I’m talking about the parents you said needed educating.maybe to a point but I think society teaches us far more these days on these subjects. On the street, TV, music etc. I mean, it's all pretty normal now isn't it?
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I’m talking about the parents you said needed educating.maybe to a point but I think society teaches us far more these days on these subjects. On the street, TV, music etc. I mean, it's all pretty normal now isn't it?
And only a fool would make that a difficult question to answer. Because they love each other.And when the story has 2 same sex parents, and kids ask why, then what? Then you have to answer the question... and that’s called educating.
Since when did I advocate homophobia? I recall arguing these lessons should be taught in school just not as early as some are arguing in this thread. Think you need to read up on the definition of homophobe.Calling homophobia wrong is racist and a sign of white privilege is my new favourite argument ever made on the Caf.
And why is the answer for the parents different to the kids? Society has made big strides in this respect and will no doubt continue to do so, we see it normalised everywhere now and that is a good thing.I’m talking about the parents you said needed educating.
Gay people exist, so they do HAVE to learn about it.It's okay if they HAVE to learn about it.
One of those is real, the other isn’t.There are two lobbies at play right now. An anti gay lobby and a "everyone should be gay" lobby.
What is that "everyone should be gay" lobby, could you give examples? And examples for how they supposedly lobby to enforce homosexual "lifestyle choices" on others?What Agenda? There are two lobbies at play right now. An anti gay lobby and a "everyone should be gay" lobby. They're both working hard to enforce their views and lifestyle choices on other people and more importantly on schools.
Ain’t nothing too it, white privilege made me do itCalling homophobia wrong is racist and a sign of white privilege is my new favourite argument ever made on the Caf.
Decriminalisation and accepting morally are totally different things. By decriminalising paedophilia for non acting paedophiles it allows them to seek treatment without the threat of persecution, the idea being that it would stop crimes occurring rather than your disingenuous claim that it's normalising it.I didn't say that, I said under liberalism there is nothing to stop it being normalised. By all means show me how liberalism can limit it if society accepts it? There is already a movement to decriminalize paedophilia for non acting paedophiles. Go Google it.
You think kids might be 'turned' gay by being made aware homosexuality exists ffsSince when did I advocate homophobia? I recall arguing these lessons should be taught in school just not as early as some are arguing in this thread. Think you need to read up on the definition of homophobe.
That’s educating.And only a fool would make that a difficult question to answer. Because they love each other.
I didn’t say that. You said schools should normalize but not educate. That’s impossible. I said both kids and adults need educating so that it can be normalized.And why is the answer for the parents different to the kids? Society has made big strides in this respect and will no doubt continue to do so, we see it normalised everywhere now and that is a good thing.
I've already given you examples in my previous post you ignored. The school that has unisex toilets, making plenty of male and female uncomfortable, just so that it doesn't make any students who don't identify as male or female uncomfortable. That was the work of a LGBQT lobby group.What is that "everyone should be gay" lobby, could you give examples? And examples for how they supposedly lobby to enforce homosexual "lifestyle choices" on others?
How’s that homophobic though? We aren’t scientific experts on how kids become gay etc it’s all still up for debate and recently scientists said there isn’t really a gay gene which would suggest environmental factors play a part. That isn’t to say it isn’t natural, just that there might be a process for some en route to becoming gay rather than coming out of the womb in a predetermined manner.You think kids might be 'turned' gay by being made aware homosexuality exists ffs
Unisex bathrooms tell everyone to be gay?I've already given you examples in my previous post you ignored. The school that has unisex toilets, making plenty of male and female uncomfortable, just so that it doesn't make any students who don't identify as male or female uncomfortable. That was the work of a LGBQT lobby group.
Just because you haven't come across them, doesn't make them fake.Gay people exist, so they do HAVE to learn about it.
One of those is real, the other isn’t.
I can’t really take the rest of your post seriously when you’ve got stuff like that in it.
Everything happens in gradual steps, this is the first step. Regardless, it was example that liberalism sets no boundaries.Decriminalisation and accepting morally are totally different things. By decriminalising paedophilia for non acting paedophiles it allows them to seek treatment without the threat of persecution, the idea being that it would stop crimes occurring rather than your disingenuous claim that it's normalising it.
'Liberalism' is at least trying to sort some of the issues that religion have had millennia to sort and failed miserably.
Ok, I'm not saying normalising isn't educating CR, of course it is. The way I see life is that every day is a school day. I just mean that I would prefer to see that than having specific syllabus in the curriculum that's all and leave the real social education to me as a parent.That’s educating.
I didn’t say that. You said schools should normalize but not educate. That’s impossible. I said both kids and adults need educating so that it can be normalized.
I think the study you are referring to just said there isn't one 'gay gene', but rather, homosexuality is influenced by a multitude of genetic variantsHow’s that homophobic though? We aren’t scientific experts on how kids become gay etc it’s all still up for debate and recently scientists said there isn’t really a gay gene which would suggest environmental factors play a part. That isn’t to say it isn’t natural, just that there might be a process for some en route to becoming gay rather than coming out of the womb in a predetermined manner.
They force some girls and boys not to use the bathroom at school because they feel uncomfortable sharing with people of the opposite gender. You've got no leg to stand on and have no resorted to blatent trolling. You're last two posts have been poor jobs at trolling; i should know.Unisex bathrooms tell everyone to be gay?
No. You said there is an everyone should be gay camp and used mixed gender bathrooms to back that point up which is complete shite.They force some girls and boys not to use the bathroom at school because they feel uncomfortable sharing with people of the opposite gender. You've got no leg to stand on and have no resorted to blatent trolling. You're last two posts have been poor jobs at trolling; i should know.
I can’t really say anything better than what @SilentWitness just said.They force some girls and boys not to use the bathroom at school because they feel uncomfortable sharing with people of the opposite gender. You've got no leg to stand on and have no resorted to blatent trolling. You're last two posts have been poor jobs at trolling; i should know.
Just to pick up on this, i have the same criticism about how Islam was taught to me. For years it was all fire and brimstone as a kids and it was irrelevant, it was motions, it was fear of upsetting God. It drew me away from religion.Funny that this argument about innocence and the like never applies with Religion. Telling a child that some people have two dads is apparently potentially harmful to the child, but telling children if they don't follow the will of a mythical figure in the sky they'll be sent to an eternity of hell and torture is just fine.
Well, if that's really the case, I'd be opposed to it as well. I just never heard of something like that in schools, is it really part of a common development beyond singular instances in the UK?I've already given you examples in my previous post you ignored. The school that has unisex toilets, making plenty of male and female uncomfortable, just so that it doesn't make any students who don't identify as male or female uncomfortable. That was the work of a LGBQT lobby group.
You may not say it but do you believe your children will go to hell if they do not follow the teachings of Islam? (Curious question, I'm no expert on the Quran or Islamic teachings, though we are probably now diverging from the topic at hand!)Just to pick up on this, i have the same criticism about how Islam was taught to me. For years it was all fire and brimstone as a kids and it was irrelevant, it was motions, it was fear of upsetting God. It drew me away from religion.
At university was the first time i had an academic approach to Islam, i re-learnt religion based on values, rather than just this heaven/hell bottom line.
I have never mentioned death, heaven, hell to my kids unless they've asked. I have taught them Islam through the prism of right and wrong, how your decisions benefit you or can harm others. The concept of haqooq ul ibad is central to the approach i've taken. Haqooq Ul Ibaad is the duty we owe to humanity and there are rights of every soul on another. They know of heaven and hell, of death (we've faced death in the family), they know they pray because God expects it of you, but i don't say "you'll go to hell if you don't pray" or "you'll go to heaven if you do pray".
Hands up, i was wrong to term it as a "everyone should be gay" lobby, but there is certainly is a LGBQT lobby who are pushing things like teaching about LGBQT identity from an early age, the unigender toilets etc, and there is a feeling amongst people that if you don't go with it, you'll be accused of being homophobic.Well, if that's really the case, I'd be opposed to it as well. I just never heard of something like that in schools, is it really part of a common development beyond singular instances in the UK?
See, what I'm not buying is that there's an "everyone should be gay" lobby significant enough to warrant the notion of a culture war between anti-gay and "pro-gay" extremists.
As children - no. As adults, once you know what the teachings are and you accept them as true, I believe if you reject them or don't follow them correctly, and your wrong deeds outweigh your right deeds at some point you run the risk of going to hell. I have been taught that we cannot know that with certainty and that Gods mercy is infinite. As a Muslim you can have hope that any duty you have upon Allah which you have neglected could be forgiven by Allah, but any duty you have upon Allah's creation, which you neglect - only that person forgive you that sin.You may not say it but do you believe your children will go to hell if they do not follow the teachings of Islam? (Curious question, I'm no expert on the Quran or Islamic teachings, though we are probably now diverging from the topic at hand!)
Interesting, thanks.As children - no. As adults, once you know what the teachings are and you accept them as true, I believe if you reject them or don't follow them correctly, and your wrong deeds outweigh your right deeds at some point you run the risk of going to hell. I have been taught that we cannot know that with certainty and that Gods mercy is infinite. As a Muslim you can have hope that any duty you have upon Allah which you have neglected could be forgiven by Allah, but any duty you have upon Allah's creation, which you neglect - only that person forgive you that sin.
Treating gay relationships and as normal is the absolute right thing to do: first as part of general education on life, later as part of sex education. On gender-neutral toilets: as a third option there's nothing wrong with it imo, and, honestly, I haven't encountered mandatory unigender restrooms in any public place so far. It's always been Ladies & Gentlemen.Hands up, i was wrong to term it as a "everyone should be gay" lobby, but there is certainly is a LGBQT lobby who are pushing things like teaching about LGBQT identity from an early age, the unigender toilets etc, and there is a feeling amongst people that if you don't go with it, you'll be accused of being homophobic.
It's right here in this very thread. There are people who are just waiting to say it, hoping to find the right trigger to justify to themselves why their views are right and my views are wrong.
Nor does it make you transgender.I think a lot of people are confused between being gay and being transgender, sticking a dress on doesn't make someone gay nor does it turn someone into being gay.
As a parent of a 12 year old daughter I do. I don't like the idea of her being in a closed off communal area like that if there were a group of boys present. Nothing to do with anything other than potential intimidation or worse.I don't see the issue with gender neutral toilets, you have complete privacy in the stall. Is it really too much for people to share the wash basin area with... **shock horror** members of the opposite sex?
I kind of get it.As a parent of a 12 year old daughter I do. I don't like the idea of her being in a closed off communal area like that if there were a group of boys present. Nothing to do with anything other than potential intimidation or worse.
Fair enoughAs a parent of a 12 year old daughter I do. I don't like the idea of her being in a closed off communal area like that if there were a group of boys present. Nothing to do with anything other than potential intimidation or worse.
We have a winner.If you have a fear about your kids being brainwashed by what they learn in school, just know this...
You are 10000% out of touch with what kids actually learn these days.
School is but one of the ridiculous amount of information access points they have. You cannot and will not control what they learn, and you have no say in it. You need to deal with that. The best you can do is to educate yourself then educate them. Whether you like it or not, you deal with it for their sake.
Btw telling them they'll go to hell (or equivalent) for questioning their surroundings is brainwashing. It's control. And you can justify your upbringing however you want, but if you do that to your own children, if you try to force them to believe what you do, then you are wrong. You are so wrong.
Some of the reactions to this post are so worrying, looks like those who oppose want to bully their way to assert their own philosophy.If she ends up lesbian as a result of becoming confused by being bombarded by these messages before she was old enough to discover her own sexual preferences - I think that is a shame quite frankly. Likewise if she was secretly a lesbian but because I brainwash her that all homosexuality is wrong and she stays in the closet out of fear all her life.
I think messing with kids and telling them you can cross dress, you can have sex with people of the same gender etc before they have had the chance to naturally develop their sexual preference and orientation is wrong.
If I eventually end up with a kid whose homosexual so be it but I’d rather they did so naturally rather than being brainwashed from a young age.
It also stated genetics account for 25% of same sex behaviour. So environmental factors currently would account for 75% of the influence behind it. Again this is current research so this might change in the future. Bottom line being that at a very young age their sexuality is likely to not be set in stone despite some genes within them potentially pushing them towards one orientation over another.I think the study you are referring to just said there isn't one 'gay gene', but rather, homosexuality is influenced by a multitude of genetic variants
Of course I am. I just know what kids are like at that age and times are very different now. Nothing to do with being closed minded about anything.I kind of get it.
But you are in for a world of hurt.