Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

[Dante]

Arsenal and Spurs had lovely clean sheets today. Just saying.

I'm not even talking about defensive solidity. I'm talking about matches where everything doesn't quite click into place.

Klopp's system is effective when it works. So is Pep's. So is Mourinho's.

But the latter two have systems that work more often than Klopp's. They have fewer 'off days', as evidenced by the fact that they both have a long track record of producing title winning teams that finish with huge point tallies.

Klopp can only really point to 2012 when he won 81 points in 34 games (which scales to about 90 points in real money). Mourinho and Pep are both experts at squeezing out that kind of consistency from their sides, season after season, and making sure that they can win in any given situation. Klopp needs too many things to go his way and that's not going to wash in the PL.

He may be a title winner in Germany, but he won't make Liverpool a machine. That's what you need to finish top over here.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

And to flip that ... over the course of the season United have scored seven goals less than Liverpool and have the joint worst goal-scoring record in the top 8.

I thought we were talking about your crap defence?

 

[Dumbstar]

I'm not even talking about defensive solidity. I'm talking about matches where everything doesn't quite click into place.

Klopp's system is effective when it works. So is Pep's. So is Mourinho's.

But the latter two have systems work more often than Klopp's. They have fewer 'off days', as evidenced by the fact that they both have a long track record of producing title winning teams that finish with huge point tallies.

Klopp can only really point to 2012 when he won 81 points in 34 games (which scales to about 90 points in real money). Mourinho and Pep are both experts at squeezing consistency out of their side, season after season, and making sure that they can win in any given situation. Klopp needs too many things to go his way and that's not going to wash in the PL.

He may be a title winner in Germany, but he won't make Liverpool a machine. That's what you need to finish top over here.

If he's not already made all the (lets face it average-ish) cogs in our team into some sort of machine, does it not scare you if he actually does succeed in that endeavour?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The usual hyperbole that's to be expected from you. Here's a stat for you, in the last 5 PL games Liverpool have conceded 4 goals, in their last 5 PL games United have conceded 7 goals. Would you describe United's defence as almost twice as bad as Liverpool's ?

As @Classical Mechanic pointed out, Liverpool have the worst defence out of the top 8 teams over the whole season so far. Liverpool concede goals far too easily it was the same last season. Klopp's decision to not bring in a left back and more quality defenders is going to cost Liverpool. And like I said, hopeless on set pieces. I've seen no improvement in your defence since Klopp took over.

 

[Rafateria]

I thought we were talking about your crap defence?

And current form ? Over the last 5 matches ? United have conceded 7 to our 5 (to inferior teams).

 

[Dante]

Where are we with the throw ins stats? Personally hope to win that cup to get into E


If he's not already made all the (lets face it average-ish) cogs in our team into some sort of machine, does it not scare you if he actually does succeed in that endeavour?

His machine mis-fires more often than Mourinho and Pep's. It's been a feature of his teams for years now.

In England you need bullet-proof reliability. The league is rarely won with the kinds of points tallies he usually got in Germany. That's a reflection of the mercurial nature of his system, eye-catching though it is.

 

[Rafateria]

As @Classical Mechanic pointed out, Liverpool have the worst defence out of the top 8 teams over the whole season so far. Liverpool concede goals far too easily it was the same last season. Klopp's decision to not bring in a left back and more quality defenders is going to cost Liverpool. And like I said, hopeless on set pieces. I've seen no improvement in your defence since Klopp took over.

If it makes you feel better and brings you a scrap of comfort you can ignore recent form then.

 

[Dumbstar]

If it makes you feel better and brings you a scrap of comfort you can ignore recent form then.

What he's saying is we haven't spent enough. And we all know that if you spend big you don't drop silly points.

 

[PickledRed]

Here is a stat for you, over the course of the season Liverpool have conceded three more than United and have the worst record in the top 8.

So? They're the league's top scorers and currently sit joint top.

 

[cyberman]

Yet somehow the top 3 teams in the table have scored the most goals by far, while the two best defensive teams are ranked 4th and 8th.

I guess we are back to "they are really average" after last week´s "we had to defend ourselves agianst this offensive juggernaut, 0-0 is a win"...

It's also October and the title race is a sprint, not a good run of form. Have we learned nothing from Arsenal?
If Barca needed to score twice a game to win even they would struggle over 38 games to do it, never mind Liverpool.

 

[Dir Wangem]

Adding all the factors together, I think this is Liverpool's best chance to win the league for a long time. It's a very similar situation to the year Gerrard slipped, but this time they have a much better coach.

They will probably get the highest points total versus the top teams. In other words, "all" they have to do is to grind down the mid and bottom table teams. With sufficient rest, few injuries and confident players, I can definitely see them pulling this off. Unfortunately.

 

[B20]

According to Glen Hoddle we need to show that we can play this kind of football against the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea....not like we've beat them both away from home already. The standard of punditry in general is dog shit.

Ffs

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

His machine mis-fires more often than Mourinho and Pep's. It's been a feature of his teams for years now.

In England you need bullet-proof reliability. The league is rarely won with the kinds of points tallies he usually got in Germany. That's a reflection of the mercurial nature of his system, eye-catching though it is.

Factor in that Klopp at Dortmund consistently, season after season, lost key players (two to his main rival).

Perhaps Pep and Mourinho have built more 'bullet-proof' machines, but when have they ever won a league with a negative net spend? Or showed the performance level that Klopp has over his career from sides with players that seemed initially unspectacular?

I would say Klopp's style has actually changed markedly from Dortmund. Whilst counter-pressing is still key, this Liverpool team enjoys huge amounts of possession in games. Right now, it is showing that it's capable of breaking down teams with a low block - one problem that he seemingly encountered in his later days at Dortmund.

 

[ti vu]

Adding all the factors together, I think this is Liverpool's best chance to win the league for a long time. It's a very similar situation to the year Gerrard slipped, but this time they have a much better coach.

They will probably get the highest points total versus the top teams. In other words, "all" they have to do is to grind down the mid and bottom table teams. With sufficient rest, few injuries and confident players, I can definitely see them pulling this off. Unfortunately.

Too early to say. This time no on fire Suarez. The competitors are stronger and seem to be more teams who can fight for top 4... Not to forget, no fecking David Moyes in charger of top 10 team giving easy points to title challengers.

 

[JustFootballFan]

His machine mis-fires more often than Mourinho and Pep's. It's been a feature of his teams for years now.

In England you need bullet-proof reliability. The league is rarely won with the kinds of points tallies he usually got in Germany. That's a reflection of the mercurial nature of his system, eye-catching though it is.

England / Germany

1.89 PPG / 2.32 PPG to finish ahead of 2nd placed team in 2016
2.10 PPG / 2.05 PPG to finish ahead of 2nd placed team in 2015
2.23 PPG / 2.11 PPG to finish ahead of 2nd placed team in 2014
2.07 PPG / 1.97 PPG to finish ahead of 2nd placed team in 2013
2.34 PPG / 2.17 PPG to finish ahead of 2nd placed team in 2012

2.12 PPG average / 2.12 PPG average

So it´s absolutely identical between Germany and England.

2.15 PPG / 2.61 PPG to finish ahead of 1st placed team in 2016
2.10 PPG / 2.35 PPG to finish ahead of 1st placed team in 2015
2.28 PPG /n 2.67 PPG to finish ahead of 1st placed team in 2014
2.36 PPG / 2.71 PPG to finish ahead of 1st placed team in 2013
2.36 PPG / 2.41 PPG to finish ahead of 1st placed team in 2012

2.25 PPG average / 2.55 PPG average

The PPG required to overturn Klopp´s Dortmund title side of 2012 is 2.41 PPG, which is higher than any average required to overtake the EPL champions of the last five years.

In 2011 it would have taken 2.23 PPG to overtake Dortmund and win the Bundesliga, which is about the EPL average of the last five years.

Now it´s time to switch the argument to the superior depth of the EPL and the Bundesliga is just a one team league.

 

[JustFootballFan]

It's also October and the title race is a sprint, not a good run of form. Have we learned nothing from Arsenal?
If Barca needed to score twice a game to win even they would struggle over 38 games to do it, never mind Liverpool.

Champions Goals per Game:

2016: 1.78 / 0.94
2015: 1.92 / 0.84
2014: 2.68 / 0.97
2013: 2.26 / 1.13
2012: 2.44 / 0.76

Title winning teams usually score more than two goals per game and they concede slightly less than one goal per game.

Liverpool´s average works out to 2.22 / 1.22, where you should probably factor in the level of opposition. They have played five of the top six teams on the first nine match days.

 

[Wade3]

They're doing very well so far but it's far too early to jump to any conclusions. With the additions of high quality managers to good teams, the title race is more open than ever. I always felt we lacked depth in coaching talent in the EPL, but with Ranieri's resurgence, the additions of Klopp, Conte and Guardiola and the likes of Mourinho, Wenger, Pochettino and even Koeman still being there, anything can happen.

 

[Dumbstar]

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Interesting stat from elsewhere. We may have conceded quite a high number goals but surely that's not a sustainable trend if we continue being so miserly with the number chances we concede.

 

[bosnian_red]

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Interesting stat from elsewhere. We may have conceded quite a high number goals but surely that's not a sustainable trend if we continue being so miserly with the number chances we concede.

Well if you continue to defend set pieces the way you have, anything is possible

 

[Liver_bird]

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Interesting stat from elsewhere. We may have conceded quite a high number goals but surely that's not a sustainable trend if we continue being so miserly with the number chances we concede.

Not entirely, we've been in the top four for chances conceded from open play for about a year now, the re-jigged defensive line has only improved and enhanced that. Our problem is we win less than 50 % of aerial balls in to the box, although we are doing a lot better at preventing crosses. We also concede a lot from the first shot on target, its an alarmingly high number of times. That coupled with set plays is our major achilles heel. The only thing I think we can do at this point is see if Klopp can rectify it, its too early in his tenure to know if its just a continuative systematic failure from previous regimes. He's highlighted it himself so if the trend continues over the course of the season then I dont know what the feck we do.

All signs point to us being a real top class balanced side if we could just even be average at defending them, but we're not we're atrociously bad. Its a shame because the rest seems to be in place.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I think Liverpool will win the league. I thought Spurs would, but they're a bit too young and have to play in Europe. Liverpool don't, and that is a big advantage because their sole focus can be on the league.

Liverpool are also where they are fairly, and not down to luck or poor refereeing. In contrast to Arsenal who have been gifted 5 points by now, gifts that will not recur throughout the season. Even City have been quite fortunate thus far from the officials' decisions.

If Liverpool continue beating the mid table and bottom teams (Burnley aside, who love beating all clubs Scouse) then they will have patched up a modern Achilles heel, where they drop points to lower clubs despite beating the big boys.

I hope to God I'm wrong. But it could be their year.

 

[Leftback99]

They have an decent run of fixtures until Christmas and have played most of their challengers away from home already. I'd be surprised if we catch them any time soon.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I think Liverpool will win the league. I thought Spurs would, but they're a bit too young and have to play in Europe. Liverpool don't, and that is a big advantage because their sole focus can be on the league.

Liverpool are also where they are fairly, and not down to luck or poor refereeing. In contrast to Arsenal who have been gifted 5 points by now, gifts that will not recur throughout the season. Even City have been quite fortunate thus far from the officials' decisions.

If Liverpool continue beating the mid table and bottom teams (Burnley aside, who love beating all clubs Scouse) then they will have patched up a modern Achilles heel, where they drop points to lower clubs despite beating the big boys.

I hope to God I'm wrong. But it could be their year.

Far too early to say they will win the league, wasn't eveyone saying City three weeks ago? They are simply on a good run of form. Front players win you games but defences win yor titles. Whilst Milner has played well at LB so far that will eventually cause problems for them. Both Karius and Mignolet look like a accident waiting to happen. I know it was said about Leicester last season but if Liverpool get injuries upfront they don't exactly have strengh in depth.

 

[wr8_utd]

Always wanted them to win the Europa so they had a distraction for the league this season. Can easily see them winning it this year if City don't get their act together soon.

 

[podurban2]

I think Liverpool will win the league. I thought Spurs would, but they're a bit too young and have to play in Europe. Liverpool don't, and that is a big advantage because their sole focus can be on the league.

Liverpool are also where they are fairly, and not down to luck or poor refereeing. In contrast to Arsenal who have been gifted 5 points by now, gifts that will not recur throughout the season. Even City have been quite fortunate thus far from the officials' decisions.

If Liverpool continue beating the mid table and bottom teams (Burnley aside, who love beating all clubs Scouse) then they will have patched up a modern Achilles heel, where they drop points to lower clubs despite beating the big boys.

I hope to God I'm wrong. But it could be their year.

I really don't think they will. They lack both in depth and in quality.

 

[Alex99]

I think Liverpool will win the league. I thought Spurs would, but they're a bit too young and have to play in Europe. Liverpool don't, and that is a big advantage because their sole focus can be on the league.

Liverpool are also where they are fairly, and not down to luck or poor refereeing. In contrast to Arsenal who have been gifted 5 points by now, gifts that will not recur throughout the season. Even City have been quite fortunate thus far from the officials' decisions.

If Liverpool continue beating the mid table and bottom teams (Burnley aside, who love beating all clubs Scouse) then they will have patched up a modern Achilles heel, where they drop points to lower clubs despite beating the big boys.

I hope to God I'm wrong. But it could be their year.

Liverpool have had like 4 penalties you dramatic twat.

 

[Klopper76]

I think Liverpool will win the league. I thought Spurs would, but they're a bit too young and have to play in Europe. Liverpool don't, and that is a big advantage because their sole focus can be on the league.

Liverpool are also where they are fairly, and not down to luck or poor refereeing. In contrast to Arsenal who have been gifted 5 points by now, gifts that will not recur throughout the season. Even City have been quite fortunate thus far from the officials' decisions.

If Liverpool continue beating the mid table and bottom teams (Burnley aside, who love beating all clubs Scouse) then they will have patched up a modern Achilles heel, where they drop points to lower clubs despite beating the big boys.

I hope to God I'm wrong. But it could be their year.

I just don't see it for us this season. I think to win the league you normally need to have a 20 goal striker and a decent defence that can grind out a clean sheet when it needs to. We don't have either of those currently which is why I think winning it is beyond us. We're a great shout for top four though assuming we don't have a massive dip in form anywhere. Since January we've been pretty good under Klopp, scoring goals for fun so if that continues I don't see any reason why we won't be in the mix come the end of the season.

 

[senorgregster]

Liverpool have had like 4 penalties you dramatic twat.

I've not really watched them play. Were they soft penalties?

 

[RedPnutz]

Definitely in with a good shout this year. More so than United.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

Drama queens, drama queens everywhere. This is Liverpool. That defense will crumble very soon. Did we not have a similar thread last season when they had a good run of form.

 

[johnny boy]

Joint top, will enjoy whilst it lasts.
Some of the football we produced yesterday was brilliant, but the game should have been out of sight by the time they scored. Top scorers in the league too.

Considering we had a negative net spend in the summer things are going well. Still hopeful we can finish top 4.

 

[johnny boy]

I've not really watched them play. Were they soft penalties?

Not really, I am not sure what the relevance of the other posters comments are anyway, if United had more penalties people would be saying it's because they attack a lot more.
So I am saying the same!

I think Liverpool will win the league. I thought Spurs would, but they're a bit too young and have to play in Europe. Liverpool don't, and that is a big advantage because their sole focus can be on the league.

Liverpool are also where they are fairly, and not down to luck or poor refereeing. In contrast to Arsenal who have been gifted 5 points by now, gifts that will not recur throughout the season. Even City have been quite fortunate thus far from the officials' decisions.

If Liverpool continue beating the mid table and bottom teams (Burnley aside, who love beating all clubs Scouse) then they will have patched up a modern Achilles heel, where they drop points to lower clubs despite beating the big boys.

I hope to God I'm wrong. But it could be their year.

I don't think we will win the league - but yes certainly nothing lucky about where we are.

 

[Water Melon]

Klopp is doing a good job with Liverpool. Whether this would be enough to win them the league, I do not know. However, with the resources that they have and spent, they look a very strong team. Credit where its due.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Liverpool have had like 4 penalties you dramatic twat.

Not sure how that statistic makes me either dramatic or a twat or refutes my opinion at all. From what I've seen, the penalties were deserved. The way Liverpool play, they are bound to draw penalties so I don't see what you're getting at.

Anyway, mine is just an opinion, and no one is obliged to agree. The league will be won by one of 4 or 5 teams. Hopefully it is us, but at this point in time, the likeliest candidate in my opinion, is Liverpool.

 

[Wooly Red]

Manchester United fans thinking we're going to win the league, and in October?

During 13/14 I didn't even think about it until March or April. We're playing great, but defence is still an odd issue. We've cut down on the mistakes but we're still conceding. At 2-0 it makes for a nervy ending, at 1-0 it means two dropped points! Klopp has to sort this out somehow.

 

[NK86]

Not sure how that statistic makes me either dramatic or a twat or refutes my opinion at all. From what I've seen, the penalties were deserved. The way Liverpool play, they are bound to draw penalties so I don't see what you're getting at.

Anyway, mine is just an opinion, and no one is obliged to agree. The league will be won by one of 4 or 5 teams. Hopefully it is us, but at this point in time, the likeliest candidate in my opinion, is Liverpool.

Likeliest candidate is Pool? Based on what exactly. This same tune was being sung for City a couple of weeks ago.

 

[NK86]

Always wanted them to win the Europa so they had a distraction for the league this season. Can easily see them winning it this year if City don't get their act together soon.

Wow.. thanks for that vote of confidence in United. Are you sure you support the team in red from Manchester?

 

[Fridge chutney]

Likeliest candidate is Pool? Based on what exactly. This same tune was being sung for City a couple of weeks ago.

You can refer to my original comment for rationale. Additionally, I think Liverpool have improved compared to last year, although questions have rightfully been raised about their back 4 and new keeper. I wonder, also, how they would deal with losing 1 or 2 of Coutinho, Mane, Firminho or Llamada for an extended period.

Also, I never backed City for the league this year, I think Pep will take a year or two to settle and learn the PL.

I think Spurs are in with a good shout and of course no one can write us off.

I'll reassess in December and then April. My opinion is just that, one of many opinions. If I could accurately predict sporting results I wouldn't need to work. But I can't, so I will be going to work on Monday.

 

[roonster09]

Likeliest candidate is Pool? Based on what exactly. This same tune was being sung for City a couple of weeks ago.

When season started it was ManUtd, Chelsea, City were favorites. When ManUtd lost few it was "city will win with ease". When City lost it was "Spurs are favorites as they have settled squad and best depth in the league". Now they drew twice in the league it's Liverpool.

 

[johnny boy]

Not sure how that statistic makes me either dramatic or a twat or refutes my opinion at all. From what I've seen, the penalties were deserved. The way Liverpool play, they are bound to draw penalties so I don't see what you're getting at.

Anyway, mine is just an opinion, and no one is obliged to agree.

Exactly, you just gave your opinion and got a childish response.