F1 2022 Season

hobbers

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Someone in RB is leaking info?
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RB didnt hear from the FIA about breaching the cap until Suzuka. This line that the teams were going back and forth with the FIA for months debating their submissions is just a Mercedes fan fiction. AM and RB were genuinely caught by surprise with the news in Singapore that they'd committed breaches.

Someone in the FIA either leaked vague details of submissions and breaches straight to AMuS or it went via Mercedes.
 

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

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hobbers said:
RB didnt hear from the FIA about breaching the cap until Suzuka. This line that the teams were going back and forth with the FIA for months debating their submissions is just a Mercedes fan fiction. AM and RB were genuinely caught by surprise with the news in Singapore that they'd committed breaches.

Someone in the FIA either leaked vague details of submissions and breaches straight to AMuS or it went via Mercedes.
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Binnotto?
 

goalscholes

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Fully Fledged said:
Yeah. The idea that they are offering Red Bull terms and seeing if they are happy with them is crazy.
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I suppose it happens quite a lot, from court cases to football. The issue isn’t that they get given a punishment or else it goes to a panel who can give a harsher/ more lenient penalty.

The issue is the complete lack of speed, transparency and professionalism by the governing body over something which should be extremely clear cut.
 

hobbers

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goalscholes said:
The issue is the complete lack of speed, transparency and professionalism by the governing body over something which should be extremely clear cut.
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Yeah this is it in a nutshell.

When they released the certificates and stated that Red Bull had gone over the cap, the FIA should have said by how much. Said exactly what parts of the submission RB didnt factor into their spend that the FIA disagreed with. And then they should have listed what penalties they propose in the ABA and given a time frame for RB to either agree with it or contest it.

Oh, and all of this should have been done months ago. And without leaking the details to third parties.
 

hobbers

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Took Giovinazzi 5 minutes to Mick Schumacher it.

Also both Ferraris will have 10+ grid place penalties for new engine parts this weekend.
 
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Amar__

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pauldyson1uk said:
all teams have to give a rookie driver a FP session once a season, well I think that's the reason.
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Oh, I didn't realise that. I guess that guy in Haas won't be driving anymore that's for sure.

Also Sergeant making his debut in USA is gold.
 

pauldyson1uk

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Red Bull and Alfa Romeo have opted to introduce fresh engines in Austin for Sergio Perez and Zhou Guanyu that will set both drivers back by five spots on Sunday's US Grand Prix grid.

Both drivers were the recipient of a fifth internal combustion engine (ICE) this season.

The changes won't help Perez' chances of fending off Ferrari's Charles Leclerc in the Drivers' standings, with the pair battling for the runner-up spot behind freshly crowned F1 world champion Max Verstappen.

But it also won't strengthen Red Bull's chances of clinching the Constructors' title, although the Milton Keynes-based outfit still hold a nearly unbeatable lead of 165 points over Ferrari.

The Mexican is current one point ahead of his Ferrari rival with four races to go this season.

Zhou's allocation of fresh power will hopefully boost Alfa Romeo's chances of returning among the top-ten, a position the Swiss outfit has enjoyed only once in the last nine races.
 

pauldyson1uk

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What is the Pirelli tyre test?
Martin Brundle explains why we are seeing a Pirelli tyre test in this session.
He said: "Pirelli need some information. They’re going to knock the blanket temperatures down to 50 degrees next year, in anticipation of eventually no tyre blankets, which seems slightly crazy to me. They want to test that, they want to test some compounds.
"Drivers will have to go out on fixed fuel loads, for a fixed number of laps, they won’t know what tyres are on – it’s all about information for Pirelli.
"They also can’t do any setup changes either between the runs, which is really tough for the teams.
"Normally this is a session that’s really important to them, so not the easiest for the teams but it’s information they need for next year."
 

The Firestarter

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pauldyson1uk said:
What is the Pirelli tyre test?
Martin Brundle explains why we are seeing a Pirelli tyre test in this session.
He said: "Pirelli need some information. They’re going to knock the blanket temperatures down to 50 degrees next year, in anticipation of eventually no tyre blankets, which seems slightly crazy to me. They want to test that, they want to test some compounds.
"Drivers will have to go out on fixed fuel loads, for a fixed number of laps, they won’t know what tyres are on – it’s all about information for Pirelli.
"They also can’t do any setup changes either between the runs, which is really tough for the teams.
"Normally this is a session that’s really important to them, so not the easiest for the teams but it’s information they need for next year."
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Why the feck no tyre blankets? Budget caps on electricity?
 

hobbers

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The Firestarter said:
Why the feck no tyre blankets? Budget caps on electricity?
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No idea but it sounds ridiculous.

If cars are pitting for new tyres and the tyres are always cold, how the feck are you ever going to undercut someone? It won't be possible anymore.
 

dinostar77

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hobbers said:
No idea but it sounds ridiculous.

If cars are pitting for new tyres and the tyres are always cold, how the feck are you ever going to undercut someone? It won't be possible anymore.
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Its ok, redbull will find a way to cheat the tyre blanket ban and blame it on their catering.
 

dinostar77

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Apparently this is the penalty RedBull might appeal. What a load of shit from FIA again. They have as much integrity as the board of enron.

..FIA had already proposed a penalty to Red Bull about a week ago. Reportedly, 25 per cent of the total wind tunnel time will be withheld for next season and a fine will be issued. A retrospective penalty with a points deduction for 2021 would be off the table. However, the team of Max Verstappen and Sergio Perez does not agree with this proposal..

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/148841/this-is-the-penalty-fia-proposed-red-bull-disagrees.html
 

goalscholes

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Buster15 said:
Just imagine if this was football.
Referee.. That was a bad foul inside the penalty area. I was going to give a penalty. Are you happy with that. If not, I will not award a penalty?
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In football you can chose to accept or appeal punishments after the match. If you appeal, they can decide to extend or reduce the punishment.

It is almost identical to F1, except the crime and the discussions here are being kept secret, which is ridiculous and undermines confidence in the process.
 

Fluctuation0161

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goalscholes said:
In football you can chose to accept or appeal punishments after the match. If you appeal, they can decide to extend or reduce the punishment.

It is almost identical to F1, except the crime and the discussions here are being kept secret, which is ridiculous and undermines confidence in the process.
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But they've not been issued with any punishment yet. So they are able to appeal before any punishment is given. Meanwhile they have developed the fastest car and been awarded the drivers championship by overspending.

Meanwhile, as you say, the FIA, who awarded Red Bull last years drivers championship by effectively cheating in an unprecedented way, are secretly bargaining with the team they favoured (through Masi) last year.

F1 is a joke.
 

Buster15

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goalscholes said:
In football you can chose to accept or appeal punishments after the match. If you appeal, they can decide to extend or reduce the punishment.

It is almost identical to F1, except the crime and the discussions here are being kept secret, which is ridiculous and undermines confidence in the process.
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That would be correct, except for the fact that no punishment has been awarded to RB yet. Has it...
 

goalscholes

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Buster15 said:
That would be correct, except for the fact that no punishment has been awarded to RB yet. Has it...
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I think we agree that they should be transparent about the overspend and the proposed punishment. If it isn't black and white, then F1 has messed up again, by contradicting what they've written in the rules and what they've communicated to the teams.

But in many walks of life, there will be conversations and negotiations between the rule maker and rule breaker, with the neutral invigilator only coming in if the two parties cannot reach an agreement. It is not unprecedented. And it has happened in F1 as long as I've watched it.

The real issue is that no one trusts them to do it correctly after their astounding incompetence last year and the fact that RB continue to benefit from going beyond what other teams see as fair. If they had made good decisions in the past, the fact that there were negotiations wouldn't be seen as much of an issue.
 

hobbers

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Red Bull broke the F1 cost cap by $1.8m due to four clear reasons, according to reports.

Red Bull were initially $4m inside the $145m F1 budget, according to RacingNews365, before four issues cost them a combined $5.8m, pushing them $1.8m above the cap.

$0.8m in gardening leave for Dan Fellows who left to join AM that for whatever reason RB didn't include.
$1.2m catering costs not included in the spend that FIA say should be.
$1m+ spare parts that should not have counted until a June 22 rule change after submissions were in.
$1m+ tax overpayment that might yet be rebated from HMRC

Storm in a teacup pretty much confirmed. If the spare parts and tax things are excluded then they'd be comfortably under the cap, no wonder they're not accepting the ABA.
 

SilentWitness

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hobbers said:
Red Bull broke the F1 cost cap by $1.8m due to four clear reasons, according to reports.

Red Bull were initially $4m inside the $145m F1 budget, according to RacingNews365, before four issues cost them a combined $5.8m, pushing them $1.8m above the cap.

$0.8m in gardening leave for Dan Fellows who left to join AM that for whatever reason RB didn't include.
$1.2m catering costs not included in the spend that FIA say should be.
$1m+ spare parts that should not have counted until a June 22 rule change after submissions were in.
$1m+ tax overpayment that might yet be rebated from HMRC

Storm in a teacup pretty much confirmed. If the spare parts and tax things are excluded then they'd be comfortably under the cap, no wonder they're not accepting the ABA.
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Cool. They still broke it.
 

christy87

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hobbers said:
Red Bull broke the F1 cost cap by $1.8m due to four clear reasons, according to reports.

Red Bull were initially $4m inside the $145m F1 budget, according to RacingNews365, before four issues cost them a combined $5.8m, pushing them $1.8m above the cap.

$0.8m in gardening leave for Dan Fellows who left to join AM that for whatever reason RB didn't include.
$1.2m catering costs not included in the spend that FIA say should be.
$1m+ spare parts that should not have counted until a June 22 rule change after submissions were in.
$1m+ tax overpayment that might yet be rebated from HMRC

Storm in a teacup pretty much confirmed. If the spare parts and tax things are excluded then they'd be comfortably under the cap, no wonder they're not accepting the ABA.
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Changing the rules a year after is like awarding penalties for var cock ups at the end of the season
 

Buster15

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goalscholes said:
I think we agree that they should be transparent about the overspend and the proposed punishment. If it isn't black and white, then F1 has messed up again, by contradicting what they've written in the rules and what they've communicated to the teams.

But in many walks of life, there will be conversations and negotiations between the rule maker and rule breaker, with the neutral invigilator only coming in if the two parties cannot reach an agreement. It is not unprecedented. And it has happened in F1 as long as I've watched it.

The real issue is that no one trusts them to do it correctly after their astounding incompetence last year and the fact that RB continue to benefit from going beyond what other teams see as fair. If they had made good decisions in the past, the fact that there were negotiations wouldn't be seen as much of an issue.
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Yes. Agree with this. Especially about the astounding incompetence of last year.
To be honest I still find it difficult to accept the outcome of that so called race.
And how do we know whether or not RB overspend has had any influence on this year win.
 

hobbers

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ArjenIsM3 said:
Correct. Question is, are they? The source is legit but you never know.
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There's no way they'll accept any penalty with wind tunnel reduction, and nor should they. The FIA look more at fault with all of this than they do now. If the FIA offer them a trivial penalty and get the chance to put it all out in the public domain they'd probably accept that, otherwise they'll take it to the courts because they know they'll win there, eventually.

From the press conference it's pretty obvious those numbers and item breakdown for the breach are correct, all the press are running with it now. Horner confirmed 7 figures worth of spare/unused parts are in contention because of the rule changed 3 months after they submitted, and they were not allowed to alter their submission.
 

Lightbringer

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Squeaky bum time for Mick Schumacher, deliver or the F1 dream is dead, immense pressure! (its probably dead anyway, but he might not be aware)
 
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