Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

[Rob]

So basically you just want Henderson replaced no matter what?
Fans tend to be fickle, but to not remember how well Henderson performed before his injury (and how it reflected on stats as well, most passes) is not even fickle, it's straight up case of utter amnesia.

And you people never learn, you did the same to him when Klopp came in and he couldn't train due to injury, so you watched us suddenly play with more intensity, and quickly implied Henderson won't be able to walk into this side, let alone be one of its best players. Then he recovered, walked into the side and bossed the midfield again and again. He's still our best midfielder, you know? No amounts of overhead kicks from Emre "I don't really know how to create chances" Can can (feck) change that.

Another player that gets tons of people moaning about how we need to buy a replacement, is Clyne, and honestly at first I thought people were having a laugh slagging him off, but then I realised that's because the fans don't really look at defence, ever. Fans' critique comes from watching us attack, so there's very little admiration for someone that simply does his job and keeps his mouth shut about it. Clyne is not the problem, whoever plays on the right wing, tends to be the problem. The right side of defence is solid in comparison to the clinically dead Lovren-Milner combo, not to mention Clyne is less wasteful in his passing and duels he takes on than Milner on the other side. He is also not the kinda player who would lose his temper, his play is patient despite him probably hearing the moans from the stands every time he is trying to get some composure and make sure he's covered at the back, before foolishly dancing into the box, losing the ball and then seeing the lower-tier shithouses score on the counter. The last two sentences apply to Milner's style of fullback play, btw.

In any case, you people won't realise what you have until it's gone, especially in case of Clyne, the most reliable and defensively solid right-back we've had in pretty much decades at this point. I understand the Henderson critique because he's injury prone and it's not that hard to forget about him, but Clyne critics are football equivalents of flat earth society.

Well, as solid as Henderson is, I think we need better if we are to strive for more succes in both the Premier League and Champions League. I'll be more than happy to accept it, if he makes me look stupid in a couple of months, mind.

I'm not sure who "you people" are, and what assumptions you are making on my behalf from so long ago. I actually like Henderson, but just think we need better, if we are to elevate our current position. He's better than Emre Can, I agree.

As for Clyne, I'm not sure why you are bringing him into it. I really like him, and again you are referring to me as "you people", even though I've never commented on him. He's very solid and definitely not an area we need to focus on this summer.

By the way, I'm not English, so I apologize in advance if any of my post is hard to understand.

 

[Thisistheone]

The ref made a monumental blunder there - only Jim Beglin could justify Atkinson's feck up there. Arsenal's inadequacies did a very good job ensuring Liverpool qualified for the Champions League, so too did Liverpool's solid record in the big games.

Yeah, hats off to them for that. 0 defeats against the top 7 is it?

Obviously playing Chelsea away before Conte found his winning system was a big slice of luck.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Wenger benching Sanchez at Anfield was a good help, too.

 

[Lizard]

True and I'm going to sound very bitter now but so what, I think you've been very lucky to get top 4.

You've stumbled over the line, the brilliant pre-xmas football long gone.
Watford away you were struggling, it took a freak Emre Can goal to get a massive 3 points for you.
That pen/red card yesterday.
Playing Chelsea away before Conte found his winning system
And playing Arsenal away first game of the season when they were missing so many key players turned out to be a vital 6 pointer.

But hey, you're there now so good luck.

One thing I'll praise you on, your big game record is superb.

Not trying to be a cnut, but since the "refs gave Liverpool top 4" will soon be a prevailing narrative, I'd like to point out that perhaps United were lucky to be top 6 this season.

Mkhitaryan's goal against Moyes was offside, West Ham didn't deserve to get a red card against you lot, you didn't deserve Ibrahimovic's goal to stand since it was offside, Ibrahimovic then went on to score more offside goals, like the one against Palace in your first encounter, and the one against us that was assisted by Valencia, who was offside.

So I really don't see why the referee debate should apply to Liverpool alone, when you lot could've easily be battling it out with Ev for 6th if it weren't for linos and that Feghouli red card.

One thing I'll praise you on, at least you got trophies this season.

 

[RedEM10]

Top 4 probably about right. We couldn't blame no one but ourselves for making a mess of easy home ties V weak teams. Arsenal were all over the place in spells this year. Chelsea and Spurs - brilliant. Man City finished the season strong and Liverpool's big game record is excellent.

 

[RedEM10]

Not trying to be a cnut, but since the "refs gave Liverpool top 4" will soon be a prevailing narrative, I'd like to point out that perhaps United were lucky to be top 6 this season.

Mkhitaryan's goal against Moyes was offside, West Ham didn't deserve to get a red card against you lot, you didn't deserve Ibrahimovic's goal to stand since it was offside, Ibrahimovic then went on to score more offside goals, like the one against Palace in your first encounter, and the one against us that was assisted by Valencia, who was offside.

So I really don't see why the referee debate should apply to Liverpool alone, when you lot could've easily be battling it out with Ev for 6th if it weren't for linos and that Feghouli red card.

One thing I'll praise you on, at least you got trophies this season.

Swear it was about 3-0 anyway

 

[Lizard]

Well, as solid as Henderson is, I think we need better if we are to strive for more succes in both the Premier League and Champions League. I'll be more than happy to accept it, if he makes me look stupid in a couple of months, mind.

I'm not sure who "you people" are, and what assumptions you are making on my behalf from so long ago. I actually like Henderson, but just think we need better, if we are to elevate our current position. He's better than Emre Can, I agree.

As for Clyne, I'm not sure why you are bringing him into it. I really like him, and again you are referring to me as "you people", even though I've never commented on him. He's very solid and definitely not an area we need to focus on this summer.

By the way, I'm not English, so I apologize in advance if any of my post is hard to understand.

Nobody we can financially and otherwise afford to bring in the club could match Henderson though, at least not short-term.
And the second half of my post applies more to Clyne critics from previous pages, I do apologise for involving you.

 

[Xaviesta]

Yeah, hats off to them for that. 0 defeats against the top 7 is it?

Obviously playing Chelsea away before Conte found his winning system was a big slice of luck.

Yeah undefeated and by my count Liverpool earned 26 points from a possible 36 in their games against Chelsea (4), Spurs (4), City (4), Arsenal (6), United (2) and Everton (6).

 

[Thisistheone]

Not trying to be a cnut, but....

....the one against us that was assisted by Valencia, who was offside.

Spot on with your Jurgen impression.

 

[PickledRed]

True and I'm going to sound very bitter now but so what, I think you've been very lucky to get top 4.

You've stumbled over the line, the brilliant pre-xmas football long gone.
Watford away you were struggling, it took a freak Emre Can goal to get a massive 3 points for you.
That pen/red card yesterday.
Playing Chelsea away before Conte found his winning system
And playing Arsenal away first game of the season when they were missing so many key players turned out to be a vital 6 pointer.

But hey, you're there now so good luck.

One thing I'll praise you on, your big game record is superb.

76 points and lucky? No team has ever had to secure top 4 with such a high number.

It's been well earned.

 

[Thisistheone]

76 points and lucky? No team has ever had to secure top 4 with such a high number.

It's been well earned.

Well earned, and Klopp has punched above his weight in terms of your wages vs us and City? Like Poch at Spurs.

I'm just pointing out things I have felt went for you, as a Utd fan who wanted you to miss out on CL. I wanted Arsenal to get in again because whats Wenger gonna do thats a threat to us? Nothing. Klopp on the other hand with CL football and better players is a worry for me going forward.

 

[Rafateria]

Nobody we can financially and otherwise afford to bring in the club could match Henderson though, at least not short-term.
And the second half of my post applies more to Clyne critics from previous pages, I do apologise for involving you.

And you know this how ? The fact Klopp is after Naby Keita who clearly plays in Henderson's current role, shows that you are way off base. And as I pointed out, Henderson's injury is permanent, it's not something that can be cured only managed .. do you want to rely on that next season with CL in addition to PL etc ? We won't, we know we need more than just depth there and that Henderson + Can (and with Lucas leaving) is nowhere near enough.

Clyne : you are clearly out of step with the majority of Liverpool supporters and also with understanding the role of the modern day FB. No longer can FBs get away with just being defensively sound and passing the ball to a midfielder/winger, as you are intimating. Just look at the best FBs in the world, nay even just in the PL (Rose, Walker, Valencia, Alonso, Azpilicueta, Bellerin etc. etc.) and it's clear that FBs now have the most demanding position in football. Clearly you don't understand it because you criticise Milner for losing the ball in the final third (ignoring his defensive duties according to you) - whilst you are ignoring the fact that when one FB is attacking the other should drop back to give at least 3 players in defensive positions. Interestingly Sessegnon, our No.1 target for LB is just that - an attacking FB in the style of those mentioned above.

Clyne's lack of attacking acumen and crossing ability is a contributory factor to narrowing and slowing the game and in breakdowns in attacks, we need better. AA is, in attacking ability, already much better, hopefully he can develop the defensive side of his game - which is already good. I'm not attacking Clyne's defensive ability. On a similar note I notice a lot of calls for Milner to be given a go at RB (though as a support player for that position only, for me) simply because he would bring the same energy to it that he has at LB (but he'd now be on his right foot and not have to check infield to cross).

 

[Thisistheone]

And as I pointed out, Henderson's injury is permanent, it's not something that can be cured only managed .

Interesting info because Fergie got a lot of stick for predicting this in his book years ago as a reason for not signing Henderson.

 

[Rafateria]

Interesting info because Fergie got a lot of stick for predicting this in his book years ago as a reason for not signing Henderson.

I'm not sure if it's the same thing (I think it was his gait that worried him) but if it is then he was way ahead of the curve and called it spot on. Henderson has Plantar Fasciitis.

EDIT - a quick Google brings up this article (there are lots more of course) : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...entire-career-with-incurable-foot-injury.html

 

[Kurosawa]

Nobody we can financially and otherwise afford to bring in the club could match Henderson though, at least not short-term.
And the second half of my post applies more to Clyne critics from previous pages, I do apologise for involving you.

If this were true, we might as well give up. Henderson is mediocre. In fact we could easily replace him by signing a reject from one of the top clubs. (Kovacic, Roberto, Rabiot?)

The only reason we should keep him is the need for depth in a season where we want to remain competitive on all fronts, but personally I'd sell if an offer came in, because he'll likely be overpriced. Henderson is not the guy to take us forward. He is also not a young player with great potential to justify making him a starter.

Clyne is another average player who is lucky because there are far more pressing issues in our first 11 than Rb. All our attacks go to die on his flank. He is also not a very smart footballer (we have a few of these, Lovren being another). We can just about carry him for one more season if we manage to get 1) Cb to partner Matip 2) CM / DM, maybe both 3) LW to allow Coutinho to get into his best position 4) LB so that we have proper balance on the left side.

 

[Bojan11]

Sums up the refs this season really. Did Liverpool get quite lucky this season?

Yes.

Even against West Ham they got away with a handball that should have been a penalty.

 

[Lizard]

And you know this how ? The fact Klopp is after Naby Keita who clearly plays in Henderson's current role, shows that you are way off base.

I'm really not though, since none of us know how Keita will adapt to PL, that is if we're even going to get him. Looking at how we tend to operate in the transfer market, there's already less than 50-50 chance of that move ever happening. Meanwhile, Henderson was consistently a top 3 midfielder before his injury, our performances as well as his personal stats clearly prove it.

do you want to rely on that next season with CL in addition to PL etc ?

Never said "don't strengthen the squad at all mate", did I?

Clyne : you are clearly out of step with the majority of Liverpool supporters and also with understanding the role of the modern day FB.

Ah yes, the "you don't understand fullback role, grandpa" argument. It's often the only argument the anti-Clyne party have. Except he puts in crosses regularly, takes on players, is better at holding the ball than Milner is, he just simply won't score, and he'll always drop back when needed. If you think his first touch or whatever's the reason why the build-up gets slowed down, you're having a laugh as you've clearly never seen how our midfield operates whenever they notice a gap closing, it's immediately a backpass to Matip and hopeless standing around, yet people don't notice until the ball gets to Clyne, then the atmosphere at Anfield suddenly resembles something of a public execution event, just because the guy has no personality. I'm also fairly certain less people would have a problem with his style of play if Mane wasn't injured.
Clyne is the best you're going to get, bring in anyone else and your right side's getting as exposed as the left.

AA is, in attacking ability, already much better, hopefully he can develop the defensive side of his game - which is already good.

This is a laughable statement. We're talking about an England international going against a youngster that's hardly a defender, on a PL level at least. There's no way AA will remain a fullback, if he wants to have a career in top flight, and he's nowhere near Clyne's level overall.

 

[KM]

How the feck are their so many Liverpool fans here all of a sudden?

 

[plex]

How the feck are their so many Liverpool fans here all of a sudden?

There will be even more if the team fecks up the EL final

 

[SirScholes]

How the feck are their so many Liverpool fans here all of a sudden?

Doesn't matter all the more to laugh at, Liverpool are like spurs, have spots of sunshine but will ever be a consistent threat

 

[Ban]

How the feck are their so many Liverpool fans here all of a sudden?

They're all over the place.

 

[mark_a]

How the feck are their so many Liverpool fans here all of a sudden?

Don't you remember how they all crawled out of the woodwork the other season, before the slip? All that "we can dream" stuff.

 

[mark_a]

It's very difficult to be magnanimous to Liverpool fans. I'm old enough to remember how lacking any much grace in victory they were in the 70s and 80s and how bitter and snide they were to us during out success 92 onwards.

But he's right, coming 4th is like winning a trophy, except without the trophy bit.

 

[Minimalist]

Good job done by Klopp overall let's be fair. I don't (or at least I didn't) think that squad is anywhere near good enough to make top four but he pulled it off. Praise when it's due.

Key moment now. Does he continue to take them further or will transfers in/out start to halt things?

 

[Fridge chutney]

How the feck are their so many Liverpool fans here all of a sudden?

They don't often have much to gloat about, so you can't blame them for taking the opportunity to do so when it arises.

 

[mark_a]

Interesting info because Fergie got a lot of stick for predicting this in his book years ago as a reason for not signing Henderson.

SAF got a lot of stick for quotes from that book taken out of context in the press. Obviously Liverpool fans would never read the book, so just got the arse about selected contextualised quotes.

 

[mark_a]

Good job done by Klopp overall let's be fair. I don't (or at least I didn't) think that squad is anywhere near good enough to make top four but he pulled it off. Praise when it's due.

Key moment now. Does he continue to take them further or will transfers in/out start to halt things?

I'll say this, they all had lovely skin & their grooming game was strong this season.

 

[sizzling sausages]

No. But continue believing that every fan dreams of Klopp as their manager.

I like managers that attract big signings. Klopp hasn't and doesn't. So what's the point in us having a big budget if he would rather work with what he's got and play youngsters? He's perfect for Liverpool and their owners cause they don't attract the big players anyway and are generally are a selling club. He just has to get top 4 and all their fans are happy. He wouldn't last at United cause to us real fans, coming fourth is a bad season when you're the richest and most successful club in England.

If Mourinho wins Wednesday, it'll be a good season for us and a better season than Klopp.

What makes United fans more real than Liverpool fans?

 

[tomaldinho1]

That is just embarrassing if he actually said that

 

[PickledRed]

Well earned, and Klopp has punched above his weight in terms of your wages vs us and City? Like Poch at Spurs.

I'm just pointing out things I have felt went for you, as a Utd fan who wanted you to miss out on CL. I wanted Arsenal to get in again because whats Wenger gonna do thats a threat to us? Nothing. Klopp on the other hand with CL football and better players is a worry for me going forward.

Fair enough

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Actually most people didn't predict our form would go to crap around Xmas .. here on the Caf most people thought we were in with a chance of the title ! And everyone is aware that our form went to pot in January - February due to a lack of depth in the squad and a similar absentee list to United's. Most predictions here said we wouldn't last the season and our pressing game would mean we tired seriously and would fall away ... well we put that theory to bed since we finished the last 12 games with a W8, D3, L1 record, and zero goals conceded in the last 4 games, even if injuries (and nerves) hindered being able to play as fluently as in the first half of the season.

I think there were a considerable number of people who felt that your pressing game and lack of squad depth would be exposed as soon as you had to play three games a week. I was one of them, but I'm not trying to make a "told you so" post.

As for next Summer ... I'm sure you're right on spending. £120m net has been the figure reliable sources have been espousing (so maybe £160-180m depending on who departure). I don't think we'll see a 'slew of departures' at all, as one poster mentioned above. We need to improve squad depth so we probably won't see many senior players leaving (Moreno & Sakho of course, maybe Lucas, maybe Sturridge - though I actually think he'll stay - and some fringe on-loan players) but we're more likely see 5-6 new first team standard players arrive to supplement what we have.

What type of player do you think you'll sign? I don't know why, but it interests me to see what direction you go in the market under Klopp. Normally I'd just ignore it entirely. You've gone the "moneyball" route in recent years, signing depth over quality in a lot of cases, but obviously signing the odd very good player as well. I'm curious to see if you try and change this up, or if you stick to the same ethos (which would make sense considering Klopp is one of the most "moneyball" managers around).

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Honestly, is there any point Liverpool qualifying for a competition that their squad is woefully ill prepared for and won't be competitive in? Plus, it will distract them from making a proper challenge for the title (just ask Leicester!). Don't want to put a dampener on things but...

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Honestly, is there any point Liverpool qualifying for a competition that their squad is woefully ill prepared for and won't be competitive in? Plus, it will distract them from making a proper challenge for the title (just ask Leicester!). Don't want to put a dampener on things but...

But by that logic, why do 90% of teams exist at all when they have feck all chance of being competitive?

Liverpool shouldn't even be thinking about challenging for the title, Liverpool should be thinking about consistently finishing with 75+ points and going far in cup competitions over a prolonged period, to do that they need more players, and to get more players they need more money and better opportunities, which the champions league provides. A one off fluke is what it is, Liverpool must strategically build for more than that, and the champions league helps.

Also, the squad will be added to, to make it better prepared for European football, obviously.

 

[Trikie]

How they got away with that Lovren foul - pen and red card I'll never know.

Huge call from the ref that gave them CL football.

The Reds defender got the wrong side of Bamford after a neat one-two and brought him down as the last man with the score 0-0 and Bamford revealed he spoke to Atkinson during the interval over his decision.

“I asked the ref at half-time why it wasn’t a penalty and said it was because I put the brakes on and waited for him to come through me,”

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

But by that logic, why do 90% of teams exist at all when they have feck all chance of being competitive?

Liverpool shouldn't even be thinking about challenging for the title, Liverpool should be thinking about consistently finishing with 75+ points and going far in cup competitions over a prolonged period, to do that they need more players, and to get more players they need more money and better opportunities, which the champions league provides. A one off fluke is what it is, Liverpool must strategically build for more than that, and the champions league helps.

Also, the squad will be added to, to make it better prepared for European football, obviously.

Just don't see the point of teams taking up a place in a competition to make up the numbers. Even though we finished below Liverpool in the leagues our squad depth is much better placed to challenge on multiple fronts. Just look at our respective benches - we regularly had players like Romero, Blind, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Darmian, Carrick, Rooney, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, etc on our bench - Liverpool mainly seemed to have a bunch of youngsters that I'd never heard of on theirs!

 

[Rafateria]

Just don't see the point of teams taking up a place in a competition to make up the numbers.

fecking hilarious post that seems to miss the total essence of sport .. and of being a football fan. By your criteria, and judging on recent form, we should reduce the PL to two teams : City & Chelsea (obviously United can't be included with the last four season finishes of 7th, 4th, 5th & 6th) and the Champions League to Real Madrid and ... well I guess Atletico, Barca, Juve and Bayern all just scrape in. Everyone else can just go home and disband.

 

[Judge Red]

If we win the EL on Wednesday, a side effect will be UEFA screwing Liverpool over becoming more likely.

 

[Speedy30]

If we win the EL on Wednesday, a side effect will be UEFA screwing Liverpool over becoming more likely.

How will that happen?

 

[montpelier]

The Reds defender got the wrong side of Bamford after a neat one-two and brought him down as the last man with the score 0-0 and Bamford revealed he spoke to Atkinson during the interval over his decision.

“I asked the ref at half-time why it wasn’t a penalty and said it was because I put the brakes on and waited for him to come through me,”

I don't know what Atkinson thinks he's seeing but it isn't that is it? It doesn't explain Lovren hilariously plunging headlong from behind either.

I wondered if super ref Mr A let's the play go on after the outside the box stuff & then thinks the grappling in the box is a separate incident he doesn't think amounts to a pen cos it's a 50/50 scrap. So enough doubt / not enough bottle = no pen.

Boro were ROBBED !!!

 

[Rafateria]

I'm really not though, since none of us know how Keita will adapt to PL, that is if we're even going to get him. Looking at how we tend to operate in the transfer market, there's already less than 50-50 chance of that move ever happening. Meanwhile, Henderson was consistently a top 3 midfielder before his injury, our performances as well as his personal stats clearly prove it.

That clearly isn't the point I was making ... it was that Klopp most obviously does not agree with you. He is obviously moving for a first team player (Keita will not come cheap, in the £35-40m range) to replace Henderson at 'DM' (we don't exactly play a DM but that's the position Henderson currently 'sits' in) ! If we don't get Keita then it will someone else of his ilk - and Henderson will be pushed either forward or on to the bench, whenever he's fit.

Ah yes, the "you don't understand fullback role, grandpa" argument. It's often the only argument the anti-Clyne party have. Except he puts in crosses regularly, takes on players, is better at holding the ball than Milner is, he just simply won't score, and he'll always drop back when needed. If you think his first touch or whatever's the reason why the build-up gets slowed down, you're having a laugh as you've clearly never seen how our midfield operates whenever they notice a gap closing, it's immediately a backpass to Matip and hopeless standing around, yet people don't notice until the ball gets to Clyne, then the atmosphere at Anfield suddenly resembles something of a public execution event, just because the guy has no personality. I'm also fairly certain less people would have a problem with his style of play if Mane wasn't injured.
Clyne is the best you're going to get, bring in anyone else and your right side's getting as exposed as the left.

Clyne does NOT put in the crosses regularly (and those he does are very rarely good ones !) and it also very reticent to take on players because he lacks the pace to beat them, just compare him to those FBs I listed above, there is no way his attacking is anywhere near their level. He is however great at maintaining possession and so it goes down the line and is then recycled backwards or infield time and time again, unless, when they are playing, Lallana, Firmino or Mane get hold of it. BTW Milner's take on stats are far superior to Clyne's, as are his 'key passes, and forward passes (38 to 28 per match) so that isn't even an argument. Clyne's defensive stats are far superior to Milner's but then we all knew that already. Basically it proves that Milner is a converted midfielder far better in attack and Clyne is a defensive minded FB.

This is a laughable statement. We're talking about an England international going against a youngster that's hardly a defender, on a PL level at least. There's no way AA will remain a fullback, if he wants to have a career in top flight, and he's nowhere near Clyne's level overall.

When it comes to AA it seems that Klopp, yet again, doesn't seem to agree with you, which is why AA is on the bench virtually every PL match now. I have to wonder why your opinion is so at odds with our manager ? Your assessment of him also tells me you do not follow Liverpool's youngsters at all, and seem to know virtually zero about AA, because he is seen as probably the best to come through our academy in quite a while and all the coaching staff agree he is destined for a big future.