I'm not saying you are wrong but if we consider Chelsea as a top 6, I can see him fighting 50:50 for a spot with Willian at Chelsea.
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
I'm not sure it's always as black and white as that. I don't imagine the likes of Quinton Fortune, John O'Shea or even a young Darren Fletcher (the first 3 who spring to mind; I'm sure there are more) would've been our radar had they been with other clubs, yet they all contributed in their own way to our success over the years. I'm still on the fence regarding Lingard, but not every player has to be a top-drawer talent; role-players are also needed.
Come on
He's not in the same league as Willian. Willian is a class playerCome on, you are overhyping Willian mateCome on
What has Willian done with Chelsea to make you think he is a class player?
This has got to be a sarcastic comment. You're not genuinely saying Lingard is anywhere near Willian's standard are you?! Willian is no worldie, but is better than Lingard in pretty much every aspect.
Tell me how Willian is any better than Lingard? Willian is probably one of the most overrated player in redcafe. Lack of end product and lack intelligent to pass the ball to his teammate. And he is at his prime age while Lingard isn't. I don't see anything sarcastic in my post, I already agree Lingard is not good enough to be a starting eleven spot at top 6. This is also applied to Willian. In fact both players have similarity when a team might need to use their ability such as their work rate, movement and pace.
Either I'm underrating Willian or you guys are overratting Willian. You look at all Chelsea fans only thinks him not as a first choice player quality. He's just a squad player quality.
They don't know that he is as good as hitting shins as our Tony V. His assist record, goal scoring record and chances created is not good enough for a top 6 team
Lingard wouldn't make the squad for any other top premier league team. Sure he works hard and runs around with the ball. But in crunch time he never does anything with it. Always makes the safe or wrong pass instead of making the key one when he's in a dangerous position. Except for the FA cup, he is usually very wasteful with his chances on goal. Average backup; sad that we let talented attacking players like Nani go. Nani wasn't consistent, but at least he wasn't consistently below average.
Let me assist you with this...
Firstly, Willian and Lingard's respective technical abilities are on different levels to each other. Willian is a better dribbler, has a good touch and has good striking and dead ball ability. Lingard's touch is inconsistent, he can't beat his man and has a poor shot.
Even though Chelsea were poor last season, the overall team were still packed with quality aa they were defending champions. Willian was named player of the year for the defending champions last season. Lingard will never achieve that honour as he is too limited as a player.
Sure, willian is at his peak at 27, but people often forget that Lingard is no spring chicken himself. He is turning 24 in 5 months and has far too many deficiencies in his game at the moment to realistically develop into the player Willian is within 3 years.
I do agree that Lingard has good pace and workrate (as does Willian), but on its own, it's not enough for a top 6 side. Willian has other qualities that Lingard unfortunately doesn't, which is why he will end up with the better career.
He is such a limited player sadly
You're upset because he's been criticised when other players are too?
I would imagine if you asked any neutral fan if they would rather have Lingard or Willian, the answer would be fairly one sided.
"Good touch" can you prove if his touch is any better than Lingard? Have you even watch Willian consistently? His unsuccessful touch per game was only 0.1 lower than Lingards last season (who scored.com)
If his striking is any good he would have score goals like what Lingard did in final FA cup (not saying Lingard is good either). Good dribbler but lack of intelligence to pick a pass to other players who made a run, too much dribble that he didn't even notice if other players made a good run. While Lingard worse dribbler but better link up play.
Willian is only better* with his set pieces and creating chances with his set pieces.
But overall apart from set pieces for the team, both players offer the same and both players can be useful for their movement, pace and work rate.
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He is good enough as a back up player. I really doubt Jose expected to start him even before yesterday
You were the one who replied "And?" to my post, which clearly I can tell because you don't read them
Read it again! I found it funny how people are posting so many stuff on this thread during Dortmund games but posted almost nothing in Wigan games. Credit is given where it is due. Criticism is given where it is due. Too much hide and seek on this thread. I never got upset when he's been criticised.
I already mentioned this before. Willian is one of the most overrated player on this forum. Oh wait of course people will choose Willian since he has one extra bonus "set pieces".
Some people views/opinions regarding our own players can be described in recent situation in a game vs Wigan,where HM skied it but most were so blinded with wait hate that they jumped a gun and had a go on MD,when blood in their eyes went away and realized its HM... showed that its not the missed goal opportunity is what they hate,no, they dont mind it as long is someone who isnt on their black list.
It's crazy that we're not even in the market for wingers.
Don't tell me this cnut is going to be first choice.
Worst player to be a regular since Darren Gibson.
Don't tell me this cnut is going to be first choice.
Worst player to be a regular since Darren Gibson.
I do not think so. He would rather call the police, a mental house or something like that to have you locked up in an institution. The normal question would be the following: what is the difference between Lingard and a bucket full of cow sh*t. And the answer would be the bucket...Unfortunately, he is nowhere near good enough for United. I am not sure that he is even Premiership quality...
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Really mate? I really think that Willian is not such a good player but he is a good player after all. He can dribble, he can shoot, he can cross, he is good off the ball, and he is good defensively. He is not world class but he is a good player. What does Jesse have? Oh, yes, he is a our own graduate and...aaaa....nothing else. Comparing both players is a travesty in my opinion.
We've already bought a right winger though. Micky will be 1st choice on the right i imagine.
I don't even rate Willian but I would much rather him than Lingard.
Was he even good against Wigan? I didn't see the game but I didn't sense he played particularly great.You were the one who replied "And?" to my post, which clearly I can tell because you don't read them
Read it again! I found it funny how people are posting so many stuff on this thread during Dortmund games but posted almost nothing in Wigan games. Credit is given where it is due. Criticism is given where it is due. Too much hide and seek on this thread. I never got upset when he's been criticised.
Obviously it's better to judge our players against better opposition; hence more posts in here after the Dortmund game. Teams often go out and win 5/6 nil in pre-season against second rate opposition, it obviously wouldn't be good to judge your players based on those performances, though.
Anyhow, pre-season doesn't mean all too much. Plenty of our players took stick on here yesterday and rightly so. Jesse was one and it was deserved. He was poor.
Willian is a quality player and miles better than Lingard! Lingard would struggle to get a regular game in any of the top 8 imo. If he's a regular starter for us next season we will struggle again. Like Tc23 a decent player that came through our youth team. But not United class if we are wanting to win leagues and champions leagues.
Aye, another homegrown talent massively overrated by some on here. To be expected, I suppose.
Willian is clearly several levels ahead of Lingard. While I don't rate him as highly as some on here do, he's a very good player indeed.
I wasn't wrong at all about Willian is overrated in this forum. To think that there are someone said Willian is very good player and class player.
He would. He's on par with someone like Oxlade-Chamberlain, or Walcott, or Chadli and players like that. He's not very good, but he'd make these teams' squads.
Yes, he's not clinical. He won't dominate a 15-20 minute stretch of the match to change the tide in your team's favor. Yet it's been proven time and time again that you can't just field a team of 11 big names. Even Pep's Barca, always in the discussion when considering the greatest club side of all time, had grafters like Keita and Puyol. You need hard workers in any championship team.
What I really don't understand is how the same people who want to ship Jesse out are also the ones banging on and on about playing Januzaj. 9/10 managers will keep the less talented player with the right mentality, than a gifted potential star with attitude problems.
What I really don't understand is how the same people who want to ship Jesse out are also the ones banging on and on about playing Januzaj. 9/10 managers will keep the less talented player with the right mentality, than a gifted potential star with attitude problems.
He was the only that didn't get any comment for that Wigan's game. And I found it funny how he got comments right away at Dortmund game. What now? I can't laugh?
But it was kind of pointless to point that out. As I said, what does it matter how players play against second rate opposition in pre-season? It doesn't either way. The Dortmund game was definitely a far better game to make judgements albeit, it's also pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
So players like Wilson, Mata etc. Basically everyone got pointless comment except Lingard? Seriously mate, why can't I express myself. I don't see anything wrong if I found it funny.
I dunno, it's just not funny, I guess. You clearly feel Lingard was somehow victimised because people are calling him out on what was a poor showing. As I said, I didn't see the Wigan game so I can't comment.
The big difference there are these players you mentioned are a defender and a defensive midfielder. Lingard occupies one of our front four positions, so I'd like to think we could do with more than a grafter.
Fair enough, but the common theme with them and someone like Jesse or Willian is how they're willing to sacrifice personal glory for the team's gain. Even the last great Fergie team had Park and Tevez as grafters in the final third. Besides, judging by his Inter, RM and second Chelsea team, Jose sets up with one 'defensive' player in the front four. If he can just fix his abysmal final ball, I see no reason why he shouldn't be kept, at least until he wants to leave for regular football.
Why people don't accept he is squad player?
Its not his fault if we are not buying wingers.
He doesn't deserve this much hate.
Its not his fault if we are not buying wingers.
He doesn't deserve this much hate.
For my part. I've seen no indication that he's a squad player. Ever since he broke into the team he's been first choice.
Ffs
you can express yourself and make a wrong assumption but you aren't allowing me to express myself or laugh. I don't even read the first page comments, so how can I feel Lingard was victimised lol. You clearly never listen, how many times I have been telling you I don't feel upset or anything else, all I found is funny how the thread was so quiet for Wigan's game and the rest of the players got attention but in Dortmund games all of sudden it became noisy.
Lingard? Nah. Not exotic or glamorous enough. Could we get Ounas or Lozano instead?
Your initial post was just odd. Why would people come in here after a match against Wigan and praise a player that by all accounts didn't do anything exceptional (from what I heard). I mean, he will obviously be judged more and talked about more against better opposition, is that not natural, no? I have already said I didn't see the Wigan game; if you watched it, could you tell me what he done that people should have been talking about?Ffs
I don't even read the first page comments, so how can I feel Lingard was victimised lol. You clearly never listen, how many times I have been telling you I don't feel upset or anything else, all I found is funny how the thread was so quiet for Wigan's game and the rest of the players got attention but in Dortmund games all of sudden it became noisy.
I assumed you were a wee bit upset after this line:
Then I stated that people were criticizing him in the Lingard thread as it is a thread about is performances. Other players were criticized in their respective threads.
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