F1 2022 Season

Gringo

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Controversial post coming up... Max is good but is he great.. How can LeClerc have more poles than him over their careers :wenger:

We forget Seb won 4 World titles and dominated an era but even that isn't enough for the majority to place amongst the greats.
 

Carl

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Gringo said:
Controversial post coming up... Max is good but is he great.. How can LeClerc have more poles than him over their careers :wenger:

We forget Seb won 4 World titles and dominated an era but even that isn't enough for the majority to place amongst the greats.
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Time will tell if he's great. Impossible to say now but he has everything needed for it.
 

Kanu

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Gringo said:
Controversial post coming up... Max is good but is he great.. How can LeClerc have more poles than him over their careers :wenger:

We forget Seb won 4 World titles and dominated an era but even that isn't enough for the majority to place amongst the greats.
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How many wins does Leclerc have with his poles? Max is on 25 already. I think that's more important. Leclerc is the better qualifier, though I have to admit. I think Charles is easily the best qualifier on the grid. I don't think he's as good race pace wise or in the wet. Charles also still has to prove himself under championship pressure. It seems like Ferrari won't be able to compete this year so we will have to wait.

Your 2nd point is a good one. Although I'm willing to bet by the end of both careers, Max will be clear of Vettel and will be in the Hamilton, Schumacher tier.
 

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Gringo said:
Controversial post coming up... Max is good but is he great.. How can LeClerc have more poles than him over their careers :wenger:

We forget Seb won 4 World titles and dominated an era but even that isn't enough for the majority to place amongst the greats.
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I'd say Leclerc is easily the best driver this year, if he was driving Red Bull he would be ahead.

I said even on the beggining of the season that Ferrari is slower than Red Bull when many argued they have similar cars, it's just the qualifying where they show their pace(and even there he is much faster than Sainz) but they are regulary slower in the race, plus they are unreliable.
 

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Amar__ said:
I'd say Leclerc is easily the best driver this year, if he was driving Red Bull he would be ahead.

I said even on the beggining of the season that Ferrari is slower than Red Bull when many argued they have similar cars, it's just the qualifying where they show their pace(and even there he is much faster than Sainz) but they are regulary slower in the race, plus they are unreliable.
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Easily :lol:

He's been great this year and I would say on par with Max, but come on now.
 

Gringo

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sun_tzu said:
Not yet...could be
Little older than Lewis when he won (well was given) his first title
Little younger than Schumacher so plenty of time for him to win a proper title then who knows he could dominate for a decade
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It's all very car dependent on whether he dominates in my opinion rather than pound for pound ability. Which can be said for every great driver yes, but the greats have stand out performances when against the odds (Lewis in Turkey). I want to see some memorable drives from Max.

Kanu said:
How many wins does Leclerc have with his poles? Max is on 25 already. I think that's more important. Leclerc is the better qualifier, though I have to admit. I think Charles is easily the best qualifier on the grid. I don't think he's as good race pace wise or in the wet. Charles also still has to prove himself under championship pressure. It seems like Ferrari won't be able to compete this year so we will have to wait.

Your 2nd point is a good one. Although I'm willing to bet by the end of both careers, Max will be clear of Vettel and will be in the Hamilton, Schumacher tier.
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Leclerc hasn't been converting those poles to wins not necessarily because he's a worse driver. Hooking up one lap requires a different set of skills to a race distance. One thing I agree with you is Max has the experience of driving under pressure now. If Lando and George can get into fast cars it's gonna be amazing seeing them battle Max.
 

Kanu

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Gringo said:
Leclerc hasn't been converting those poles to wins not necessarily because he's a worse driver. Hooking up one lap requires a different set of skills to a race distance. One thing I agree with you is Max has the experience of driving under pressure now. If Lando and George can get into fast cars it's gonna be amazing seeing them battle Max.
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The other way around, you could argue Max hasn't had the cars for qualifying on pole most of his career. Ferrari usually been better on that front.
 

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The Hilton said:
If you take out the Red Bull, which is just a much better car than everyone else's, the rules have done a decent job of stirring things up this season - there's a real battle for "second best team" at the moment, with Ferrari being fast but lacking reliability (and shredding tyres), Mercedes bouncing around like mad but able to finish races to capitalise, and then just behind them are a cluster of teams with McLaren, Alpine, and Alfa duking it out. If I'm right, only Schumacher has no points so far, which is fun.
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Agreed, the ability to follow so much closer without losing 75% of the front wing downforce in the dirty air has made a massive difference.

It will take a number of years for the CFD and wind tunnel scaling to take affect. If all the teams can resolve the porposing and bouncing then the entire spectacle will be so much better.
 

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Carl said:
Time will tell if he's great. Impossible to say now but he has everything needed for it.
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Agreed. He will have seasons where hes in a car not good enough to win championships. Or years were he may win a few titles on the trot. Its so hard to tell in f1. Who'd have thought seb would be stuck at 4 titles after he picked up no4. Or alsonso wouldnt win anymore titles after his 2nd with Renault?

I wonder where max will go next? A few years away yet, but by that time Ferrari, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche (depending on how the latter two enter the sport) could all be realisitic options. I think he will be in a ferrari for his next move.
 

altodevil

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dinostar77 said:
Agreed. He will have seasons where hes in a car not good enough to win championships. Or years were he may win a few titles on the trot. Its so hard to tell in f1. Who'd have thought seb would be stuck at 4 titles after he picked up no4. Or alsonso wouldnt win anymore titles after his 2nd with Renault?

I wonder where max will go next? A few years away yet, but by that time Ferrari, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche (depending on how the latter two enter the sport) could all be realisitic options. I think he will be in a ferrari for his next move.
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If you are Max you stick with Newey.
 

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F-Red said:
Sorry, can’t say I agree with that. The rules haven’t done much to promote great racing which it’s bigged up for two years. Cars can follow to an extent but we’re not seeing the close racing they’d expect.

The longer these regulations are held for then we’ll see the benefit of them in the racing, but we’re miles away from that.
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What they were expecting was that a car should be able to follow another car very closely for lap after lap without having to completely ruin its tires, which is exactly what has happened. I don't really know what you expected but the reason we don't get 10+ cars within 10sec of each other for an entire stint is because F1 isn't a spec racing series with somewhat equal drivers, there's a big difference between the front runners, midfield and back markers, both in terms of equipment and drivers.

You only need to look at the driver pairs in RB and Ferrari to see that even when drivers are given equal cars they are still not following each other around the track like they're stuck together because drivers, tactics, fuel management etcetc comes into play. With that said, you can look at any race so far and see several cars following much, much closer to the car in front for a lot longer and more often compared to previous seasons.
 

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Zlaatan said:
What they were expecting was that a car should be able to follow another car very closely for lap after lap without having to completely ruin its tires, which is exactly what has happened. I don't really know what you expected but the reason we don't get 10+ cars within 10sec of each other for an entire stint is because F1 isn't a spec racing series with somewhat equal drivers, there's a big difference between the front runners, midfield and back markers, both in terms of equipment and drivers.
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We still have an over reliance on DRS to provide the racing and overtakes, everything pitched on these regulations was to promote much closer racing and overtakes without it. I imagine in the next couple of years we'll see some refinement, but the jury is still out for me.
 

laughtersassassin

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Gringo said:
Controversial post coming up... Max is good but is he great.. How can LeClerc have more poles than him over their careers :wenger:

We forget Seb won 4 World titles and dominated an era but even that isn't enough for the majority to place amongst the greats.
Click to expand...
Ferrari 2019 car was great in quali as is their car this year.

Max has also had two good quali cars. Last years being a a stronger quali car than this year's.

Then another thing against your point would be the shear amount of Max wins versus Leclerc. In fact Max has won more races from Leclerc poles than Leclerc has himself.

Race setup and performance is almost always more important than quali anyway. Bar Monaco really.

Max's performances pretty much always get the most out of the car he is given. That's all you can ask from any driver. His consistency since 2020 season has been crazy where he would come second to Bottas who had a vastly superior car.

Max has got top 3 or DNFd in every race bar 2 in the last 3 seasons.

And Hungary he could do nothing about with Bottas destroying half his car.
 
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Dan_F

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F-Red said:
We still have an over reliance on DRS to provide the racing and overtakes, everything pitched on these regulations was to promote much closer racing and overtakes without it. I imagine in the next couple of years we'll see some refinement, but the jury is still out for me.
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I hope you’re right, but I think those days could be gone. Everything the drivers do is completely micro managed from the pits and the data they have access to is so much better. If a driver is losing time on a certain corner, they will be told exactly what to do, what engine mode to use, how to adjust the balance etc.

That’s before you even think about things like all the racing simulation that they have access to now before even stepping into the car, as well as how much stricter the overtaking rules are, and I’m sure there’s a lot more that can be listed.

It’s not to say that the changes won’t help things, I’m sure they will. But it’ll never go back to how it was before these innovations in my opinion.
 

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hobbers said:
He didn't mention anything about food prices as you'd expect.

But it's easier to deliberately misquote him and say food prices, rather than what he actually said which was the rising costs of energy, shipping, and parts. Which obviously teams have no control over. Unlike their car designs and ride heights and suspensions. Which they have complete control over.

The cost cap will end up changed for inflation because every team in the paddock except Haas, AM and one other want it increased. And even those that dont yet will feel differently by September when they've run out of money.
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Steady on. I could have sworn he mentioned food and then caught himself.
 

Zlaatan

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F-Red said:
We still have an over reliance on DRS to provide the racing and overtakes, everything pitched on these regulations was to promote much closer racing and overtakes without it. I imagine in the next couple of years we'll see some refinement, but the jury is still out for me.
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Phasing out DRS was a long term goal and this first season was always going to be an evaluation period to see how things worked, so to say that we're "still" relying on DRS is a bit unfair I think when we're only 8 races into the first season. You have to consider that coming up with a completely new set of regs that fixes everything in an instant while still giving the teams the freedom to build their own car is extremely difficult, especially without any real world testing, so I think we need to give them time to figure things out.
 

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Zlaatan said:
Phasing out DRS was a long term goal and this first season was always going to be an evaluation period to see how things worked, so to say that we're "still" relying on DRS is a bit unfair I think when we're only 8 races into the first season. You have to consider that coming up with a completely new set of regs that fixes everything in an instant while still giving the teams the freedom to build their own car is extremely difficult, especially without any real world testing, so I think we need to give them time to figure things out.
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We are still relying on DRS though, there's no point avoiding the elephant in the room. Ferrari drivers in Saudi Arabia were saying races would be very boring without DRS, although the new regs has given them some more predictability in the corners when racing. Like I said, the jury is still out for me and if we're not seeing improved racing by 2024 then I'll be confident in calling the new regulations a failure in it's objective. As it stands, we're seeing similar racing to 2021 with a shuffle in the pack that new regulations bring, but in terms of the actual racing then it's no change for me. The one saving grace I have in the back of my head is that we've only really been at street circuits so far in the season, once we start getting to the proper dedicated race circuits I'm hopeful the longer sweeping corners (as opposed to the 90 degree corners on street circuits) that those circuits provide might lend itself to some better action.
 

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The key point being ignored here is also the sheer size of these cars. You might think it doesn’t have a big impact outside of circuits like Monoco, but it actually does. Also the lack of overall durability. Knock a tiny part off your wing and you could be losing half a second a lap. And a tiny touch is often enough for that to happen. All of this plays into how drivers race, with a much more overall cautious attitude. Reliance on DRS is as much a function of these factors too, because drivers know if they have any pace advantage, what’s the point in risking it at all at any other part of the track than wait for the DRS zone?

The fact it exists is also why we are over-reliance on it.
 

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rpitroda said:
The key point being ignored here is also the sheer size of these cars. You might think it doesn’t have a big impact outside of circuits like Monoco, but it actually does. Also the lack of overall durability. Knock a tiny part off your wing and you could be losing half a second a lap. And a tiny touch is often enough for that to happen. All of this plays into how drivers race, with a much more overall cautious attitude. Reliance on DRS is as much a function of these factors too, because drivers know if they have any pace advantage, what’s the point in risking it at all at any other part of the track than wait for the DRS zone?

The fact it exists is also why we are over-reliance on it.
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I wonder if they'll test switching it off for a few GPs?
 

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So how far do we think the Haas' will drop today? They don't really have the speed on the straights, and with the likes of Leclerc, Perez and Russell behind them, it is inevitable that they will drop spots. Would love to see them both score points, but my guess would be K-Mag dropping to between 8th and 10th and Mick dropping out of the points.
 

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Jerch said:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/f1/news...=skf1fb&utm_source=FBAUTOFEED&utm_medium=SKF1


... coming from a driver of the team which puts their drivers in worst situation health vise just to gain some performance. How hypocritical...
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Toto was doing the same before, getting spicy because "other teams aren't prioritising health".

Everyone in the paddock knows Merc ran the most dangerous car on the grid in Baku and they did it deliberately because they care more about performance than safety. Dont know who they think they're fooling.
 

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Mike Smalling said:
So how far do we think the Haas' will drop today? They don't really have the speed on the straights, and with the likes of Leclerc, Perez and Russell behind them, it is inevitable that they will drop spots. Would love to see them both score points, but my guess would be K-Mag dropping to between 8th and 10th and Mick dropping out of the points.
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I’d expect the drivers you mentioned to get past. But I don’t think the other teams will breeze past quite that easy. If they race well, manage their tyres, and get a good strategy from their team, I think they’ve both got a great chance of staying in the points. Right at the tail of the points though. It’ll be close.
 
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