Harry Maguire involved in incident with police in Greece - conviction nullified by appeal, full retrial pending

[sammsky1]

Some judge you are.

 

[Dante]

Yes thats what the police said . I don't know if thats true or not i dont know if the police asked her if she was drugged but i did not say the sister told the police she wasn't drugged which is what i was accussed of saying.

This is bringing out the worst in people on here . You doubt a guy's story and you are accused of not being a United fan or not liking white people .

Madness

It was a question specifically directed at you, in relation to your posting history. You've shown in the past that you factor it into your thinking about Maguire (as well as lots of other players). I can't be arsed trawling through all your messages, but here are a couple of examples.

What is this "he's a leader " nonsense that gets trotted out as a reason to buy these players

What about Maguire makes him a leader other than he is English and white ?

I don't even think it is being English

You don't see Nathan Ake being called a leader even though he is a better defender .

Are Utd players like Pogba and Fernandes supposed to be inspired by Maguire because he sometimes wins a few headers ?

He is a truly shocking player has no pace at all and is beaten far too easily when he is in position.

He is extremely lucky he is english and white as the media would be all over him calling him the worst transfer in premiership history otherwise.

As it is every mistake is just blamed on other players not covering for him being useless as hey he is our Harry and a "leader "

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Maybe he put some balm on his legs and his lawyer is fuming?

 

[Gasolin]

Yes thats what the police said . I don't know if thats true or not i dont know if the police asked her if she was drugged but i did not say the sister told the police she wasn't drugged which is what i was accussed of saying.

This is bringing out the worst in people on here . You doubt a guy's story and you are accused of not being a United fan or not liking white people .

Madness

Incredible that we are doing this but let's do some Cartesian logic here.

1. You think Maguire is lying.
His lies include the fact that the sister was drugged and therefore, he was scared and acted accordingly.
Here's your quote to mention that Maguire's story doesn't add up and therefore, he's lying.

"His story is obviously nonsense . None of the things he is saying adds up at all."

2. Now, you quoted:
"Police are saying they interviewed the sister and she never mentioned being drugged ."

From there, your stance is to say that you "don't know if thats true or not" you "dont know if the police asked her if she was drugged but" you "did not say the sister told the police she wasn't drugged".

Here's the problem:
1. You acknowledge, or more likely believe, that the police interviewed the sister.
2. You believe that the police never asked her if she was drugged or not
3. But the police said she never mentioned being drugged
4. However, your stance is that you didn't say the sister told the police she wasn't drugged

A. If the police interviewed the sister, and you believe them when they say she never mentioned being drugged, it means that by transition, you're saying Maguire's story that the sister was drugged is wrong.

B. If the sister was indeed drugged, and she shared it to the police, and they still said she did not mention being drugged, the police is now lying.

C. If the sister was drugged, but somehow, she failed to share with the police, and the police never asked about it because they did not want to ask that, it raises some questions:
- Why not mention it, when it is a point of contention?
- I go back to the family story. In which family do you find a sister who is going to not share a story that could help her brother to not be considered a criminal given the circumstances and the highly emotional state? Again, do you have family like that?

D. If the sister was never interviewed by the police, as claimed by the Maguire family, it raises another question: why does the police lie?

In the way you "think", you seem to go for C, where you don't know if she was drugged or not, but you choose to believe the police who did not ask about the drugs, and simply said that the sister never mentioned the drugs. Despite the logical flaw of thinking that a family member would harm Maguire's defense that way.

Now if your logic doesn't work because we agree that a family member would never harm Maguire's defense by not mentioning the drugs, then you have to wonder: why does the police say that she did not mention it? Did the interview really happen? If it did not, why? Now, is it really Maguire's side of the story that doesn't add up, or the Greek police?

There, I hope it helps.

 

[united_99]

Incredible that we are doing this but let's do some Cartesian logic here.

1. You think Maguire is lying.
His lies include the fact that the sister was drugged and therefore, he was scared and acted accordingly.
Here's your quote to mention that Maguire's story doesn't add up and therefore, he's lying.

"His story is obviously nonsense . None of the things he is saying adds up at all."

2. Now, you quoted:
"Police are saying they interviewed the sister and she never mentioned being drugged ."

From there, your stance is to say that you "don't know if thats true or not" you "dont know if the police asked her if she was drugged but" you "did not say the sister told the police she wasn't drugged".

Here's the problem:
1. You acknowledge, or more likely believe, that the police interviewed the sister.
2. You believe that the police never asked her if she was drugged or not
3. But the police said she never mentioned being drugged
4. However, your stance is that you didn't say the sister told the police she wasn't drugged

A. If the police interviewed the sister, and you believe them when they say she never mentioned being drugged, it means that by transition, you're saying Maguire's story that the sister was drugged is wrong.

B. If the sister was indeed drugged, and she shared it to the police, and they still said she did not mention being drugged, the police is now lying.

C. If the sister was drugged, but somehow, she failed to share with the police, and the police never asked about it because they did not want to ask that, it raises some questions:
- Why not mention it, when it is a point of contention?
- I go back to the family story. In which family do you find a sister who is going to not share a story that could help her brother to not be considered a criminal given the circumstances and the highly emotional state? Again, do you have family like that?

D. If the sister was never interviewed by the police, as claimed by the Maguire family, it raises another question: why does the police lie?

In the way you "think", you seem to go for C, where you don't know if she was drugged or not, but you choose to believe the police who did not ask about the drugs, and simply said that the sister never mentioned the drugs. Despite the logical flaw of thinking that a family member would harm Maguire's defense that way.

Now if your logic doesn't work because we agree that a family member would never harm Maguire's defense by not mentioning the drugs, then you have to wonder: why does the police say that she did not mention it? Did the interview really happen? If it did not, why? Now, is it really Maguire's side of the story that doesn't add up, or the Greek police?

There, I hope it helps.

Can’t believe you invested that much time and energy in replying to someone who based on his / her posts (not only in this thread) comes across as a very bitter rival fan pretending to be a United fan.
Your patience should be applauded!

 

[Robbo*]

This thread deserves to go to prison.

half full of people that don’t support united, half full of people who only know the half of it

 

[Dominos]

Another thing I'm wondering is where is the actual link between the first incident with the sister getting drugged, and the 2nd incident with the police? After the drugging incident they got in a minibus and were driving for 5-10 minutes when suddenly the bus pulls over and they found themselves surrounded by police. Did the police track down the minibus to question his group over the "fight" outside the bar 10 minutes earlier?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Funny arguments from both sides.

Believing the Greek police version blindly is as dumb as believing everything Maguire is saying is true because he is almost in tears in a TV interview. Lawyers obviously came with the whole idea of giving the interview. Makes sense they trained him as well.

 

[noodlehair]

As I mentioned before they’ve had to introduce quick fire prosecutions for misdemeanors in the Netherlands in order to be able process the ridiculous amount of cases of Brits getting in trouble in Amsterdam. Maybe they’ve done the same in Greece?

No idea but a fair trial in this instance clearly ends in a not guilty verdict. A court of law is there to prove guilt, not assume it.

The evidence that was presented can barely be called evidence, never mind proof. It's a couple of witness statements that make absolutely no sense and are only even credible as not being completely made up if you believe that Harry Maguire doesn't know how to speak in English properly.

The fact there was no time to prepare a defence or even produce a full set of evidence is a seperate issue, but again a fair trial in a court of law throws the case out on that basis until the police do their job properly. There are supposedly phone call records and whatsapp messages on Maguire's phone which would make a complete nonsense of the version of events presented by the prosecution. There is CCTV footage which was not presented as evidence. There will have been witnesses at the bar, at the police station, etc. I mean I'm not a lawyer and I could rip this apart fairly easily.

I don't know the process in Greece and it might be it's standard to fast track similar to a magistrates and then deal with the cases where there is doubt on appeal, but we have the two sides of the story and we have the case the prosecution presented in court and tbh it's made me change my mind completely. My first reaction to all this was Maguire is a blithering idiot but when the police are just blatantly making things up you do have to wonder if he really did anything at all, otherwie there'd be no need for the police to lie.

Even if it is standard to fast track cases it's really weird to get a guilty verdict on multiple charges when there is not even any collaborative evidence to support a single one of the charges. Generally you'd need more evidence that that to end up with a speeding fine.

 

[Wibble]

Those legs have not been beaten brutally.

He never claimed to be brutally beaten. Hit in the legs does mean brutally beaten.

 

[Wibble]

No idea but a fair trial in this instance clearly ends in a not guilty verdict. A court of law is there to prove guilt, not assume it.

The evidence that was presented can barely be called evidence, never mind proof. It's a couple of witness statements that make absolutely no sense and are only even credible as not being completely made up if you believe that Harry Maguire doesn't know how to speak in English properly.

The fact there was no time to prepare a defence or even produce a full set of evidence is a seperate issue, but again a fair trial in a court of law throws the case out on that basis until the police do their job properly. There are supposedly phone call records and whatsapp messages on Maguire's phone which would make a complete nonsense of the version of events presented by the prosecution. There is CCTV footage which was not presented as evidence. There will have been witnesses at the bar, at the police station, etc.

I don't know the process in Greece and it might be it's standard to fast track similar to a magistrates and then deal with the cases where there is doubt on appeal, but we have the two sides of the story and we have the case the prosecution presented in court and tbh it's made me change my mind completely. My first reaction to all this was Maguire is a blithering idiot but when the police are just blatantly making things up you do have to wonder if he really did anything at all.

Even if it is standard to fast track cases it's really weird to get a guilty verdict on multiple charges when there is not even any collaborative evidence to support a single one of the charges. Generally you'd need more evidence that that to end up with a speeding fine.

Agreed

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Now I do want to believe Harry. Seems a little daft to be wearing shorts in this interview considering his legs reveal zero bruising. Nothing.

He is claiming they hit his legs saying his career was over, causing him to fear for his life.

He is either exaggerating massively how they hit his legs, or lying.

Those legs have not been beaten brutally.

This is not me wanting him to be guilty. Of course I don’t. But it’s suspect.

Why does he need to have bruising? I don’t get why a person needs to be found not guilty only if he’s being beaten brutally? Your logic is just weird mate.

Do the cops that got involved with him and called themselves the victim also have bruises?

 

[starman]

Now I do want to believe Harry. Seems a little daft to be wearing shorts in this interview considering his legs reveal zero bruising. Nothing.

He is claiming they hit his legs saying his career was over, causing him to fear for his life.

He is either exaggerating massively how they hit his legs, or lying.

Those legs have not been beaten brutally.

This is not me wanting him to be guilty. Of course I don’t. But it’s suspect.

Do you say these same dumb things after a boxer or MMA has had a fight but doesn't have any bruises?

You seem to have it in your mind they were at the point of crippling him

 

[noodlehair]

Yes because they are completely independent of each other. Plenty of examples of corruption in the EU incl the UK (read the Private Eye) in the civil courts & civil service. Corruption in the criminal juridical system would imply that the criminal courts do not act independently and that would be in direct violation of EU constitution. Human rights and all that. In other words, you’re making some very serious accusations about Greece. Anyway, let’s debate the behavior of Brits abroad instead..

I've sat on Jury service here a few times now and dated a lawyer, and although I wouldn't say there's been evidence of any corruption within the court system, it is definitely manipulated by the police and the CPS in terms of how they present evidence and what evidence they choose to present. Evidence that doesn't support the narrative seems to conveniently disappear quite a lot, and often the defence have a hard time convincing a jury to be suspicious of why.

I also think it's a flawed system as considering it's 2020 and every fecker has a camera, and you can basically get data on exactly where every person is at every second of every day, it relies far too heavily on unreliable or biased eyewitness testimonies.

I've also sat on a Jury where two people wanted to find someone guilty of manslaughter despite laughable evidence, just because they "saw the victim's mother crying in the gallery"...you can't even report this to anyone as you're not even allowed to speak to the judge about what goes on when deliberating. .

I don't even go out in London on a Saturday anymore due to the number of coked up British "lads" who just seem to be looking for a fight. One of my favourite things about holidays in Europe is I go to places where these sort of people aren't, so it's quite easy to understand why they're not the most popular type of tourist.

 

[Ali Dia]

Some judge you are.

 

[Tarrou]

I believe the guy based on that interview

though I expect there is a bit more too it that Maguire probably can't talk about

but whether you believe him or not there is no way of knowing for sure, so no point arguing about it

 

[Drainy]

Do you say these same dumb things after a boxer or MMA has had a fight but doesn't have any bruises?

You seem to have it in your mind they were at the point of crippling him

I know. You see footballers get kicked all over the place during matches, sometimes by much larger men but you don't often see bruises at the next match..

 

[Drainy]

As an attorney I can endorse this as a legally accurate summation of the factual and procedural history.

I don't get their motivation, unless they were physically embarrassed and couldn't take it. However 'incompetent and insecure cops coordinate with prosecutor they work with to cover up incompetence and resolve x motivation' has more of a ring of truth to it than the polices account given the nature and history of the person involved and a lack of video being leaked to prove otherwise.

 

[Terminator]

To the ones saying ofcousre he has been sent to do this staged interview, he simply could've chosen not to do this.

He could've literally said nothing and this thing would be dead in a few weeks.

 

[RedDevil@84]

To the ones saying ofcousre he has been sent to do this staged interview, he simply could've chosen not to do this.

He could've literally said nothing and this thing would be dead in a few weeks.

Huh? He has an appeal he needs to win. He will do everything his lawyers say. If a full fledged interview will help his case, he will do it.

By the way, I don't believe he is lying or anything some posters here are saying, but just pointing out that lawyers pretty much dictate what to say and how to behave to get favorable stuff in the case

 

[RedRonaldo]

If Maguire was found guilty in retrial again, can he appeal for another retrial to have the innocent status back? How many times can he appeal? And is it possible to get worst sentence after retrial, or same sentence?

 

[Member 101269]

I watched the interview, the club need to offer him counselling

 

[Raees]

The way people are so quick to judge you’d think they were there at the scene. How about some patience until we get some more concrete evidence as to what transpired rather than rushing to blame our player for being a cnut.

 

[murali_red]

He seems totally genuine there

Can someone share the link to watch or download the full interview, I'm not from UK and unable to find

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

https://www.redcafe.net/search/203271/?q=white&c[users]=lsd&o=relevance

@lsd utterly hates white people

 

[Gasolin]

If Maguire was found guilty in retrial again, can he appeal for another retrial to have the innocent status back? How many times can he appeal? And is it possible to get worst sentence after retrial, or same sentence?

It seems to be a first trial at the misdemeanor court, an appeal at the court of appeal, and finally, if required, the court of cassation if there was an issue with the application of the law. So x3 max?

 

[JuriM]

This thing will haunt him for a while, was a tough watch. I hope the club does everything to support and help Maguire family to get over and move on.

Now when it comes down to this forums, I do hope the moderators take care of those who are against him and spin lies here, I don't want to see them ever again.

 

[Squeaky Bumtime]

Can’t believe you invested that much time and energy in replying to someone who based on his / her posts (not only in this thread) comes across as a very bitter rival fan pretending to be a United fan.
Your patience should be applauded!

Yeah, Isd is having an absolute mare.

 

[11101]

Another thing I'm wondering is where is the actual link between the first incident with the sister getting drugged, and the 2nd incident with the police? After the drugging incident they got in a minibus and were driving for 5-10 minutes when suddenly the bus pulls over and they found themselves surrounded by police. Did the police track down the minibus to question his group over the "fight" outside the bar 10 minutes earlier?

The most likely explanation is the police realised who he was at the first incident and thought there was a good opportunity to shake him down on a quiet country road and make some money. When he didnt play ball they accused him of trying to bribe them.

 

[R'hllor]

What a trainwreck of a thread, its only good for scouting mentalists. Oh and you dont believe HM = you aint a United fan

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Some judge you are.

He's a judge of the Matt variety.

 

[Donald Silverbridge]

I watched the interview last night, I felt sorry for him, I think he needs counselling, I hope the club are helping him, I believe him and he has my support as well.

 

[GazTheLegend]

What a trainwreck of a thread, its only good for scouting mentalists. Oh and you dont believe HM = you aint a United fan

Yeah this is sort of a great thread for figuring out who are actually pretending to be man Utd fans and enjoying a good wind up versus anyone else.

Nobody that saw Harry Maguire's interview could think he was lying. He was on the verge of absolutely breaking down on live camera when he spoke about his sister getting drugged. If he's lying then he's the best actor in the world and has a new career once he finishes football.

 

[Drainy]

Yeah this is sort of a great thread for figuring out who are actually pretending to be man Utd fans and enjoying a good wind up versus anyone else.

Nobody that saw Harry Maguire's interview could think he was lying. He was on the verge of absolutely breaking down on live camera when he spoke about his sister getting drugged. If he's lying then he's the best actor in the world and has a new career once he finishes football.

Yeah but lawyer (who is driving the whole thing for the billing) taught him how to do that.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Yeah but lawyer (who is driving the whole thing for the billing) taught him how to do that.

I must have missed that lecture when I studied law back in the day ‘how to make your clients cry on camera’.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Yeah but lawyer (who is driving the whole thing for the billing) taught him how to do that.

WHY though. Like if he'd had some fisticuffs, and got caught, surely the easy way is to take the suspended sentence, pay a fine, and be in the naughty corner with Solskjaer and Southgate for a year before it's all forgotten.

Even as things stand now there's no real reason to appeal and go up against the authorities- unless, that is, there really has been a mistake at worst and a miscarriage of justice at best.

Not allowing witnesses, not allowing medical evidence and not allowing time for a proper defence - in a case that went to trial after 2 days. Rushed through. Hopefully justice is done.

 

[Drainy]

I must have missed that lecture when I studied law back in the day ‘how to make your clients cry on camera’.

Oh you are a lawyer! If you drove a case and gave bad advice about merits for the purpose of continuing it for the billables what are the risks and is it worth it?

 

[youngrell]

Imagine hating a player so much because you think he cost too much money and shouldn't be captain, that you're utterly desperate for him to be criminally charged and have his career ruined just to prove a petty point on the Internet.

The mind boggles

What type of life do you have to lead that brings people to these type of attitudes?

 

[Striker10]

He is extremely lucky he is english and white as the media would be all over him calling him the worst transfer in premiership history otherwise

As I said in another post. I'm glad i'm not a liberal.

Personally not looked into this case butI don't think Maguire (white though he is) oh and English.....has a prior track record. **ck the media. It's shameful for many if they let the media be their mouth piece or do their thinking for them. Maguires been POOR to Good. Don't care what the stupid lying media say personally.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Oh you are a lawyer! If you drove a case and gave bad advice about merits for the purpose of continuing it for the billables what are the risks and is it worth it?

I’m not a lawyer I’m afraid, I maybe shouldn’t have worded my post that way, I studied law ageeess ago but didn’t pursue the law. But I’m guessing if they did that the solicitor could be struck off from the SRA.