Straight swap for Pulisic?
5
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This I agree on. And if he is happy being a squad option its a very nice squad option to have. But I doubt he will be happy with that, especially with the world cup coming up.
Personally I dont see him coming back into this team barring injuries to Varane (which of course is a very real posibility)
Yep only 100m Attackers on the bench are entertained by oil clubs.
Or £60m defenders with Laporte
Or £75m Gk with Chelsea.
Why keep an option that isn’t useful though? We were 4-0 down at half time in the last game he played and we look terrible when he plays.
Any game we seriously want to win, he isn’t an option. Better to sell and bring in a 4th CB as backup.
If Chelsea are paying £40 million or more for Maguire, that's an indication that buying someone else is going to be very difficult.
You can't hold a single player responsible for the entire team's poor performance, especially when that player was one of the better performers in the backline.
For me, dropping Ronaldo and replacing him with Rashford at centre forward had far more impact on the side than dropping Maguire, as it allowed us to exploit the gaps in behind due to Liverpool's dangerously high line. We wouldn't have been able to do that with Ronnie in the central striker role, as he would likely have been isolated due to us being on the back foot for the majority of the game under their high press.
The intensity and work rate from our front line (Elanga, Rashford and Sancho) was integral to the win last night.
I wouldn't have predicted that things would go quite this badly for him, but even at the time, it was so obviously a horrible decision to pay £80m for him. We could have bought any CB in the world (who didn't play for Liverpool or City) for that money. We could have got almost any CB in the world for significantly less than that!
He's a better player than he's shown in the last year, maybe the price tag and captaincy put too much pressure on him. Either way, I see no way he's gonna turn it around here.
He's a better player than he's shown in the last year, maybe the price tag and captaincy put too much pressure on him. Either way, I see no way he's gonna turn it around here.
Pau Torres is available for around £50m, and we have Menghi and Tuanzebe anyway
One of his better nights last night.
I'm not even 100% he's going to be 3rd ahead of lindeof when he's fit.
He seems like a CB that eth will like while slabhead is slow and ponderous on the ball.
He seems like a CB that eth will like while slabhead is slow and ponderous on the ball.
Of course, but we've already done this with Pogba where he saw out his contract after a world record fee and we got nothing for him. Plenty of teams have had to stomach losses on players who have turned to shit like Torres at Chelsea, Pepe at Arsenal, Coutinho at Barcelona to name a few. We over paid for him and we're stuck with him for now, unless he sorts his head out and turns it back round again.
I think he will be used more against physical teams so him and Varane will play. For example, Martinez struggled against Brentford and Liverpool didn’t have a physical presence up front so that helped. Plus with the sheer amount of games including cups and Europa, there will need to be rotation of the squad.
Menghi with no experience of first team football who seems to be behind Fish for the first team and then Tuanzebe who was so good he sat on Napoli’s bench all season. No guarantees Villarreal will let Torres leave with one week in the window and we seem to be targeting attackers for the rest of the window. Also no guarantees we want Torres or he wants to come here to also be behind Varane and Martinez.
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I think Shaw and Maguire have been coasting on poor performance for quite some time and the difference was stark last night.
There is just no room for a sluggish, less mobile CB that dwells on the ball in a system like the one on display last night.
He doesn’t have the profile for the football that this manager wants to play. It’s better to move him on now and now embarrass him any further.
Some non-oil clubs are more than happy to bench £100m wingers and even loan out £140m players too.
Utter nonsense! Embarrass us???The whole team was poor last season. Prior to that Maguire and Shaw played well with Shaw having one of his best seasons. This hatred of our players and the language used is pathetic. The only embarrassing thing is the state of these posts. I’ll let the manager decide what players are fit for his system.
I wasn't convinced Maguire was that good for us in that season that we finished 2nd. It's not entirely his fault but we conceded 40+ goals in the league that season. His best season, in my opinion, was his first season (and he still had a few 'mares even then-against Giroud in the FA cup semi final for instance).
Still think he will play a lot of game this season and could be an important player for us but last night's defence gave me a lot of hope going forward.
Still think he will play a lot of game this season and could be an important player for us but last night's defence gave me a lot of hope going forward.
So your counter is a massive error that Chelsea can't get rid of and a £60m defender that is there or thereabouts what City spend on defenders?
And mentioning an attacker when defenders were stated in isolation?
Are you supposed to be making a point here or strengthening mine?
Listing defensive errors from other clubs points to what exactly, us being fine doing the same, or are you in fact arguing that it's would be a perfectly normal state of affairs to have an £80m defender sat on the bench and used like a specialist kicker or something of the sort?
I am arguing saying mistakes are made and its football, tough.
The club decided to pay a huge fee, the club have to face the consequence of a 80m defender on the bench.
Regardless of price, if he isn't good enough, he doesn't start.
Just 99%, eh?
i wouldn't go that far
. I just remember never being that convinced by the partnership with him and Lindelof and neither were most people i think; most people on here were looking for a scapegoat as to why the defence looked insecure at times and it was *Lindelof that got the brunt of it if i remember correctly. There was lots of "oh my god, did you see how great Bailly was against Aston Villa" and "Tuanzebe deserves a start".*not that Lindelof was much better mind
Just can't get with that. At those prices you either start or you are sold. By 'even' oil clubs, at least to them it doesn't even matter what their toys do or do not do, for us, it should be a far bigger deal. It's not just the fee itself, but the wages.
People might not want a Lindelof or a Jones here, but at least their wages and overall fee are in line with what a defensive bench option should cost you (us, as City and Pep's defensive carousel is a joke).
Interesting how you ignored the Ronaldo being dropped point and elected to have a go at Maguire instead.
Redcafe
I'm happy to continue with Varane + Martinez at the heart of our defence. They have a lot to offer as a partnership moving forward, but they'll need to rest from time to time to prevent burnout and remain free from injury. And Maguire, an internationally recognized footballer with tonnes of PL experience, can provide that rest by stepping in when needed.
He's useful for the physical sides too. Liverpool likes to keep it on the deck which plays to Varane and Martinez's strengths, but we won't be playing them every week. It's good to have options we can call on when necessary.
So what you do is you sell him and bring in a replacement that will maintain the levels that we are aspiring to, not just do a job. We need strength in depth. What's the point in bringing him on to then put yourself in a precarious position.
Yes of course but not with a week left of the window when we are clearly chasing other options however I'm sure if ETH didn't want him, he would have said so and asked for another defender but he hasn't.
I'd rather have kept Bailly and shipped Maguire out on loan, if possible. I can see Lindelof outdoing him for third choice even.
He's not very bright.
I think we'll probably sell him in January. Then we'll sign Timber
Thinking about it, Maguire is one of our few players who doesn't get better in fans' eyes when he doesn't play a few games.i wouldn't go that far
*not that Lindelof was much better mind
I'm intrigued by how much Chelsea offered, if the discussion got to that stage.
The problem with Maguire is that he's really crap. The good thing about it is he never gets injured. In my opinion if we get a good offer then we should sell. Else we should keep him and then try to sell him in January/next year when Timber is availableInteresting how you ignored the Ronaldo being dropped point and elected to have a go at Maguire instead.
Redcafe
I'm happy to continue with Varane + Martinez at the heart of our defence. They have a lot to offer as a partnership moving forward, but they'll need to rest from time to time to prevent burnout and remain free from injury. And Maguire, an internationally recognized footballer with tonnes of PL experience, can provide that rest by stepping in when needed.
He's useful for the physical sides too. Liverpool likes to keep it on the deck which plays to Varane and Martinez's strengths, but we won't be playing them every week. It's good to have options we can call on when necessary.
I wouldn't get too carried away. Varane has shown us he can't be relied upon to stay fit, so I expect to see Maguire again soon enough.
The only reason why he was even semi successful here was because his style of play suited Ole's counter attacking philosophy. He was shielded by two holding mids (Fred and Mctominay) while playing a deeper back line. Now we have a manager who wants to play aggressive, high line and on the front foot. He just doesn't have the qualities or the speed to play this system. If you even look at the goal we conceded to Brighton, he doesn't have the basic awareness of where the attackers are or what run they are trying to make. He's going to be phased out slowly and I wouldn't be shocked if he's gone next season.
All this is well and good, but watching the game last night it was quite clear what Martinez and Varane bring that Maguire simply can't. There was aggression in the tackle, being proactive in snuffing out danger before it materializes, there was quick releases of passes, and speed across the ground. Maguire is slow, not just across the ground, but in his head. He always seems to react to danger, rather than anticipate it.
ETH put it succinctly before the game: mobility and agility. I feel a lot of that is as much in the head as in the body.
I've said it before, but when it comes to one-on-one defending, I have absolutely no faith in Maguire. He never seems in control like even VVD was last night at times despite his overall shit performance. I'd rather Varane or Martinez in that position.
Homegrown Player Rule (England):
The Premier League proposed a maximum of 17 non-"homegrown" players in each club squad, and the squad size is a maximum of 25. This means that in a full squad of 25 players, there must be at least eight homegrown players
- Homegrown players in a top-flight 25-man squad be increased from eight to 12, two of whom must be brought up in the team's youth system.
- Tightening the definition of what it is to be a homegrown player as a consequence fewer foreign-born players would qualify.
His confidence is gone and he has become a meme. How does it benefit him to stay here and continue to be Captain? He needs to move on for the good of his career.
Shaw has had far more poor games for United than he has had great ones since he arrived. He has constantly been unfit and looked overweight a lot of the time
It’s not “utter nonsense” just because you disagree with it. The manager has decided, by the looks of things.
It is only a job. There players will get other contracts elsewhere. It’s this sentimentality that holds the club back and means that we keep players who are ill-fitted and don’t have the required quality for way, way too long.
Calm down, people are allowed to disagree with you on what’s good for the club.
Keeping a 50m rated player simply because he's British is a bit silly isn't it? If needs be we sell and add an English talent. Its a shame that the morons leading us has allowed Spence to move to Spurs. He was dirt cheap.
Please stop referring to a player having experience and playing for his country as some boon as to why he should garner playing time.Interesting how you ignored the Ronaldo being dropped point and elected to have a go at Maguire instead.
Redcafe
I'm happy to continue with Varane + Martinez at the heart of our defence. They have a lot to offer as a partnership moving forward, but they'll need to rest from time to time to prevent burnout and remain free from injury. And Maguire, an internationally recognized footballer with tonnes of PL experience, can provide that rest by stepping in when needed.
He's useful for the physical sides too. Liverpool likes to keep it on the deck which plays to Varane and Martinez's strengths, but we won't be playing them every week. It's good to have options we can call on when necessary.
Agreed. I've said for a few years now we are the most sentimental club in the world, and coupling that with bad leadership post SAF has driven the club into the ground. People are constantly looking for the next romantic story a la the class of 92 instead of recognizing quickly when players don't have what it takes and moving on.
Well, he's not a starter. So it's either that, or he goes.
Rules are rules. I mean, let's not pretend Tom Heaton is our current number 2 for any other reason than his nationality. I'm fairly certain the same logic applies to Jones.
I think it's a perfectly valid reason to keep him on the books. You're welcome to disagree.
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