F1 2023 Season

[Sassy Colin]

It's amazing that Hamilton could finish 3rd in the Championship, despite driving an absolute pants car.

Mercedes, since Hamilton was robbed of his 8th, have been all "Next year is our year". Hamilton has signed for another 2 years, so he must believe that Mercedes can still challenge Red Bull.

Although, tbf, there aren't really any other worthwhile opportunities for him, apart from retirement.

 

[hobbers]

It's amazing that Hamilton could finish 3rd in the Championship, despite driving an absolute pants car.

It's the second fastest car in race trim at a lot of tracks.

 

[dinostar77]

It's amazing that Hamilton could finish 3rd in the Championship, despite driving an absolute pants car.

Mercedes, since Hamilton was robbed of his 8th, have been all "Next year is our year". Hamilton has signed for another 2 years, so he must believe that Mercedes can still challenge Red Bull.

Although, tbf, there aren't really any other worthwhile opportunities for him, apart from retirement.

If no team closes the gap to RB next season, then no one will till 2026 season. Come the 2025 season all resources will be going into the 2026 cars for everyone. RB have shown the way. Nail the regulations, build a rocketship of a car and under the Cost Cap, you cant be caught, for a few years at least.

As crazy as it sounds we could be going into the 2026 season, with Max also breaking the 100 GP wins tally. Such is the dominance of that car (adrian newey's greatest f1 car design? ), and the reliability of the cars now that verstappen could win the remaining races this season taking him to 55 wins. Then there 24 races for 2024 and 24 for 2025 season. Win all those and hes uptp 103 wins by start of 2026.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

How many of you agree that there should be result based penalties rather that 5 sec penalty?

A 5s penalty can have either no effect, e.g. today, or too much of an effect, if e.g. there is a late race safety car.

+3 places on the final classification if you severely hamper another driver's race via clumsy driving, and +1 place if you don't give a place back after going off track. That would focus minds more.

 

[goalscholes]

How many of you agree that there should be result based penalties rather that 5 sec penalty?

A 5s penalty can have either no effect, e.g. today, or too much of an effect, if e.g. there is a late race safety ca

+3 places on the final classification if you severely hamper another driver's race via clumsy driving, and +1 place if you don't give a place back after going off track. That would focus minds more.

It very much benefitted George to cut the corner and get past the Williams on fresh tyres.

I think without a change to the rules, cars will increasingly cut corners at tough to pass tracks when stuck behind slow cars. Today, someone would skip the chicane at Monaco for example, to overtake Ricciardo’s broken car

 

[BusbyMalone]

Few records her for Max. No doubt more on the way.

 

[hobbers]

Fair to say if he did have a change of heart and race to 40, he'd probably hit the 10 wdc mark.

 

[altodevil]

Top class driver + best car = utter dominance

Tale as old as time.

The one potential positive out of the Liberty ownership is that Americans hate unfair sport structures. They might be bold enough to introduce some one-off spec races with F1 drivers involved, impacting solely on WDC.

If only they could meddle like that, rather than messing with perfectly fine weekend formula.

 

[Amar__]

It seems like Totto and Hamilton are obsessed about Red Bull and Max, they can't stop talking about them these days. What the hell is going on?

 

[hobbers]

It seems like Totto and Hamilton are obsessed about Red Bull and Max, they can't stop talking about them these days. What the hell is going on?

They're asked about them dozens of times every race weekend in fairness. Though Hamilton's responses seem particularly deluded and bitter. Not sure what he's thinking bringing team mates into the equation, since he's been beaten over a season by 3 of his 6. While Max has ended the RB careers of Ricciardo, Albon and Gasly simply by being too good, and they are all great drivers in their own right and certainly all superior to Valteri fecking Bottas, as is Perez.

 

[The Firestarter]

They're asked about them dozens of times every race weekend in fairness. Though Hamilton's responses seem particularly deluded and bitter. Not sure what he's thinking bringing team mates into the equation, since he's been beaten over a season by 3 of his 6. While Max has ended the RB careers of Ricciardo, Albon and Gasly simply by being too good, and they are all great drivers in their own right and certainly all superior to Valteri fecking Bottas, as is Perez.

They keep asking them because they know they'll keep getting bitter responses.

 

[hobbers]

They keep asking them because they know they'll keep getting bitter responses.

Yep. To be fair I think Toto's are usually quite good and mostly banter. He hides his rage well these days.

 

[The Firestarter]

Yep. To be fair I think Toto's are usually quite good and mostly banter. He hides his rage well these days.

The Wikipedia one was pretty dumb

 

[dinostar77]

They're asked about them dozens of times every race weekend in fairness. Though Hamilton's responses seem particularly deluded and bitter. Not sure what he's thinking bringing team mates into the equation, since he's been beaten over a season by 3 of his 6. While Max has ended the RB careers of Ricciardo, Albon and Gasly simply by being too good, and they are all great drivers in their own right and certainly all superior to Valteri fecking Bottas, as is Perez.

How many of max's ex-racing partners have been WDC winners? None.

Unless he was in the car at the same time as vettel?

Hamilton has had, Alonso, Roseberg and Button.

 

[hobbers]

How many of max's ex-racing partners have been WDC winners? None.

Unless he was in the car at the same time as vettel?

Hamilton has had, Alonso, Roseberg and Button.

So what? He tied with Alonso at McLaren (109 points each). Button outscored him at McLaren over the 3 seasons they were together, even if he only beat him 1 of the 3. And Rosberg beat him to a title. He doesnt have bragging rights over any of them.

He also said Bottas was a tougher team mate than any Max has had, which is a deranged thing to say.

Put simply, Hamilton has dominated two of his six team mates - Bottas and Kovaleinen - in his career.

Max has dominated Sainz, Gasly, Albon and Perez, and also stole Kvyats RB seat, wife and daughter. Not much of a contest.

 

[Jerch]

How many of max's ex-racing partners have been WDC winners? None.

Unless he was in the car at the same time as vettel?

Hamilton has had, Alonso, Roseberg and Button.

And he was beaten or equaled by all of them. So your point was?

 

[BusbyMalone]

It seems like Totto and Hamilton are obsessed about Red Bull and Max, they can't stop talking about them these days. What the hell is going on?

All about the "content". They keep being asked these dumb questions. However, the way they answer them is pretty pathetic. Very bitter and salty.

 

[goalscholes]

So what? He tied with Alonso at McLaren (109 points each). Button outscored him at McLaren over the 3 seasons they were together, even if he only beat him 1 of the 3. And Rosberg beat him to a title. He doesnt have bragging rights over any of them.

He also said Bottas was a tougher team mate than any Max has had, which is a deranged thing to say.

Put simply, Hamilton has dominated two of his six team mates - Bottas and Kovaleinen - in his career.

Max has dominated Sainz, Gasly, Albon and Perez, and also stole Kvyats RB seat, wife and daughter. Not much of a contest.

Arguably every team mate Lewis had at the time he faced them would have beat every team mate Max had at the time he faced them (with the exception of Koveleinen).

We all remember the moments in 2021 when Perez was a world class racing driver and kept Hamilton at bay for Max, and how abysmal Bottas was that season, but Bottas still beat Perez over the whole season in a very similar quality car (226 v 190).

A caveat being RB applied team orders earlier that season (good choice as without these Lewis would have won), but it’s not as obvious a gap in quality as you’re making out.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Arguably every team mate Lewis had at the time he faced them would have beat every team mate Max had at the time he faced them (with the exception of Koveleinen).

We all remember the moments in 2021 when Perez was a world class racing driver and kept Hamilton at bay for Max, and how abysmal Bottas was that season, but Bottas still beat Perez over the whole season in a very similar quality car (226 v 190).

A caveat being RB applied team orders earlier that season (good choice as without these Lewis would have won), but it’s not as obvious a gap in quality as you’re making out.

You're comparing Bottas in his 5th season in the same team with the same car concept versus Perez who was in his first year with RB and in a car more or less built to be the opposite of what he had been used to?

 

[hobbers]

Arguably every team mate Lewis had at the time he faced them would have beat every team mate Max had at the time he faced them (with the exception of Koveleinen).

But this doesnt mean anything if they also beat Hamilton.

On Bottas, he was always good in qualifying but is one of the worst racers on the grid. His starts are abysmal and he only ever goes backwards in races. He's like the anti-Perez. Can argue about what Sainz, Albon and Gasly would have been like had they debuted in a Mercedes against Hamilton, and we'll never know, but they're obviously far more talented drivers than Bottas.

And this is also forgetting Ricciardo who was one of the fastest drivers on the grid at Red Bull, easily top 5 from 2014 to 2018. Miles better than Bottas at his best. Probably better than Button and Rosberg as well. Had he not had a nightmare 2018 season with 8 DNFs and run off to Renault who knows what might have happened.

 

[Maroon Lucifer]

I don't believe this was shown during the race, incredible. This only happens in the F1 game in easy mode
Lawson overtakes Hulkenberg

 

[dinostar77]

Nico Rosberg has apparently been told by someone he trusts that Lando Norris will be switching teams for 2024, even though Lando is contracted to Mclaren till 2025.

Lando in a RB would be interesting. Makes sense since Max and Lando are really close.

However its a risky move for Lando, at Mclaren theres a chance of a WDC, maybe in next few seasons. At RB unless he got equality with verstappen, he'd be an unoffical no2 and have to beat max to a WDC.

Hypothetical question then, who would Mclaren put in with Piastri in Lando's vacant seat then?

A straight swap with Perez? Cant see Mclaren being interested in him, but he's experienced and do bring alot of alot sponsership money with him.

Alex Albon? Team leader at Williams, does he really want to risk his rebuilt career against the potential of Piastri?

I would have thought they would want a experienced replacement rather than running with two rookies. Lots of drivers are confirmed for next season. I would if Rosberg's source is wrong.

 

[RoadTrip]

All this debate about Max VS Hamilton is so pointless. For me, they both firmly sit in the very top tier of drivers and who each of us thinks is better is mostly an irrelevant debate which will always be skewed by who you like more. I would like to see Max have a competitive team mate but it’s also irrelevant in determining how great Max is, because we can all use our eyes and quite clearly see that Max is one of the best. Just like Hamilton. Like Schumacher. Etc.

 

[hobbers]

Who says Lando hasnt signed a pre contract with AM or Ferrari. Stroll and Sainz are hardly safe.

Really dont see Horner wanting to shake the house up too much before 2026. So long as Perez is second in the championship the minutiae of his results dont actually matter at all.

All the people who are desperate for Max to lose have started holding Perez's results to a more and more deluded standard. 5 wins and 24 podiums in 58 races isnt bad for a clear number 2 driver. 4th in 2021, 3rd in 2022, 2nd in 2023.

Bottas' first 58 races at Mercedes: 5 wins 33 podiums. 3rd, 5th, 2nd wdc finishes.

 

[dinostar77]

All this debate about Max VS Hamilton is so pointless. For me, they both firmly sit in the very top tier of drivers and who each of us thinks is better is mostly an irrelevant debate which will always be skewed by who you like more. I would like to see Max have a competitive team mate but it’s also irrelevant in determining how great Max is, because we can all use our eyes and quite clearly see that Max is one of the best. Just like Hamilton. Like Schumacher. Etc.

is he though? Or is he Vettel at RB 2.0 ?
Very similar things were said about Vettel when he was winning 4 WDCs with RB. That gushibg praise wasnt so effusive when he'd left ferrari or AM.

Other than 2021, not having any Championship battles is a valid point.

Not having teammates who were WDCs or went on to be is a valid point.

Both may get addressed over the course of his F1 career. My point is its too early to judge max, get caught up in the hype train if you want, people did for Prost, Senna, Schmacher, Alonso Hamilton etc

The only way imho to judge how good a driver who has won a WDC is, is when they dont have a WDC capable car anymore. Abit of the halo of schmacher and hamilton came off when they werent in competative cars. Same will happen to verstappen eventually.

 

[Zarlak]

It seems like Totto and Hamilton are obsessed about Red Bull and Max, they can't stop talking about them these days. What the hell is going on?

The same way that Horner was obsessed with Merc when they were dominant and said "Toto" 20 times in each Drive to Survive episode. It's not really that surprising. Also media will ask them loaded questions constantly because they know the answers will get massive engagement as the winning team will take everything out of context/or get ridiculous because they can't deal with any facts that might diminish their achievements, and the losing teams fans will exaggerate everything to make it look like the gap isn't that small. And engagement equals money. You could just post a picture of Max and Lewis face with no headline and there would be 1,000 comments arguing with each other underneath it.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[hobbers]

We will really miss not having a rumbling cost cap saga for the last 3 months of the season. And by we I mean the media and stinking tabloids.

 

[Zlaatan]

is he though? Or is he Vettel at RB 2.0 ?
Very similar things were said about Vettel when he was winning 4 WDCs with RB. That gushibg praise wasnt so effusive when he'd left ferrari or AM.

Other than 2021, not having any Championship battles is a valid point.

Not having teammates who were WDCs or went on to be is a valid point.

Both may get addressed over the course of his F1 career. My point is its too early to judge max, get caught up in the hype train if you want, people did for Prost, Senna, Schmacher, Alonso Hamilton etc

The only way imho to judge how good a driver who has won a WDC is, is when they dont have a WDC capable car anymore. Abit of the halo of schmacher and hamilton came off when they werent in competative cars. Same will happen to verstappen eventually.

Can't you also judge them on how they performed in those kind of cars before they won? Vettel only had 1.5 seasons in F1 before he got a championship winning car so it's fair to look at how he performed after that to really see how he handled the material he was given, but Max drove for 6 years before he got his chance at the title and that coupled with what is now becoming his 3rd WC season should be plenty of time to judge how good of a driver he is both with and without championship winning cars.

I mean I can't think of a single driver that had people saying "let's wait a few years and see how good he actually is" when they were in the middle of their 9th season in F1, especially when they were essentially 3 time world champions. Just as a comparison Senna had 10 seasons in F1, Lauda and Prost 13.

 

[Amar__]

The same way that Horner was obsessed with Merc when they were dominant and said "Toto" 20 times in each Drive to Survive episode. It's not really that surprising. Also media will ask them loaded questions constantly because they know the answers will get massive engagement as the winning team will take everything out of context/or get ridiculous because they can't deal with any facts that might diminish their achievements, and the losing teams fans will exaggerate everything to make it look like the gap isn't that small. And engagement equals money. You could just post a picture of Max and Lewis face with no headline and there would be 1,000 comments arguing with each other underneath it.

Pretty sure most of people here can't stand Horner, so I am really not sure that's a good argument in Totto's and especially in Hamilton's favour.

Regarding media asking them questions, they could well ignore some questions. For example, the likes of Pep and Ten Hag hardly ever get questioned about opposition players and teams, simply because they stated few timed that they don't want to talk about opposition players and teams. But the likes of Klopp gets asked in every press conference about other players and clubs, guess why? Yeah, because he enjoys talking about other teams.

 

[Zarlak]

Pretty sure most of people here can't stand Horner, so I am really not sure that's a good argument in Totto's and especially in Hamilton's favour.

Regarding media asking them questions, they could well ignore some questions. For example, the likes of Pep and Ten Hag hardly ever get questioned about opposition players and teams, simply because they stated few timed that they don't want to talk about opposition players and teams. But the likes of Klopp gets asked in every press conference about other players and clubs, guess why? Yeah, because he enjoys talking about other teams.

Whether people can stand Horner or not is irrelevant to the point. When a team is dominant, the team that used to be/is in number 2 is constantly bombarded with questions about them/has a personal goal to dethrone the person in the number 1 spot. It's completely normal. United fans were obsessed with Liverpool for 19 years before we passed their trophy count. Everyone else was obsessed with us/ABU when we won everything under SAF.

The media's job is to get as many clicks as possibly for the algorithms whether it's true or not, fair or heavily agenda driven/slanted - not to acquiesce to any individuals preference. It's nice they do that for some PL managers, but it's antithetical to their job.

If they asked Lewis/Toto a question about Red Bull and they said they weren't going to comment then they'd run the story anyway and RB fans would lose their minds over that regardless. There's no winning.

 

[Amar__]

Whether people can stand Horner or not is irrelevant to the point. When a team is dominant, the team that used to be/is in number 2 is constantly bombarded with questions about them/has a personal goal to dethrone the person in the number 1 spot. It's completely normal. United fans were obsessed with Liverpool for 19 years before we passed their trophy count. Everyone else was obsessed with us/ABU when we won everything under SAF.

The media's job is to get as many clicks as possibly for the algorithms whether it's true or not, fair or heavily agenda driven/slanted - not to acquiesce to any individuals preference. It's nice they do that for some PL managers, but it's antithetical to their job.

If they asked Lewis/Toto a question about Red Bull and they said they weren't going to comment then they'd run the story anyway and RB fans would lose their minds over that regardless. There's no winning.

I am not really sure you understand that I am not criticising the media, but Hamilton and to some extent Totto who is feeding them with their answers.

 

[F-Red]

All this debate about Max VS Hamilton is so pointless.

Should end the thread here. The debate is like Groundhog Day with the same recurring cast.

 

[Zarlak]

I am not really sure you understand that I am not criticising the media, but Hamilton and to some extent Totto who is feeding them with their answers.

I do understand that, they're just damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they didn't answer, they'd get called out for it by the fans of the other teams still as being scared or lost for words or too pussy to say what they really think blah blah and if they do answer even if the answer is 100% true then they still get called out for it. Fans actively crave disagreement so they can take the glee from owning the other side no matter what the medium is, politics, sport, music, which console is best etc - the content and the engagement will come regardless. They may as well just answer the questions as put to them and let whatever happens happen.

 

[Redplane]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

So rumors floating AM didn't meet cost cap among 1 or 2 others. Suddenly AM performance takes major dip after a major update initially worked. Alpine, another rumored offender does too. Several teams suddenly praising RB for the great work they've done (I know some did a bit already but felt like several started heaping praise on them and Max more noticeably) - and then.... none of the rumors turn out to be true according to that. Almost feels like some of those teams did get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and quietedly negotiated a deal to make it go away to the benefit of the credibility of the sport. It's not like it didn't happen before *cough* Ferrari *cough* in a different way.

How much deeper shall we take this conspiracy theory?? Surely we can take this report and still turning it into something saucy!

 

[dinostar77]

Helmet Marko doesnt hold back. Unless theres some sort of deal, we'll have to wait till 2025 to see Lando in a RB.

“Perez is not consistent, he is not always focused,” GPBlog reports the Red Bull motorsport advisor as having told ServusTV.

“Perez has a contract until 2024 and Norris has a contract until 2025, unfortunately, it’s that long,” he said.

“He is definitely a candidate for us. At Toro Rosso, we had already reached an agreement with him at the time, until his manager realised there was an option for a McLaren contract.

“In terms of youth and speed, he would suit us very well.

“Sergio, on the other hand, is already over 30 and is expecting his fourth child. So he also has other interests, so you have to see what happens next.”

 

[Fully Fledged]

The team's advisor Helmut Marko has since apologised for insisting that there was a cultural reason for Sergio Perez continuing to finish behind Verstappen. "Let's remember that he is South American and so his head is not as focused as Max Verstappen or as Sebastian Vettel was," Marko told ServusTV last weekend. "But racing is his forte and he had a very good race."

 

[11101]

It would so good if F1 could do something like this. During FP3 fan coaches go out on track with the cars:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Just have to be careful Max doesn't try to take them out

 

[Redplane]

It would so good if F1 could do something like this. During FP3 fan coaches go out on track with the cars:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Just have to be careful Max doesn't try to take them out

Yeah but it being F1 you know they ll charge 10k a seat for one lap and the average Joe will never be able to do it. I also think a lot of the teams won't be a fan of putting wear on the cars just for that.

 

[hobbers]

Could not imagine anything worse than lumbering around Silverstone in a fecking coach