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2020-21 Performances


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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
57
Goals
21
Assists
11
Yellow cards
4

united_99

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In terms of stats it is also important to separate the value of those stats. Like is he scoring the 3rd/4th goal in a 4-0 win or actually delivering crucial goals and assists. And this season despite some poor performances most of his goals and assists have won us important points / given us wins.
 

Sylar

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Good finish for the goal. Think the second chance to make it 3-4 (on full time) was actually easier but he put that wide.
 

FrankDrebin

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He will always be a somewhat indifferent player who will go through purple patches of excellence followed by games such as last night, or worse like the showing away to Arsenal.

I do think he's burnt out though. Whether you see that as a excuse on my part is up to you but he's played 55 games this season and I just find that ridiculous.
He's had little rotation.
 

flappyjay

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You get stick for your views on Rashford cos they're idiotic and clownish.

Greenwood is a special talent but he isn't better than Rashford in every respect. Yet.

It's hilarious that without penalties he's our most productive players and yet seem to be getting the most stick too.
One of the most disrespected players on this forum. He has been on and off this season but unlike when he was younger he still contributes with goals and assits when he is having a tough time. That's a great quality to have in a player. Two 20+ goal seasons a row. When was the last time we had a player do that? If he was at any other team we would be salivating at a chance of signing him.
 

Lentwood

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You get stick for your views on Rashford cos they're idiotic and clownish.

Greenwood is a special talent but he isn't better than Rashford in every respect. Yet.

It's hilarious that without penalties he's our most productive players and yet seem to be getting the most stick too.
Yet scrolling through this thread you can see that my views are hardly a minority.

Rashford is a good footballer as I have said many times, but no more than that. I’m not calling him crap, I’m not calling for him to be sold. Likelihood is he will be an important player for many years.

However, he’s not what I consider to be a United-standard starter. You can’t call that view “idiotic” its my personal opinion. I have watched 10,000+ football matches in my lifetime. I have played well over 1,000 games, if you include all competitive 5-a-side, 6-a-side, 7-a-side and 11-a-side games. I think I’m a fair judge. I don’t get everything right but I do call most things right most of the time.

If you think differently then fine. That’s your opinion. However, this abuse of posters daring to criticise Rashford needs to stop.
 

Lentwood

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You should check the previous arguments.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-and-martial-are-a-problem.458752/page-37#post-26833995



This was the expectations on him, 20 PL goals + 10 assists. Just to give context to the expectations.


Among U23 players, only Haaland and Mbappe have scored more goals + assists from top 5 leagues.

From open play he is our most productive player but somehow he doesn't have good stats.

We should stop messing with his position and play him as LW, if not that then should be on the bench with Greenwood as RW.
Please don’t misrepresent my posts by taking one paragraph from maybe 10 posts and making it sound like I am saying something I am not.

I never claimed a player has to score 20 goals and get 10 assists to be considered world class.

Your argument was that my criticism of Rashford is OTT because his numbers are great and my response over several posts was his numbers aren’t SO great that they excuse the bad stuff.

My point being, if your all-round performances are hit and miss but your numbers are great then fine (I would put Fernandes and Salah in this category). However, I don’t believe what I consider to be fair/middling numbers should excuse all of the bad stuff.

Let’s just agree to disagree. We’re basically arguing over whether Rashford is “good” or “great”, so it’s pointless.
 

FrankDrebin

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I think it would help Rashford's game, and mentality, if he was used in rotation next year with a Mason or hopefully Sancho.

Being one of the main players at United is tough, really tough. Now I'm not doubting his mentality or professionalism but the shirt weighs heavy on him at times.

He wont be the first United player to go through this either.
Giggs, Scholes, Cole (as examples that spring to mind) have all had periods in their times as United players where their form was erratic and pressure was alittle too great.

Also ,outside of Bruno, Marcus is still our most important offensive player. A club the size of United shouldn't be so, so heavily reliant on a 23 year old who still clearly has much to learn in the game.

So, I maintain, Rashford rotating next year would be excellent for us and Marcus himself.
The spark will return in his game, I'm sure of it.
 

roonster09

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Please don’t misrepresent my posts by taking one paragraph from maybe 10 posts and making it sound like I am saying something I am not.

I never claimed a player has to score 20 goals and get 10 assists to be considered world class.

Your argument was that my criticism of Rashford is OTT because his numbers are great and my response over several posts was his numbers aren’t SO great that they excuse the bad stuff.

My point being, if your all-round performances are hit and miss but your numbers are great then fine (I would put Fernandes and Salah in this category). However, I don’t believe what I consider to be fair/middling numbers should excuse all of the bad stuff.

Let’s just agree to disagree. We’re basically arguing over whether Rashford is “good” or “great”, so it’s pointless.
Rashford numbers are better than Bruno's from open play.
 

The Oracle

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I do think there is a bigger issue with having a right-footed player (Rashford) on the left wing, and having a left-footed player (Greenwood) on the right-wing; in that is nullifies our crossing ability.

Sure Luke Shaw can provide over-lapping runs to address this on the left, but AWB can't do the same on the right.
 

Banana Republic

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Are people getting carried away with the scoring stats?
If we're talking about the League, Rashford has scored 11 goals.
The rest were in European competitions and 1 in each of the 2 cups.

2 league goals at the start of the season, then a gap of more than a month and a half (7 weeks) before scoring again in December, where he had his league purple patch for the season and scored 5.

In the four and a half months since 1st Jan this year, Rashford has scored just 4 goals in 21 league games.
Of those 4, he scored 2 back in February (one was in the 9-0 against Soton, when nearly everyone got a goal).
Before his goal against the scousers, he last scored in the league on 4th April.
Last nights goal followed a gap of another 5 games without getting on the score sheet.

Most of the goals have been well taken, or belters, but are we getting carried away about the number of league goals he's scored?

A few days ago there was a story in the papers about what a poor season Sadio Mane has had.
In addition to poor performances, he's only scored 9 goals (in fewer appearances than Marcus) and that was considered a poor contribution.
When that was written, Marcus had only scored one more with 4 more appearances.
Their respective minutes per goal etc, were identical (obviously changed now after last nights goal).

Mind you, City's top scorer, Gundogan, has only scored one more league goal so far this season- He's on 12
 
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acnumber9

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Are people getting carried away with the scoring stats?
If we're talking about the League, Rashford has scored 11 goals.
The rest were in European competitions and 1 in each of the 2 cups.

2 league goals at the start of the season, then a gap of more than a month and a half (7 weeks) before scoring again in December, where he had his league purple patch for the season and scored 5.

In the four and a half months since 1st Jan this year, Rashford has scored 4 goals in 21 league games.
Of those 4, he scored 2 back in February (one was in the 9-0 against Soton, when nearly everyone got a goal).
Before his goal against the scousers, he last scored in the league on 4th April.
Last nights goal followed a gap of another 5 games without getting on the team sheet.

Most of the goals have been well taken, or belters, but are we getting carried away about the number of league goals he's scored?

A few days ago there was a story in the papers about what a poor season Sadio Mane has had.
In addition to poor performances, he's only scored 9 goals (in fewer appearances than Marcus) and that was considered a poor contribution.
When that was written, Marcus had only scored one more with 4 more appearances.
Their respective minutes per goal etc, were identical (obviously changed now after last nights goal).

Mind you, City's top scorer, Gundogan, has only scored one more league goal so far this season- He's on 12
Well goals in Europe are kind of important. Had somebody else scored as many as he did maybe we wouldn’t have been dumped out of the Champions League at the first stage. Rashford also creates twice as many goals as Mane. So there’s that too.

He’s outscored him since the start of last season. He’s created more goals than him in that time. Despite this our fans act as if he’s the biggest problem in our team. Mane was given God status.
 

Ali Dia

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Are people getting carried away with the scoring stats?
If we're talking about the League, Rashford has scored 11 goals.
The rest were in European competitions and 1 in each of the 2 cups.

2 league goals at the start of the season, then a gap of more than a month and a half (7 weeks) before scoring again in December, where he had his league purple patch for the season and scored 5.

In the four and a half months since 1st Jan this year, Rashford has scored 4 goals in 21 league games.
Of those 4, he scored 2 back in February (one was in the 9-0 against Soton, when nearly everyone got a goal).
Before his goal against the scousers, he last scored in the league on 4th April.
Last nights goal followed a gap of another 5 games without getting on the team sheet.

Most of the goals have been well taken, or belters, but are we getting carried away about the number of league goals he's scored?

A few days ago there was a story in the papers about what a poor season Sadio Mane has had.
In addition to poor performances, he's only scored 9 goals (in fewer appearances than Marcus) and that was considered a poor contribution.
When that was written, Marcus had only scored one more with 4 more appearances.
Their respective minutes per goal etc, were identical (obviously changed now after last nights goal).

Mind you, City's top scorer, Gundogan, has only scored one more league goal so far this season- He's on 12
I agree. It’s not enough to win a league and it’s not enough to be put on a pedestal in the meantime either. He’s not doing enough to have no defensive work. It’s like playing with prime Ronnie but with 1/4 of the output. Currently we are better with Pogba left and Rash/Mason on the right. Hopefully we can get Sancho and give Rashford a chance to get to the bottom of his injuries and see if he can find the aggressive spark in his game again. If we look to start feeding Cavani properly from the wings we will break down stubborn bus teams more easily. Rashford is way too easily marked out of those physical games and he also kills our attacking momentum too frequently. He’s become a more predictable player since he got injured last year.

Compare Rashford with Son Mane Salah and even Kane’s best seasons. That’s what he’s up against if he wants to stay up front jogging around in a top team. I get his stats have still been pretty good this year but you just need to look at the Villa and Liverpool games for context. Very much on the periphery of game and still popping up with some numbers. I’m actually surprised he’s managed to assist so much when he’s become frustratingly selfish in dangerous attacking positions more often than not. The fact Cavani has almost caught up with him in league in 10 less games and Mason not far behind says a lot about his form for me.

Keep at least one of the wings for creativity and crossing and a beast in the box and we are getting somewhere. Keep relying on 3 similar wide forwards to just to figure it out and we aren’t going to get anywhere fast.
 

Gandalf

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For all of the negativity here the simple fact is that too much has been expected of Marcus over the past two seasons and then we turn around and criticize him for his failings when he is frequently played out of position and is playing hurt. The continued growth of Mason, the return of Martial and please god the arrival of Sancho or a.n.other competent RW option will reduce the load and allow for greater rotation of attacking options and a lessening of the expectation on his shoulders.

This year we have had Martial bang out of form, Mason was struggling for the first two thirds of the season and Cavani also and so Marcus was being expected to do all of the heavy lifting. If we can avoid putting him in that position again and take into account that the season will not be so compressed next year then I expect him to really kick on and have a great year.
 

SAFMUTD

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Another game where he manages to get a goal but overall was shit. He's had a bunch of those lately. His numbers are great this season but his performances haven't been.

I don't know if the injuries are true or not but if so he should take some time off, we should be seeing a star in the making and instead he looks as if his better years had past through him.
 

KM

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Well goals in Europe are kind of important. Had somebody else scored as many as he did maybe we wouldn’t have been dumped out of the Champions League at the first stage. Rashford also creates twice as many goals as Mane. So there’s that too.

He’s outscored him since the start of last season. He’s created more goals than him in that time. Despite this our fans act as if he’s the biggest problem in our team. Mane was given God status.
Facts aren’t important for this lot. They’re a cult. It’s bizzare.
 

Ali Dia

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Well goals in Europe are kind of important. Had somebody else scored as many as he did maybe we wouldn’t have been dumped out of the Champions League at the first stage. Rashford also creates twice as many goals as Mane. So there’s that too.

He’s outscored him since the start of last season. He’s created more goals than him in that time. Despite this our fans act as if he’s the biggest problem in our team. Mane was given God status.
They were coming off the back off winning everything and are currently on the way down unless they freshen up. You don’t think that it’s kind of pointless comparing his worst season in ages after winning everything (and he’s actually come out and apologised for his performances this year) with what is basically just Rashfords standard output and we are in second? Not getting the difference? Even if we’d 3 Rashfords they might have 10 goals in the league each but the performances wouldn’t be enough for us to win anything. That’s what people are saying. He’s an influential player. He should be a talisman for us but he’s mostly on the periphery playing the game at his own speed and our over reliance on him and how predictable that makes us has definitely cost us at times this season.
 
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SATA

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Wished that last minute chance for him at goal had rolled into the net. Would have done his confidence an extra world of good leading up to the cup final
 

Swiss_Red89

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I agree that his workrate was often poor this season. But am i the only one that thought his workrate was very good yesterday? He seemed to be up for it and pressed a lot when we didn't have the ball.
He was also constantly making runs when we had the ball as he is always doing. He looked sharp in the second half, so there is hope that we will see a sharp and fit Rashford in the final and the Euros.
 

Foxbatt

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Would Pep, Klopp or Tauchel let Rashford do his own thing match after match by running into 4 or 5 defenders and not passing etc but then score an important odd goal? I do not think so. He certainly has the talent but that talent has to be used properly. For sure SAF is not going to let any player play so selfishly like he plays now.
 

Eternitiy

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Are people getting carried away with the scoring stats?
If we're talking about the League, Rashford has scored 11 goals.
The rest were in European competitions and 1 in each of the 2 cups.

2 league goals at the start of the season, then a gap of more than a month and a half (7 weeks) before scoring again in December, where he had his league purple patch for the season and scored 5.

In the four and a half months since 1st Jan this year, Rashford has scored just 4 goals in 21 league games.
Of those 4, he scored 2 back in February (one was in the 9-0 against Soton, when nearly everyone got a goal).
Before his goal against the scousers, he last scored in the league on 4th April.
Last nights goal followed a gap of another 5 games without getting on the score sheet.

Most of the goals have been well taken, or belters, but are we getting carried away about the number of league goals he's scored?

A few days ago there was a story in the papers about what a poor season Sadio Mane has had.
In addition to poor performances, he's only scored 9 goals (in fewer appearances than Marcus) and that was considered a poor contribution.
When that was written, Marcus had only scored one more with 4 more appearances.
Their respective minutes per goal etc, were identical (obviously changed now after last nights goal).

Mind you, City's top scorer, Gundogan, has only scored one more league goal so far this season- He's on 12
Are you implying that goals in continental and cup competitions don't count?
 

Banana Republic

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Are you implying that goals in continental and cup competitions don't count?
No not at all.
I was just pointing out that, unlike what some people were saying, or implying, Marcus hasn’t been that big a scorer in the EPL this season.
11 goals is still a decent number, if not outstanding, but it still flatters his poor and sometimes awful performances in most league matches he’s played this season.
 
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roonster09

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No not at all.
I was just pointing out that, unlike what some people were saying, or implying, Marcus hasn’t been that big a scorer in the EPL this season.
11 goals is still a decent number, if not outstanding.
Only 6 players have scored more league goals than Rashford (non penalty goals), out of them 4 are CF. Among wide players, only Salah and Son have scored more.

Also not sure why assists are ignored, only 3 players have better goals + assists than Rashford in league (non penalty).
 

amolbhatia50k

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That sounds pretty low, gonna have to check that..
Normally Rahsford's main thing has always been end product. General play is always inconstant but I always feel he's got end product in him. So 11 sounds a bit puny for a player of that ilk
 

roonster09

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Normally Rahsford's main thing has always been end product. General play is always inconstant but I always feel he's got end product in him. So 11 sounds a bit puny for a player of that ilk
It's not low, end product also includes assists and only 3 players have more end product than Rashford (non penalty). Kane, Son and Bamford are the only players who contributed more goals + assists than him in the league.
 

stw2022

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For me trying to argue he’s a top class talent whilst accepting he looks like he’s brand new to football every time he plays slightly out of position don’t marry up

He’s a good player but he has regressed. He’s les sharp, less effective and seemingly les interested. His demeanour on pitch is concerning. He does walk around like he’s his own biggest cheerleader and believer in the fact he’s already a pinnacle footballer. I’m sorry but there’s no way Fergie or Keane would let him get away with his performances these last few months for 5 minutes
 

Banana Republic

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....Also not sure why assists are ignored, only 3 players have better goals + assists than Rashford in league (non penalty).
Assists is a rubbish stat.
Why it’s taken on some sort of significance ( in the wider football world) is baffling.
Assists are not always some bit of killer play, or some amazing pass.
Assists are given for any sort of involvement by the previous player to the scorer, which can be a deflection, inadvertent or poor pass, a failed attempt, a bit of rubbish play that the scorer follows with a goal or whatever.

Quite often the “real assist”, the one that should count, is the vital, incisive or defence splitting pass, cross or touch, made prior to the touch from the player who is awarded the assist.
The “real assist“ doesn’t get awarded or noted in the stats.
 

roonster09

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Assists is a rubbish stat.
Why it’s taken on some sort of significance ( in the wider football world) is baffling.
Assists are not always some bit of killer play, or some amazing pass.
Assists are given for any sort of involvement by the previous player to the scorer, which can be a deflection, inadvertent or poor pass, a failed attempt, a bit of rubbish play that the scorer follows with a goal or whatever.

Quite often the “real assist”, the one that should count, is the vital, incisive or defence splitting pass, cross or touch, made prior to the touch from the player who is awarded the assist.
The “real assist“ doesn’t get awarded or noted in the stats.
Only thing rubbish is your tedious posts. Rashford is 7th highest scorer in the league (non penalty goals), add the assists he is 4th best productive player in the league.

Goals are given for any sort of involvement by the player, which can be deflection, balling hitting the player who had no clue, poor cross attempt, tap in from couple of yards or a failed clearance which falls in place for a player luckily.

It's taken significance as it's an important stat, just because it doesn't fit your agenda doesn't mean it isn't.
 

stw2022

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Assists is a rubbish stat.
Why it’s taken on some sort of significance ( in the wider football world) is baffling.
Assists are not always some bit of killer play, or some amazing pass.
Assists are given for any sort of involvement by the previous player to the scorer, which can be a deflection, inadvertent or poor pass, a failed attempt, a bit of rubbish play that the scorer follows with a goal or whatever.

Quite often the “real assist”, the one that should count, is the vital, incisive or defence splitting pass, cross or touch, made prior to the touch from the player who is awarded the assist.
The “real assist“ doesn’t get awarded or noted in the stats.

I've long thought this. It's one of those strange stats that seem to have a life of its own. In general I think it's so depressing to see so many fans now instantly reach for stats. If your only opinion on the game that you just watched is wait until you see the stats come out to decide who you think played well and who didn't then I have no respect or interest in your opinion
 

roonster09

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Poster 1: Talks about player's productivity posting stats
Poster 2: Argues the productivity point by posting goals assists stats
Poster 3: It's depressing to see fans use stats to discuss productivity of the player

:lol:
 

amolbhatia50k

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It's not low, end product also includes assists and only 3 players have more end product than Rashford (non penalty). Kane, Son and Bamford are the only players who contributed more goals + assists than him in the league.
Interesting. Seems the league has been a bit poor this year if a player with just 11 league goals is one of the most productive?
 

Alan Partridge

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Rashford is a player of extraordinary physical and technical ability but his brain is just not there. When it’s obvious what he needs to do he usually executes it pretty well. But to be a great attacker you need a creative spark, an ability to see a way to open defenses - Rashford lacks this and I’m not sure it can ever be taught.

Above and beyond that incredibly frustrating aspect is his attitude of late, he loses the ball (very frequently) then slumps his shoulders and continues to stroll around making no attempt to win it back. Or throws his arms up as if it’s someone else fault. And that I find inexcusable.

He’s a great player but in my opinion he’ll never be world class.
 

jesperjaap

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One of the most disrespected players on this forum. He has been on and off this season but unlike when he was younger he still contributes with goals and assits when he is having a tough time. That's a great quality to have in a player. Two 20+ goal seasons a row. When was the last time we had a player do that? If he was at any other team we would be salivating at a chance of signing him.
From a personal point of view, I dont see my opinions coming from disrespect, more from frustration. I think the arguments some people are putting against him playing out of position for some time are valid. Previous managaer have tried to play him up front a lot (and Martial on the left) when it always looked like it should be the other way round, thankfully Ole has got that one right. With Pogba doing well on the let Ole has tried to still accomodate him on the right though which again just doesnt seem to work for him.

Personally and not even in a negative way, I think when he burst through he was a little bit over rated and we have expected too much from him. But by the same token he does have great ability running with the ball, tricks and with the Ronaldo like way of striking the ball. There is huge ability there. What frustrates me though is despite not expecting as much as some fans, he does have great ability but even playign on the left.....its the consistency of performance. The difference from top Rashford to average or poor Rashford is a huge huge drop and we get just as much if not more of the latter.

Maybe niggling injuries are playing a part. But he is 23 now, he should be reaching a better level of consistency individually. This is a problem with several of our most talented players, look at Martial who started so well and then bar period last year has never really been consistent and when not playing well....has been poor. Same could be levelled at Pogba and also Shaw until this season. These are all players with a lot of talent and with the exception of Rashford cost a lot of money that we had huge expectations from. If you were to take the top 20% of there performances out of the equation, individually you would have to say most of them have been poor for us.

Shaw of course has had his injury problems and manager problems, but he really is the example for the other players of what a difference consistent individual performances at the top end of a players game makes to the side.