Yeah but if you ignore all his great contributions, when he plays well, when he plays great then he’s bang average.
Am I doing this right?
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 6
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Am I doing this right?
England goals:
Jesse: 4 in 14 games
Sterling 4 in 47
Dele Ali 3 in 33
Interesting.....
Jesse: 4 in 14 games
Sterling 4 in 47
Dele Ali 3 in 33
Interesting.....
It's international football. The vast, vast majority of games are against poor opposition who give acres of space, that's why mobile players like Lingard look so much better. Even the decent teams only train together once every few months. The top half of the Premier League would wipe the floor with pretty much any international team.
As fun as that sounds on paper, even against the worst teams in the league that midfield would get torn to pieces.
So what? England are still trying to find ways to improve. England being ranked fourth best international team is a joke. Lindgard suits England. Massive, massive hype. No expectations. No trophies.
No trophies, besides the trophies he's won.
When you have Harry Kane in front playing as CF instead of Lukaku and Sterling alongside you any player will look better.
When they're not playing for Manchester United any player will look better.
How did he get into the England team in the first place? Oh yeah, it was by playing well for United under the current coaching staff.
Explain his form last season then?
When they're not playing for Jose Mourinho any player will look better.
The difference in Lingard's England performances isn't quite as stark as Rashford's, but both look markedly better due to the free flowing, attack orientated style Southgate coaches.
10 games to be exact. 10 games out of 48, great contribution indeed.
Not really. He has been a regular in the England squad since Southgate was appointed in September 2016. His initial call ups used to be mocked given his lack of form /starts for club but Southgate knew him from the U21s.
You think he starts at the world cup without the season he had? Even if you think so, lets not pretend like Jesse wasn’t playing very well under Jose regardless. Shameless posts.
Complete bullshit that he only plays well under Southgate.
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Of course that he will score in only game when i don't want him to score
Pretty good for a midfielder I’d say and miles ahead of the rest of them, particularly when earlier in the season he was being played out of position
He was already starting games before his run of form started around this time last year. 3 of Southgate's first 4 games he played the full game.
Furthermore Southgate has tried several different players since he came. There is a core group who get picked everytime they are fit - Lingard is one of those. So it's quite possible Southgate started him anyway. Smalling was better for club than Maguire last season but he hasn't been called up for over a year now. Shelvey had a better season than some of the players he has picked yet he has never been called up by Southgate.
He picks players for the system and his trust in Lingard has been evident since day one.
He was playing as part of the front 3. If that’s good enough for you then fine.
Got the equaliser and made a goal line clearance. Not too bad, eh?
After two promising performances for England, i'm hoping he can go back to United full of confidence.
After two promising performances for England, i'm hoping he can go back to United full of confidence.
Very accurate post.
No trophies for "all-hype" England
England U17: 2017 World Cup winners
England U19: 2017 Euro winners
England u20: 2017 World Cup winners
No trophies for Lingard
Manchester United Youth
Manchester United
Lingard likes to score in the finals as well!
Sounds like he had a good game or atleast had a important role in the game but that doesnt make him good enough to be a Manchester United player and start games against teams like Manchester City.
He just isnt good enough for the level Manchester United should be at... full of confidence or not.
He didn't start 48 games, he started only 30 games and he contributed to 20 goals (13 goals + 7 assists)
Last season he played 2652 mins (equivalent of 29 full games) and contributed to 20 goals, averaging 132 mins per Goal or assist. That's a very good record.
Just in PL, his average is 130 mins per Goal or assist. How is that not good for a player who isn't first choice player? Even for a first choice player, that's a good record.
The point I was referring was that apart from that purple patch who now looks like one off, he was back to his old self.
To picture it better, I will put it this way, since January the 1st till the end of last season in the PL, Jesse Lingard scored two goals, one on January the 1st, and another vs Chelsea, while playing 987 minutes. Even if you count his 2 assist, it's still an average output. I'm not sure about you but that's not a good record for me, not for an attacking player of Manchester United, who barely contributes anything other than ''running''.
Well I was talking about season as a whole, not selective dates. In that case, here is one more.
Since Feb 12th, Hazard scored only 1 goal in PL till end of last season. He played 816 mins.
That's the problem with selective dates. Either consider full season or don't.
Mahrez scored just 4 goals since feb or 6 goals since Jan.
Sane scored 4 goals since November to end of season
Mane scored just 6 goals from Jan to end of season.
Alli scored 5 goals from Jan to end of season
Eriksen scored 5 goals from Jan to end of season
Son scored 6 goals from Jan to end of season
And these players all played for settled teams (except Mahrez) and as a first choice players.
I like him. When he's shit he'd total and complete shit, but he has his uses in a team playing with dynamism and confidence. He won't drag you through when the team is off-colour but none of our current players are exactly heirs to Keane.
Of course that he will score in only game when i don't want him to score
Excellent post - it’s just pathetic sometimes when posters use selective stats to support an argument. I’d add that Kane went 7 games without scoring a goal for England until yesterday, he must be crap as well.
For me the issues with Lingard are his consistancy - because on his day he can certainly have a good match and score a good goal. But also what he does on days where he isnt scoring a goal. Often he's very light on his impact. And then a goal or a good piece of play changes that. But on the days he doesnt score or set up a goal he just hasnt done a lot compared to the rest. He's also not that accurate with his shooting.
This season for United he's attempted 10 shots, 4 were blocked, 4 were off target and 2 were on target. Thats our lowest conversion of attempted shots to shots on target.
This season for United he's attempted 10 shots, 4 were blocked, 4 were off target and 2 were on target. Thats our lowest conversion of attempted shots to shots on target.
Good enough for a squad player. Certainly doesn’t warrant constant bashing
Well yeah, stats as a whole can be misleading you are completely right. But taking out a random date so you can point out to Hazard lack of goals is complete blind shot. I took 1st of January for Lingard, because I consider and other I can imagine as when his purple patch came to an end. And when you can analyze his whole career you can see what is the norm and what is the anomaly. That's all. I wouldn't lean on stats to describe an attacker otherwise.
To add to that, Hazard can score 1 goal in half a season and yet will be a much more useful player that Lingard, what he brings to a team can't be described by stats. And all those examples you put forward bring more to the table, Lingard brings very little in contrast, yet most of them have better numbers in addition. And whether Lingard was first choice or not I'm not sure since i don't know how he fares compared to others in the squad, he did play a lot of football.
That last part in how all of them played in settled teams compared to him, well Hazard played in a team that downed tools for example, Mahrez you pointed out. Lingard played for the team that finished 2nd, compared to the others.
Good enough to be a squad player, yes I agree, for now. I don't think it's bashing it's just pointing out to what he offers and it's not much. It's not his fault, but the guy that plays him despite the obvious.
Also, I can't understand fans that on one side criticize the team and the lack of goals/attacking output, yet consider Lingard to be good enough to warrant a constant spot in the team. Because let's not kid ourselves he plays more than he should.
We will have to agree to disagree, I don’t see lingard as the problem with the team, far from it.
Heard a couple of things to the sound of "it would have gone in anyway, but Lingard made sure..." Am I the only one who thinks that one of the Croatian defenders would have cleared it off the line? It was trickling towards goal and Vida (I think) was going torwards it... I reckon he'd have got there if it wasn't for Jesse.
There were two defenders close to it, Lovren was running towards the slow moving ball so yes, they would likely have cleared it.
And when people get told that Sterling is a system player greatly benefitting from the way Guardiola plays and incorporated him, they deny it and claim that he's some top 3 ballon d'or contender.
There was a replay from behind the line which looked as though the ball might not cross the line at all. Was dribbling very slowly and almost parallel to the goal-line after it got a nick off Lovren.
Totally agree. People complain we are average, but are willing to accept mediocrity in the starting 11. It's a strange one.
That would be because on the very rare occasions we have looked like a fluid and effective attacking team he's been heavily involved in all our best football.
Generally agree with you Pogue, but he has been horrible this season. Could even argue this is his worst season since being in the first team, and there has been a few contenders for that. There is no doubting he is a much better player for England, but for United he just rarely delivers (whether it's his position or what). He really needs to improve. 0 goals since February is just completely unacceptable.
He has been crap this season, I wouldn’t disagree. They’ve all been crap. It’s been a crap season. Under a manager we badly need to get rid of.
That said, there have been a handful of games under Mourinho last season where we’ve shown glimpses of playing some decent attacking football. And Jesse’s been heavily involved in all of them.
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