John Terry was a world class defender and one of the best defenders in English leagues history. Comparison to Maguire shouldn't even be considered. It's common sense that top quality players earn themselves money in the bank for credit if they endure months of bad form. Maguire being criticized for his performances is just he's a sports professional it comes with the territory. Abuse however no player should endure irrespective of what level, form or status.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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He had me fooled in 2018 and judging by the fee paid, the United scouts and management too. In general though his performances with England have been much better than those with us.
You are going to far! We bought Van Buyten instead of Nesta. Maguire is a good footballer but depending on how you play as a team he will need shielding and he isn't worth it. There are many teams that would be good with Maguire, he is for example no worse than Raul Albiol, of course we are talking about different players but I don't think that the level is that different.Where did you come from ?
You're comparing Maguire who was never good enough to play for Utd to Terry who was one of the best defenders in the world? Maguire had crazy support here at the beginning where people were shitting on Lindelof, Shaw and others for his own shortcomings. He was almost always excused by a large minority on this forum for all sorts of mistakes - costly or not. It's crazy how some of you can't even admit we made a mistake by buying a fecking Titus Bramble while expecting John Terry levels of performances.
He really wasnt, he was always in really good teams. You need to revaluate that
I dont think Maguire suits us but the fecking abuse he gets is unreal.
He's absolute scum as a man but on the pitch as a Premier League centreback, Harry isn't fit to lace his boots...
The truly mental part is that he's probably not even one of our top 5 most abused players over the last few years...
Everybody loves to hate United
His Leicester time is a bit more questionable than people suggest. In 16-17 they conceded 63 goals, in 17-18 during his first season they conceded 60 goals, in 18-19 they conceded 48 goals and in 19-20 without him they conceded 41 goals.
Now of course goals conceded isn't based on a single player but isn't it a bit strange that his presence or absence doesn't actually make a substantial difference?
I followed his career right from his debut for Chelsea to his retirement. He was absolutely world class, especially in his prime years.
How is he a good footballer? At what is he good at? Despite his size he's so pathetically bad at heading the ball, he needs 2-3 touches to make a pass, he's slow, his decision making is also mediocre.
Leicester even improved when they sold him to us. We bought a squad rotation player thinking we got a world class player.
Im not comparing them I just always found Terry overrated and many top managers singled him out as a weak point for both Ingerlund and Chewsea
That's all that's needed to be said on that matter. We aren't talking about a players ability we are talking about the level of support they received from the home fans
You said "While some of the criticism has boiled over into abuse; 99% of it is fair and just." That can be read two ways
I'm not tarring anybody. I've said several times now that he shouldn't be free from criticism but the criticism should be fair and just. What he shouldn't be getting from our own fans is the level of abuse he has received.
I genuinely couldn’t care less if you think I’ve had a nightmare in this thread. Digging myself how? By saying a player who is receiving untold amounts of abuse should be protected from it? One of our own players no less.
Also. How am I getting emotional? You are just throwing words about now in the hope that some stick. I’m simply speaking the truth. As a fan base we have treated Maguire horrifically. We should be ashamed of how we’ve treated him. You and others will look back on this and this and even though you won’t admit it publicly, you will say the abuse went to far and it was unwarranted.
Not even the best cb at the club.
Anyways this thread is peaking now, were bigging up england lion JT
And loads were criticising him for it too
In a low block, he is a solid defender that consistently wins duels. He is defensive headings are also good. Now I agree with the points you highlighted which are part of my point, he isn't versatile, you can't expect him to play in a system that ask CBs defend large amount of space, he doesn't have the athleticism nor the awareness linked to that type of defending and he isn't a ball player but that's true for most average to good defenders. And that's where a competent manager makes a big difference, if you expose players something crazy will happen, they will be exposed.
Now keep in mind we both agree on his deficiencies and I assume that we both agree on the idea that he isn't good enough for us to change things for him but it would be dishonest to act as if he was a bad player because he isn't. He isn't made for top level Football though, by that I mean serious CL teams, unless he finds his way to Simeone's low block and narrow defense.
Pogba was absolutely lambasted for taking responsibility after a game, was it Norwich under Mourinho?And loads were criticising him for it too
Only if you struggle with comprehension or English isn't your first language.
If it's the latter it's an easy mistake to make, but if it's the former you need to slow down and apply a modicum of critical thinking.
I'd wager your abuse agenda has led you to misinterpret my point.
Thinking the abuse is getting out of hand doesn't mean you have to coddle the guy.
No one is being reprimanded for not backing him. I was saying, I think the abuse he's getting is going over the top. You can't go anywhere without seeing a Maguire meme on how shite he is.We paid 80million for all those pro's
And it was a bad idea because those pros were barely worth half of 80m. There is no doubt that the transfer was bad but it doesn't mean that the player is.
I do think Terry's absolute peak level is a bit overrated, but he was consistently one of the best defenders in the league for a long time. There's been quite a few who I think reached a higher level (Rio, Vidic, Stam, VVD, Kompany, Campbell, etc), but off the top of my head I can't think of any other defender who was as good as Terry for as long as he was. I'll give him credit for that.
Does he not say that then?
Curious choice - Albiol while past his prime, is much better positionally and with the ball. Try another.
Neither covered himself in glory, but Slab Head didn't need to do anything and did the absolute wrong thing. Sign of a low football IQReally?
So you are fine with the central midfielders not tracking their men?
No, I'm fine with Raul Albiol who was during his prime good but not very good. It's a player who outside of a purple patch wasn't good enough for a top team.
Again, his choices were do what he did, or allow the German player to turn and have ten yards of space on the edge of the box.
Which one do you think is the better option? Baring in mind Maguire had a split second to decide and you've had 24 hours and countless replays.
I think I know which one is the better option, that actually shows fairly good awareness, but of course that would rely on midfielders tracking their runners correctly to actually be fully effective, which didn't happen.
I’m aware that in that area of the pitch, based on how the players were set up positionally the instruction was clearly to contain and try to counter. Hence why the 3 CM’s were in a triangle that made it easy for them to receive the ball and counter.Really?
So you are fine with the central midfielders not tracking their men?
The one CM who was given the job of trying to nick the ball back IF the opportunity came was Rice, but again once the ball was in that area and with the CB’s and FB’s in a solid line/block it was no longer his job to recklessly track back because everything appeared under control. Just like there’s an area where the defenders stop needlessly running forward in the attacking phase, there is also an area and situation where the CM’s stop recklessly running back trying to win back the ball in the defensive phase.
The Racists captain who shagged his teammates girlfriends. Top lad.Not even the best cb at the club.
Anyways this thread is peaking now, were bigging up england lion JT
I don't dislike the guy but he's not good enough for Utd, should not be our captain and is stealing a living at 200k a week. ETH knew that very quickly.
Southgate will still pick him for England though as he's a favourite while the likes of Tomori who is so much better will be left out. You can't really blame Maguire for that though if Southgate is stupid enough to keep picking him it's he who deserves the abuse not Maguire.
Southgate will still pick him for England though as he's a favourite while the likes of Tomori who is so much better will be left out. You can't really blame Maguire for that though if Southgate is stupid enough to keep picking him it's he who deserves the abuse not Maguire.
A CM recklessly tracking back?
I've heard it all now!
If you're fine with opposition players picking the ball up ten yards from the edge of the box unopposed, being allowed to turn in space with zero pressure then that's cool, but we saw what happened when they do a few minutes after that situation!
I think of you sincerely believe that a player picking the ball up unopposed in that situation is fine, and not expecting CMs to 'recklessly' track back to create a defensive overload there really isn't anything to discuss, as that's basics of football in my opinion.
Any half decent Central Half should be reading that situation, Maguire shouldn't have gone touch tight the way he did, if he had to step up(a wee bit but not touch tight) he still should be shadowing the runner by standing between the half spaces, if the pass doesn't go to the runner, by the time the ball receiver turns his face to face with the defender only a few yards away, which should give the defender the chance to block the angle for a shot or pass, presumably this also buys the whole team time to reset into a better defensive position.A CM recklessly tracking back?
I've heard it all now!
If you're fine with opposition players picking the ball up ten yards from the edge of the box unopposed, being allowed to turn in space with zero pressure then that's cool, but we saw what happened when they do a few minutes after that situation!
I think of you sincerely believe that a player picking the ball up unopposed in that situation is fine, and not expecting CMs to 'recklessly' track back to create a defensive overload there really isn't anything to discuss, as that's basics of football in my opinion.
As that video footage pointed out you don't go touch tight unless you're either going to win the ball or read the next pass and intercept it or at the very least break the play up by giving away a free-kick.
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Which is all fine in hindsight, when you've had a day and a half to process the situation.
Maguire had a split second, and in that second he made the right call to step up. He would have expected someone to go with the runner, they didn't , that's not on him.
And no, you don't want to give a free-kick away there, that's ridiculous. It's in a perfect position for a shot (which the German player would have been also had Maguire not stepped up).
If i were harry..
1) I'll leave tweeter and stop reading reports about post games and media stuffs for awhile. Step down from captainships.
2) hire world's best private sports psychotherapist, shrinks.. work with them to identify the confidence issues.
3) put my head down and double down on training and proof everyone wrong or at least I'll die knowing i tried my best.
4) retire with dignity and write an autobiography on social media traumas.
But no, you have to blame everyone else. And this are the kinda things that dug the hole for you harry.
1) I'll leave tweeter and stop reading reports about post games and media stuffs for awhile. Step down from captainships.
2) hire world's best private sports psychotherapist, shrinks.. work with them to identify the confidence issues.
3) put my head down and double down on training and proof everyone wrong or at least I'll die knowing i tried my best.
4) retire with dignity and write an autobiography on social media traumas.
But no, you have to blame everyone else. And this are the kinda things that dug the hole for you harry.
What abuse we're talking about here? Other than he's a shit footballer i dont think the fans ever abuse him on a personal level
That and how he handled the media, which is cocky and deservedly gets called.
That and how he handled the media, which is cocky and deservedly gets called.
I think it's got so bad now that the justifiable criticism of his performances and the abuse he is recieveing (mainly so social media) are becoming indistinguishable.
Once the media turn, and they're beginning to, I think it will destroy him. I'm not even looking at him as a footballer now, I'm looking at him as a human and wondering how the gell he is going to get through this.
Twitter or facebook should just be ignored. Every playes got abuse in that cesspit it's hardly a good barometer.
Nobody here insult him beyond his performance.
If you're taking into account instagrams and twitter hell i think even messi got abused
How he get thru this? Play up, put up, chin up or shut up. Just like 99.9% population handled their job. If i give his level of performance at work I'd be shown the door with mouths to feed.
I honestly don't think he's been as bad as many make him out to be.
It's that every single mistake, no matter how minor is highlighted and people get exasperated with him over an error that happens to every player in every game. Ive said it before but he even gets criticised when he does something right (the yellow card against Arsenal) Because of this it's a long road back for Maguire, to be honest I'm not even sure he will ever play for us on the regular again.
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't have him in my starting 11 but I also think he would be a fantastic back up to Varane and Martinez.
Tbh the discussion is getting boring.
This is one of the craziest threads in redcafe.
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