[Ceteris]

His body language now tells me he knows this is over for him.

I think it's best for both parties I reckon, for a deep line defence he's very good unfortunately that's not the way for this manager.

His main weakness is something he can't do anything about, he's just too slow

Hopefully we get a decent amount for him or use him in a deal for another player

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

God no.

Harry Maguire in a nutshell = shit.

We don't need to sugercoat it just because he's our shit captain.

Erik plays Shaw before he would play Harry ffs. Shaw isn't even a center back.
That speaks volumes.

We don't even have to involve Martinez or Varane to conclude that argument.

He's a poor footballer. Point blank. He's even worse when you expect him to play with the ball.

He'd be a great CB for the likes of Burnley or Everton, you know, hoof it and head it out and everybody is saying look at that fecking giant of a defender, bet you he's the new Vidić.

Well, he's not.

Bizarre how many just can't seem to grasp that Maguire is actually a poor defender. So many have referred to his lack of pace for why he doesn't fit in our side, or his low confidence. But he's genuinely just not good: Poor on the ball, very passive in challenging the ball, often loses runners, and in general is slow to react (slow of thought not just physically). He's a solid defender for aerial threats but that's about it.

 

[Halftrack]

Varane was at fault for the second goal. How many goals did Maguire cause? Also, Maguire's passing was 86% and he had more passes than anyone on the team. In fact, nobody even came close to him. Maguire had 127 passes. Dalot had the second most with 63.

You his mum?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

That stat means absolutely nothing because that was Leeds' gameplan. Just as how they let Fred have the ball in the first game knowing he would feck up, they did the same with Maguire who kept slowing down the pace and passing sideways. Of course you get more passes off when the opposition let you do whatever you want because they know nothing good comes out of it.

You do realize that in order for Maguire to pass it sideways, others have to pass it to him first. And you also realize that of all the players on our team, they passed it to Maguire the most. Maguire had 139 touches in the game. that's 63 more touches than the player with the second most amount of touches. In other words, Maguire's team mates were the ones passing him the ball. But where is your post about them passing it sideways and slowing down the play? But I get it...it doesn't fit the narative or the agenda...

 

[glasgow 21]

Varane was at fault for the second goal. How many goals did Maguire cause? Also, Maguire's passing was 86% and he had more passes than anyone on the team. In fact, nobody even came close to him. Maguire had 127 passes. Dalot had the second most with 63.

For the life of me. your quoting stats? open your eyes. Maguire plays like its pass the parcel bomb. 127 passes with 120 going sideways or back to De Gea. Maguire's is finished here we don't play a back 3 which he may or may not excel in and only Conte will be able to tell us that. England love him so someone will buy him so just the work done behind the scene ready to be activated on day one of window and stick the money in the transfer kitty.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Come on.

127 passes and did he actually play a pass thay went anywhere or led to anything?

He had that many because Leeds kept forcing the ball to him because they knew he'd do feck all with it. There were times where he was just stood there with 5 or 6 Leeds players right in front of him waiting for the pass backwards or sideways or lump it long aimlessy. Which he did enough of played 17 long balls and only 7 of those were accurate.

He was passed to 139 times by his team mates. Almost twice the amount that any other team mate was passed to. But where's your post about the other players taking the easy pass? What's the matter? Doesn't fit your agenda?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

For the life of me. your quoting stats? open your eyes. Maguire plays like its pass the parcel bomb. 127 passes with 120 going sideways or back to De Gea. Maguire's is finished here we don't play a back 3 which he may or may not excel in and only Conte will be able to tell us that. England love him so someone will buy him so just the work done behind the scene ready to be activated on day one of window and stick the money in the transfer kitty.

I'm just looking for people to stop scapegoating him. We kept a clean sheet and they had no chances through Maguire. In fact, their best chance was through a Luke Shaw give away. Had that been Maguire or had it been Maguire who scored the own goal mid week, theCaf would be going into meltdown. Meanwhile, Shaw and Varane do it and people still look for excuses to take the piss at Maguire. Bottom line is he had more touches than any player on the team. Almost twice as much as everyone else. But he didn't get the ball on his own. His teammates were passing to him. Why aren't you taking the piss at all the other players who passed it to him more than any other player?

 

[NK86]

He was passed to 139 times by his team mates. Almost twice the amount that any other team mate was passed to. But where's your post about the other players taking the easy pass? What's the matter? Doesn't fit your agenda?

How many of those 139 passes were from DDG? That will give you a better idea of where the problem lies.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

How many of those 139 passes were from DDG? That will give you a better idea of where the problem lies.

De Gea had 35 passes in the match. No idea who they were all too. Chances are a good chunk were to either Maguire or Shaw. So even if half were to Maguire, that means Maguire was still passed to at least 120 times by other team mates. But go on...tell me that you don't have an agenda

 

[NK86]

I'm just looking for people to stop scapegoating him. We kept a clean sheet and they had no chances through Maguire. In fact, their best chance was through a Luke Shaw give away. Had that been Maguire or had it been Maguire who scored the own goal mid week, theCaf would be going into meltdown. Meanwhile, Shaw and Varane do it and people still look for excuses to take the piss at Maguire. Bottom line is he had more touches than any player on the team. Almost twice as much as everyone else. But he didn't get the ball on his own. His teammates were passing to him. Why aren't you taking the piss at all the other players who passed it to him more than any other player?

You can say they had no chances but he was caught out as the last outfield player when he dithered on the ball too long, as usual, and that almost got their striker on goal.

You may want to look at a clean sheet and claim that as vindication of his performance but anyone who saw the game could see how he stuck out like a sore thumb in our build up from the back. The difference to when Martinez came on was so stark, that one almost cringed having to see Maguire struggling to play passes to get our attack going.

 

[NK86]

De Gea had 35 passes in the match. No idea who they were all too. Chances are a good chunk were to either Maguire or Shaw. So even if half were to Maguire, that means Maguire was still passed to at least 120 times by other team mates. But go on...tell me that you don't have an agenda

So he got 120 passes and he did feck all with them? Is that what you are trying to say to justify he did well?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

You can say they had no chances but he was caught out as the last outfield player when he dithered on the ball too long, as usual, and that almost got their striker on goal.

You may want to look at a clean sheet and claim that as vindication of his performance but anyone who saw the game could see how he stuck out like a sore thumb in our build up from the back. The difference to when Martinez came on was so stark, that one almost cringed having to see Maguire struggling to play passes to get our attack going.

You mean that time that he did actually feck up and ran back and made the tackle?

So Martinez replaced Maguire then??

 

[Gazza]

There is indeed no need for anyone to make Maguire a scapegoat, @SadlerMUFC . However, the manager has clearly decided that Maguire is not good enough to be first choice. We are much better with Varane and Martinez as our starting CBs. You agree with those statements, right?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

So he got 120 passes and he did feck all with them? Is that what you are trying to say to justify he did well?

So now your agenda is so strong you are looking for assists from your centre half or he's shite. Got it....

So tell me...how many key passes did Martinez have in the game seeing as that's how you rate your centre halves (for the record, I think Martinez is fantastic, I just don't scapegoat players when they've done nothing wrong)

 

[NK86]

You mean that time that he did actually feck up and ran back and made the tackle?

So Martinez replaced Maguire then??

Oh yes, put it on Luke Shaw as being the problem when he assisted the first goal.

Are you even reading what you are typing? Martinez came on and did in 20 mins what Maguire couldn't do in 90. That is the gulf in class between the two and if we are to win titles we need more players like Martinez than Maguire.

I don't get what are you trying to do in this thread. People think Maguire is not good enough for us if we want to win titles. Our performances this season without him are testimony to how well we play without him. Are you saying it's not true or you think there's no better and cheaper options out there to replace him as fourth/fifth choice CB?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

There is indeed no need for anyone to make Maguire a scapegoat, @SadlerMUFC . However, the manager has clearly decided that Maguire is not good enough to be first choice. We are much better with Varane and Martinez as our starting CBs. You agree with those statements, right?

Show me where I said that we weren't better off with Varane and Martinez as our starting CB's? I just don't like our players getting scapegoated when they've done nothing wrong and actually had a decent game...

 

[NK86]

So now your agenda is so strong you are looking for assists from your centre half or he's shite. Got it....

So tell me...how many key passes did Martinez have in the game seeing as that's how you rate your centre halves (for the record, I think Martinez is fantastic, I just don't scapegoat players when they've done nothing wrong)

Martinez played passes which completely cut open their midfield. Maybe you should watch the match again to refresh your memory.

Yeah, people here are expecting Maguire to be putting assists for us and that's why they think he is not good enough, for everything else he is a prime Rio and people are just not seeing it

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Oh yes, put it on Luke Shaw as being the problem when he assisted the first goal.

Are you even reading what you are typing? Martinez came on and did in 20 mins what Maguire couldn't do in 90. That is the gulf in class between the two and if we are to win titles we need more players like Martinez than Maguire.

I don't get what are you trying to do in this thread. People think Maguire is not good enough for us if we want to win titles. Our performances this season without him are testimony to how well we play without him. Are you saying it's not true or you think there's no better and cheaper options out there to replace him as fourth/fifth choice CB?

When did I say Shaw was a problem? I think SHaw is a fantastic player. All I said was that their best scoring chance came from a SHaw giveaway and if that was Maguire, theCaf would be going into meltdown

As for Martinez, again, I think he's great. Possibly the signing of the season along with Cassemiro. And I agree, Maguire shouldn't be our starting centre half if we want to win titles. However....as it stands right now, he is our second best RCB, and in order to win titles, it takes a team effort. So when the manager decides to rotate the squad, players like Maguire can become very important. And these players of ours will do a lot better if they can feel the support from our fans, not our fans trying to scapegoat them. My god, you'd think we tied 2-2 at home or something with the way people are bitching about Maguire's performance. He was solid. stop looking for the wrong and try just supporting the team for a change

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Martinez played passes which completely cut open their midfield. Maybe you should watch the match again to refresh your memory.

Yeah, people here are expecting Maguire to be putting assists for us and that's why they think he is not good enough, for everything else he is a prime Rio and people are just not seeing it

Strange considering he has 0 key passes in the game. But I guess you see what you want to see

Lisandro Martínez Match Statistics (whoscored.com)
Harry Maguire Match Statistics (whoscored.com)

 

[NK86]

When did I say Shaw was a problem? I think SHaw is a fantastic player. All I said was that their best scoring chance came from a SHaw giveaway and if that was Maguire, theCaf would be going into meltdown

As for Martinez, again, I think he's great. Possibly the signing of the season along with Cassemiro. And I agree, Maguire shouldn't be our starting centre half if we want to win titles. However....as it stands right now, he is our second best RCB, and in order to win titles, it takes a team effort. So when the manager decides to rotate the squad, players like Maguire can become very important. And these players of ours will do a lot better if they can feel the support from our fans, not our fans trying to scapegoat them. My god, you'd think we tied 2-2 at home or something with the way people are bitching about Maguire's performance. He was solid. stop looking for the wrong and try just supporting the team for a change

He is not our second best RCB. That's Lindelof and ETH agrees with that. Moreover, him being second/third best is not the point. Issue is he is not good enough for us if we want to reach where we want to be. He is slower than a snail and not at all suitable to how we want to play as a team - high line, high press.

His performance against Leeds did nothing to dispel that he is not good enough for us if we want to become title contenders again.

 

[Miro Karhan]

Should have a good career in the Championship

His ussage of the ball, time and space is bellow that standard unfortunatelly. If I was Luke Shaw, I´d tell ETH in no uncertain terms at the half time break that I dont wish to play alongside this guy anymore. Hospital passes galore, ten yards behind the line killing any kind of tempo, spreading panick.

Seems a decent lad Harry, but ETH looks to be building something progressive: top footie Erik wants to play. Cant do it with Harry. Im probably too harsh here, sorry, but Maguire has to be moved on sooner rather than later. Going to be difficult with his huge wages but ETH looks a man of principle.

 

[Gazza]

Show me where I said that we weren't better off with Varane and Martinez as our starting CB's? I just don't like our players getting scapegoated when they've done nothing wrong and actually had a decent game...

I don’t think Maguire was very good versus Leeds, just average. He gave the ball away needlessly a few times. My point was just that the general thrust of this thread is that Maguire is not good enough for Man United, and EtH has been vindicated in this viewpoint by putting his faith in two other CBs who are clearly better than Maguire.

I didn’t say that you said we weren’t better off with Varane and Martinez, was just clarifying your viewpoint on that matter.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

He is not our second best RCB. That's Lindelof and ETH agrees with that. Moreover, him being second/third best is not the point. Issue is he is not good enough for us if we want to reach where we want to be. He is slower than a snail and not at all suitable to how we want to play as a team - high line, high press.

His performance against Leeds did nothing to dispel that he is not good enough for us if we want to become title contenders again.

I was expressing my opinion. Apparently you have ETH in your whatsapp group and he told you he likes Lidelof more than Maguire. Got it....

BTW....remind me again what the score was in the game that Maguire played vs Leeds and the game that he didn't

 

[Winrar]

I was never a Maguire hater...but I really can't stand his playing style anymore.

Why is he always taking 4-5 touches on the ball before passing it sideways to the other centerback? It infurated me yesterday. He slows things down a lot nearly everytime he gets the ball.

This is the problem.

He always overthinks the next move, dwells on the ball a second too long, as a result always one step behind in the game's tempo - slowing our build-up play as well as inviting pressure, sometimes leading to costly mistakes.

He's just out of depth here, and even the most generous interpretation is that he's not suited to ETH's way of playing. It is what it is.

 

[NK86]

I was expressing my opinion. Apparently you have ETH in your whatsapp group and he told you he likes Lidelof more than Maguire. Got it....

BTW....remind me again what the score was in the game that Maguire played vs Leeds and the game that he didn't

ETH played Lindelof ahead of Maguire in all the games except for the Leeds one, but yeah let's pretend that means he loves Maguire too much to see him get potentially hurt on the field

Remind me again how many games we won and where we finished last season with Maguire as our first choice CB and captain? Also remind me how many titles has Maguire won as a player?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

ETH played Lindelof ahead of Maguire in all the games except for the Leeds one, but yeah let's pretend that means he loves Maguire too much to see him get potentially hurt on the field

Remind me again how many games we won and where we finished last season with Maguire as our first choice CB and captain? Also remind me how many titles has Maguire won as a player?

And there have been times when he played Maguire. Stop making opinion claims as fact.

As for your next part, you know you are losing when you have to make stuff up. I have not said anything about Maguire being a player we should be depending on all the time. I have clearly stated that Varance and Martinez are our best partnership at centre half. All that I did was call out United supporters for making it seem like Maguire was worse than he really was against Leeds. I said nothing about last year, and nothing about him being a player who should be starting. All i said is that he can play an important role as a part of the team, just like he did the yesterday against Leeds as this gave Varane a rest so he can be fresh for Barca...

 

[Miro Karhan]

Bit strange that Harry has an agent from Canada.

 

[NK86]

And there have been times when he played Maguire. Stop making opinion claims as fact.

As for your next part, you know you are losing when you have to make stuff up. I have not said anything about Maguire being a player we should be depending on all the time. I have clearly stated that Varance and Martinez are our best partnership at centre half. All that I did was call out United supporters for making it seem like Maguire was worse than he really was against Leeds. I said nothing about last year, and nothing about him being a player who should be starting. All i said is that he can play an important role as a part of the team, just like he did the yesterday against Leeds as this gave Varane a rest so he can be fresh for Barca...

I clearly asked you if you think Maguire is the best/cheapest option we can have for next season and you conveniently ignored the question. Maguire is not good enough for us even as a squad player if we want to win titles with the way we want to play with a high line, high press.

Not sure what's the problem with that statement when our team's performance as him being a first choice has been poor and we can have better and younger options to suit our style of play if we want a squad player who can then challenge Varane going forward as Maguire will never be at that level.

 

[Jippy]

ETH played Lindelof ahead of Maguire in all the games except for the Leeds one, but yeah let's pretend that means he loves Maguire too much to see him get potentially hurt on the field

Remind me again how many games we won and where we finished last season with Maguire as our first choice CB and captain? Also remind me how many titles has Maguire won as a player?

What has that got to do with anyone barring a tedious agenda? United haven't won a title in over 10 years.

Maguire isn't good enough and is being used as a squad player by ETH on the way to the exit. Some find the constant pile on onto one of our players tiresome and unpleasant though, particularly when people even find the need to make rubbish up to attack him with.

 

[King Kendrick]

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why stats always need to be contextualized

 

[NK86]

What has that got to do with anyone barring a tedious agenda? United haven't won a title in over 10 years.

Maguire isn't good enough and is being used as a squad player by ETH on the way to the exit. Some find the constant pile on onto one of our players tiresome and unpleasant though, particularly when people even find the need to make rubbish up to attack him with.

I responded to him saying that we kept a clean sheet with him in the team as some sort of validation of his performance/importance.

Anyway, I agree that he is hopefully on his way out as we need to improve our squad players' quality as well.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I clearly asked you if you think Maguire is the best/cheapest option we can have for next season and you conveniently ignored the question. Maguire is not good enough for us even as a squad player if we want to win titles with the way we want to play with a high line, high press.

Not sure what's the problem with that statement when our team's performance as him being a first choice has been poor and we can have better and younger options to suit our style of play if we want a squad player who can then challenge Varane going forward as Maguire will never be at that level.

I am not talking about next year, last year, tomorrow, or 15 minutes from now. All I was talking about was the game vs Leeds and how Maguire did a good job in that game. That's it. But your agenda is so strong you keep shifting the goal posts in some lame effort to try and be right....

 

[NK86]

I am not talking about next year, last year, tomorrow, or 15 minutes from now. All I was talking about was the game vs Leeds and how Maguire did a good job in that game. That's it. But your agenda is so strong you keep shifting the goal posts in some lame effort to try and be right....

His performance against Leeds was nothing to write home about. He was his usual self - dawdling on the ball, slowing the game down, getting closed down and losing possession in dangerous areas, leaving opposition players free in the box while marking no one, giving the ball away to the opponents with erratic passing, not good enough to progress our play from the back.

Yeah, he amazingly proved you right that he was good enough for us!!

Your original statement was he received 129 passes when someone said his passing was awful. A CB receiving the ball and not doing anything useful with it and putting the team under pressure is what's clear from that stat. You talked about his team mates passing to him more often as if that somehow justifies how shit his on the ball game was (and then somehow twisting it to say people expect him to assist when no one said anything remotely like that). Talk about lame and agenda.

 

[Sunny Jim]

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why stats always need to be contextualized

wait a second, does he count these 5 minutę cameos or what?

 

[Oranges038]

He was passed to 139 times by his team mates. Almost twice the amount that any other team mate was passed to. But where's your post about the other players taking the easy pass? What's the matter? Doesn't fit your agenda?

Why is every crticism labelled an agenda?

It was a clear plan for Leeds to force the ball towards him because they knew he'd do feck all with it and it worked. He doesn't operate with any speed so by the time he actually is ready to pass his options are severely limited.

You might think 85% passing accuracy is a good job, but those passes went no where. That's the point, the difference between his ponderous approach to passing out and Martinez in the second half was night and day.

 

[DickDastardly]

I'm just looking for people to stop scapegoating him. We kept a clean sheet and they had no chances through Maguire. In fact, their best chance was through a Luke Shaw give away. Had that been Maguire or had it been Maguire who scored the own goal mid week, theCaf would be going into meltdown. Meanwhile, Shaw and Varane do it and people still look for excuses to take the piss at Maguire. Bottom line is he had more touches than any player on the team. Almost twice as much as everyone else. But he didn't get the ball on his own. His teammates were passing to him. Why aren't you taking the piss at all the other players who passed it to him more than any other player?

You're kidding right?
Right?!

That 34' minute brain fart by yours dearest Harry doesn't count?

The one where Harrison takes the ball from him while he does his standard 16 second tanker manouver to try that signature back pass to DDG?

Then proceeds to run at snail speed and thankfully catches Harrison and we don't concede a dumb fecking goal.

But yeah, let's praise him for that, he didn't follow up with another brainfart and he managed not the give away a pen in the process.

Have you ever played football?
You know that one player? The one nobody marks because they know he'll just run out of play with the ball, or trip and fall over it without anyone around him?

Yep, that's old Harry right there.

The reason he has 197 or 250 passes or whatever is because (!) everybody knows he'll feck it up!!!

If the opposition plays a low block and counter attacking football, they will let Harry have as much of the ball as he wants.

If they play a high press, HE is the pressure trigger!

How can you not see that?!

Every other coach in the fecking league sees that!

 

[Pass and Move]

I am not talking about next year, last year, tomorrow, or 15 minutes from now. All I was talking about was the game vs Leeds and how Maguire did a good job in that game. That's it. But your agenda is so strong you keep shifting the goal posts in some lame effort to try and be right....

I genuinely don't understand how you could watch that game and not conclude that Maguire was a huge factor in our lack of penetration and composure for much of the match. Leeds allowed him time to receive the ball, knowing he'd be vulnerable and ineffective with it, that's the reason he had so many touches. Not because he was positioning himself well or being an integral part of our build-up. He's a liability.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He's become a total and utter meme.

The problem for him is: he's going to leave this summer - I don't think that's in doubt - but wherever he goes (it's obviously going to be in the PL), there is going to be massive scrutiny on him. I can see fans of another club getting on his back pretty quickly if he doesn't start well. He would be better off moving abroad, but no one will be willing to pay for him/his wages, outside of the PL.

I'm not a fan of his - never, ever have been - but he still has a good few years left playing at the top level, so hopefully he gets back on track.

 

[Lyng]

I have been one of Maguires biggest critics on here. My post count in this thread which is among the highest have primarily been a heavy critique of him.
But that was mostly before Ten Hag arrived.
He seems to have completely changed his attitude and he is clearly doing what he can when he gets a chance as a sub.
He was never good enough for United as a starter and we are much better when Varane is playing.
That having been said, I dont see any reason for the constant pile on. Ten Hag clearly agrees that he isnt fit as a starter for us if we want to win titles. But the bloke does his best when he is asked by Ten Hag to do a job and he seems quite humble about it. All we can ask is for him to do his best, even when that clearly isnt good enough for us.
He will most likely leave in the summer and I truly hope he goes somewhere, where his qualities match and that he gets a decent final few years of his career.

 

[crossy1686]

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why stats always need to be contextualized

"He does things you don't see"

Yeah but the things I do see give me nightmares.