Evans/Cisse - Spitgate

[bishblaize]

The real problem here is that it's not a "man's" offence. If you commit a "man's" offence in football then that's okay, because "'you're a man". Punching, high tackles, elbows. Manly.

Spitting, along with hair pulling, pinching, scratching and talking about people behind their back, on the other hand, aren't what "real men" do. And because they breach the unwritten man-code of football, they cause far more outrage.

Which is the rationale that gives 6+ match bans for spitting and only 3 match bans for lamping someone in the face, when in the real world nothing would happen to you for the former, but you could end up in prison for the latter.

 

[Player Red]

I think there's a big element of doubt as to whether he spat in Cisse's direction or on the ground between them. He's being judged on a 2D image shot from a long way away. Almost impossible to be certain what sort of trajectory the spit took out of his mouth. My personal inclination is to give him the benefit of any doubt. Particularly for a player who doesn't have any previous.

I'm not too fussed whether or not anyone thinks a ban is merited. What bothers me is the barely contained relish with which a lot of posters are talking about lengthy bans. I suspect those sort of comments would be notably absent if it was certain other members of our squad in the same situation.

Hopefully, and most likely, the club will have shots of all angles. Would be good if one side on shows some distance between them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm looking forward to the first lengthy ban for talking about someone behind their back. Probably be someone at Arsenal saying Wazza's hair transplant doesn't look very realistic.

 

[Kag]

I think there's a big element of doubt as to whether he spat in Cisse's direction or on the ground between them. He's being judged on a 2D image shot from a long way away. Almost impossible to be certain what sort of trajectory the spit took out of his mouth. My personal inclination is to give him the benefit of any doubt. Particularly for a player who doesn't have any previous.

I'm not too fussed whether or not anyone thinks a ban is merited. What bothers me is the barely contained relish with which a lot of posters are talking about lengthy bans. I suspect those sort of comments would be notably absent if it was certain other members of our squad in the same situation.

It looks like quite clear cut to me. He could have spat anywhere at any time, but decided to do it within feet of the guy that just kicked out at him in anger.

I'm struggling to give him any benefit of the doubt. Plus it was enough to provoke Cisse to spit back, and he isn't a player I would usually associate with that kind of behaviour either.

You're right that people are less bothered about it being Evans that spat. A few people seem strangely pleased and are best ignored. But if we're all honest with ourselves, I'd rather it Evans than Rooney or De Gea.

 

[Kostur]

I'm a bit on a fence with this one, given that they both did spit on each other. Both should be banned, that's for sure, 6-7 games seems a tad long although I don't feel particularly mad at the length, biggest problem for me is that potential leg breakers get lighter punishment if any. Just doesn't make any fecking sense to me that.

 

[Dans]

I saw it live, saw the replays, looked at the gif again, I still don't think he was spitting at Cisse, although the action of spitting near him is pretty bad, and he will probably be punished if they charge Cisse. He spat out of instinct as he was getting up, like most footballers do. He wasn't thinking, but he also wasn't intentionally being nasty.

Only Evans knows whether he did it maliciously. Speculate all you like.

My guess is he was angry at the challenge and spat to the ground but not at Cisse. It looks like it was a reaction, and not simply a case of having a lot of phlegm to rid himself of at that particular time. But, I am guessing, based on the look on his face (which I think is exactly what the FA will do). I think he'll be banned.

 

[Ananke]

The media has blown it way up as usual I guess. Yesterday I had sky sports news on whilst working...every minute they were showing the incident. The talk of ten match bans and it being equal to racism, very cringeworthy.

Considering past spitting incidents, players spitting into the fans, at referees etc. They were mostly 3-4 matches with fines issued from clubs. 6 games for retaliation spitting does seem silly actually.

 

[Acole9]

Evans has embarrassed not only himself but the club with his lies.

 

[drdoityourself]

Evans will probably go down for this particular spat about who spat, even though he probably wasn't trying to spit on him, he spat in his direction and Cisse certainly interpreted it as a saliva attack. Just when he looked better and more confident he'll probably sit out almost the rest of the season if FA are them usual selves. (There were 4 spits in this post, I could get a lenghty ban).

 

[Ananke]

You've got to love the subtlety of cisse's spit though

 

[The Purley King]

If he spat on the ground and cameras show it doesn't hit Cisse then what? People still want him banned?

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

If he spat on the ground and cameras show it doesn't hit Cisse then what? People still want him banned?

No, you'd have to start banning a lot of players, if spitting on the ground is a bannable offence!

 

[Steven Seagull]

He did spit on the floor didn't he? The spit didn't seem to hit Cisse so I'm assuming that it hit the floor

I don't know exactly where the spit landed, but it was very much aimed in the direction on Cisse who was very close to him. Not much floor to be aiming his spit at.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

If he spat on the ground and cameras show it doesn't hit Cisse then what? People still want him banned?

They would expect a public apology for tarnishing the hallowed field of St James Park where great moments like Lee Bowyer and Kieron Dyer duking it out received less notoriety.

 

[Cheesy]

I don't know exactly where the spit landed, but it was very much aimed in the direction on Cisse who was very close to him. Not much floor to be aiming his spit at.

Yep, I'd agree. He kind of retains eye contact with Cisse throughout the whole thing as well.

 

[drdoityourself]

This thread makes me want a new dose of Seinfeld.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Yep, I'd agree. He kind of retains eye contact with Cisse throughout the whole thing as well.

My own interpretation was he was trying to act menacing and spat on the floor. I could be wrong but if that interpretation is right, no chance he deserves 6 match ban because of it though.

 

[Cheesy]

My own interpretation was he was trying to act menacing and spat on the floor. I could be wrong but if that interpretation is right, no chance he deserves 6 match ban because of it though.

I don't know, I mean he kind of just looks at Cisse throughout the whole thing, then spits in his direction. Perhaps he meant to spit at the floor, but it's a hard claim to believe when the video evidence kind of makes it look like he just plain spat at him.

 

[Speak]

My own interpretation was he was trying to act menacing and spat on the floor. I could be wrong but if that interpretation is right, no chance he deserves 6 match ban because of it though.

This is what it looks like to me too. His body language indicates he was a little scared, so the spitting on the floor was a 'menacing' act.
Plus Evans just spits a lot.

 

[Dr Fink]

Anyone who plays football knows you spit a lot on the field, almost after everything - a tackle, a drink, a sprint. Evans was spitting out of habit after the incident. No intent in my opinion by his body language and facial expression.

 

[Cheesy]

This is what it looks like to me too. His body language indicates he was a little scared, so the spitting on the floor was a 'menacing' act.
Plus Evans just spits a lot.

Scared of what?

Anyone who plays football knows you spit a lot on the field, almost after everything - a tackle, a drink, a sprint. Evans was spitting out of habit after the incident. No intent in my opinion by his body language and facial expression.

Of course players spit...but not at other players. Even if his body language/face doesn't suggest intent, he never took his eyes off of Cisse for the entire incident.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

The reality is we don't know whether or not it was intentional, and we never will. But I'd imagine he'll receive his ban, the video evidence is pretty damning.

 

[Speak]

Scared of what?

The way he veers away and raises his hands as Cisse's getting up. He looked worried, as if he quickly realised Cisse was about to confront him. I think the spit was aimed at the floor as a sort of 'hardman' act, and also just out of habit.

Either way, he's about to get a ban. So it doesn't matter.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Ban all llamas!

 

[Cheesy]

The way he veers away as Cisse's getting up, and raises his hands. He looked worried, as if he quickly realised Cisse was about to confront him. I think the spit was aimed at the floor as a sort of 'hardman' act and also just out on habit.

Either way, he's about to get a ban. So it doesn't matter.

Well yeah, but none of that suggests he didn't spit at him, or that he didn't mean to. Of course you'd be concerned if you thought Cisse was going to retaliate.

 

[Barca84]

I think there's a big element of doubt as to whether he spat in Cisse's direction or on the ground between them. He's being judged on a 2D image shot from a long way away. Almost impossible to be certain what sort of trajectory the spit took out of his mouth. My personal inclination is to give him the benefit of any doubt. Particularly for a player who doesn't have any previous.

I'm not too fussed whether or not anyone thinks a ban is merited. What bothers me is the barely contained relish with which a lot of posters are talking about lengthy bans. I suspect those sort of comments would be notably absent if it was certain other members of our squad in the same situation.

Well, exactly. But this is Jonny Evans we're talking about. At the club since he was a kid. United through and through but, crucially, not an expensive foreign import. So feck him, basically. Hopefully he's banned for life.

There's a pro Evans camp and an anti Evans camp same as with just about everyone else in the squad. Seems to me some folk get all mard when it's a fellow countryman who is getting it in the neck but Evans has blotted his copybook too much playing wise to get huge amounts of sympathy off most folk. It speaks volumes about him, not posters here, that fans would happily see him banned and taken out of the line up - that's how far his stock has fallen.

 

[Speak]

Well yeah, but none of that suggests he didn't spit at him, or that he didn't mean to. Of course you'd be concerned if you thought Cisse was going to retaliate.

I guess only he knows. I think he just spits a lot out of habit, personally.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There's a pro Evans camp and an anti Evans camp same as with just about everyone else in the squad. Seems to me some folk get all mard when it's a fellow countryman who is getting it in the neck but Evans has blotted his copybook too much playing wise to get huge amounts of sympathy off most folk. It speaks volumes about him, not posters here, that fans would happily see him banned and taken out of the line up - that's how far his stock has fallen.

How'd you figure that out? You know I'm not the same nationality as him, right?

Regarding his performances on the pitch he's one of many who haven't been good enough this season but he's been excellent in the past and the Newcastle game was his best performance in a long time. Just seems ridiculous for any United fan to be pleased about him being banned in this context. It's not as though the rest of our central defenders have been consistently top drawer.

Not to mention that being pleased about ANY United player being banned is fecking stupid IMHO.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Of course players spit...but not at other players. Even if his body language/face doesn't suggest intent, he never took his eyes off of Cisse for the entire incident.

Chances are he was all set to spit then Cisse kicked out, so the spit ended up coinciding with a hard stare at Cisse. And it's obviously difficult to stare and spit in two different directions at the same time.

 

[Sassy Colin]

It's got the Sun excited anyway:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/415376/spor...ed-balls-the-sun-shines-on-jonny-evans.html/?

 

[Someone]

The whole thing is ridiculous, it's worth 1 game ban maximum. Who comes up with these crazy punishments? And i don't get why are they so eager to ban players, why not hit them where it hurts, financially, instead of punishing the clubs that pay their wages.

 

[Cheesy]

Chances are he was all set to spit then Cisse kicked out, so the spit ended up coinciding with a hard stare at Cisse. And it's obviously difficult to stare and spit in two different directions at the same time.

Potentially, although the assertion of Evans' defendants in the thread seems to generally be that he was just spitting at the ground. If that was the case, why does he maintain eye contact with Cisse himself? I'd like to believe Evans since he generally comes across as a decent enough person, but I'm leaning to him just spitting at Cisse in the heat of the moment, with Cisse retaliating for largely the same reason.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Scared of what?

Of course players spit...but not at other players. Even if his body language/face doesn't suggest intent, he never took his eyes off of Cisse for the entire incident.

Scholes' analysis

If you study the footage again you will see that, after Cissé kicks out, and Evans responds, it is the United defender who gets up first. As he does so he is watching Cissé, probably because he suspects that his opponent is still angry and might go for him one more time. You get that impression because both Jonny’s hands momentarily come up as if he is preparing to push Cissé away again, or at least defend himself.

As Jonny gets up and takes a step backwards, he spits. At the time his eyes are fixed on Cissé, for the reasons mentioned above, and that is what makes it look bad. But my instinct is that Jonny is spitting to the floor. It is a reflex. Footballers, athletes in all sorts of sports, have a tendency to spit in the periods of respite after action. You can do it without even thinking. I know that I did, as a player. On this occasion, I believe it was a reflex action from Jonny. Not one aimed at Cissé.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Potentially, although the assertion of Evans' defendants in the thread seems to generally be that he was just spitting at the ground. If that was the case, why does he maintain eye contact with Cisse himself? I'd like to believe Evans since he generally comes across as a decent enough person, but I'm leaning to him just spitting at Cisse in the heat of the moment, with Cisse retaliating for largely the same reason.

Like I said, he we staring at him because he was pissed off with him. He just happened to do it while spitting (on the ground)

With the evidence we have, I don't think anyone can be certain exactly what happened (never mind the intent behind it) and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Basically, what Scholes said.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Think the reason he maintained eye contact with Cisse was as simple as Evans trying to be the hard man. I think that's the thing he is guilty of, not being a toady cnut.

 

[Speak]

Scholes' analysis

Exactly how I see it. he stares at him while raising his hands, because (a) he's pissed off with him and (b) he's slightly scared (as evidenced by his hand movements and backing away.)

Footballers spit, and Evans, in particular - I've noticed, does it more than most. The fact that he was looking at Cisse that way while also spitting is just how it panned out. Unfortunately it'll cost him. Arguably it could end up costing him his job at Untied.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I wont complain if he gets banned, because it looks really bad and he obviously wasn't thinking straight at the time, spitting so near the guy. But I definitely do not agree with the claims that he is lying. IMO that is far worse than the spit itself, which could have been branded as a heat in the moment thing.

 

[Cheesy]

Like I said, he we staring at him because he was pissed off with him. He just happened to do it while spitting (on the ground)

With the evidence we have, I don't think anyone can be certain exactly what happened (never mind the intent behind it) and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Fair enough, although the evidence remains fairly damning.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Exactly how I see it. he stares at him while raising his hands, because (a) he's pissed off with him and (b) he's slightly scared (as evidenced by his hand movements and backing away.)

Footballers spit, and Evans, in particular - I've noticed, does it more than most. The fact that he was looking at Cisse that way while also spitting is just how it panned out. Unfortunately it'll cost him. Arguably it could end up costing him his job at Untied.

Yes I already thought he was likely to be a goner in the summer, add a 6 match ban with 11 games to go (and at least one cup tie), it's not looking too good.