No fan boys, people just want him to play and get over his horrible injury.
Only thing I see some posters bashing him for no reason and treating him like a crap player.
23
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Only thing I see some posters bashing him for no reason and treating him like a crap player.
He's a great prospect but that's it he needs to shape up get his head right or he is out and has no one to blame but himself.
That's what I agree with. I just don't understand some hate he gets here. And it's not about his head but about his footballing abilities.
Pre-injury, I thought Shaw was excellent.
For all our recent good form, we are crying out for a consistent, specialist left fullback.
I wonder what Jose sees that makes him think Luke Shaw isn't worth some time on the pitch?
Perhaps if we get a good result away to Rostov, we can pick him for the home leg.
Plenty of football left this season and need to utilise the full squad if we want to add another trophy.
C'mon, Jose, give him a chance....
For all our recent good form, we are crying out for a consistent, specialist left fullback.
I wonder what Jose sees that makes him think Luke Shaw isn't worth some time on the pitch?
Perhaps if we get a good result away to Rostov, we can pick him for the home leg.
Plenty of football left this season and need to utilise the full squad if we want to add another trophy.
C'mon, Jose, give him a chance....
TBH, think this kid is toast at United. Didn't even make the squad today. The recent report in the papers that he would consider leaving if he doesn't get more minutes, just smacked of a leak from his agent. Think this is the worst thing he could've done. Mourinho's issue with him clearly center around his mentality. Martial got his agent to stfu, and Micky was the consummate professional when out of favour. But Shaw has a report leaked to the paper (impossible to know source) explaining his bafflement at his treatment by the coach. This was a big mistake IMO. If he can't displace Blind, Rojo, Young or Darmian at LB, then the writing is on the wall for him, as all four of them are average or poor full backs. Even Blind, who is our best LB currently, has glaring weaknesses to his game which are regularly exposed against competent or fast wingers.
It's a shame, because I had high hopes for him. But in hindsight paying 27M for a teenage left back and giving him a huge contract, was always a questionable decision. Even Jose, when at Chelsea, said they wouldn't pursue that deal because it would 'break' the club. His injury has had a big effect clearly, but even when he arrived at the club, LVG was on his case for being unfit and over weight. We've made some shocking decisions post Fergie, and both Moyes and LVG filled our squad with average players and made ludicrous contract offers to existing players.
Fellaini 28M
Bastian 3 years at 200K a week.
Rooney 5 years at 300K a week
Januzaj 5 years at 50K+ a week after a few good games
Shaw 27m and 5 years at 120K a week (for a teenage leftback)
Darmian 14M and he's pants
Depay 25M and a big contract
Schneiderlin 25M (I wasn't against this deal, but we obviously had no plan to use him as he was best suited. So why sign him?)
Di Maria 59M and obviously didn't want to be here. There were rumblings of that BEFORE he even came
Rojo 16M and was shocking until Roberto Ayala quantum leaped into his body and changed his life.
Falcao - Eleventy billion a week for an aging player coming off an ACL rupture. Plus a 15M loan fee?
Valdes - Why?
Herrera, Mata and Blind were all good or decent signings. Although we horrendously overpaid for Mata. But, most importantly, we filled the squad with unproven, overpaid, or over the hill signings, and then wondered why the group culture and mentality was so piss poor.
Yet during this we still managed to feck off several serial winners, who were red through and through, like Vidic, Evra, Van Perise, Nani, Rafael, Welbeck and Chicharito - and did so for pennies. Cases can be made for all their exits, but the manner of them - as well as their mediocre or shit replacements - makes for a poor indictment of management performance. We even got rid of Buttner ffs. That's when I think we all knew we were fecked.
Mourinho has been a revelation in breaking this insipid culture and bringing back that winning mentality. This has always been what differentiated United from their rivals, and why Fergie won so many trophies. At times he had an average team on paper, but would nearly always coax winning performances. If players are unable to respond to this kind of pressure, and these demands, then we are better off without them. I hope they have good careers elsewhere. I don't care if it's Shaw, Martial or another of the Caf's fan boys. It's the ruthlessness - and insatiable desire to win - that makes managers like Fergie and Mourinho the best at what they do.
I completely trust Jose when it comes to his judgement on what he is seeing from Shaw. Given the relative weakness of our LB spot, if Shaw was killing it in training, then he'd be back in the team. Something isn't right with the lad, and he better sort it out if he is going to stay. I can only speculate as to whether his mentality, fitness, or ability to follow instructions is to blame - but Jose is clearly unimpressed at the moment. If Shaw can't pull his act together and show the manager he's worthy of a starting berth, I wont lose a minutes sleep, because United will march on regardless under this manager; and any new player joining the club will be under no illusions whatsoever of the standards expected of them.
People love to level the accusation at Jose that he falls out with players or is petty, but look at what he's done with Micky and Martial. Schweinsteiger too. He's shown he's above bullshit politics. He just needs to see what he wants from his players and then they will reap the rewards. If they don't react the way he wants; they are gone. That's not falling out with people; that's being a good manager. There are just too many over paid, over hyped prima-donnas in our squad for these last 3 years. How Mourinho has turned that culture around, is the single most important thing any manager has accomplished for us post-Fergie. Furthermore, his handling of Rooney, and the way he has marginalized him - without humiliating him - has been fecking genius. He's shown the level of deference and respect one should afford a club legend; but also made it very clear that he enjoys no special privileges.
Superb manager. Whatever he decides with Shaw, I am all for it.
It's a shame, because I had high hopes for him. But in hindsight paying 27M for a teenage left back and giving him a huge contract, was always a questionable decision. Even Jose, when at Chelsea, said they wouldn't pursue that deal because it would 'break' the club. His injury has had a big effect clearly, but even when he arrived at the club, LVG was on his case for being unfit and over weight. We've made some shocking decisions post Fergie, and both Moyes and LVG filled our squad with average players and made ludicrous contract offers to existing players.
Fellaini 28M
Bastian 3 years at 200K a week.
Rooney 5 years at 300K a week
Januzaj 5 years at 50K+ a week after a few good games
Shaw 27m and 5 years at 120K a week (for a teenage leftback)
Darmian 14M and he's pants
Depay 25M and a big contract
Schneiderlin 25M (I wasn't against this deal, but we obviously had no plan to use him as he was best suited. So why sign him?)
Di Maria 59M and obviously didn't want to be here. There were rumblings of that BEFORE he even came
Rojo 16M and was shocking until Roberto Ayala quantum leaped into his body and changed his life.
Falcao - Eleventy billion a week for an aging player coming off an ACL rupture. Plus a 15M loan fee?
Valdes - Why?
Herrera, Mata and Blind were all good or decent signings. Although we horrendously overpaid for Mata. But, most importantly, we filled the squad with unproven, overpaid, or over the hill signings, and then wondered why the group culture and mentality was so piss poor.
Yet during this we still managed to feck off several serial winners, who were red through and through, like Vidic, Evra, Van Perise, Nani, Rafael, Welbeck and Chicharito - and did so for pennies. Cases can be made for all their exits, but the manner of them - as well as their mediocre or shit replacements - makes for a poor indictment of management performance. We even got rid of Buttner ffs. That's when I think we all knew we were fecked.
Mourinho has been a revelation in breaking this insipid culture and bringing back that winning mentality. This has always been what differentiated United from their rivals, and why Fergie won so many trophies. At times he had an average team on paper, but would nearly always coax winning performances. If players are unable to respond to this kind of pressure, and these demands, then we are better off without them. I hope they have good careers elsewhere. I don't care if it's Shaw, Martial or another of the Caf's fan boys. It's the ruthlessness - and insatiable desire to win - that makes managers like Fergie and Mourinho the best at what they do.
I completely trust Jose when it comes to his judgement on what he is seeing from Shaw. Given the relative weakness of our LB spot, if Shaw was killing it in training, then he'd be back in the team. Something isn't right with the lad, and he better sort it out if he is going to stay. I can only speculate as to whether his mentality, fitness, or ability to follow instructions is to blame - but Jose is clearly unimpressed at the moment. If Shaw can't pull his act together and show the manager he's worthy of a starting berth, I wont lose a minutes sleep, because United will march on regardless under this manager; and any new player joining the club will be under no illusions whatsoever of the standards expected of them.
People love to level the accusation at Jose that he falls out with players or is petty, but look at what he's done with Micky and Martial. Schweinsteiger too. He's shown he's above bullshit politics. He just needs to see what he wants from his players and then they will reap the rewards. If they don't react the way he wants; they are gone. That's not falling out with people; that's being a good manager. There are just too many over paid, over hyped prima-donnas in our squad for these last 3 years. How Mourinho has turned that culture around, is the single most important thing any manager has accomplished for us post-Fergie. Furthermore, his handling of Rooney, and the way he has marginalized him - without humiliating him - has been fecking genius. He's shown the level of deference and respect one should afford a club legend; but also made it very clear that he enjoys no special privileges.
Superb manager. Whatever he decides with Shaw, I am all for it.
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With Rojo performing terribly at LB, this could possibly mean a way back into the team for Shaw. Both Blind and Darmian are slow, so when we are up against pacy wingers, Shaw might get a chance to play. I just hope he's not thrown into the deep end against Chelsea.
He must be doing something spectacularly wrong if Rojo is getting a game at left back ahead of him. In a final no less.
Jose wanted him at Chelsea too right? Something is amiss here for sure.
Jose wanted him at Chelsea too right? Something is amiss here for sure.
I think the issue is with Shaw himself rather than the relationship between Shaw and Mourinho. I think Mourinho and his team are protecting him.
Do you think he might be mentally damaged by that injury? Totally understandable if so.
Yeah but not quite in the sensational statement "He is suffering from depression" like some have claimed. I said in this thread that I think the scenario is probably something like:
Due to the horrific nature of the injury he probably finds himself hesitating or not commuting to tackles properly or/and he avoids dribbling/running into a sea of defenders. There's a bit of a mental block there.
When I was younger I came off my bike around a roundabout and face planted the concrete. It took me years to have proper confidence around corners again as I felt like leaning into them would slip my wheels out from underneath me again. No matter how much I tried to convince myself it was safe because I'd done it successfully thousands of times before, my brain made the balance feel wrong and unstable.
I imagine Luke has a similar sensation when he throws his leg into a challenge. Or is about to be slide tackled. As such his instincts will have him making the wrong decisions.
If that's the case, it's understandable that Mourinho isn't giving him game time even in the reserves as not only can it make it even more dangerous for him, it also means Mourinho cannot fully trust him to do his job properly on the field.
What if a big strong winger was about to blast past him and get into a good position to cross, would Shaw have the confidence to put in a big tackle to stop him?
I think it's something along those lines and Mourinho understands and is letting him go through the process of overcoming it properly, no doubt working very closely with a sports psychologist.
Not sure how reliable that article is, but if it is then....
If his first reaction to criticism is to say he's being unfairly treated and his reaction to a challenge for harder work from the manager is to say that he's already not involved so he might as well go... then he might as well go. I'd still rather loan him out than immediately sell him though.
I'm just hoping these articles are bollox at this point, but there's a lot of smoke so it's likely there's a fire there. Just a shame really, I'd like him to make it here, like any other young player.
WHAT?! In case of what overpaid? Mata was the best no. 10 in the league at the time - along with David Silva, even though Silva played more as a winger at that time, but Silva is just pure class - we bought him and had in two season straight been voted as Chelsea's best player and just being a big part of Chelsea's european success with first winning the Champions LEague and the next season Euro League, even though there were a lot of tension in the background at Chelsea with the sacking of first Villas-Boas, then Di Matteo and the appointment of the Fat Spanish Waiter, Mata managed to maintain his high level of performances. It was only due to Mourinhos ridiciolous desire to have a defensively strong no. 10, that he overlooked Mata and instead picked Oscar.
Mata for 37,1 mil pund at that time was a good value and still today is. If only Mourinho would stop use him as a winger and instead of a no. 10, you'd never say that. Yeah, something is wrong, when Lingard is picked over Mata as a no. 10. Mata in the pocket, roaming around centrally would be poison for the opponent, but somehow he is overlooked every single time.
Don't expect him to still be here next season
Thats some superb essay writing bruvh. Do you think that its just Shaw as a defender who lacks finesse or instinct being the main reason for his absence. I mean its a possibility that he simply doesn't fit with his model of football, because hes so rash and frivolous in his style which i would have thought is the complete antithesis of what Mourinho wants his fullbacks to be like...
And some people love a bit of gossip and take these 'stories' as gospel truth. Notice how all these stories rotate around the players who aren't playing, Pure click bait and some people just cannot resist believing gossip that has no foundations.
Excellent post. One which I fully agree with the thrust of.
Yeah, I could envision a situation like that also.
I think what we know about Shaw's personality - a bit bright eyed and puppyish, he comes across as a young soul - would make a scenario like you described even more likely.
It'd be great if he did come back, and I do feel for him.
I've injured both my knee ligaments, and it makes me wary when I'm simply walking down the road... so although Shaw's legs will be hardier than mine, and he'll be getting the top psychological help, the nature of that injury, and the damage it's done to his own trust, would be really difficult to overcome.
If Mourinho is protecting him, and easing him slowly back into football itself, rather than straight into Manchester fecking United's first team, I just hope Shaw understands that his mental strength needs to be built back up as well as his physical.
The one thing in Shaw's favour would be his age and the fact Mourinho is trying to be the 'Utd' way.
I honestly believe he will come good and Mourinho will not want to sell.
I honestly believe he will come good and Mourinho will not want to sell.
Mourinho doesn't play him, because he has zero defensive discipline, and is a defensive liability more often than not. His start to last season was amazing, for two reasons, many of the goals scored against us, came from his defensive position. Secondly, he was a revelation going forward.
However, this is Mourinho, if you can't put in a shift defensively, you are not going to put in a shift, and Shaw would get caught up the pitch, and walk back, leaving the defense exposed, and last season before the leg break, goal after goal came through left back.
However, this is Mourinho, if you can't put in a shift defensively, you are not going to put in a shift, and Shaw would get caught up the pitch, and walk back, leaving the defense exposed, and last season before the leg break, goal after goal came through left back.
That is complete and utter, absolute nonsense.
A fit Shaw was always a top quality defensive fullback before anything else. His attacking contribution was what needed improving the most. He was beginning to learn how to support his winger but he was never "a revelation going forward" at all. He was a revelation defensively.
I'd be surprised if you actually watched him play with the description you've just given. That's just stereotypical "he's a young pacy fullback so he must have been a good attacker and rash/lazy in defence". So far from the truth.
Let's be honest. Shaw was far from amazing whenever he played for Mourinho. Maybe the injury left more scares than we initially thought.
Fair play that's just completely wrong in almost every aspect. It's like a default post people make to criticise an attacking full back when it's not the case at all.
Interesting words on the sky sports news piece from Nigel Adkins last night about Shaw
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He's not really an attacking full back though. Shaw does have a tendency to be caught up higher on the pitch exposed. In his purple patch, he had tremendous pace to salvage the situation most of the times. But he hasn't been that electric since. But I am sure he will mature and learn the art of defending over time. He is still too young and has time on his side.
I don't think that JM would be giving Shaw the "Martial/Mkhitaryan work harder treatment" if he didn't see the potential. He has all the attributes, imo, to be a top class left back plus he has the benefit of being very young and English. I can understand some of the flack that Shaw has gotten recently because his performances has been sub par, but anyone that has seen him play prior to this past year can see he has defensive skill, speed, and strength. Had he not been injured for the Euros he would have been the obvious LB choice. I hope that Shaw is giving all he can on the practice field and showing JM that he wants to stay at Manchester United. I really rate him and would be gutted if he left. Not as gutted as Rafael tho, but thats a different story
What did he say?
Exactly why I thought it was such a strange post.
Mentioned something about him needing help with everything and also how he wanted to train with the academy rather than first team which I thought was a bit strange.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...nder-at-manchester-united-under-jose-mourinho
I make you right. I think the comparisons with the others is about right. I think it's a mental issue, and want I think about Jose is he won't play players until it's right.
Wouldlnt be surprised if the "two or three" players comment JM wants to sign in the summer is giving him(Shaw) a last chance or he'll be buying a left back.
Hadn't read that before. This bit is the most concerning.
With their record at running a conveyor belt, churning out top class youngsters it's a bit of a worry that he needed such special treatment.
A one legged Luke Shaw is better at left back that Marcos Rojo and it's abhorrent that he is behind him in the pecking order.
Considering how young he was when breaking through into a Premiership team I can understand the need for plenty of support. Imagine yourself at that age with the money and attention. So the stuff from Adkins doesn't bother me.
Though I'd hope that's not the case today.
Though I'd hope that's not the case today.
Everybody is above you in the pecking order when you are not deemed fit to play. If Mourinho thinks he's not ready physically and mentally, he will put Fellaini at LB before him.
He needs to put his head down and do as his manager tells him. Simple as.
Fantastic post (although I'm a bit confused by the Buttner bit...)
It is really simple. In our current system, the offensive output of our left back is nowhere near as important as some think it is. The right winger tucks in as another 10 and the right back pushes up.
To avoid being outnumbered on the counter, the left back plays a more conservative game. This is especially important when we play 4-2-3-1 with one of the 2 being Pogba.
People on here value Shaw's offensive contribution more than Mourinho does, and by contrast underrate the impact of any mistakes he makes. Mourinho needs to trust him defensively before he starts looking at how good he can be offensively (that is secondary). As it is, rightly or wrongly, Mourinho trusts the defensive work of Blind, Rojo, and Darmian more than Shaw. Whether they can attack well or cross well is secondary in the way we set up right now.
To avoid being outnumbered on the counter, the left back plays a more conservative game. This is especially important when we play 4-2-3-1 with one of the 2 being Pogba.
People on here value Shaw's offensive contribution more than Mourinho does, and by contrast underrate the impact of any mistakes he makes. Mourinho needs to trust him defensively before he starts looking at how good he can be offensively (that is secondary). As it is, rightly or wrongly, Mourinho trusts the defensive work of Blind, Rojo, and Darmian more than Shaw. Whether they can attack well or cross well is secondary in the way we set up right now.
Exactly. Shaw has to defend first especially when we have martial and Pogba on the same side. That's why even Darmain is ahead of him.
Think a bit too much is being made out of Rojo playing at Wembley in place of Shaw. Jose was never going to let Shaw's first competitive game in ages to be a Cup final. I think he will get some minutes soon on as our fixtures pile up. Whether that is enough to get him to stay, is another matter to be decided during the summer.
Until such time, the media will have a field day though.
Until such time, the media will have a field day though.
Some people wouldn't see the truth about Shaw if it hit them in the face. The fatass hasn't done anything worth mentioning when he featured and obviously is not impressing in training either since he doesnt even make it to the fecking game squad. If he was ready, if he made some progress he would be on the bench.
FFS
FFS
Sadly I make you right. There's no science in it and if we are honest, not really seen the 30m lad we hoped he'd be. I know people talk about 'the next LB' for 10 years but footballs no longer like that and no too many variables to crystal ball players careers anymore.
Shaw needs to step up significantly as the world turned significantly since we signed him and defensively he's behind Blind for me.
Comfortable in completely trusting Mourinho's judgement on this, he's got it right so far. Not interested in rumour.
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