F1 2022 Season

[Zlaatan]

Well the FIA clearly aren't aware of everything otherwise cheating would never happen on cars. If RB turned up one weekend with a new lighter chassis, from the outside how are the FIA supposed to know without it being declared? It's not like you can see the difference.

Whether thats actually possible/plausible I don't really know, but the improvement has been quite coincidental since that point.

I do wonder though how they managed to create this with the financial restrictions, and how Aston Martin basically made 2 different cars. No surprises they're the 2 teams under suspicion.

There are checks done to two of the cars after every race that goes beyond the standard procedure where they are dismantled and gone over in more detail and suspicion about certain parts will be a factor in deciding which cars are chosen and which areas to look at more closely. I'm also pretty sure that they have an identification system of the parts that goes beyond a simple visual inspection to see if it's a different design than it was before.
Otherwise there would be no point in having rules about a limited amount of engines, turbos, gearboxes etc since they would just as likely be able to hide that as they could hide a new chassis.

As for RB, if they used a new chassis without declaring it to the FIA when they already had the best car on the grid and both titles pretty much sown up already then they would be among the dumbest cheaters in F1 history.

 

[Massive Spanner]

George Russell is doing an AMA and it went predictably James Cordeney

 

[pacifictheme]

Yeah f1 reddit is a cesspit.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Outlets now reporting Red Bull, Aston Martin and the FIA have agreed to an ABA. Details to be published tomorrow.

 

[VorZakone]

So did RB cheat...or not?

 

[rimaldo]

So did RB cheat...or not?

it doesn’t matter. the fia are trail blazers. i hope the crown court in the uk introduces a similar system whereby criminals are allowed to barter with the judges and agree on a sentence, all the while the actual crimes are never detailed. this way the general public have no idea a registered nonce only did 12 minutes behind bars because it was less paperwork for the judge and better hid their incompetence.

 

[altodevil]

r/formula1 was great 10 or so years ago, was basically an extension of the planetf1 forums.

 

[pacifictheme]

r/formula1 was great 10 or so years ago, was basically an extension of the planetf1 forums.

Feels like it's been over run by a certain group of fans brought ot f1 by a certain TV show.

 

[altodevil]

Feels like it's been over run by a certain group of fans brought ot f1 by a certain TV show.

Yep

 

[hobbers]

I didnt even know there was a formula1 reddit, thought it was just formuladank

 

[ArjenIsM3]

I didnt even know there was a formula1 reddit, thought it was just formuladank

 

[ZIDANE]

Red Bull's punishment for breaking Formula 1's budget cap will be revealed on Friday.

Red Bull have called a news conference at 17:30 BST at the Mexican Grand Prix to discuss their penalty.

It is understood that the team have come to an "accepted breach agreement" with F1's governing body the FIA.

"We feel we are not wrong and things are taken into the budget cap that are very unexpected, but we have to deal with it," driver Max Verstappen said.

The penalty has not been revealed but speculation within F1 suggests that it could be a multi-million dollar fine and a reduction in permitted aerodynamic research and development.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63421741

 

[hobbers]

Pray for Benson and Crofty tomorrow then.

 

[Mike Smalling]

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Very smooth by the FIA.

Spare a thought for Magnussen. Thought he was 8th, but was then overtaken by Vettel on the last lap to become 9th, then bumbed up to 8th by Alonso's penalty, and now bumped back to 9th. What a ride.

 

[pacifictheme]

That alonso penalty reversal reason is absolutely mental.

 

[rimaldo]

That alonso penalty reversal reason is absolutely mental.

what is it about sporting organisations and their inability to show any kind of consistency or logic to what they’re doing.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

That alonso penalty reversal reason is absolutely mental.

just shows how incompetent the FIA can be.

 

[TwoSheds]

What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.

Well if they broke the rules they cheated, it's not like they're a bunch of upstanding citizens in the senior management there is it? They probably thought they'd found a loophole and tried to exploit it. They should be punished properly if so. Reducing their budget cap would make the most sense to me.

 

[dinostar77]

What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.

I dont think we've heard the last of this despite the FIA ruling. Haas & Alfa Romeo bosses have also voiced their opinion that the penalty should be sporting not financial.

I dont think a 25% reduction in wind tunnel time for the next season is a sufficient deterant to the likes of ferrari and mercedes. Better to overspend, win a constructors or drivers title knowing it wont be taken away. The following season be damned. Ferrari for one havent won a WDC in 15 years. Worth the overspend to get that monkey off their back.

I have no doubts a number of teams will now break the costcap or get creative with financing and put the overspend on "catering". Personally i dont think likes ferrari and mercedes should d this. Just because Redbull cheated, they shouldnt lower themselves or their brands reputation to that position.

 

[hp88]

What ever fine / penalty Red Bull get will not be acceptable to some.
Huge fine and a reduction in wind tunnel time seems to be the punishment being banded around, is it enough ?
Some are calling for Max and Red Bull to be stripped of last seasons WC, that was never going to happen, again should it ?
I dont think is would be right.
The over spend is reported to be 1.8m, is that enough to change the out come of last season, would them not spending that 1.8m made Max slower or less comparative ?
If Red Bull can prove that the over spend was not spent on the car or development and was spent on catering and gardening leave, then yeah maybe the fine and penalty is about right.
Iam bored of it all, this has dragged on for too long, FIA need to sort out how they deal with stuff like this.
Some of the comments by other team principles and been pretty bad, one call Red Bull cheats, Toto did himself no favors , nor did Binotto.

There’s no real way of proving that though, the way I see it is that everyone was in the same position and made cut backs whereas RBR carried on spending. It shouldn’t really matter if that over spend was on catering or development, the only thing that matters is going over the allowance.

 

[11101]

I dont think we've heard the last of this despite the FIA ruling. Haas & Alfa Romeo bosses have also voiced their opinion that the penalty should be sporting not financial.

I dont think a 25% reduction in wind tunnel time for the next season is a sufficient deterant to the likes of ferrari and mercedes. Better to overspend, win a constructors or drivers title knowing it wont be taken away. The following season be damned. Ferrari for one havent won a WDC in 15 years. Worth the overspend to get that monkey off their back.

I have no doubts a number of teams will now break the costcap or get creative with financing and put the overspend on "catering". Personally i dont think likes ferrari and mercedes should d this. Just because Redbull cheated, they shouldnt lower themselves or their brands reputation to that position.

The big risk is this line of thinking pushes one of the big manufacturers to leave the sport. If LMH/Dh rules prove to be a success you could see a return to the doldrums of the late 90s in F1 where they are all, except for Ferrari, more focused on sportscars.

 

[The Firestarter]

I didnt even know there was a formula1 reddit, thought it was just formuladank

 

[pauldyson1uk]

I dont see how they can prove the overspend was not spent on the car, we will never know, maybe the FIA will , who knows.
And yes overspending on a budget, for what ever reason, yeah can be classed as cheating.
I can see why some say 25% reduction in the wind tunnel is not a big enough deterrent a budget reduction would.
My fear and of other I can read is other teams will think well if we over spend by 5% which is what 7.5m, with only be a slap on the wrists, it will be worth it.
Was Max aweare of the overspend, would he have had a clue, no I don't think so, but did he benefit, that question my never be answered.
OK I will ask you, what punishment would be appropriate ?
My thoughts.
Max keeps his WC , Red Bull stripped of the constructors title, reduction in budget next season and loss of tunnel time , too harsh ?

 

[hobbers]

The appropriate punishment is whatever they can negotiate in the ABA, since that’s the process all the teams agreed on.

 

[mitChley]

The appropriate punishment is whatever they can negotiate in the ABA, since that’s the process all the teams agreed on.

Bingo, all the teams agreed to the rules including the punishments.

 

[dinostar77]

The big risk is this line of thinking pushes one of the big manufacturers to leave the sport. If LMH/Dh rules prove to be a success you could see a return to the doldrums of the late 90s in F1 where they are all, except for Ferrari, more focused on sportscars.

I can see the big manufacturers eventually spltting off from fia and starting their own series. Much like in football where the giant clubs are getting frustrated with UEFA. Eventually they may decide to govern themselves.

 

[dinostar77]

I dont see how they can prove the overspend was not spent on the car, we will never know, maybe the FIA will , who knows.
And yes overspending on a budget, for what ever reason, yeah can be classed as cheating.
I can see why some say 25% reduction in the wind tunnel is not a big enough deterrent a budget reduction would.
My fear and of other I can read is other teams will think well if we over spend by 5% which is what 7.5m, with only be a slap on the wrists, it will be worth it.
Was Max aweare of the overspend, would he have had a clue, no I don't think so, but did he benefit, that question my never be answered.
OK I will ask you, what punishment would be appropriate ?
My thoughts.
Max keeps his WC , Red Bull stripped of the constructors title, reduction in budget next season and loss of tunnel time , too harsh ?

2021 season for various reasons we all know its the nexus for the most controversal point in f1 history and will remain so. Therefore it becomes an outlier of a season for punishments.

So lets take 2022 season instead and imagine the same issue i.e. RB overspend of same amount. For me personally, i think i would strip RB of their constructors title, ban them from bring any updates to the 2023 for 12 races (50% of the season) and reduce wind tunnel time by 50%. No financial penalities. Max keeps his title and points and sergio his points.

It needs to be this harsh, to stop anyone else, Mercedes, Ferrari, AM, Audi etc from even thinking of breaching the budget because the consequences are so severe. Thats not the case at the moment.

 

[dinostar77]

Mercedes rumoured to be abandoning the skinny sidepods.

Would have been interesting if they could have gotten the sim data to match the track data. It would have been "significantly quicker than the ferrrai and redbull".

Whatever the fatal flaw is in the W13 that cant be fixed in season and mercedes wont reveal (its what caused the car to be so bad this season). If it hadnt of made that mistake, the season could have been very different.

Personally i think its the rear suspension, thats flawed and cant be fixed in season due to the way the floor works.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-clues-mercedes-will-abandon-unique-f1-sidepods-for-2023/

 

[elmo]

I dont see how they can prove the overspend was not spent on the car, we will never know, maybe the FIA will , who knows.
And yes overspending on a budget, for what ever reason, yeah can be classed as cheating.
I can see why some say 25% reduction in the wind tunnel is not a big enough deterrent a budget reduction would.
My fear and of other I can read is other teams will think well if we over spend by 5% which is what 7.5m, with only be a slap on the wrists, it will be worth it.
Was Max aweare of the overspend, would he have had a clue, no I don't think so, but did he benefit, that question my never be answered.
OK I will ask you, what punishment would be appropriate ?
My thoughts.
Max keeps his WC , Red Bull stripped of the constructors title, reduction in budget next season and loss of tunnel time , too harsh ?

Just make the team that overspends pay that amount to every other team and that amount won’t be included into everyone else’s budget.

Nobody is going to risk overspending when they’ll basically be fined 9 times the value they exceed and give everyone more money to spend.

 

[klsv]

7 million fine and 10% less aero testing for RB.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Formula One's governing body ordered Red Bull to pay a $7 million fine and forfeit wind tunnel time of only 10% as punishment for overspending the 2021 cost cap by $1.8 million during Max Verstappen's first championship season.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

This is on an F1 facebook page, its utter madness.

They breached the budget cap so that they can bribe FIA to win championship… so now that they have won, FIA have sanctioned them to keep other teams happy.

 

[Rado_N]

I could imagine reading that on here to be fair.

 

[Leg-End]

Just sounds like they should invest in someone that knows how the budget works. The impact of that punishment is nothing, but glad they can draw a line under it and we don't have to keep reading about it.

 

[ZIDANE]

Need to read the detail but it seems a reasonable conclusion given the below (amount after tax credit and what areas). Hope they can sort this in time for next year (this season). Wind tunnel time will impact them as they are first in constructors so already reduced but at the same time they are so far ahead and have Newey so it probably won't make any difference.

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[vangagal]

Thats basically just pocket change. At least some transparancy is better than confidential agreement with Ferrari few years back.

 

[hobbers]

10% as expected, so they’ll lose about 20 wind tunnel runs in total

 

[The Hilton]

I'm in two minds really.

On one hand it's a minor overspend, a decent chunk of which seems to be due to poor accounting, so I get going with some leniency.

However, there isn't any actual punishment here, Red Bull are so far ahead of everyone that a handful fewer wind tunnel visits won't make any difference, and the fine is pointless, it should at least have been taken from their budget for this year.

The precedent set isn't the most encouraging - if you have the money, overspend a bit and you'll get a fine, keep the same budget, and lose a little wind tunnel time for the next year. If you can spend the £2.2 million well, that's a deal worth taking every time.

 

[goalscholes]

10% is a very low punishment, and the 7m wont come out of their cap, so is redundant.

Sets a poor precedent, because the other top teams will inevitably take this deal, which will exacerbate the gap between the richer and poorer teams (the entire purpose of the cap). A 10% cut in wind tunnel time and 1.9m reduction of their cap next year would be far more fair than a 7m fine.

But of course, that would be less money for the FIA's coffers and would annoy the team they continue to help.