And Verratti.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Of course inebriation is a gradient, so we're talking about 'too drunk to drive', not just whatever any individual considers to be 'drunk', which is semantics and will vary. According to the law, which is what matters here, the drink drive limit is 'too drunk to drive'.
When I say 'oh, Gran's not drunk' at Christmas, it doesn't mean I want her to get in the Subaru Impreza and go for a spin. Disclaimer: my Gran does not own a Subaru Impreza. I'm not entirely sure what a Subaru Impreza is.
I've always held the very strong opinion that there should be a zero limit of alcohol allowed for people who want to drive. Even a moderate amount of the stuff impairs your senses & slows your reactions. Individuals have a massive responsibility every time they get behind the wheel. Drinking a substance that will hinder your driving capabilities isn't acting in any way responsible as far as I'm concerned.
Should be zero alcohol, then there are no grey areas at all.
Strictly speaking I'm not sure thats true; I'm almost positive that breathalysers can record some very small amount of alcohol in peoples breath without them having drunk anything at all which would make a zero tolerance policy counter productive.
I think there's talks that they'll bring the limit down in line to what it is in Scotland though which seems a good idea. It could certainly be much lower than it currently is.
Same goes for posting on fan sites...
Same goes for posting on fan sites...
It's nothing to do with being drunk.
The limit is the limit and that's the law of the land. You're arrested on suspicion of driving a motor vehicle on a road whilst being over the prescribed limit following a breath test at roadside. You're then placed on a more accurate intox machine which takes three specimens of breath and offers the lowest reading as evidence. The threshold is higher for charge and prosecution on this machine to ensure its not just a 'close shave' so to speak. (35 roadside breath 40 intoximeter)
The limit is the limit and that's the law of the land. You're arrested on suspicion of driving a motor vehicle on a road whilst being over the prescribed limit following a breath test at roadside. You're then placed on a more accurate intox machine which takes three specimens of breath and offers the lowest reading as evidence. The threshold is higher for charge and prosecution on this machine to ensure its not just a 'close shave' so to speak. (35 roadside breath 40 intoximeter)
Honestly, people who get caught drinking and driving get too lenient of a punishment.
If I'm not wrong (Do correct me if I am), it's usually a sentence consisting of community service, a driving ban (A year or two and some check after) and a fine (And possibly some jail time for repeat/extreme cases) in exchange for endangering the lives of the people around you?
If I'm not wrong (Do correct me if I am), it's usually a sentence consisting of community service, a driving ban (A year or two and some check after) and a fine (And possibly some jail time for repeat/extreme cases) in exchange for endangering the lives of the people around you?
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Poor from Firmino. Not hard to get a cab.
True. But do we want to increase the prison population? Not sure that's desirable given the costs.
Stupid by him, knowing he basically has no winter break. Or maybe he wanted it.
True that. It's difficult without sufficient data to provide a suitable reply to this question. You'll need actual data on whether putting the guilty behind bars would actually deter people from drink driving. And the answer is probably, it wouldn't really matter (Somewhat similar to the prison situation/problem in some countries)
Back to your point about over-jailing/increasing prison population, that's probably the major factor behind the current laws that are in place in most places. It's costly and unproductive to put them behind bars. So the proposed alternative would be the fines, hours of community service and ban from driving for a period of time, which is currently the norm for cases of drink driving.
But it's safe to say that quite a lot of the repeat offenders, and even those who get caught the first time (god knows how many times they have done it before they got caught) do have some form of drinking issues. Others are probably overconfident or with the mindset, "well shit others are doing it too/it won't be me who gets into trouble". They probably need real corrective help for their problems rather than actual jail time.
But I still stand with my point that the current penalty for drink driving is too lenient. It's quite akin to a slap on the wrist in exchange for the shit that drink drivers can stand to cause. For me, the minimum would be a lifetime ban on driving, if you ever get caught exceeding the legal limit.
What will happen, football wise, to Firmino? Nothing I presume?
Court date is same day they play Chelsea. Doubt he will attend though.
Nothing footballing wise like Yaya Toure, in court 18 month driving ban I would have thought
Andre Wisdom is in the Austrian Bundesliga?
Yes, currently doing very little for Salzburg.Andre Wisdom is in the Austrian Bundesliga?
In most professions if an employee is caught drink driving they would face some kind of disciplinary action by their employers, though I doubt it will happen here
I imagine Klopp will give Firmino a big hug and whisper in his ear that everything will be ok
I imagine Klopp will give Firmino a big hug and whisper in his ear that everything will be ok
I think you mean Premiership mate.
Don't know about the UK but how and on what grounds would your employer punish you if you get caught drink driving in non-work related circumstances? It's just a (most of the times very short) driving ban and monetary fine in Belgium unless you're a repeat offender.
Taking drugs is illegal too but that's none of your employer's business if it doesn't affect your work performances, same goes for drink driving imo.
Abject thing to do though and in no circumstances is it acceptable to condone this kind of behaviour, brought himself and more importantly other people in danger but I think it's best not to make too much assumptions when we don't know everything about the matter. Still very stupid from him though.
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Off a Liverpool Forum.
How much was he over ?
Not that it matters. Just thought I'd ask .
Tut tut Bobby lad. Putting peoples lives at risk .
I think @PickledRed is really Firminho. The name fits perfectly.
Can you post a photo of yourself in the 'I want your pics' thread? We want to see if you look like a lesbian.
Can you post a photo of yourself in the 'I want your pics' thread? We want to see if you look like a lesbian.
I smell a lot of faux outrage and holier than thou hypocrisy here. He's a footballing celebrity, but there's still a young lad beneath. And young people tend to do stupid things at times. I know I did, and I'm sure most of the folks here raging about the incident did as well.
assume Laura is getting a lot of interest tonight
I'm assuming he didn't want to leave his car, unattended, on the streets of Liverpool.
Anyone know what sort of car he was driving? I'm assuming it's not a high end super car due to low salary but perhaps a reasonably fast/powerful car.
Reason I ask is most young footballers drive something fast and therefore under the influence of alcohol will make it more dangerous then say driving a 1.3 Yaris hybrid. This will no doubt have some bearing on his case
Will be interesting to see what Klopp and the board do. Keeping him out of the first team will likely elevate the situation however he needs to made an example of and punished. He should at the very least get fined by his club.
Anyone know what sort of car he was driving? I'm assuming it's not a high end super car due to low salary but perhaps a reasonably fast/powerful car.
Reason I ask is most young footballers drive something fast and therefore under the influence of alcohol will make it more dangerous then say driving a 1.3 Yaris hybrid. This will no doubt have some bearing on his case
Will be interesting to see what Klopp and the board do. Keeping him out of the first team will likely elevate the situation however he needs to made an example of and punished. He should at the very least get fined by his club.
This type of nonsense annoys me when it comes to this subject. Lee Hughes killed someone (wasn't it a father and his kids?) a few years back. Jimmy Davis got himself killed. Drunk driving is not like getting drunk and making an arse of yourself at a frat party. People die regularly from it. Two of my friends messed up their late teens by doing it - the legal trouble was only part of it, they were both mentally scarred by what they got themselves into. No "faux" outrage is needed, it's a fecked up thing to do. Especially when you've got the means to get a taxi home.
Are Liverpool going to wear tshirts in support of firmino?
@PickledRed does seem to be over the limit for drama in this thread. Needs to be breathalyzed, I think.
There's a difference here though. Self harm versus potential to harm others. And how much harm that stupid action can potentially do. A line has to be be drawn in that respect.
I wouldn't give a damn if a someone decided to do something stupid that hurt himself or just annoyed others, that's his own fault and he'll learn from it. Probably laugh at their stupidity if it's funny. (Balotelli)
But I'll be justifiably outraged if someone did something that can potentially hurt others, and no, being young is not an excuse when you try to explain to a victim's family why you mowed down their loved ones in a drunken stupor.
I have never driven drunk before, I a friend/former teammate was killed by a drunk driver and my Mom is a member of MADD. But, I still think there needs to be a bit more nuance when it comes to the drunk driving discussion. The reason why so many people still drive drunk is that the vast majority of the time they did it they got to their destination with no issues at all. Driving drunk increases your chances of getting into an accident but, it is far from a steadfast guarantee that you will get into an accident. Driving drunk definitely increases your risk but, so does driving after getting very little sleep but, people do that everyday. Driving while on certain medication also increases your risk but, people do that everyday. And there is certain drivers who drive in an aggressive style that will make them a danger to them self and everyone else on the road. There is always a risk of harming yourself or others on the road even if you do not do anything deliberately wrong.
If you hit someone travelling in a large metal box thing on wheels at anything over ''moving very slowly'' the outcome is not really dependent on what kind of vehicle you're in.
He isn't going to get sacked for any number of reasons - unless LFC have gone stark raving mad.
I do find the outrage a little bit over the top - but that might be because I accept that these & other stupid dangerous things go on every weekend of the year. We individually & collectively probably do accept drink-driving (or used to) far too casually if we haven't been directly affected by it. But, I do think the outrage should be a bit more general than asking for footballers to be sacked though, tbh. After all, it might be one of our key players that gets caught by the Plod at the New Year,
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He isn't going to get sacked for any number of reasons - unless LFC have gone stark raving mad.
I do find the outrage a little bit over the top - but that might be because I accept that these & other stupid dangerous things go on every weekend of the year. We individually & collectively probably do accept drink-driving (or used to) far too casually if we haven't been directly affected by it. But, I do think the outrage should be a bit more general than asking for footballers to be sacked though, tbh. After all, it might be one of our key players that gets caught by the Plod at the New Year,
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I think I agree. I don't condone drunk driving at all but it's one of many serious mistakes which cause accidents. People speeding or simply not paying attention are also common killers. Fellaini was stopped at double the speed limit twice in six minutes but we don't seem to mind footballers speeding all that much.If you hit someone travelling in a large metal box thing on wheels at anything over ''moving very slowly'' the outcome is not really dependent on what kind of vehicle you're in.
He isn't going to get sacked for any number of reasons - unless LFC have gone stark raving mad.
I do find the outrage a little bit over the top - but that might be because I accept that these & other stupid dangerous things go on every weekend of the year. We individually & collectively probably do accept drink-driving (or used to) far too casually if we haven't been directly affected by it. But, I do think the outrage should be a bit more general than asking for footballers to be sacked though, tbh. After all, it might be one of our key players that gets caught by the Plod at the New Year,
When it comes to certain crimes, anything less than total fury can be misunderstood as condoning them (the sort of attitude satirised by Brass Eye's 'Paedogeddon!') which I don't think is always helpful.
I also don't like it when serious problems like this become a part of footballing tribalism. For example, when accusations of racism become a way of needling other teams' fans, hypocritically cheapening the problem under the guise of morality. All teams' fans do this to some extent. I'm sure there'll be plenty of Arsenal fans happy to be outraged by this while still seeing Tony Adams as a club legend.
I'm not saying that posters here are wrong to be angry, just that this sort of incident can expand in unfortunate ways.
Welcome to the internet - outrage is its lifeblood.
There is not enough faux outrage about drink driving.
People need to understand it is not much different from taking a loaded gun and doing practice shooting in public. You are wielding a lethal weapon around other people. It's insane to do so under the influence. There is great collective delusion about what a car really is and how dangerous it is. Loads of public outrage is one of the ways the insane ones might start getting it.
People need to understand it is not much different from taking a loaded gun and doing practice shooting in public. You are wielding a lethal weapon around other people. It's insane to do so under the influence. There is great collective delusion about what a car really is and how dangerous it is. Loads of public outrage is one of the ways the insane ones might start getting it.
I can get a bit outraged by how you can do something 'orrible via the use of the car & it's still treated as an 'accident' in most senses. I sometimes think the sentences should match the consequences a bit more. If you get drunk, punch someone & they are seriously injured, it's a much more severe punishment than running someone over isn't it? I don't see that they are super massively different sometimes. ''Oh, I'll just get in the car & drive home'' is equally irresponsible, really.
My opinion on zero-tolerance limits, taken from another drunk driving thread...
I acknowledge the difference between actively impairing yourself via drinking, and passively being impaired due to external unavoidable factors, but only with the former is driving treated as a life or death exercise, and driving under the latter is a spectrum of risk management...
I think had Klopp had Europe to contend with Liverpool wouldn't have had a positive net spend in the summer. He'd likely have sold who he sold but bought more in. He wilfully slimmed the squad due to the lighter fixture programme. He's clearly seen that a genuine assault on the league is achievable with what he has.
Of course no Europe is a huge advantage this season but it's not as if this hadn't been considered in terms of Klopp's squad building. The squad is a tad light but not desperately so. A lot has been made about Coutinho's absence but Liverpool have still scored plenty (11) in his absence. I'd say it's a squad built to compete domestically. Makes sense.
I get the Europe thing - last season Liverpool played more games than anybody else, which meant the league became an irrelevance from the start of April onwards.