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Manchester United 2:1 Everton

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    Really don't understand the disrespect Everton fans have had towards Moyes after all he did for them, and the serious rewriting of history to taint him which has followed.
    Posted this on another forum in response to a Manc lad I know asking why the worm had turned as far as our opinion of Moyes is concerned. Thought it might be worth posting it here in the hope of an Amen or two.

    I loved Moyes. Loved him. For younger fans it's easy to forget just how bad the pre-Moyes era was. From about 1993 to the day that Moyes took over (with the exception of a couple of Joe Royle years in the middle of it), being an Evertonian was a largely crap experience. We had been winning the league less than a decade beforehand and yet we were consistently in the relegation mix every season. Bad management at board level and a succession of poor managers and laughably bad players for a decade made being an Everton fan a chuffing chore.

    Then one day, Moyes walks into a press conference, throws in an accidental soundbite, wins a few games and things suddenly seem optimistic. The following season he finishes 7th, Rooney emerges and we all see it's the real deal. A relegation fight the following season and Rooney leaving after it brought us all back to earth but on the back of that he manages to finish 4th the following season. There's still a few bumps along the way after that, but essentially we stabilised as a club from then on. Moyes' signings were generally good, we had a few cup runs, some big results (at home) against the bigger clubs and we were a consistent top 8 side. He helped me feel proud about being an Everton fan again because, as previously mentioned, my formative years were a chuffing nightmare as far as the blues were concerned. He did all this with an air of dignity and integrity. Phil McNulty described David Moyes as the only Everton manager who had never lied to him. When he got the United job I was gutted. I was slightly surprised but devastated all the same. I didn't, however, feel any ill will because he was leaving. He'd have been mad to turn that job down I understood why he was leaving. On the appointment of Martinez, I thought he was the best candidate of a bunch of very average names. I thought the quality of the football might improve, but results might suffer in at least the short term. Anyway, I digress...

    What has happened since he took the United job has been little short of a disgrace. He has a new club to manage now, of course, but there is no need to do that whilst disrespecting your old one.

    Firstly - he maintains he found out about the United job 4 weeks before the end of the season. I believe SAF has already debunked this in his new book? I don't see the need to continue with the lie. I'd even understand if he'd admit he was tapped up well beforehand, I would still understand him taking the job.

    Secondly - the Baines/Fellaini bids. Yes, the initial bid was a complete pisstake. Nobody knows whether Moyes had anything to do with the valuation of the bid since the trendy thing appears to be to put the blame at Woodward's door, but suffice to say that if Moyes enjoys the same level of control at United as he did at Everton, he most certainly had some input into it. His subsequent comments about the failed Herrera bid and how he didn't feel the player was worth the buyout clause would seem to support the theory that he has some involvement here. It's not the bid itself which most peed me off though.

    Asked if he had sympathy for Martinez, Moyes said: ‘I definitely do. But I also know that if I was the Everton manager and Sir Alex had come asking for Baines and Fellaini, I would have found it very difficult to keep them. I always felt the right thing to do was what was right for the players. All we can do is our job here. Roberto is in a new job and I am sure he will get to understand how Everton work. I know exactly how Everton work. I signed every player at Everton."

    The hypocrisy of the statement is just unbelievable. Moyes' comments when Man City were chasing Lescott would show this to be utter lies. He was outraged at Man City's pursuit of Lescott and had a public war of words with Mark Hughes about how he was the one who would decide whether Lescott went or not. On the flip side, even if this was bravado if Moyes was being honest and he would indeed have bent over if SAF had come calling for Baines and Fellaini then I'd be annoyed anyway.

    Thirdly - his attempts to label us as "plucky little Everton" since he left. "You want to get out of O*d T******d alive, that used to be our saying, you know." His comments about how he felt taking on the "bigger clubs" was like taking a knife to a gunfight. Yes, United is a bigger club and a bigger job, but there's ways of saying things.

    Finally - His recent comments, suggesting that he should be taking the credit for Everton's good start...

    "Everton fans see a direction that their team is going in but they need to remember I signed a lot of them"

    "But to be fair to him Roberto is doing a really good job keeping things going at Everton"

    "I told Roberto that I left such an organised team behind that they could play without a manager and still win"

    If continuing success is so easy, then perhaps Moyes could explain why he took over the Champions and currently finds himself in 8th place?


    In summary, he's thrown away the respect I and most Evertonians had for him. I always used to have a soft spot, in a way, for United. Perhaps it was an anti-Liverpool solidarity thing or something. Dunno, but whilst Moyes is there it's completely gone. I wish nothing but failure for him.

    Educate yourself but you chat shit.
     
    Posted this on another forum in response to a Manc lad I know asking why the worm had turned as far as our opinion of Moyes is concerned. Thought it might be worth posting it here in the hope of an Amen or two.

    ...

    Educate yourself but you chat shit.

    So nothing new. Literally nothing there justifies the disrespect towards him in my opinion.

    So there's a bit of contention when he was offered the United job, Woodward bid a lower amount then Everton thought appropriate, and he said if Sir Alex wanted their player and the player wanted to leave and the club offered a decent amount they would sell. Which is true.

    Crazy this is enough to turn a club against a manager who is massively responsible, whether you like it or not, for where they are now (or at least finished last season). United fans have much more reason to hate the guy.
     
    Last edited:
    Posted this on another forum in response to a Manc lad I know asking why the worm had turned as far as our opinion of Moyes is concerned. Thought it might be worth posting it here in the hope of an Amen or two.

    I loved Moyes. Loved him. For younger fans it's easy to forget just how bad the pre-Moyes era was. From about 1993 to the day that Moyes took over (with the exception of a couple of Joe Royle years in the middle of it), being an Evertonian was a largely crap experience. We had been winning the league less than a decade beforehand and yet we were consistently in the relegation mix every season. Bad management at board level and a succession of poor managers and laughably bad players for a decade made being an Everton fan a chuffing chore.

    Then one day, Moyes walks into a press conference, throws in an accidental soundbite, wins a few games and things suddenly seem optimistic. The following season he finishes 7th, Rooney emerges and we all see it's the real deal. A relegation fight the following season and Rooney leaving after it brought us all back to earth but on the back of that he manages to finish 4th the following season. There's still a few bumps along the way after that, but essentially we stabilised as a club from then on. Moyes' signings were generally good, we had a few cup runs, some big results (at home) against the bigger clubs and we were a consistent top 8 side. He helped me feel proud about being an Everton fan again because, as previously mentioned, my formative years were a chuffing nightmare as far as the blues were concerned. He did all this with an air of dignity and integrity. Phil McNulty described David Moyes as the only Everton manager who had never lied to him. When he got the United job I was gutted. I was slightly surprised but devastated all the same. I didn't, however, feel any ill will because he was leaving. He'd have been mad to turn that job down I understood why he was leaving. On the appointment of Martinez, I thought he was the best candidate of a bunch of very average names. I thought the quality of the football might improve, but results might suffer in at least the short term. Anyway, I digress...

    What has happened since he took the United job has been little short of a disgrace. He has a new club to manage now, of course, but there is no need to do that whilst disrespecting your old one.

    Firstly - he maintains he found out about the United job 4 weeks before the end of the season. I believe SAF has already debunked this in his new book? I don't see the need to continue with the lie. I'd even understand if he'd admit he was tapped up well beforehand, I would still understand him taking the job.

    Secondly - the Baines/Fellaini bids. Yes, the initial bid was a complete pisstake. Nobody knows whether Moyes had anything to do with the valuation of the bid since the trendy thing appears to be to put the blame at Woodward's door, but suffice to say that if Moyes enjoys the same level of control at United as he did at Everton, he most certainly had some input into it. His subsequent comments about the failed Herrera bid and how he didn't feel the player was worth the buyout clause would seem to support the theory that he has some involvement here. It's not the bid itself which most peed me off though.

    Asked if he had sympathy for Martinez, Moyes said: ‘I definitely do. But I also know that if I was the Everton manager and Sir Alex had come asking for Baines and Fellaini, I would have found it very difficult to keep them. I always felt the right thing to do was what was right for the players. All we can do is our job here. Roberto is in a new job and I am sure he will get to understand how Everton work. I know exactly how Everton work. I signed every player at Everton."

    The hypocrisy of the statement is just unbelievable. Moyes' comments when Man City were chasing Lescott would show this to be utter lies. He was outraged at Man City's pursuit of Lescott and had a public war of words with Mark Hughes about how he was the one who would decide whether Lescott went or not. On the flip side, even if this was bravado if Moyes was being honest and he would indeed have bent over if SAF had come calling for Baines and Fellaini then I'd be annoyed anyway.

    Thirdly - his attempts to label us as "plucky little Everton" since he left. "You want to get out of O*d T******d alive, that used to be our saying, you know." His comments about how he felt taking on the "bigger clubs" was like taking a knife to a gunfight. Yes, United is a bigger club and a bigger job, but there's ways of saying things.

    Finally - His recent comments, suggesting that he should be taking the credit for Everton's good start...

    "Everton fans see a direction that their team is going in but they need to remember I signed a lot of them"

    "But to be fair to him Roberto is doing a really good job keeping things going at Everton"

    "I told Roberto that I left such an organised team behind that they could play without a manager and still win"

    If continuing success is so easy, then perhaps Moyes could explain why he took over the Champions and currently finds himself in 8th place?


    In summary, he's thrown away the respect I and most Evertonians had for him. I always used to have a soft spot, in a way, for United. Perhaps it was an anti-Liverpool solidarity thing or something. Dunno, but whilst Moyes is there it's completely gone. I wish nothing but failure for him.

    Educate yourself but you chat shit.
    Good post. Moyes really became a smug twat the minute he took over the united job, always putting the blame elsewhere and trying to highlight all the other shit he's done. Like when he said something along the lines of being proud to make it to the quarter finals of the champions league.

    Of course he did really well for you in the first 5 years, but the second half of his reign? It was shit football with no hope of improvement and hardly a sniff of winning a trophy. He was just there, not going up but not down either. Continuing as a mid table side pretty much.
     
    Moyes got a better reception than any manager has ever got considering he was joining a local rival. Only when he started disrespecting the club for no reason at all did the Everton fans understandably turn on him.

    Local Rival? We were the PL champions. They scrapped for what 5th/6th?

    And he never disrespected them. Only when he started failing the Everton fans saw it as a nice opportunity for some sort of "Revenge".

    Same with Fellaini. He was a fan favorite here and they were sad to let him go but now that he's had a terrible season everyone of them have changed their tone spewing hate towards him - for all his service
     
    After last season, Everton fans think that they are our direct rivals. We need to show them their place. It sounds very arrogant but that's what is expected from Man Utd. Its been way too long since we have convincingly beaten a half-decent team. My prediction is 4-1!
     
    Local Rival? We were the PL champions. They scrapped for what 5th/6th?

    And he never disrespected them. Only when he started failing the Everton fans saw it as a nice opportunity for some sort of "Revenge".

    Same with Fellaini. He was a fan favorite here and they were sad to let him go but now that he's had a terrible season everyone of them have changed their tone spewing hate towards him - for all his service
    Do you not look at Leeds as a local rival ? Same applies here and i am sure even if Liverpool where in league 1 for 20 years they will still be a local rival. I don't know any Evertonians who have any ill feeling towards Fellaini.



    Look at the reception Moyes got in his last game. Why would Evertonians go off him for no reason like you are claiming ?
     
    I've changed my mind on the line-up after thinking about it in more detail.

    Final predicted line-up:

    ____________________________________________________________________

    1. De Gea

    2. Rafael 33. McNair 5. Rojo 3. Shaw

    17. Blind
    25. Valencia 7. Di Maria
    8. Mata

    20. Van Persie (c) 9. Falcao

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Bench:
    13. Lindegaard, 42. Blackett, 16. Carrick, 24. Fletcher, 44. Pereira, 11. Januzaj, 49. Wilson

    My thinking is that with Herrera gone, the engine in midfield is gone. I feel Van Gaal will consider this energy necessary to restrict Everton's possession. Valencia is good defensively, but also offers pace and will get forward. Di Maria will play the role he has been playing last few games. I do think Van Gaal will want the team to keep possession and in this way, Herrera is a big loss, but in truth, no-one else in the team brings both energy and ball retention so a lot of the responsibility for this will be on Blind and Mata.

    Both Valencia and di Maria can switch to the wings mid-game and this could prove useful if Everton choose to alter their tactics to a more counter-attacking game. Defence will be set up the same way as the last game, with Rojo being told to stay close to Lukaku, allowing McNair to concentrate on the space that Naismith (or whoever plays cam) can run into. Rafael will get forward a lot and in these situations, both Valencia and Blind can cover the space left behind.

    I feel that playing two such similar strikers in this game could be a problem tbh and I could see Falcao being taken off early for Januzaj if he doesn't perform well in this game and I think the extra pace Adnan would provide could cause Everton's defence a lot of problems. The potential loss of both Coleman and McCarthy should make our job easier, but also means that a potential change in tactics by Everton is far more likely, in which case, we will have to be ready for that.

    With regards to subs, Januzaj will definitely come on, whether it's for Falcao or for Mata is another story. I think it will depend on both players' performances tbh. I don't know if Pereira can offer the energy and defensive responsibilities necessary to play Valencia's role, but I could see him replacing di Maria if Angel needs to be taken off for any reason. I can see Carrick potentially going into a number of roles. He could be swapped with Blind, but I don't see that happening; he could replace McNair if he's struggling in defence; he could replace Mata in our midfield if we wish to revert to a counter-attacking approach (if this happens I do think Pereira could be introduced for one of the strikers or Valencia).


    How the game could unfold:

    I see Unitd attacking quickly with di Maria and Rafael exploiting the flanks. I think we'll score within the first 10 minutes. Everton will respond and dominate the possession for the next 20 minutes before tiring (they could potentially score, but I don't think they will). The game slows and we start to see a lot of possession, but do not attack, choosing instead to regain our stamina. At this stage I see Everton sitting back, waiting to exploit any mistake we might make. In the last 5 minutes I see us attacking again. At that stage either team could score, but I see us going in 1-0 up at half time.

    I think we'll start the second half slowly and that a misplaced pass around the centre circle will allow Everton to burst forward. I think we'll deal with it and quickly counter attack with Valencia pushing forward quickly before rolling the ball into Rafael as he surges forward up the wing, before sliding the ball into the path of either van Persie or Falcao who should score. At this stage Everton need to adopt a different approach. I think they'll make a substitution around this time (55th minute?) and we'll defend for a while. I can see us conceding during that time, possibly from a corner.

    I think Adnan will replace Falcao between the 60th and 65th minute. I see Everton continuing to control the game and to attack (though slower than before). I think Carrick will replace Mata around the 70th minute (this is now a defensive 3 in midfield with Valencia, Carrick and Blind forming a defensive triangle with di Maria pushing ahead into a free role between midfield and attack. After 5 minutes of Everton pressure and another 5 minutes of slow build-up from them, I think we'll bring on Pereira for Valencia, changing the formation again, Carrick and Blind remaining in dm, Pereira playing just ahead of them in a linking role and di Maria and Januzaj playing in the space behind van Persie who will stay up top.

    With about 5 minutes of normal time to go, I think we'll intercept one of Everton's passes and counter attack quickly with either Carrick or Blind (whoever intercepted the pass) switching the ball to either di Maria or Januzaj who will burst forward and slide the ball into whichever one didn't receive the ball originally and they will score a comfortable goal past Howard. I don't see Everton offering much after this. I think they'll lose the ball relatively quickly and that we'll control the game until the final whistle goes.

    Prediction:

    Man Utd 3-1 Everton (van Persie X2, Jagielka, Januzaj)
     
    Last edited:
    No McCarthy means i have already admitted defeat. I fear bad,bad things if we play the energy less, slow duo of Barry and Gibson
     
    Thirdly - his attempts to label us as "plucky little Everton" since he left. "You want to get out of O*d T******d alive, that used to be our saying, you know." His comments about how he felt taking on the "bigger clubs" was like taking a knife to a gunfight. Yes, United is a bigger club and a bigger job, but there's ways of saying things.

    Actually, your record against the big clubs during Moyes' reign and comments he made during his time here (v Newcastle, v Man City) suggests to me that he wasn't revising history to label you as "plucky little Everton", but that he actually did say "you want to get out of Old Trafford alive". His "first of all don't lose" approach to football can have a psychological impact on players. If he's spending all week warning his players on how not to lose, I'm not sure how much belief they'll have that they can win when it comes to game time.

    Slight revisionism on my part, because I thought he would be a flop, but I think, in hindsight, Martinez was the right kind of manager at the right time for you. You already had the solid foundation from Moyes, but Martinez has got them believing that they belong at the higher end of the table.

    That's another reason why, despite having a worse start than Moyes, my faith in LvG has not wavered. He has the utmost confidence in himself and will instill that into the players. It's a completely different mindset to Moyes. LvG focuses on our team and believes everything will come together once we get ourselves up to speed with his system. Moyes would focus on the opposition and how to nullify their threats.
     
    I've changed my mind on the line-up after thinking about it in more detail.

    Final predicted line-up:

    ____________________________________________________________________

    1. De Gea

    2. Rafael 33. McNair 5. Rojo 3. Shaw

    17. Blind
    25. Valencia 7. Di Maria
    8. Mata

    20. Van Persie (c) 9. Falcao

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Bench:
    13. Lindegaard, 42. Blackett, 16. Carrick, 24. Fletcher, 44. Pereira, 11. Januzaj, 49. Wilson

    My thinking is that with Herrera gone, the engine in midfield is gone. I feel Van Gaal will consider this energy necessary to restrict Everton's possession. Valencia is good defensively, but also offers pace and will get forward. Di Maria will play the role he has been playing last few games. I do think Van Gaal will want the team to keep possession and in this way, Herrera is a big loss, but in truth, no-one else in the team brings both energy and ball retention so a lot of the responsibility for this will be on Blind and Mata.

    Both Valencia and di Maria can switch to the wings mid-game and this could prove useful if Everton choose to alter their tactics to a more counter-attacking game. Defence will be set up the same way as the last game, with Rojo being told to stay close to Lukaku, allowing McNair to concentrate on the space that Naismith (or whoever plays cam) can run into. Rafael will get forward a lot and in these situations, both Valencia and Blind can cover the space left behind.

    I feel that playing two such similar strikers in this game could be a problem tbh and I could see Falcao being taken off early for Januzaj if he doesn't perform well in this game and I think the extra pace Adnan would provide could cause Everton's defence a lot of problems. The potential loss of both Coleman and McCarthy should make our job easier, but also means that a potential change in tactics by Everton is far more likely, in which case, we will have to be ready for that.

    With regards to subs, Januzaj will definitely come on, whether it's for Falcao or for Mata is another story. I think it will depend on both players' performances tbh. I don't know if Pereira can offer the energy and defensive responsibilities necessary to play Valencia's role, but I could see him replacing di Maria if Angel needs to be taken off for any reason. I can see Carrick potentially going into a number of roles. He could be swapped with Blind, but I don't see that happening; he could replace McNair if he's struggling in defence; he could replace Mata in our midfield if we wish to revert to a counter-attacking approach (if this happens I do think Pereira could be introduced for one of the strikers or Valencia).


    How the game could unfold:

    I see Unitd attacking quickly with di Maria and Rafael exploiting the flanks. I think we'll score within the first 10 minutes. Everton will respond and dominate the possession for the next 20 minutes before tiring (they could potentially score, but I don't think they will). The game slows and we start to see a lot of possession, but do not attack, choosing instead to regain our stamina. At this stage I see Everton sitting back, waiting to exploit any mistake we might make. In the last 5 minutes I see us attacking again. At that stage either team could score, but I see us going in 1-0 up at half time.

    I think we'll start the second half slowly and that a misplaced pass around the centre circle will allow Everton to burst forward. I think we'll deal with it and quickly counter attack with Valencia pushing forward quickly before rolling the ball into Rafael as he surges forward up the wing, before sliding the ball into the path of either van Persie or Falcao who should score. At this stage Everton need to adopt a different approach. I think they'll make a substitution around this time (55th minute?) and we'll defend for a while. I can see us conceding during that time, possibly from a corner.

    I think Adnan will replace Falcao between the 60th and 65th minute. I see Everton continuing to control the game and to attack (though slower than before). I think Carrick will replace Mata around the 70th minute (this is now a defensive 3 in midfield with Valencia, Carrick and Blind forming a defensive triangle with di Maria pushing ahead into a free role between midfield and attack. After 5 minutes of Everton pressure and another 5 minutes of slow build-up from them, I think we'll bring on Pereira for Valencia, changing the formation again, Carrick and Blind remaining in dm, Pereira playing just ahead of them in a linking role and di Maria and Januzaj playing in the space behind van Persie who will stay up top.

    With about 5 minutes of normal time to go, I think we'll intercept one of Everton's passes and counter attack quickly with either Carrick or Blind (whoever intercepted the pass) switching the ball to either di Maria or Januzaj who will burst forward and slide the ball into whichever one didn't receive the ball originally and they will score a comfortable goal past Howard. I don't see Everton offering much after this. I think they'll lose the ball relatively quickly and that we'll control the game until the final whistle goes.

    Prediction:

    Man Utd 3-1 Everton (van Persie X2, Januzaj)
    You forgot to mention Everton's goalscorer! And Im confident Falcao will score.
     
    You forgot to mention Everton's goalscorer! And Im confident Falcao will score.

    It's difficult to say, because I think it will come from a corner. I hope Falcao scores, but I'm not overly confident of it tbh. I'll say Jagielka to score from a corner for Everton.
     
    Meh, at the moment I consider anyone who's fighting for top 4 a rival.
     
    @Globule You may be correct but it is still annoying to hear either way.

    Oh, I know. Believe me, that wasn't meant to be any kind of defence of him. We only had him for 9 months and we had our fair share of annoying soundbites that made us sound like Ever...er...a small club. ;)
     
    Oh, I know. Believe me, that wasn't meant to be any kind of defence of him. We only had him for 9 months and we had our fair share of annoying soundbites that made us sound like Ever...er...a small club. ;)
    "We aspire to be like Man City"
     
    I've changed my mind on the line-up after thinking about it in more detail.

    Final predicted line-up:

    ____________________________________________________________________

    1. De Gea

    2. Rafael 33. McNair 5. Rojo 3. Shaw

    17. Blind
    25. Valencia 7. Di Maria
    8. Mata

    20. Van Persie (c) 9. Falcao

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Bench:
    13. Lindegaard, 42. Blackett, 16. Carrick, 24. Fletcher, 44. Pereira, 11. Januzaj, 49. Wilson

    My thinking is that with Herrera gone, the engine in midfield is gone. I feel Van Gaal will consider this energy necessary to restrict Everton's possession. Valencia is good defensively, but also offers pace and will get forward. Di Maria will play the role he has been playing last few games. I do think Van Gaal will want the team to keep possession and in this way, Herrera is a big loss, but in truth, no-one else in the team brings both energy and ball retention so a lot of the responsibility for this will be on Blind and Mata.

    Both Valencia and di Maria can switch to the wings mid-game and this could prove useful if Everton choose to alter their tactics to a more counter-attacking game. Defence will be set up the same way as the last game, with Rojo being told to stay close to Lukaku, allowing McNair to concentrate on the space that Naismith (or whoever plays cam) can run into. Rafael will get forward a lot and in these situations, both Valencia and Blind can cover the space left behind.

    I feel that playing two such similar strikers in this game could be a problem tbh and I could see Falcao being taken off early for Januzaj if he doesn't perform well in this game and I think the extra pace Adnan would provide could cause Everton's defence a lot of problems. The potential loss of both Coleman and McCarthy should make our job easier, but also means that a potential change in tactics by Everton is far more likely, in which case, we will have to be ready for that.

    With regards to subs, Januzaj will definitely come on, whether it's for Falcao or for Mata is another story. I think it will depend on both players' performances tbh. I don't know if Pereira can offer the energy and defensive responsibilities necessary to play Valencia's role, but I could see him replacing di Maria if Angel needs to be taken off for any reason. I can see Carrick potentially going into a number of roles. He could be swapped with Blind, but I don't see that happening; he could replace McNair if he's struggling in defence; he could replace Mata in our midfield if we wish to revert to a counter-attacking approach (if this happens I do think Pereira could be introduced for one of the strikers or Valencia).


    How the game could unfold:

    I see Unitd attacking quickly with di Maria and Rafael exploiting the flanks. I think we'll score within the first 10 minutes. Everton will respond and dominate the possession for the next 20 minutes before tiring (they could potentially score, but I don't think they will). The game slows and we start to see a lot of possession, but do not attack, choosing instead to regain our stamina. At this stage I see Everton sitting back, waiting to exploit any mistake we might make. In the last 5 minutes I see us attacking again. At that stage either team could score, but I see us going in 1-0 up at half time.

    I think we'll start the second half slowly and that a misplaced pass around the centre circle will allow Everton to burst forward. I think we'll deal with it and quickly counter attack with Valencia pushing forward quickly before rolling the ball into Rafael as he surges forward up the wing, before sliding the ball into the path of either van Persie or Falcao who should score. At this stage Everton need to adopt a different approach. I think they'll make a substitution around this time (55th minute?) and we'll defend for a while. I can see us conceding during that time, possibly from a corner.

    I think Adnan will replace Falcao between the 60th and 65th minute. I see Everton continuing to control the game and to attack (though slower than before). I think Carrick will replace Mata around the 70th minute (this is now a defensive 3 in midfield with Valencia, Carrick and Blind forming a defensive triangle with di Maria pushing ahead into a free role between midfield and attack. After 5 minutes of Everton pressure and another 5 minutes of slow build-up from them, I think we'll bring on Pereira for Valencia, changing the formation again, Carrick and Blind remaining in dm, Pereira playing just ahead of them in a linking role and di Maria and Januzaj playing in the space behind van Persie who will stay up top.

    With about 5 minutes of normal time to go, I think we'll intercept one of Everton's passes and counter attack quickly with either Carrick or Blind (whoever intercepted the pass) switching the ball to either di Maria or Januzaj who will burst forward and slide the ball into whichever one didn't receive the ball originally and they will score a comfortable goal past Howard. I don't see Everton offering much after this. I think they'll lose the ball relatively quickly and that we'll control the game until the final whistle goes.

    Prediction:

    Man Utd 3-1 Everton (van Persie X2, Jagielka, Januzaj)

    What about the streaker with the massive tits in the 53rd minute?
     
    This should be our statement game. We've been laughed at for losing to lesser teams, and dismissed when we've beat them as well (QPR). Everton did the double on us last season, its time to beat the shit out of them and truly kickstart our title campaign.
    Im going for 3-1, we still have some doubts at the back but im sure Rojo and McNair will buoyed by last weekend's performance against the Hammers. A win will get us into the top four, and it will certainly help us to leapfrog Arsenal in the standings as the best result I see them getting at Chelsea is a draw. Psychologically it will be great to have both Liverpool and Arsenal below us in the standings before the international break. Come on!
     
    I've changed my mind on the line-up after thinking about it in more detail.

    Final predicted line-up:

    ____________________________________________________________________

    1. De Gea

    2. Rafael 33. McNair 5. Rojo 3. Shaw

    17. Blind
    25. Valencia 7. Di Maria
    8. Mata

    20. Van Persie (c) 9. Falcao

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Bench:
    13. Lindegaard, 42. Blackett, 16. Carrick, 24. Fletcher, 44. Pereira, 11. Januzaj, 49. Wilson

    My thinking is that with Herrera gone, the engine in midfield is gone. I feel Van Gaal will consider this energy necessary to restrict Everton's possession. Valencia is good defensively, but also offers pace and will get forward. Di Maria will play the role he has been playing last few games. I do think Van Gaal will want the team to keep possession and in this way, Herrera is a big loss, but in truth, no-one else in the team brings both energy and ball retention so a lot of the responsibility for this will be on Blind and Mata.

    Both Valencia and di Maria can switch to the wings mid-game and this could prove useful if Everton choose to alter their tactics to a more counter-attacking game. Defence will be set up the same way as the last game, with Rojo being told to stay close to Lukaku, allowing McNair to concentrate on the space that Naismith (or whoever plays cam) can run into. Rafael will get forward a lot and in these situations, both Valencia and Blind can cover the space left behind.

    I feel that playing two such similar strikers in this game could be a problem tbh and I could see Falcao being taken off early for Januzaj if he doesn't perform well in this game and I think the extra pace Adnan would provide could cause Everton's defence a lot of problems. The potential loss of both Coleman and McCarthy should make our job easier, but also means that a potential change in tactics by Everton is far more likely, in which case, we will have to be ready for that.

    With regards to subs, Januzaj will definitely come on, whether it's for Falcao or for Mata is another story. I think it will depend on both players' performances tbh. I don't know if Pereira can offer the energy and defensive responsibilities necessary to play Valencia's role, but I could see him replacing di Maria if Angel needs to be taken off for any reason. I can see Carrick potentially going into a number of roles. He could be swapped with Blind, but I don't see that happening; he could replace McNair if he's struggling in defence; he could replace Mata in our midfield if we wish to revert to a counter-attacking approach (if this happens I do think Pereira could be introduced for one of the strikers or Valencia).


    How the game could unfold:

    I see Unitd attacking quickly with di Maria and Rafael exploiting the flanks. I think we'll score within the first 10 minutes. Everton will respond and dominate the possession for the next 20 minutes before tiring (they could potentially score, but I don't think they will). The game slows and we start to see a lot of possession, but do not attack, choosing instead to regain our stamina. At this stage I see Everton sitting back, waiting to exploit any mistake we might make. In the last 5 minutes I see us attacking again. At that stage either team could score, but I see us going in 1-0 up at half time.

    I think we'll start the second half slowly and that a misplaced pass around the centre circle will allow Everton to burst forward. I think we'll deal with it and quickly counter attack with Valencia pushing forward quickly before rolling the ball into Rafael as he surges forward up the wing, before sliding the ball into the path of either van Persie or Falcao who should score. At this stage Everton need to adopt a different approach. I think they'll make a substitution around this time (55th minute?) and we'll defend for a while. I can see us conceding during that time, possibly from a corner.

    I think Adnan will replace Falcao between the 60th and 65th minute. I see Everton continuing to control the game and to attack (though slower than before). I think Carrick will replace Mata around the 70th minute (this is now a defensive 3 in midfield with Valencia, Carrick and Blind forming a defensive triangle with di Maria pushing ahead into a free role between midfield and attack. After 5 minutes of Everton pressure and another 5 minutes of slow build-up from them, I think we'll bring on Pereira for Valencia, changing the formation again, Carrick and Blind remaining in dm, Pereira playing just ahead of them in a linking role and di Maria and Januzaj playing in the space behind van Persie who will stay up top.

    With about 5 minutes of normal time to go, I think we'll intercept one of Everton's passes and counter attack quickly with either Carrick or Blind (whoever intercepted the pass) switching the ball to either di Maria or Januzaj who will burst forward and slide the ball into whichever one didn't receive the ball originally and they will score a comfortable goal past Howard. I don't see Everton offering much after this. I think they'll lose the ball relatively quickly and that we'll control the game until the final whistle goes.

    Prediction:

    Man Utd 3-1 Everton (van Persie X2, Jagielka, Januzaj)

    Would worry me that line up, no proper leader in there, could see it been very quiet among all the players, especially if starts going wrong.

    Reckon we need Fletcher, or Carrick out there to just put some experienced old head/leader out there.
     
    Really can't see how we can play the diamond without Herrera. Valencia can't come in and play it in the same way at all in that system and there's a risk that if he comes in and pushes wider that although he might work hard he'll leave us exposed centrally.

    Only think I could see is Fletch coming in at the base and Blind being pushed wider for us to keep the diamond. Personally think that its got to be a 451 though. But think LVG won't drop one of RVP/Falcao.
     
    Really can't see how we can play the diamond without Herrera. Valencia can't come in and play it in the same way at all in that system and there's a risk that if he comes in and pushes wider that although he might work hard he'll leave us exposed centrally.

    Only think I could see is Fletch coming in at the base and Blind being pushed wider for us to keep the diamond. Personally think that its got to be a 451 though. But think LVG won't drop one of RVP/Falcao.
    There might be an outside chance that LVG plays Pereira in Herrera place.It's a big gamble but then it's not any different than playing Mcnair.
     
    There might be an outside chance that LVG plays Pereira in Herrera place.It's a big gamble but then it's not any different than playing Mcnair.

    Maybe but worry about the defensive strength of the middle which is already compromised with the injuries we have in defence.
     
    We're in trouble now that Wayne's out. People can mock him all they want, he is extremely important for us which i think will show tomorrow.
    Agreed, but Herrera will be a bigger loss, which will disguise the impact of missing Rooney imo.
     
    Maybe but worry about the defensive strength of the middle which is already compromised with the injuries we have in defence.
    Agree although the only saving grace for us is that Everton defence has been truly awful this season.
     
    It's good to hear we could be in 4th place after this week's set of games.

    It's a decent time to play Everton, very much out of form and have played two energy sapping games in the last week. Herrera is an important player for us especially without Carrick.

    Also lots of people have been shouting for Rooney to be dropped recently, I think those people may see what we miss without him in the side. Mata is a very good player and seems to be a complete gent, but he's not as good as Rooney.
     
    Only when he started failing the Everton fans saw it as a nice opportunity for some sort of "Revenge".

    Its like a person who broke up with a long term partner and both gone for better ones. It worked well when they were together and it ended well.
    Rather than that, both got into little skirmishes and start nitpicking about the previous relationship and got in to loggerheads with each other. As one got broke up with the new partner, the other reveled in it. Wait for the other one too to break up, before both realizing their mistakes of scorning each other, instead of respect for each other.
    Revenge comes to mind when others fail. Nostalgia comes to mind when you fail.
     
    Do you not look at Leeds as a local rival ? Same applies here and i am sure even if Liverpool where in league 1 for 20 years they will still be a local rival. I don't know any Evertonians who have any ill feeling towards Fellaini.



    Look at the reception Moyes got in his last game. Why would Evertonians go off him for no reason like you are claiming ?

    :(

    I really liked david moyes in his Everton days. People look at what Martinez did last season and it was very impressive but moyes laid all the ground work, I look at a side that were up and usually down in the decade or so before he took charge and he really put his stamp on them

    Worst thing he ever did was take over at utd.
     
    :(

    I really liked david moyes in his Everton days. People look at what Martinez did last season and it was very impressive but moyes laid all the ground work, I look at a side that were up and usually down in the decade or so before he took charge and he really put his stamp on them

    Worst thing he ever did was take over at utd.

    Poor guy got it totally wrong at Manchester United.
     
    :(

    I really liked david moyes in his Everton days. People look at what Martinez did last season and it was very impressive but moyes laid all the ground work, I look at a side that were up and usually down in the decade or so before he took charge and he really put his stamp on them

    Worst thing he ever did was take over at utd.
    It really is a shame how things worked out for him. I am still adamant that he is as good as any manager in European football at building a squad on a budget, sadly though his biggest strength was not even need at United.
     
    Must win tomorrow, with Arsenal bound for defeat by Chelsea we would overtake them and Liverpool with a win and finish in the Top 4 going into the International Break - HUGE game, we're bound to feck it up :(
     
    Let's give them a good old fashioned beaten wipe the smirk off Mike Parry's face!
     
    Bit concerned about Baines and whoever's in front of him doubling up on Rafael, especially if we continue with the diamond. I'd go for Valencia over Fletcher.
     
    Posted this on another forum in response to a Manc lad I know asking why the worm had turned as far as our opinion of Moyes is concerned. Thought it might be worth posting it here in the hope of an Amen or two.

    I loved Moyes. Loved him. For younger fans it's easy to forget just how bad the pre-Moyes era was. From about 1993 to the day that Moyes took over (with the exception of a couple of Joe Royle years in the middle of it), being an Evertonian was a largely crap experience. We had been winning the league less than a decade beforehand and yet we were consistently in the relegation mix every season. Bad management at board level and a succession of poor managers and laughably bad players for a decade made being an Everton fan a chuffing chore.

    Then one day, Moyes walks into a press conference, throws in an accidental soundbite, wins a few games and things suddenly seem optimistic. The following season he finishes 7th, Rooney emerges and we all see it's the real deal. A relegation fight the following season and Rooney leaving after it brought us all back to earth but on the back of that he manages to finish 4th the following season. There's still a few bumps along the way after that, but essentially we stabilised as a club from then on. Moyes' signings were generally good, we had a few cup runs, some big results (at home) against the bigger clubs and we were a consistent top 8 side. He helped me feel proud about being an Everton fan again because, as previously mentioned, my formative years were a chuffing nightmare as far as the blues were concerned. He did all this with an air of dignity and integrity. Phil McNulty described David Moyes as the only Everton manager who had never lied to him. When he got the United job I was gutted. I was slightly surprised but devastated all the same. I didn't, however, feel any ill will because he was leaving. He'd have been mad to turn that job down I understood why he was leaving. On the appointment of Martinez, I thought he was the best candidate of a bunch of very average names. I thought the quality of the football might improve, but results might suffer in at least the short term. Anyway, I digress...

    What has happened since he took the United job has been little short of a disgrace. He has a new club to manage now, of course, but there is no need to do that whilst disrespecting your old one.

    Firstly - he maintains he found out about the United job 4 weeks before the end of the season. I believe SAF has already debunked this in his new book? I don't see the need to continue with the lie. I'd even understand if he'd admit he was tapped up well beforehand, I would still understand him taking the job.

    Secondly - the Baines/Fellaini bids. Yes, the initial bid was a complete pisstake. Nobody knows whether Moyes had anything to do with the valuation of the bid since the trendy thing appears to be to put the blame at Woodward's door, but suffice to say that if Moyes enjoys the same level of control at United as he did at Everton, he most certainly had some input into it. His subsequent comments about the failed Herrera bid and how he didn't feel the player was worth the buyout clause would seem to support the theory that he has some involvement here. It's not the bid itself which most peed me off though.

    Asked if he had sympathy for Martinez, Moyes said: ‘I definitely do. But I also know that if I was the Everton manager and Sir Alex had come asking for Baines and Fellaini, I would have found it very difficult to keep them. I always felt the right thing to do was what was right for the players. All we can do is our job here. Roberto is in a new job and I am sure he will get to understand how Everton work. I know exactly how Everton work. I signed every player at Everton."

    The hypocrisy of the statement is just unbelievable. Moyes' comments when Man City were chasing Lescott would show this to be utter lies. He was outraged at Man City's pursuit of Lescott and had a public war of words with Mark Hughes about how he was the one who would decide whether Lescott went or not. On the flip side, even if this was bravado if Moyes was being honest and he would indeed have bent over if SAF had come calling for Baines and Fellaini then I'd be annoyed anyway.

    Thirdly - his attempts to label us as "plucky little Everton" since he left. "You want to get out of O*d T******d alive, that used to be our saying, you know." His comments about how he felt taking on the "bigger clubs" was like taking a knife to a gunfight. Yes, United is a bigger club and a bigger job, but there's ways of saying things.

    Finally - His recent comments, suggesting that he should be taking the credit for Everton's good start...

    "Everton fans see a direction that their team is going in but they need to remember I signed a lot of them"

    "But to be fair to him Roberto is doing a really good job keeping things going at Everton"

    "I told Roberto that I left such an organised team behind that they could play without a manager and still win"

    If continuing success is so easy, then perhaps Moyes could explain why he took over the Champions and currently finds himself in 8th place?


    In summary, he's thrown away the respect I and most Evertonians had for him. I always used to have a soft spot, in a way, for United. Perhaps it was an anti-Liverpool solidarity thing or something. Dunno, but whilst Moyes is there it's completely gone. I wish nothing but failure for him.

    Educate yourself but you chat shit.

    Good post. Moyes comments about Everton, once he was at United, were utterly disgraceful. It was actually those statements that raised early warning signs for me. Having a United manager talking like that was embarassing.

    As for tomorrow, I'm going 2-2. Without Herrera I think we're going to massively struggle. We'll undoubtedly concede, and I worry about Eto/Lukaku against Mcnair. I hear Coleman and Mccarthy might be out though?
     
    I understand that we can get to fourth place if we win tomorrow and Arsenal lose. But we should be hoping for an Arsenal win because at the rate that Chelsea is winning they will get more confident and much harder to beat. They need to start losing games so we can catch up. Baby steps. Also I don't care who we play instead of Herrara, anyone but Tony!
     
    Good post. Moyes comments about Everton, once he was at United, were utterly disgraceful. It was actually those statements that raised early warning signs for me. Having a United manager talking like that was embarassing.

    As for tomorrow, I'm going 2-2. Without Herrera I think we're going to massively struggle. We'll undoubtedly concede, and I worry about Eto/Lukaku against Mcnair. I hear Coleman and Mccarthy might be out though?
    McCarthy is out for sure because he hasn't been included in the Ireland squad. Yous will have to much quality for us tomorrow so unless we ride our luck it should really be a comfortable win. We have a excellent first 11 but once we start losing a couple of players to injuries the teams quality drops dramatically. McCarthy energy would of been key as well so we need Besic step it up in his absence but it is to much to ask of a new player in a tough fixture like this. 3-1 to you lot i am saying.

    Also another point on Moyes is that Martinez was really respectful of Moyes for the foundation and squad he left him but Moyes even started downplaying Martinez achievements last season to massage his own . Sad really that he burned a lot of bridges at Everton because he did do a lot for the club.
     
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Post-match discussion

Man of the Match

David de Gea image David de Gea 93% of 975 votes

Runners-up

Player Ratings

6.7 Total Average Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 637 ratings.

Score Predictions

610,92,128
  • Man Utd win
  • Everton win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 18% Man Utd 3:1 Everton
  • 18% Man Utd 2:1 Everton
  • 13% Man Utd 3:2 Everton
  • 9% Man Utd 2:2 Everton
  • 7% Man Utd 2:0 Everton
  • 4% Man Utd 1:2 Everton
  • 4% Man Utd 3:0 Everton
  • 4% Man Utd 1:1 Everton
  • 4% Man Utd 4:2 Everton
  • 3% Man Utd 1:0 Everton
  • 2% Man Utd 5:0 Everton
  • 2% Man Utd 2:3 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 1:3 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 3:3 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 0:2 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 4:0 Everton
  • 1% Man Utd 4:3 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 0:1 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 5:1 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 1:4 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 5:4 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 2:4 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 0:3 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 5:2 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 5:3 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 5:5 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 4:4 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 3:5 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 2:5 Everton
  • 0% Man Utd 0:4 Everton
Compiled from 830 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Everton
Possession
49% 51%
Shots
15 10
Shots on Target
4 6
Corners
11 6
Fouls
18 11

Referee

Kevin Friend