ten Hag is gone as soon as the season is over. I think it’s a long shot that we see Sancho in a United shirt again, but I’d much rather see him back in the squad than Antony.
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 3
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 0
A good manager comes in and buys good players.
Not moyes & fellini, not lukaku & Mourinho, not LVG & Rojo, not Ten Hag's buying Antony,Weghorst, Amrabat etc.
I want a better manager and I blame the manager because he would buy better players.
Pep wouldnt sign a single player listed above and would buy only players that fits his system.
So again, more than blaming the players - I blame the manager.
Who fits in with the current squad is a different story because that's actually got to be tested out.
For example people say Rashford can't play Possesion football but he arguably broke through under Van Gaal's possesion system whilst players like Sterling & Sane played for Pep's possesion sides too.
The mentality out of these players would change with a manager of high quality with better man management skills too.
I blame the manager for poor management of what players we have aswell as how they are used.
[/QUOTE]
- Managers don’t have a magic wand. A better manager would undeniably do a better job than a worse manager. However in the modern game, a manager is only a part (albeit a huge part) of the solution and any manager working under the incompetent clowns being the Glazers would be hamstring by them.
- You say Pep wouldn’t want xyz but he did want Maguire, Ronaldo, Fred and Sanchez. Klopp wanted Brandt (I think) and not Salah who was the club’s choice.
- Rashford worked under LVG in a possession based system? Well, did we succeed - did we win the league or come close? Did we play great football? Rashford was an impressive young player at the time but using a failed managerial stint as proof of him apparently working in a possession based system when his skillset says the opposite, makes no sense. Sterling and Sane (at least till he dropped of a few levels) aren’t thick as a wall of bricks either. The way people here underrate Sterling is weird.
I do believe the manager is the most important person for the type of football a team plays but using the manager to shield the players is wrong and this mindset will result in another 10 years of a bad culture. ETH has to go but so do players who have proven themselves to be below the desired level.
Not moyes & fellini, not lukaku & Mourinho, not LVG & Rojo, not Ten Hag's buying Antony,Weghorst, Amrabat etc.
I want a better manager and I blame the manager because he would buy better players.
Pep wouldnt sign a single player listed above and would buy only players that fits his system.
So again, more than blaming the players - I blame the manager.
Who fits in with the current squad is a different story because that's actually got to be tested out.
For example people say Rashford can't play Possesion football but he arguably broke through under Van Gaal's possesion system whilst players like Sterling & Sane played for Pep's possesion sides too.
The mentality out of these players would change with a manager of high quality with better man management skills too.
I blame the manager for poor management of what players we have aswell as how they are used.
[/QUOTE]
- Managers don’t have a magic wand. A better manager would undeniably do a better job than a worse manager. However in the modern game, a manager is only a part (albeit a huge part) of the solution and any manager working under the incompetent clowns being the Glazers would be hamstring by them.
- You say Pep wouldn’t want xyz but he did want Maguire, Ronaldo, Fred and Sanchez. Klopp wanted Brandt (I think) and not Salah who was the club’s choice.
- Rashford worked under LVG in a possession based system? Well, did we succeed - did we win the league or come close? Did we play great football? Rashford was an impressive young player at the time but using a failed managerial stint as proof of him apparently working in a possession based system when his skillset says the opposite, makes no sense. Sterling and Sane (at least till he dropped of a few levels) aren’t thick as a wall of bricks either. The way people here underrate Sterling is weird.
I do believe the manager is the most important person for the type of football a team plays but using the manager to shield the players is wrong and this mindset will result in another 10 years of a bad culture. ETH has to go but so do players who have proven themselves to be below the desired level.
Pep has bought plenty of shit players. The number of failed fullbacks he has worked his way through, just for starters. The difference is City's £50m buys are the ones that flop, and everyone forgets about them because they immediately replace them with another £50m player the next season. United's flops cost us £70m+ and we don't shake them for five seasons.
Looked like a good performance vs Atletico tbf.
Was Ten Hag really to blame for Sancho failures at OT.
Didn't he try to work with him on his difficulties at the start of the season and give him time off to get himself sorted out.
Saying it was all the managers fault isn't my view at all.
Sancho was given loads of chances and still failed.
Didn't he try to work with him on his difficulties at the start of the season and give him time off to get himself sorted out.
Saying it was all the managers fault isn't my view at all.
Sancho was given loads of chances and still failed.
What I really wonder... why does EtH's assessment of Sancho differ so much from his own, that they had this big fallout? No at Dortmund we had situations when both their manager said that Sancho didn't perform well and Sancho was just as critical of himself, if not even more than his manager. So they aligned quite well and Sancho showed that he can have a realistic view of his own performances.
The way it went it looked like Sancho didn't accept valid criticism, but why wouldn't he when he has proven that ability? To be fair he also can be a whiny little b*tch, we have precedence for that during his Dortmund time as well. But I still can't really wrap my head around all that.
He faded from the game, but more so that after providing a real anchor for them* for 10-15 minutes with his technical ability, he never once really looked to gamble and get in behind or tried to take the game by the scruff like Bynoe-Gittens did through sheer youthful belief and maybe a little more explosion than Sancho has. You just never felt Sancho was actually going to create something or make a run at the right time to open up space for someone else. I think he makes it hard on his teammates in that sense. There's no reason technically he can't be a consistent threat like Foden, but he just doesn't look to penetrate enough, either by dribbling or by combining and linking up, he's just sort of there to be very good technically on the wing, but that's not enough for a winger at a top club.
*Again, it was mixed with Atletico dropping off because Simeone felt that at 2-0 they were better off doing that (didn't turn out to be a great idea, I think Dortmund were probably there for the taking and now you have to go back to Dortmund up only one, but they didn't create a ton of chances, so could easily have been 2-0 or Atletico found a 3rd on the break) but you still need a winger to receive the ball and keep it like Grealish does, and Adeyemi was unable to do on the opposite wing.
Glad to see he is lifting his game...hopefully that will be reflected in the price we can get for him..
That is interesting thank you.
But Ten Hag gave Sancho plenty of time to apologise for his comments. But he did not.
It is the manager who is in charge not the player.
So I am not at all sure it was Ten Hag fault.
After all. Sancho performances had been very poor at best.
I think that for some reason there doesn't exist a basic trust between Sancho and EtH (or got lost if it existed early on) and then things escalate like they did.
That makes perfect sense.
Quite possibly. What I have never witnessed before, is a player moved out of the country for months like what happened last season, and no explanations. It’s so unusual that as long as we don’t know what was behind that, and how that played out further, it’s impossible to have a good clue as to where the furore in August stems from, apart from a player writing that in public and not apologizing for it in public will lead to a getting-rid-off in 9/10 ten times, maybe 99/100.
ETH has fallen out with many senior players, maybe he should take some of the blame.
With all that reportedly went on at Utd does anyone know if Sancho is in good mental health now he is back at Dortmund?
Let's say there are no reports about current issues in Germany at the moment. Nothing that goes beyond "we know he can play better but what do you expect after that time at United where he didn't play?". Also seems to be happy to be there but a bit unhappy with his own performances (which is objectively justified). So from the outside there is no indication for any trouble in that regard now.
Maybe simply Manchester is a depressing city? (Never been there, don't know
)More depressing than the Ruhrgebiet? That would be inhumaneLet's say there are no reports about current issues in Germany at the moment. Nothing that goes beyond "we know he can play better but what do you expect after that time at United where he didn't play?". Also seems to be happy to be there but a bit unhappy with his own performances (which is objectively justified). So from the outside there is no indication for any trouble in that regard now.
Maybe simply Manchester is a depressing city? (Never been there, don't know
I see. Will be tuning in for the return leg as it looks like time to start watching his games again for assessment again. Huge tie with everything on the line. Let’s see if he has any say on the flow of the game.
Don't say that. Dortmund has beautiful places. I especially like the A2 leading out of it
Rains a lot but umbrellas are never far away.Let's say there are no reports about current issues in Germany at the moment. Nothing that goes beyond "we know he can play better but what do you expect after that time at United where he didn't play?". Also seems to be happy to be there but a bit unhappy with his own performances (which is objectively justified). So from the outside there is no indication for any trouble in that regard now.
Maybe simply Manchester is a depressing city? (Never been there, don't know
Thing is, leaving Dortmund is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, you're about to leave Dortmund but on the other hand, one wrong direction and you end up in Gelsenkirchen or Duisburg (or even Manchester).Don't say that. Dortmund has beautiful places. I especially like the A2 leading out of it
I would never think about driving deeper into that pit. I always take the A2 eastwards and when I reach the Kamener Kreuz I can choose three directions leading back into civilization.
I have to take the A1 which is a horror because the traffic jams feel like a gravitational force that's dragging you back into the black hole. Never thought about taking the A2 but it is probably worth a try. Will be a significant detour but at least you're out quicker!
Yeah, B54 north is usually fine once you reach Dortmund-Eving, not that bad jam, than the A2 east and the A1 north is the usual way for me. But as you likely need to take the A1 south I don't think that helps you a lot
- Managers don’t have a magic wand. A better manager would undeniably do a better job than a worse manager. However in the modern game, a manager is only a part (albeit a huge part) of the solution and any manager working under the incompetent clowns being the Glazers would be hamstring by them.
- You say Pep wouldn’t want xyz but he did want Maguire, Ronaldo, Fred and Sanchez. Klopp wanted Brandt (I think) and not Salah who was the club’s choice.
- Rashford worked under LVG in a possession based system? Well, did we succeed - did we win the league or come close? Did we play great football? Rashford was an impressive young player at the time but using a failed managerial stint as proof of him apparently working in a possession based system when his skillset says the opposite, makes no sense. Sterling and Sane (at least till he dropped of a few levels) aren’t thick as a wall of bricks either. The way people here underrate Sterling is weird.
I do believe the manager is the most important person for the type of football a team plays but using the manager to shield the players is wrong and this mindset will result in another 10 years of a bad culture. ETH has to go but so do players who have proven themselves to be below the desired level.
[/QUOTE]
Likewise the way you overrate Sterling is weird. Him at Chelsea under Pochettino is the same thing happening to Rashford here under Ten Hag.
Sure modern game has changed but we had so so so many bang average players under SAF who still managed to get use of them.
I think a top manager might not always want our players as a primary option but wouldn't cry as much as the fans who don't want them because they would be able to get better use of them.
Do you know how I can prove it?
Because we looked better last season than this season under the same manager and everyone was expecting us to go a level up in season 2 of Ten Hags reign - but suddenly people seem to forget the positive aspects the players showed last season alongside the manager & then this crap version is all they see from this season where the players are suddenly the root cause of all our problems.
You can believe what you want - but I don't think you can get 11 world class players, play them with such below average tactics where we let in 30 shots against Brentford because the space between our pressing line and defensive line is so big that we pretty much don't have a midfield & expect them to carve out result after result.
Sure maybe a match or two individual quality of an individual players can win a match but a team is bigger than the quality of 11 individualised players -
And who builds a team?
The manager.
That's why when the whole team is playing sh*t I blame it on the manager not the players.
Oh yes, I completely forgot about that. Sancho's lack of penetration with and without the ball would still be an issue but in my simple mind, it was more 'Dalot = good now and very capable in those half spaces, which could help Sancho playmake more. Therefore Dalot + Sancho = good'.
Really, I was just trying to convince myself of the potential and hope, if he is still here next year.
Who?
Ronaldo was throwing his toys out of the pram and demanding to leave long before he even met ETH. He missed preseason, his performances were utterly dreadful, and then he threw a tantrum when he wasn't treated like a living god who deserved to start every game. Even so, ETH was getting criticised for playing Ronaldo as much as he was. No manager with any kind of standards doesn't fall out with Ronaldo that season.
Sancho? A player known to have poor professionalism and discipline at every previous club, who struggled badly to actually perform, and who then over-reacted massively to relatively benign criticism. This is all on Sancho, unless there was a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know about. Which I'm not writing off as a possibility, but based on previous I'd definitely err on the side of it being Sancho that was the issue.
The only other one that there were some reports about were Varane, but that's all they were - reports. How true they were we have no idea. It's not like he was completely frozen out of the team. He still started five games in that period and came off the bench in most of the others, and people tend to forget he was very poor in those appearances. It wasn't until the Liverpool match where he actually performed well again, and he was straight back into the starting line-up again after that.
Those are the only ones here that have had (or might have had in Varane's case) an issue. And the two definites were both on the player, not the manager. I criticise ETH for plenty of other stuff, but not this. So unless he has history of falling out with players at previous clubs?
So Bremen, Hamburg, Berlin? Or are you pretending there's actually any place of note between Dortmund and those 3?
I think Sancho would improve dramatically if only his thumbs were injured somehow.
- Managers don’t have a magic wand. A better manager would undeniably do a better job than a worse manager. However in the modern game, a manager is only a part (albeit a huge part) of the solution and any manager working under the incompetent clowns being the Glazers would be hamstring by them.
- You say Pep wouldn’t want xyz but he did want Maguire, Ronaldo, Fred and Sanchez. Klopp wanted Brandt (I think) and not Salah who was the club’s choice.
- Rashford worked under LVG in a possession based system? Well, did we succeed - did we win the league or come close? Did we play great football? Rashford was an impressive young player at the time but using a failed managerial stint as proof of him apparently working in a possession based system when his skillset says the opposite, makes no sense. Sterling and Sane (at least till he dropped of a few levels) aren’t thick as a wall of bricks either. The way people here underrate Sterling is weird.
I do believe the manager is the most important person for the type of football a team plays but using the manager to shield the players is wrong and this mindset will result in another 10 years of a bad culture. ETH has to go but so do players who have proven themselves to be below the desired level.
[/QUOTE]
It's very rare that United are able to sign the manager's no 1 option else we would have had a star studded side with the likes of Bellingham, haaland, de Jong, Kim min jae etc
I live in a place that's not of note, but yes, that direction
He's been here less than 2 years, think about that
Not sure what that has to do with the price of eggs in China.
He's fallen out with two players who any manager with standards would have fallen out with. Fergie, Klopp, Pep, etc. Varane is the only debatable one, but we don't know if there even was a falling out or how serious it was if there was one (he continued to play most games).
You've admitted that he's fallen out with 2 players in explosive ways (that we know about it) and you aren't sure about a 3rd. I suspect you're a ETH Stan as I don't see why you are still arguing the toss over this....
He has not fallen out with anyone. Those two players have fallen out with our club, and in none of the cases was their behaviour tolerable for any manager.
What did Sancho do again, defend himself on twitter?
Not worth it bro
ETH Stan?
Ronaldo was literally causing huge drama and trying to force his way out of the club before ETH even officially started. The fact you are trying to pin that on ETH is laughable. Sancho has a long history of poor professionalism and poor training, and ETH's comments on it were nothing harsh at all. Sancho turned it into a huge issue and then acted like a child refusing to apologise.
I am more than happy to criticise ETH for the things he's actually done wrong. His transfers, his ridiculous midfield set-up which is further highlighted by the deep defence and high attack, his inability to instil a working playstyle in the team, his quite regular poor subs, the fact we're consistently letting in late goals, his overuse of some players and underuse of others, and so on. While I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt for the first few months of this season, it's gone on way too long and I'll be disappointed if INEOS don't give him his marching orders at the end of the season.
The reason why I'm 'arguing the toss over this' is because Ronaldo and Sancho were blatantly the problem with what happened. They were the ones who screwed over the club, their teammates and the fans with their childish, arrogant actions. ETH did nothing, or at most very little, wrong with them. Put the blame where it's deserved.
Can't take you seriously.... Ronaldo wanted to go because he wasn't playing. And on that note... can't be arsed carrying this on
There was an Athletic article about that period earlier in the year, and Sancho and ten Hags relationship was supposedly good during that period. If I remember correctly ten Hag backed Sancho in taking some time off and getting help and Sancho appreciated that. Then that relationship went to shit later.
He wanted to leave in the summer for Champions League football and had his agent whore him around Europe but there were no takers. Also calling someone an "EtH stan" is ridiculously stupid- no one is absolving EtH from some serious legit criticism that he deserves, but there's no denying he's had to deal with some really crappy player attitudes and absolute divas that were here from Ole and Ralf's time at the club.