The "doubling down" by everyone into their existing political positions just continues to highlight how broken politics is worldwide. There is no nuance, no reflection to mass death. Everyone is being forced and prodded into taking and then promoting a "definitive side", and then taking that "sides" absolute worst positions imaginable. feck everyone that is celebrating and promoting the paragliding terrorists and feck everyone calling for the "cleansing" of an entire city. Bring the perpetrators of crimes to justice and end this extremism of politics. This is the politics of perverted nihilism, this is the politics of anarchy and worship of body counts.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Yes, I was. Killing innocent people by masses, destroying entire families, is terrible. And dare I see, way too easy for Israel with the abilities of our airforce compared with the lack of any protection those people have.
I can absolutely see why those people would consider Israel as they enemies and fight it.
But nothing excuses what happened on Saturday. Nothing. That was pure evil.
Well, when you wrote this a few days ago I replied that the number of dead would be nowhere near, but we're getting there. Up to 1,200 dead and still counting.
The number of captured, though, is going to be far higher than 70.
No. It's the desire for jews to be able to be able to live in their ancestral home and have one country where they can feel safe.
There are extreme versions of zionism that have unacceptable aspects, but zionism itself is just that.
You can be a zionist and still strongly believe that Palestinians deserve nationhood too.
Most jews (not all) are one type of zionist or another in that they believe in Israel's right to exist.
The desire to paint zionism as a unique evil (often equated to apartheid or nazism by morons) is racist because most jews around the world feel a connection to Israel. Half of the world's small population live there, and many have family connections.
I've met one person who was comfortable using the word 'zio-bitch' (that idiot McKola used this term as well if i recall) but was outraged by the suggestion they were antisemitic. Yet that phrase will cause most Jewish women around the world, including the many that are peace-loving, two states supporting, or even mostly indifferent to Israel, to recoil in horror and fear.
The crimes of Israel, and there are crimes, are those of government, army and statehood, not ideology.
They do, of course.
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-g...ve-blog-12978800?postid=6562948#liveblog-body
Apparently israel knew the attack was coming. Egypt had warned them.
Apparently israel knew the attack was coming. Egypt had warned them.
There should be absolutely nothing wrong in protesting against the occupation right now, but yea having the picture of the paraglider in the poster is in incredibly bad taste.
While I strongly disagree with that letter, and question the morals of those that signed it at a time when civilian slaughter was still happening in Israel, going after them in this way is morally repugnant.
It's slightly more than 'bad taste', it's literally the glorification of murder and rape.
with this episode of utter batshittery from sections of the left, I am unfortunately starting to believe that the people that warned sections of the left would try to meet the "alt-right" in terms of the level of extremism are being proven correct.
These people saw the right-wing just go completely off the deep end and now this is their moment to do it themselves. I get all the critique about how Israel policy and ideology is a talking point, I had no clue that section of the left had gone this extreme. They are worshiping mass slaughter of random people as political resistance. They are mind-fecked.
Yeah, it seems we are on a one way path and it's totally unavoidable unless someone does something extraordinary
Gaza is done. Egypt has to open Rafha and a full evacuation of civilians has to commence. Israel wil have determined that they can't afford for Gaza to remain contained any longer (not commenting on the morality of such a decision)
Compared to the missile crisis in the 60s the world is fairly safe right now. It seems the doomsday clock isn't immune to modern day sensationalism
If you need more understanding of the power imbalance, look at the wealth of the people making statements like the above.
Footballification of politics. You cannot condemn your own side or own up to mistakes. Post truth, post rationality.
Good post. Amen brother.
I don't think calling for the doxxing of students is the way to go
Aren't they driven by an ideology? If so, what is that ideology other than a belief in your supremacy over other people in the region?
Genuine question.
Not really. Do you think Netanyahu is an ideologist? The same way Putin is, his ideology is personal enrichment and power.
Of course there are small political strands that have extremist ideological bases, but the basis of Israel's militarism is just basic nationalism really. Key objective - the safety of the country which can only be achieved by limiting or eliminating the threat from its neighbours (all of whom wish it were deleted).
Gotta say, this thread is a pretty wild ride, and perhaps a tiny representation of the power of the internet. People from all over the world, on a football forum, with the full range of views both ideologically, and to be honest intellectually salient.
It's genuinely fascinating. As someone (I'd imagine) a touch older than the most tribal of posters on here, I'd suggest reading and not posting for a bit. There's almost a game of 'my side did mass murder in a more understandable way than your side' going on which is pretty ugly.
Also, final tip: don't look on Twitter for someone confirming what you want to hear. You'll find it. Instead, search news from actual journalists for what you don't want to be true.
It's genuinely fascinating. As someone (I'd imagine) a touch older than the most tribal of posters on here, I'd suggest reading and not posting for a bit. There's almost a game of 'my side did mass murder in a more understandable way than your side' going on which is pretty ugly.
Also, final tip: don't look on Twitter for someone confirming what you want to hear. You'll find it. Instead, search news from actual journalists for what you don't want to be true.
Given how heated the Twitter wars are, I'd say this thread is pretty reasonable.
Now at the UW in Seattle as well, with the same paraglider poster. What a travesty.
I wonder if they fail to recognize where that paraglider comes from, or do and still included it in their poster.
Edit: "From the river to the sea" in the caption makes it clear.
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I have relatively good sources over there; i think the number captured has taken everybody by surprise but likely casualties were easier to calculate once satellite showed where the terrorists were. All my info is 2nd/3rd hand though, so should never be taken as “news” unless I’m sure it’s confirmed.
by the way, you’re very similar politically to me in views. Don’t worry about the shock and hardening of views, time will heal and you’ll get perspective back. I’ve posted similar last night, that I feel myself hardening. I tend to look at the pictures of Gaza to see the destruct and remind myself of the human cost of it all, brings me back to centre a bit whilst still being perfectly at peace with the “kill them all” feelings on hamas. For me I use buildings as I don’t want to vomit, they are enough to remind me.
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So I’m assuming the beheading of babies and women is untrue?
6K deaths due to collateral? Seems fishy
It's still unclear. There are some credible accounts and not just from that first journalist, but I'm not believing them yet. Big claims need big evidence etc. Any Israelis here care to comment on what they've heard? @owlo ?
A sidepoint, but why would CEO's be asking Bill Ackman if Harvard would release those names? Besides being alumni, he doesn't have any role at Harvard right?
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Bill Ackman is quite a cool dude. Eccentric as hell, smart as a button. Just likes to speak his mind and get involved. it’s not just this, he does loads of random cool stuff. Pretty sure he’s donated to Palestinians in the past
he’s obviously very pro Israel though.
It's really not. I'm not going to excuse Israel, but Hamas purposefully use civilian buildings as weapon platforms in the most densely populated area in the world. Often times bombing a launchpad is the same as bombing a residential building or civic building. They have been found to launch rockets from schools and other vulnerable infrastructure such as hopsitals in the past.
I agree with this. Israel is about to make a huge strategic mistake. They must limit civilian casualties (obviously there will be some) and use other means to decapitate Hamas. Even if it takes time.
Biden's vocal support is all well and good, but I'm hoping he's trying to cool things down behind the scenes. Doesn't look like it though.
And then they'll claim it's anti-semetic to say that Israel and Zionists have a large influence over American society. I can't ever imagine a similar response of an Israeli group in University celebrated the deaths of Palestinians or blamed them for their deaths. Or even any other Muslims in general.
It's ironic that when I was in Pakistan I feared talking about my views on Islam and religion in general in the office or other corporate spaces, and in Germany everyone talks about freedom of speech and what not, but I would never ever discuss my views on Israel in the office in fear of being labelled anti-semetic and being fired.
Good post
I have no idea. Not going near that one with a barge pole. Hoping to hell it isn’t true. There’s apparently videos circulating but they don’t come from the usual channels and I have no idea if they are genuine or some sort of deepfakes. There’s a lot of weirdness in the reporting about it, and a lot of silence in areas you wouldn’t expect, so I think it’s either bullshit, or they are making sure the evidence is rock solid before releasing. I’m not buying 40 babies decapitated, though I’m not discounting “cuts on heads that indicates attempted beheading.” My bullshit meter is probably a 7/10 on it.
And who votes the government and specially this last government?
I could post a long technical post about this, but I doubt anyone would be too interested so I’ll keep it short. Palestinian civilian casualty rates are on the low end of normal, and have been at all times until the start of this revenge attack.
It's perfectly normal to have this reaction after wehat happened.
Do you consider a two states solution as realistic? Any chance of it happening?
We're happy to do it over far less serious issues so why not?