F1 2022 Season

[dinostar77]

Hate to say it, but Indy is probably easier to win in than GP2. They also race on ovals which have zero relationship with f1 therefore if he’s winning on those tracks, the points are probably worthless.

Indycar is phasing out ovals. They race on street and track circuits. Also i do think there is a myopic european view and stereotype that indycar is only on ovals and the drivers arent that talented. Indycar is more of a drivers championship than f1. Far more overtaking on track. F1 is a manufacturers championship and this is the route F1 seems to want to encourage.

I dont think the likes of mazaspin or latifi would make the grade there either.

Also some of the top indycar talent, arent interested in coming to f1.

https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/01...-is-more-of-a-drivers-championship-newgarden/

 

[fishfingers15]

Personally, I would have max in tier 3, with potential to go to tier 1 and not include him in any goat conversations. He is a young driver who has plenty to prove with just one championship, and even that was tinged with controversy.

Maybe by the time he retires, he would be a good shout for tier 1.

 

[mariachi-19]

Indycar is phasing out ovals. They race on street and track circuits. Also i do think there is a myopic european view and stereotype that indycar is only on ovals and the drivers arent that talented. Indycar is more of a drivers championship than f1. Far more overtaking on track. F1 is a manufacturers championship and this is the route F1 seems to want to encourage.

I dont think the likes of mazaspin or latifi would make the grade there either.

Also some of the top indycar talent, arent interested in coming to f1.

https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/01...-is-more-of-a-drivers-championship-newgarden/

Make no mistake, if any Indy driver was offered a full time gig, they’d leave in a heart beat.

Sebastian Bourdais when he came over in the mid 2000’s was on track to be one of the best cart/Indy car drivers of all time. He was trash.

The racing is better but the quality is lower.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Personally, I would have max in tier 3, with potential to go to tier 1 and not include him in any goat conversations. He is a young driver who has plenty to prove with just one championship, and even that was tinged with controversy.

Maybe by the time he retires, he would be a good shout for tier 1.

Goat I agree about, but GOAT is so subjective, everybody has their own opinions
I think he deserves being in tier 2, he has proved he is a very good driver.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Just like in football, you cant compare drivers of different eras. In the 1950s the likes of fangio didnt have seatbeats and the done thing when going to crash was to jump out of your car to saftey!

1980s cars had no power steering, manual gearboxes. They required a extrodinary level of brute strength to get them around the track.

Drivers didnt start in f1 their mid to late twenties. Reliability was a joke, engines running at 18,000 rpm regularly blew up. Alan Prost lost a WDC because Renault were to cheap to replace a 38pence part. Which kept failing race after race.

Nelson Piquet didnt feature in the tier list on the other page, but how many drivers have won the WDC with 3 different teams in arguably the greatest era of f1 the 1980s?

If you listen to Beyond the Grid podcast where Tom Arnold, interviews ex-racing drivers of all eras as well as others involved in F1. You realise how many fantastic drivers didnt win a WDC, due to bad luck or they or they were killed. So many f1 drivers died on a regular basis until Senna's death, shocked f1 into action.

For me a tier list personally only works by era of racing. Also a racing driver can be judged by 3 factors;

1) racecraft
2) single lap pace
3) team building

You could for example argue that Alonso is brillant at racecraft, one of the very best of his generation. Single lap pace not the best. Also his team building is poor.

You could take those three metrics and apply them to others. Id say team building was schmachers greatest strength as a driver. He took that to levels not see before, which are now the norm for any f1 driver.

Lewis is sensational over one lap, probably one of the quickest ive seen. His racecraft is very very good, though id say alonso edges that over lewis. Team building wise he is also very good. However not at schmacher level for team building.

I think its too early to judge max, we need to see him at another team to judge his team building. Maybe at ferrari or audi. He has really good single lap pace, his racecraft can only really be judged when he gets older and wiser and is put in more diffcut situations than this season so far.

Excellent post and I agree with most of it, I disagree with the Alonso bit, for me Lewis wins over Alonso hands down.
Piquet was a stunning driver, I had forget he won with 3 different teams, still would nt have him in tier 1, but defiantly in 2.
If Senna had not died would he have had more WDC that Sch and Lewis, He had 5 and was 34 , could he have won another 3 or more, yeah I think so.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Hate to say it, but Indy is probably easier to win in than GP2. They also race on ovals which have zero relationship with f1 therefore if he’s winning on those tracks, the points are probably worthless.

Utter rubbish. It definitely isn't easier to win in Indy than GP2.

Oval racing isn't easy and a particular skill in itself. If it was easy surely Alonso would have won Indy at a canter?

None of Herta's wins have come on an oval. Actually that is where he struggles, he's very good on circuits but his oval racing is bad - which is why he wasn't high enough in the points to get the super licence. All 7 wins have been on circuits.

Couldn't agree more, Indycar gets a lot of hype but the oval tracks are a drivers lottery. F2 has a bit more challenge to it, and there's better drivers than Herta in F2.

F2 can be great but there is always a clear head and shoulders winner, the competition isn't very strong. This year Drugovich absolutely destroyed the field, yet nobody is talking about him having a big future.

Callum Ilott was runner up to Schumacher in f2, has gone from F2 to Indy and not once finished in the top 8. He was 20th overall in the championship this year.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Goat I agree about, but GOAT is so subjective, everybody has their own opinions
I think he deserves being in tier 2, he has proved he is a very good driver.

Agreed with tier 2. Or even a tier 1.5.

For me the only difference between the top two tiers isn't quality. It's just the career they had. The cars they got given and what they have achieved.

So like Max has already proved he has the quality of the tier 1s now it's just a case of how many good cars he gets and that he doesn't regress. His seasons have matched some of Lewis best ones. Statistically equalled Lewis best single season stats as well The battle they had last year was excellent well all things considered.

Other drivers Alonso I'd put in a similar boat that his career could have gone very different and hence why he gets dragged down a bit.

Vettel is an interesting one in that if he had retired after Red Bull then would be automatically Tier 1 but his career stagnated and seemed to regress as a driver so is rightly brought down.
That said I think we can see from this year joining Ferrari these days doesn't do a top driver any favours.

 

[dinostar77]

Oh dear alonso, bribing engineers so to get more support than hamilton (2007).

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/1371...evealed-alonso-handed-out-bribes-in-2007.html

 

[hobbers]

Bribing his own engineers with 1500 euros? Sounds legit.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

 

[dinostar77]

Nooòooooooooooo

 

[pauldyson1uk]

 

[Fully Fledged]

Reminds me of the final stage of the Tour de France.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Nooòooooooooooo

They will never take Monaco off the calendar
Its the Blue Ribbon Race, part of the Moter Racing Triple Crown, but I can see why people don't like it.

 

[gormless]

Oh dear alonso, bribing engineers so to get more support than hamilton (2007).

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/1371...evealed-alonso-handed-out-bribes-in-2007.html

He wrote a reasonably interesting book about his time at McLaren (the mechanic who has “revealed” this). He mentioned it in the book which probably came out a decade ago now

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Don't get why they don't schedule all the middle East races at once, as well as the far east, Europe and the Americas rather than splitting them all at different times.

 

[hp88]

Don't get why they don't schedule all the middle East races at once, as well as the far east, Europe and the Americas rather than splitting them all at different times.

Vegas trying to get in on the title battle, same goes for Abu Dhabi. They will be pissed off this year at's going to be a dead rubber race.

 

[Adam-Utd]

They will never take Monaco off the calendar
Its the Blue Ribbon Race, part of the Moter Racing Triple Crown, but I can see why people don't like it.

People would be happy to keep Monaco if they modernised it, we've talked about it so many times here.

Anyway, it'll probably never change unless attendance/viewing drops off.

 

[Jack-C20]

USA, Mexico and Brazil triple header will be a slog for the teams.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

People would be happy to keep Monaco if they modernised it, we've talked about it so many times here.

Anyway, it'll probably never change unless attendance/viewing drops off.

I agree , there is scope to change the track, but wil they ever do it, thats the question.

 

[vangagal]

Crikey, 24 races. Isnt that bit too much now?
Las Vegas penultimate race, FIA/Liberty must want that as final race battle of WDC but the way this year unfold they are lucky if next year WDC battle drag on until Mexico the latest with Max become champs again. I reckon around Qatar/COTA will be the time Max get his 3rd maybe.
Unless some drastic changes as Ferrari short their shit out and Merc suddenly realised this year car is shite.
Glad Spa still on calendar. Prefer one of Nurburgring/Hockenheimring than Saudi tbh

 

[dinostar77]

He wrote a reasonably interesting book about his time at McLaren (the mechanic who has “revealed” this). He mentioned it in the book which probably came out a decade ago now

I have the book, read it a long time ago. Dont recall that being in there. I maybe mistaken.

 

[dinostar77]

Don't get why they don't schedule all the middle East races at once, as well as the far east, Europe and the Americas rather than splitting them all at different times.

Existing circuit contracts is the issue. It will take years to achieve what you suggest. Which we all think is a good idea. Wont be easy to convince all the gp owners, plus domestic timetablw for said country and politics will play a part.

 

[dinostar77]

They will never take Monaco off the calendar
Its the Blue Ribbon Race, part of the Moter Racing Triple Crown, but I can see why people don't like it.

I know. I hate it. But it wont go away.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Existing circuit contracts is the issue. It will take years to achieve what you suggest. Which we all think is a good idea. Wont be easy to convince all the gp owners, plus domestic timetablw for said country and politics will play a part.

Good post, never actually thought about any of what you posted.

 

[gormless]

I have the book, read it a long time ago. Dont recall that being in there. I maybe mistaken.

Now you’re making me second guess myself!

 

[redshaw]

Wonder if there's an optimum number of races taking in all the factors of the sport and points that lead to more chances of close battle at the end of season. If you have too many then the differences will show more and less likely to swing the other way for a while. The potential of a dnf or two for a lead driver/team and getting caught with a few races to go scenario seems less the more races they stack on. 15-22 might be optimum and a 25-30% number.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Wonder if there's an optimum number of races taking in all the factors of the sport and points that lead to more chances of close battle at the end of season. If you have too many then the differences will show more and less likely to swing the other way for a while. The potential of a dnf or two for a lead driver/team and getting caught with a few races to go scenario seems less the more races they stack on. 15-22 might be optimum and a 25-30% number.

It must be close to Maximum races now.
If they sorted out the calendar, so that all the races were clumped together for each area, they could maybe get a few more in, but do we want more races ?

 

[Robertd0803]

Oh dear alonso, bribing engineers so to get more support than hamilton (2007).

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/1371...evealed-alonso-handed-out-bribes-in-2007.html

Jesus the 2007 season really gets worse with time for Alonso. Was there ever a driver more rattled by his team mate than Alonso that season?

 

[gormless]

Jesus the 2007 season really gets worse with time for Alonso. Was there ever a driver more rattled by his team mate than Alonso that season?

“Multi 21 Seb, multi 21”

 

[Fully Fledged]

To all those who keep saying that Alonso was one of the Goats of the sport why was he never offered a top team position after McLaren stopped being good? Do you think that Merc, RB and Ferrari deliberately hamstrung themselves by not picking such an excellent driver?

 

[Adam-Utd]

To all those who keep saying that Alonso was one of the Goats of the sport why was he never offered a top team position after McLaren stopped being good? Do you think that Merc, RB and Ferrari deliberately hamstrung themselves by not picking such an excellent driver?

Ferrari did pick after Mclaren?

 

[Fully Fledged]

Ferrari did pick after Mclaren?

I worded that badly I meant after his second stint at McLaren. I did say when McLaren stopped being good they won the championship after he left the first time.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I worded that badly I meant after his second stint at McLaren. I did say when McLaren stopped being good they won the championship after he left the first time.

Think the only worth seats at the time were Mercedes with Hamilton which was never going to happen again, and red bull who had Verstappen/Riccairdo by that point.

Alonso has famously just chosen the wrong moves at the wrong times. He could have easily been a 4/5 time champ with different choices.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Think the only worth seats at the time were Mercedes with Hamilton which was never going to happen again, and red bull who had Verstappen/Riccairdo by that point.

Alonso has famously just chosen the wrong moves at the wrong times. He could have easily been a 4/5 time champ with different choices.

I don't know. There were seasons when Hamilton was at Mercedes where Ferrari were the closest challengers. Even if they didn't challenge they were a far better ride then McLaren.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I don't know. There were seasons when Hamilton was at Mercedes where Ferrari were the closest challengers. Even if they didn't challenge they were a far better ride then McLaren.

Yeah Ferrari weren't bad but they were never the most consistent team. Similarly to now they they managed to mess up any good positions they had.

Ironically as soon as Alonso left, that was when they had their best run in ages - but Vettel couldn't get it done.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Yeah Ferrari weren't bad but they were never the most consistent team. Similarly to now they they managed to mess up any good positions they had.

Ironically as soon as Alonso left, that was when they had their best run in ages - but Vettel couldn't get it done.

Is it any coincidence that Ferrari got better after he left?

 

[Adam-Utd]

Is it any coincidence that Ferrari got better after he left?

Considering it seems to be a pattern in his career - potentially not.

We shall see if the same happens with Alpine.

 

[mariachi-19]

Jesus the 2007 season really gets worse with time for Alonso. Was there ever a driver more rattled by his team mate than Alonso that season?

Schumacher use to hand our watches to his mechanics… bloke was the most dominant driver in F1 history.

Alonso was racing against a McLaren prodigy who was getting favourable treatment from the team when they realised he could keep up with Fernando. He was probably doing what he could to stay on top… ultimately the way the season ended, they should have backed and then sacked him afterwards.

 

[dinostar77]

Schumacher use to hand our watches to his mechanics… bloke was the most dominant driver in F1 history, before lewis broke alot of them in his mercedes.

Alonso was racing against a McLaren prodigy who was getting favourable treatment from the team when they realised he could keep up with Fernando. He was probably doing what he could to stay on top… ultimately the way the season ended, they should have backed and then sacked him afterwards.

Fixed