, the staff, the lighting in stadium, the uncut grass, the tea lady, the direction of the wind, every random thing but him. Poor sod is paid to just shine his head according to his ****.
He's responsible for absolutely nothing. But at the same time we can't sack him, because his genius is the only thing holding the club together.
Indeed. They essentially argue that the man in charge of the entire first team, is not responsible for most of what goes on in the first team.
It's like arguing with a flat earther. The nonsense is off the scale
I think you make fair points in regards to some of those examples. I see most of them as setting the standard rather than being downright stubborn.
If he was just as intense and stubborn at Ajax then why did they not have comparable levels of injury?
Is it possible that our squad is just made up of or built around key players that are just totally not up to the level physically or are somewhat injury prone. Casemiro, Varane, Shaw etc.
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Well I didn't actually say you were trying to defend Ten Hag, but whatever. All I said is you go off on mad tangents. And I didn't actually accuse you of trolling either. I simply said I've suspected it. If you tell me you are not OK fair enough I'll take you at your word.
I will say though you do seem to be overreacting just a tad.
Great way to save us 10m, g'wan Sir Jim!