[MadDogg]

I find it strange how many people are saying he had a great debut, but also how many people saying he was poor. Just like during the pre-season games, I thought people definitely went overboard with his performances there.

The reality was that he showed a lot of inconsistency. There were moments he was extremely clumsy, with one or two times where if Fellaini had done it people would be making gifs of it and laughing at him. Miscontrolled balls that ended up behind him, running the ball out of play, etc. But there were also moments where he did extremely well. Combined with our other players, spread the ball, pinged it forward, good vision, etc. Focusing only on one 'side' of that and ignoring the other is a bit stupid.

Ultimately he showed a lot of promise. The potential to go on to be a very important player for us. But to really do that he needs to tighten up his game a fair bit. Whether it's something he can do quickly as he gets fully match fit, or whether it's something he's going to have to really work on over the next couple of seasons, who knows.

 

[RedSky]

I find it strange how many people are saying he had a great debut, but also how many people saying he was poor. Just like during the pre-season games, I thought people definitely went overboard with his performances there.

The reality was that he showed a lot of inconsistency. There were moments he was extremely clumsy, with one or two times where if Fellaini had done it people would be making gifs of it and laughing at him. Miscontrolled balls that ended up behind him, running the ball out of play, etc. But there were also moments where he did extremely well. Combined with our other players, spread the ball, pinged it forward, good vision, etc. Focusing only on one 'side' of that and ignoring the other is a bit stupid.

Ultimately he showed a lot of promise. The potential to go on to be a very important player for us. But to really do that he needs to tighten up his game a fair bit. Whether it's something he can do quickly as he gets fully match fit, or whether it's something he's going to have to really work on over the next couple of seasons, who knows.

Yeah, I agree with this. My worry with him was his tendency to stroll out of position which left our already weak right wing even weaker. Thought his passing was very good and seem to recall he made some decent interceptions but in the same token he had some poor first touches and lost the ball a few times. Hopefully the latter is simply lack of sharpness rather than an actual weakness in his game. Certainly showed glimpses of real potential but he wasn't amazing. Thought Pereira had a better game.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, I agree with this. My worry with him was his tendency to stroll out of position which left our already weak right wing even weaker. Thought his passing was very good and seem to recall he made some decent interceptions but in the same token he had some poor first touches and lost the ball a few times. Hopefully the latter is simply lack of sharpness rather than an actual weakness in his game. Certainly showed glimpses of real potential but he wasn't amazing. Thought Pereira had a better game.

Agree with all of that. Even though I also think Pereira’s performance is getting slightly over-rated on the caf.

Also worth noting that the caf seem to have concluded that Pogba, Fred and Pereira all played well/very well. In a game where Leicester had 54% of the ball, 5 corners vs 2 and 13 shots vs 8 (equivalent stats from last season = 30% possession, 3 vs 9 and 11 vs 22)

Something doesn’t add up!

 

[Jeppers7]

Agree with all of that. Even though I also think Pereira’s performance is getting slightly over-rated on the caf.

Also worth noting that the caf seem to have concluded that Pogba, Fred and Pereira all played very well. In a game where Leicester had 54% of the ball, 5 corners vs 2 and 13 shots vs 8 (equivalent stats from last season = 30% possession, 3 vs 9 and 11 vs 22)

Something doesn’t add up!

That's tactics. Note really many of Leicesters shots were in dangerous areas because we defend deep and allowed Leicester the ball. The problem wasn't the midfield.....it was the front three who unfortunately were all dire.

 

[MadDogg]

Also worth noting that the caf seem to have concluded that Pogba, Fred and Pereira all played very well. In a game where Leicester had 54% of the ball, 5 corners vs 2 and 13 shots vs 8 (equivalent stats from last season = 30% possession, 3 vs 9 and 11 vs 22)

Something doesn’t add up!

I think that 30 minute period in the first half where we just conceded all possession played a big part in those stats. I wasn't happy with that period, and all three of the midfielders definitely could have done better during it (as could pretty much all of our players). Importantly they got it sorted at halftime and came out and all looked far better again throughout all of the second half. The fact that we did turn it around again does also indicate that Mourinho wasn't happy with it and pushed us to get more control back again. Obviously he's not a possession-based manager, but he certainly doesn't want us just constantly giving the ball straight back whenever we win it. With this midfield we should now hopefully not fall into that trap like we constantly were last season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's tactics. Note really many of Leicesters shots were in dangerous areas because we defend deep and allowed Leicester the ball. The problem wasn't the midfield.....it was the front three who unfortunately were all dire.

Have the tactics changed all that radically from this season to last? I don’t think so. Against weaker teams at we consistently dominated possession at Old Trafford last season. I can’t think of any rational reason why that isn’t the aim again this season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think that 30 minute period in the first half where we just conceded all possession played a big part in those stats. I wasn't happy with that period, and all three of the midfielders definitely could have done better during it (as could pretty much all of our players). Importantly they got it sorted at halftime and came out and all looked far better again throughout all of the second half. The fact that we did turn it around again does also indicate that Mourinho wasn't happy with it and pushed us to get more control back again. Obviously he's not a possession-based manager, but he certainly doesn't want us just constantly giving the ball straight back whenever we win it. With this midfield we should now hopefully not fall into that trap like we constantly were last season.

Fair points.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I find it strange how many people are saying he had a great debut, but also how many people saying he was poor. Just like during the pre-season games, I thought people definitely went overboard with his performances there.

The reality was that he showed a lot of inconsistency. There were moments he was extremely clumsy, with one or two times where if Fellaini had done it people would be making gifs of it and laughing at him. Miscontrolled balls that ended up behind him, running the ball out of play, etc. But there were also moments where he did extremely well. Combined with our other players, spread the ball, pinged it forward, good vision, etc. Focusing only on one 'side' of that and ignoring the other is a bit stupid.

Ultimately he showed a lot of promise. The potential to go on to be a very important player for us. But to really do that he needs to tighten up his game a fair bit. Whether it's something he can do quickly as he gets fully match fit, or whether it's something he's going to have to really work on over the next couple of seasons, who knows.

Yeah, overall I felt he was good but didn't produce a special performance. Was he that much better than Alexis the other day? Alexis has been slated yet when Alexis signed for us people were raving over his performances which were fairly quiet. I guess we treat shiny new toys better.

I do think Fred is going to be good though. There's a lot of qualities to his game and his style will be a big difference. He will really benefit from playing with Matic.

 

[RedSky]

Agree with all of that. Even though I also think Pereira’s performance is getting slightly over-rated on the caf.

Also worth noting that the caf seem to have concluded that Pogba, Fred and Pereira all played very well. In a game where Leicester had 54% of the ball, 5 corners vs 2 and 13 shots vs 8 (equivalent stats from last season = 30% possession, 3 vs 9 and 11 vs 22)

Something doesn’t add up!

On Soccerway it shows Leicester with 58% of the ball. I've just taken last seasons results with possession and the only times we had less than 50% at Home were the following:

28/10/2017 - Tottenham - 46%
10/12/2017 - Manchester City - 39%
25/02/2018 - Chelsea - 46%
10/03/2018 - Liverpool - 37%
13/05/2018 - Watford - 47%
10/08/2018 - Leicester - 42%

That Leicester game was the 3rd lowest game at Home since start of last season. I could probably go back another season but too much effort, but yeah backs up your point I guess. Although I do think it was expected that we might struggle given we have a midfield of two new starters in Pereira and Fred. I'm clinging to that crumb of comfort for now.

--------------------------------------------

Edit:

Did a bit more digging and added Joses 1st season in charge. The Leicester game was the 5th worse possession from 39 home games in the Premier League.

 

[MadDogg]

Yeah, overall I felt he was good but didn't produce a special performance. Was he that much better than Alexis the other day? Alexis has been slated yet when Alexis signed for us people were raving over his performances which were fairly quiet. I guess we treat shiny new toys better.

I do think Fred is going to be good though. There's a lot of qualities to his game and his style will be a big difference. He will really benefit from playing with Matic.

He was definitely better than Alexis. I do think Alexis was a bit better than what most on this forum seem to, but overall he was certainly poor. Whereas Fred was largely fairly good, although with a few shaky aspects.

 

[BusbyMalone]

I was looking at a position map for all three of our midfielders the other day and Fred's really stood out. So nearly all of Pogba's touches were exclusively on the left of the midfield; it was quite focused. Same for Pereira. The vast majority of his touches and positioning was in our half, receiving the ball from deep and bringing up to the half way line. Again, very focused.

When it came to Fred, he was all over the shop. There was no one position you could point to and say that's where he played. It was equal amounts left, right, our half and their half. As i said, all over the place. Obviously that could be construed as being a positive as much as being a negative. I'm not really sure either way, tbh. It just really stood out. What i would say is, that Maddison (i think it was) was waltzing through our right sided midfield area a couple of times that match (where Fred was supposed to be). I actually said to a mate of mine how easy they were coming through us in midfield, especially for periods in the first half. Overall i think he had a good game, and he seems a tenacious type and someone who always looked forward when he received the ball so i don't want to be too critical of the guy as it's his first game.

Just something that stood out to me, that's all.

 

[WR10]

He reminds me of Di Maria when he first came here. Full of explosiveness and attacking intent. Apart from his garbage character.. we all know what happened to his football. We really aren’t a team that is set up to encourage natural attacking abilities. He’ll be unfortunately benched for most of the season for someone more ‘reliable’

 

[sherrinford]

He reminds me of Di Maria when he first came here. Full of explosiveness and attacking intent. Apart from his garbage character.. we all know what happened to his football. We really aren’t a team that is set up to encourage natural attacking abilities. He’ll be unfortunately benched for most of the season for someone more ‘reliable’

If we play him out wide and up front too it’s a certainty (not that I see the comparison)

 

[Laurentiu amt]

I find it strange how many people are saying he had a great debut, but also how many people saying he was poor. Just like during the pre-season games, I thought people definitely went overboard with his performances there.

The reality was that he showed a lot of inconsistency. There were moments he was extremely clumsy, with one or two times where if Fellaini had done it people would be making gifs of it and laughing at him. Miscontrolled balls that ended up behind him, running the ball out of play, etc. But there were also moments where he did extremely well. Combined with our other players, spread the ball, pinged it forward, good vision, etc. Focusing only on one 'side' of that and ignoring the other is a bit stupid.

Ultimately he showed a lot of promise. The potential to go on to be a very important player for us. But to really do that he needs to tighten up his game a fair bit. Whether it's something he can do quickly as he gets fully match fit, or whether it's something he's going to have to really work on over the next couple of seasons, who knows.

Lemme use some common sense on that.
He was alright for an EPL debut with 10 days training beforehand. Thing is, he was out muscled a few times off the ball and a few times other players sneaked in and stole it from him(maybe a communication issue between him and his fellow players).

When this happens, in the mind of a basic English fan there's a huge conflict: mhmm, he looks tidy on the ball but not really strong, not really quick thinking enough.
There are still people in UK believing that EPL is all about speed and strength these days, I think that's where Fred's debut lacked for them English fans. (it's not like we had coutinho, david silva, mata, aguero, hell even scholes that did very well in the EPL, while being small as feck, but hey)

He has potential atm and he's some fresh air for how we play because he always wants to go forward and Jose won't be able to get that out of him, just like he won't be able to get it out of Andreas and Paul. LEt's hope this will change our style of play tho.

 

[togg]

Just having a player called Fred is just......I don't know....cool.....

Although, like Blackadder, I'd love a player called Darling - what a wonderful commentary that would be.....

 

[rasta4eye]

Have the tactics changed all that radically from this season to last? I don’t think so. Against weaker teams at we consistently dominated possession at Old Trafford last season. I can’t think of any rational reason why that isn’t the aim again this season.

I think they were just better than they were last season TBH.

Them keeping the ball well, and our fitness or lack off, both contributed to us playing like we were up against Brazil or something at times!

The fitness and sharpness will obviously come, but my slight worry is, how will we play when we ourselves come up against a parked bus?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

On Soccerway it shows Leicester with 58% of the ball. I've just taken last seasons results with possession and the only times we had less than 50% at Home were the following:

28/10/2017 - Tottenham - 46%
10/12/2017 - Manchester City - 39%
25/02/2018 - Chelsea - 46%
10/03/2018 - Liverpool - 37%
13/05/2018 - Watford - 47%
10/08/2018 - Leicester - 42%

That Leicester game was the 3rd lowest game at Home since start of last season. I could probably go back another season but too much effort, but yeah backs up your point I guess. Although I do think it was expected that we might struggle given we have a midfield of two new starters in Pereira and Fred. I'm clinging to that crumb of comfort for now.

--------------------------------------------

Edit:

Did a bit more digging and added Joses 1st season in charge. The Leicester game was the 5th worse possession from 39 home games in the Premier League.

Jaysus. Our midfield three shouldn’t be walking away from that with the rave reviews they’ve been getting on the caf since! Up against what looks like one of the weaker central midfields in the league too.

I suspect that Matic is one of those players only fully appreciated in his absence. Bonkers that people are talking about how he shouldn’t get back in the team if the three who started against Leicester keep playing as well as they did at the weekend. I know that this is the Fred thread but those stats, to me, mainly highlight how unsuited Pereira is to anchoring midfield. No matter how elegant he can look in possession.

 

[Verminator]

Just having a player called Fred is just......I don't know....cool.....

Although, like Blackadder, I'd love a player called Darling - what a wonderful commentary that would be.....

You know everyone thought you were going to say Bob?

 

[Kag]

My point couldn’t be any clearer. We have zero control of midfield since Carrick stopped being a top player about three years ago. I was hoping that a 50m midfield signing might provide it. But apparently not... ( btw you mention Carrick and Scholes as if they were in some way similar, did you ever see these guys play football??)

We have more control of the midfield now (and this also includes the last three seasons under both Van Gaal and Mourinho) than we did during the last few years of Ferguson's reign. More possesion, more pressing, more control.

I watched the likes of Wigan and West Brom walk by Scholes and Giggs (while booting the ball away) as if they weren't there. It was the poorest part of our game, with or without Carrick.

As for Fred. I think he'll be a good addition. First impressions, mind, he looks no better than Herrera. I can't imagine him having that same influence during a big game. But perhaps he'll contribute towards the wider team shape in a way that isn't as noticeable. We'll see.

 

[TheReligion]

He reminds me of Di Maria when he first came here. Full of explosiveness and attacking intent. Apart from his garbage character.. we all know what happened to his football. We really aren’t a team that is set up to encourage natural attacking abilities. He’ll be unfortunately benched for most of the season for someone more ‘reliable’

Yeah I think Jose bought him blind and has no idea what kind of player he is. Total punt.

 

[Jeppers7]

Have the tactics changed all that radically from this season to last? I don’t think so. Against weaker teams at we consistently dominated possession at Old Trafford last season. I can’t think of any rational reason why that isn’t the aim again this season.

First game of the season, our squad not being as match fit due to World Cup and injuries, taking an early lead. Perhaps any of these reasons might have led to the tactic ? Perhaps Leicesters tactics were different ? Jose is reactionary and doesn't mind the opponent having the ball. Leicesters tactics would have a definite impact on our possession.

Well probably not get any real answer on what your suggesting until October/November.

What's for certain is that it wasn't the midfield three giving the ball away consistently on Friday and Jose had no issues with the low block or the possession Leicester had in the first half.

 

[sherrinford]

First game of the season, our squad not being as match fit due to World Cup and injuries, taking an early lead. Perhaps any of these reasons might have led to the tactic ? Perhaps Leicesters tactics were different ? Jose is reactionary and doesn't mind the opponent having the ball. Leicesters tactics would have a definite impact on our possession.

Well probably not get any real answer on what your suggesting until October/November.

What's for certain is that it wasn't the midfield three giving the ball away consistently on Friday and Jose had no issues with the low block or the possession Leicester had in the first half.

What makes you certain Jose had no issues with the low block and Leicester’s possession in the first half? We didn’t have the same approach after half time. I would think it likely that he did indeed take issue with how the game settled after a good start.

I agree that the midfield three kept the ball well - Pogba and Pereira both very steady, Fred inconsistent - and think that the front three didn’t do well enough generally in that respect.

 

[99withaflake]

That's tactics. Note really many of Leicesters shots were in dangerous areas because we defend deep and allowed Leicester the ball. The problem wasn't the midfield.....it was the front three who unfortunately were all dire.

Couldn't agree more. In midfield, Pogba played well, whilst Fred and Pereira both did ok. Most of the times our front 3 were presented with the ball, opportunities to create chances were wasted.

I was quite happy with Fred's first Premier League game. He made the odd mistake here and there, but generally was quite tidy, was quite positive and added some energy and bite to our midfield. A decent enough start and would expect him to improve over the next couple of months.

 

[Jeppers7]

What makes you certain Jose had no issues with the low block and Leicester’s possession in the first half? We didn’t have the same approach after half time. I would think it likely that he did indeed take issue with how the game settled after a good start.

I agree that the midfield three kept the ball well - Pogba and Pereira both very steady, Fred inconsistent - and think that the front three didn’t do well enough generally in that respect.

I could be wrong of course, and we did seem to create a little more in the second half, perhaps as Leicester tired. What makes me think is watching Jose on the sideline. The only things he seemed to take issue with was the constant giving up of possession through poor passing from the forwards. But he wasn't asking the players to move higher up the pitch. He was just stood,seemed fine with it.

 

[AR87]

A lot of the good feeling within the squad at the moment has been helped by the arrival of Fred, the Brazil midfielder who joined United in the summer, as he is seen as gregarious and outgoing and has brought a great deal to training.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...y-jose-mourinho-8216third-season-syndrome8217

I thought this was interesting and it's something I've mentioned to a few friends of mine when discussing our squad. He seems to have very positive, optimistic attitude and that's something we need more of in the squad imo.

 

[Ban]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...y-jose-mourinho-8216third-season-syndrome8217

I thought this was interesting and it's something I've mentioned to a few friends of mine when discussing our squad. He seems to have very positive, optimistic attitude and that's something we need more of in the squad imo.

Yeah I noticed he's already hugging with everyone.

 

[jesperjaap]

Lets judge him in the New Year. One game down, new league, culture, little pre season etc etc. All I can gather from the first game is he seems popular with team mates already, looks like a hard worker, a box to box midfielder and looks talented and comfortable on the ball. Wasnt an amazing performance but certainly showed promise, think he could be a really good signing. Along with Pereira coming back and startin so well certainly gives us plenty of options as last year or so we have been stuck with ruddy Fellaini half the time, or a generally average at best sometimes really good Herrera and then last season McTominay who looks like he can do a job but personally that is as well as I can put it with him. Now we have more than two players for each central midfield spot, four of which look like quality to me.

 

[Based Adnan]

Poor performance, slow to react to everything. Don't get even get me started on his passing. Sloppy to say the least. He was the same vs Leicester imo but the scoreline masked his performance then. Needs to improve quickly.

 

[kundalini]

Unrealistic to expect him to perform well in that type of match but he was crap.

 

[El Zoido]

Cannot form judgement on him when everything with this team is so wrong.

 

[Rajma]

I like him

 

[Mick321]

Early days but would like to at least see some sort of positive signs from him. Then again no player even performs to par under this manager apart from the goalie and he's coached by the goalie coach not Jose!

 

[Silas]

He's still getting used to the league, but he was shit today. Thought he should have gone off instead of Pereira.

 

[Van Piorsing]

With no coherent system he runs without direction. I imagine that would be the reaction from every player who just arrived in the new enviroment without a tactic.

 

[#07]

Looked as lost out there as Evra looked at Wastelands on his debut: lightweight and off the pace. You can see from his touch he’s a better player than Herrera but he’s not as ready for this kind of game as Ander.

 

[Woodenlung]

We're a poorly coached side so it's unfair to judge him as he's essentially been thrown into the side and told to work it out himself.

We still haven't gotten the best out of Pogba for the same reason. We won't see the bets out of either until a better manager come in.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Another poor signing?

Or another player who isn’t suited to Jose's system / tactics? Mind you, apart from Smalling, Fellaini and Matic, who is?

 

[Ekeke]

Just a couple of pretty good passes shown in his 2 matches so far. Nothing so far to suggest why he was an expensive signing

 

[An Irish Red]

He was poor and yet he was one of our better performers. That's how awful we were collectively.

 

[Zoo]

Don’t see how you can judge anyone apart from the defenders in this shambles.

A complete lack of structure and leadership and once again we get bullied and hustled by a bottom half team.