[Kostov]

Because he was playing him offside.

Now that i looked at it again, you are right, Bailly plays him onside, but the whole defensive line is disrupted. Bailly is closest to De Gea, but Darmian is between Jones and Bailly. Not that i want to defend Bailly but full backs should coordinate based on CB position, not the other way around. That's my opinion based on my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong?

 

[stevoc]

A 50% fit Shaw would have been more effective than Darmian today. Stoke so were so narrow off the ball, and so many times Darmian received the ball with acres of space to drive in to down the left wing, but instead he'd turn 90 degrees and play a pass back in to centre of midfield. So many times our midfield had the ball looking for a run, and it was always Valencia. Darmian never did the equivalent on his side. He barely stepped over the half way line. Even Blind, probably the slowest player we have, would have posed an infinitely greater threat. Ashley Young on crutches and a permanent mouthful of bird shit would have been more of a threat.

He made a few good defensive recoveries, but he just offers nothing going forwards when there are opportunities for him to attack the space and stretch Stoke. We often hear that Mourinho only wants one attacking full back, but surely he wouldn't ever instruct a full back to not attack when there is acres and acres of space and the opposition are caught short, of which there were a few occasions of that today. No chance.


Reminds me of Tom Cleverley. Constantly points to someone else instead of showing for a pass, never makes himself available via movement, and always seems to be standing behind an opposing player. I think he's a decent defender, would probably be fairly solid as an LCB or RCB of a back 3 like Azpi at Chelsea (bit not quite as good). He just can't be a full back when he is so blunt as an attacker or playmaker. Just an utterly uninspiring player to watch.



And those fecking sideburns. Sort your life out.

Of course not the idea that Mourinho instructs him or any fullback to be ultra defensive is ridiculous, Jose doesn't tell Darmian to not attack he can get up the pitch if he wants to. He simply chooses not to time after time, he just doesn't have the mentality to be adventurous and take a risk.

 

[Snow]

Except Blind does the same and still offers more in attack. Don't know why Jose suddenly started him over Blind.

Perhaps to rotate? Not a huge difference between them and Darmian isn't useless like you saw in our 2nd goal which all started with him.

 

[Hed Zitin]

Perhaps to rotate? Not a huge difference between them and Darmian isn't useless like you saw in our 2nd goal which all started with him.

No difference? Blind probably spends about three times the amount Darmian does in helping our attacks. Blind does not let his lack of pace get in the way of getting in the final third. He has way more confidence on the ball.

 

[arthurka]

Now that i looked at it again, you are right, Bailly plays him onside, but the whole defensive line is disrupted. Bailly is closest to De Gea, but Darmian is between Jones and Bailly. Not that i want to defend Bailly but full backs should coordinate based on CB position, not the other way around. That's my opinion based on my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong?

Bailly fecked this one up plain and simple...

 

[Roberto420]

Once I seen his name on the team sheet I just knew we'd struggle, he's definitely the worst fullback I can remember playing for us how he gets a game for Italy totally baffles me a coward pure and simple.

Give me Blind over Darmian everyday of the week

 

[Hugh Jass]

Mourinho played him for a specific reason, in that he knew it would be a tough game today, which it was. If we were playing Stoke at home, he would have started Blind or Shaw (if fit). I agree with Mourinhos thinking. I knew it would be a tough match.

 

[horsechoker]

I didn't think he was that bad today

 

[stevoc]

Perhaps to rotate? Not a huge difference between them and Darmian isn't useless like you saw in our 2nd goal which all started with him.

Defensively perhaps not its deabatable at least. But going forward Darmian makes Blind look like prime Cafu.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Partly at fault for the first goal but it was more on Bailly. But there is just so much that is frustrating about Darmian. First of all, he's a right footer on the left side and he's not particularly two footed. He puts in great challenges sometimes but then makes wrong decisions. But by far the worst thing is his cowardliness in possession. I don't require a perfect left footed cross from him when he receives the ball, I understand that's simply impossible. But he doesn't even try to push forward with the ball and look for an option down the line or outside, just cuts back and plays it to the centrebacks. Stops our attack in it's tracks. I'd rather he push forward and lose a few balls than keep possession but slow down our attack to a snail's pace. Blind isn't particularly fast either but he is intelligent and has a decent ball on him, don't understand why he didn't play after two assists in midweek

 

[TheSamulator]

the lad is pure shite

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Partly at fault for the first goal but it was more on Bailly. But there is just so much that is frustrating about Darmian. First of all, he's a right footer on the left side and he's not particularly two footed. He puts in great challenges sometimes but then makes wrong decisions. But by far the worst thing is his cowardliness in possession. I don't require a perfect left footed cross from him when he receives the ball, I understand that's simply impossible. But he doesn't even try to push forward with the ball and look for an option down the line or outside, just cuts back and plays it to the centrebacks. Stops our attack in it's tracks. I'd rather he push forward and lose a few balls than keep possession but slow down our attack to a snail's pace. Blind isn't particularly fast either but he is intelligent and has a decent ball on him, don't understand why he didn't play after two assists in midweek

You've really hit the nail on the head there. The way he controls the ball and then looks desperate to release it with the most simple pass backwards, drives me insane. Honestly not sure what he has over Blind. His defending is also bang average

 

[Devil may care]

I thought he did well defensively for the most part, I don't see any point in complaining about his lack of attacking quality, Jose knows he has none and obviously picked him to essentially be a 3rd CB.

 

[ti vu]

Now that i looked at it again, you are right, Bailly plays him onside, but the whole defensive line is disrupted. Bailly is closest to De Gea, but Darmian is between Jones and Bailly. Not that i want to defend Bailly but full backs should coordinate based on CB position, not the other way around. That's my opinion based on my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong?

You can't coordinate with the CB on the other side, who went to sleep. He coordinated with Jones position and being disciplined by doing the offside trap. What did you mean by he was between Bailly and Jones? Darmian was left back. That's goal is 100% Bailly fault from the offside to losing his mark when defending the cross.

Overall his role is to stay put on left wing and enable Valencia to go all out in first half offensively on right wing. He is the type of defender to plug hole than trying to win every foot race, dominating opposition wide attacker. It's Italian defensive style in forcing opponent out wide where the only option is to cross which CBS should be good enough to deal with. Unfortunately our CBs had their off day and the tactic backfire, when in reality, Stoke forwards should not trouble us on another day at all given how well our CBs can take care of even bigger threat.

 

[Minimalist]

I've only just realised this guy is playing full 90 minutes for the Italian side. Are Italy complete wank these days I assume?

 

[K2K]

No need to get angry with him.

You know what he brings (and doesn't bring to the table).

Sigh.

 

[el3mel]

I wouldn't have any problems with his lack of attack today if he defended well but he actually didn't, so it's a terrible game from this aspect.

Stoke has been exposing his side through the whole match especially during the first half. Even Blind would have done a much better game defensively I assume.

 

[United22]

Not fecking good enough, average at everything

 

[ti vu]

I wouldn't have any problems with his lack of attack today if he defended well but he actually didn't, so it's a terrible game from this aspect.

Stoke has been exposing his side through the whole match especially during the first half. Even Blind would have done a much better game defensively I assume.

He is not terrible defensively unless you expect him to have dominating style like someone like Valencia. His role is prevent Stoke players to cut in the gap between himself and the CB on his side (Jones). Stoke normally lacks end product from their crossing too. Just our CBs had a mare in fulfilling the duty they were entrusted. On another day when our CBs had decent game, they would be comfortable enough to deal with this Stoke attack. Remember these guys have games where they shut down better attackers than Stoke's.

Back to Darmian, Stoke ain't really exploited the gap on his side but got force wide more often compare to our right wing which we gambled by letting Valencia getting forward more.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Played fine today. Not an attacking full back and not a left footer so was never going to be an attacking magician. The fact that people are trying to blame him for goal one and not slating bailly 5x more says it all about agenda against an unpopular player

 

[el3mel]

He is not terrible defensively unless you expect him to have dominating style like someone like Valencia. His role is prevent Stoke players to cut in the gap between himself and the CB on his side (Jones). Stoke normally lacks end product from their crossing too. Just our CBs had a mare in fulfilling the duty they were entrusted.

He was today. Stoke has been focusing on his side through the whole match and their long balls to his side was always going through him. I think he only got one good moment defensively during the second half but all in all he failed to cover his side defensively as what was expected from him.

It's true that our CBs were the bigger problem today but he can't escape the blame.

 

[ti vu]

He was today. Stoke has been focusing on his side through the whole match and their long balls to his side was always going through him. I think he only got one good moment defensively during the second half but all in all he failed to cover his side defensively as what was expected from him.

It's true that our CBs were the bigger problem today but he can't escape the blame.

You still don't get the point. They try go long and go outside. From that position the option is to cross which should play into our hand given they lack the support. The point is he ain't supposed to outright win it most of the time but to keep the defensive shape to prevent Stoke try to do something in the gap. Crossing is expected, and our CBs are also expected to deal with it well.

I was regular Serie A watcher back in late 90s and early 00s and this is very Italian tactic. Inter vs Bayern in CL final employ similar tactic with Maicon and Chivu.

 

[el3mel]

You still don't get the point. They try go long and go outside. From that position the option is to cross which should play into our hand given they lack the support. The point is he ain't supposed to outright win it most of the time but to keep the defensive shape to prevent Stoke try to do something in the gap. Crossing is expected.

I was regular Serie A watcher back in late 90s and early 00s and this is very Italian tactic. Inter vs Bayern in CL final employ similar tactic with Maicon and Chivu.

You may have a point, but what I don't get is : why even let them cross from the start ?

 

[ti vu]

You may have a point, but what I don't get is : why even let them cross from the start ?

We set up to take control of possession. On a counter, if the other team is to be forced out wide and to cross the ball, they should be outnumbered inside the box. Remember we had Matic who is well built, to protect our CBs too. Having Herrera I guess meaning Matic is more dedicated in his role down the pitch more.

Our first conceded goal, even we caught surprised by Bailly breaking our offside trap, we outnumbered Stoke attacker. On theory, tactically we're at advantage. If we defended the cross well, then Stoke has no chance for a following up. This is why Bailly's mistake (this time defending in the box) is huge since it's very down to individual.

 

[Kostov]

You can't coordinate with the CB on the other side, who went to sleep. He coordinated with Jones position and being disciplined by doing the offside trap. What did you mean by he was between Bailly and Jones? Darmian was left back. That's goal is 100% Bailly fault from the offside to losing his mark when defending the cross.

Overall his role is to stay put on left wing and enable Valencia to go all out in first half offensively on right wing. He is the type of defender to plug hole than trying to win every foot race, dominating opposition wide attacker. It's Italian defensive style in forcing opponent out wide where the only option is to cross which CBS should be good enough to deal with. Unfortunately our CBs had their off day and the tactic backfire, when in reality, Stoke forwards should not trouble us on another day at all given how well our CBs can take care of even bigger threat.

Okey then, if he was coordinating with Jones he was still behind and not in line with him (that's what i meant between Jones and Bailly), all of them were out of any line a defense should be. Don't get me wrong i don't want to defend Bailly, but they were all shambolic, the defensive organisation was pathetic, and Bailly should get the blame here definitely.
About the other part, i think it's general nonsense that he is instructed to stay behind because Jose wants only one FB to bomb forward. There was an interview with Shaw last season contradicting that. Darmian is just very limited FB for the modern game, he isn't fast nor strong enough to contribute anything to a dynamic attack. Personally except his obvious Italian background and defensive education which shows in certain roles in the game i don't rate his defensive game either. He gets beaten in duels more often than not and some of his clearances barely get out of the box.
He shouldn't be starting games for us, plain and simple, i'm yet to see a performance of him that leaves me with an impression: "Yeah this guy is a Manchester United full back."

 

[el3mel]

We set up to take control of possession. On a counter, if the other team is to be forced out wide and to cross the ball, they should be outnumbered inside the box. Remember we had Matic who is well built, to protect our CBs too. Having Herrera I guess meaning Matic is more dedicated in his role down the pitch more.

Our first conceded goal, even we caught surprised by Bailly broke our offside trap, we outnumbered Stoke attacker. On theory, tactically we're at advantage. If we defended the cross well, then Stoke has no chance for a following up. This is why Bailly's mistake is huge since it's very down to individual.

And that's why I don't like depending on the offside trap much, because a single player who lost his concentration or a single ref mistake and your offside trap is thrown out of the window. I think it would have been much better if we defended this ball normally with Darmian closing on their wide player and preventing him from doing the cross instead of depending on other players opening the offside trap on this wide player. Not saying Bailly wasn't a fault at this goal ( he was and had a terrible game ) but I can't gave any excuse for Darmian also. I much prefer the way Valencia is defending his side even if he's poor offensively.

 

[ti vu]

And that's why I don't like depending on the offside trap much, because a single player who lost his concentration or a single ref mistake and your offside trap is thrown out of the window. I think it would have been much better if we defended this ball normally with Darmian closing on their wide player and preventing him from doing the cross instead of depending on other players opening the offside trap on this wide player. Not saying Bailly wasn't a fault at this goal ( he was and had a terrible game ) but I can't gave any excuse for Darmian also. I much prefer the way Valencia is defending his side even if he's poor offensively.

I don't disagree and which I believe it's what Mourinho said as our weakness (wide options lest being forced into this one side tactic). He was bold about our fourth signing would have been a player for the side (wide player). We just don't have similar player as Valencia available at the moment. Blind is worse at defending the pocket of space and worse in keeping offside trap. Hypothetically if Blind plays this game, then Rashford would be asked to do more defensive work (he had more freedom staying up front this game) and Lukaku would be more isolated up front. This game was frustrating by the result, but in term of goals/ offensively play, we were better than the past few season away to Stoke. As I explained our CBs were our undoing which came unexpected (at least twice in one game).

I am not giving excuse for Darmian, but explained his role. The same role that got him the call up for Italy NT under quite few regimes at the moment. I am not saying he's great but he is very discipline and for most part fulfill his "limited" role.

 

[el3mel]

I don't disagree and which I believe it's what Mourinho said as our weakness (wide options lest being forced into this one side tactic). He was bold about our fourth signing would have been a player for the side (wide player). We just don't have similar player as Valencia available at the moment. Blind is worse at defending the pocket of space and worse in keeping offside trap. Hypothetically if Blind plays this game, then Rashford would be asked to do more defensive work (he had more freedom staying up front this game) and Lukaku would be more isolated up front. This game was frustrating by the result, but in term of goals/ offensively play, we were better than the past few season away to Stoke. As I explained our CBs were our undoing which came unexpected (at least twice in one game).

I am not giving excuse for Darmian, but explained his role. The same role that got him the call up for Italy NT under quite few regimes at the moment. I am not saying he's great but he is very discipline and for most part fulfill his "limited" role.

I agree with this point. There's a massive difference between today's draw and last season's draws. Last season our problems were in getting the goal in not in defending and we were always drawing 1-1 or 0-0 due to this. This time we scored 2 goals, more than enough to win us this game but the defense costed us, something I find it unlikely to get repeated considering we overall have a good defensive system most of time. This is really the draw I can say "one of these days" on it, unlike all the draws of last season when the problem was obvious. This is a normal draw we have seen the likes of it even under SAF anyway.

 

[ti vu]

I agree with this point. There's a massive difference between today's draw and last season's draws. Last season our problems were in getting the goal in not in defending and we were always drawing 1-1 or 0-0 due to this. This time we scored 2 goals, more than enough to win us this game but the defense costed us, something I find it unlikely to get repeated considering we overall have a good defensive system most of time. This is really the draw I can say "one of these days" on it, unlike all the draws of last season when the problem was obvious. This is a normal draw we have seen the likes of it even under SAF anyway.

This type of game is where I believe the real test for world class quality. Our CBs may have high ceiling, but I think they do better in tough game since the circumstances do the natural motivation work. Against lesser players, there is a lot of self motivation to stay on top of the one's game, which our guys one after another tripping here and there.

Okey then, if he was coordinating with Jones he was still behind and not in line with him (that's what i meant between Jones and Bailly), all of them were out of any line a defense should be. Don't get me wrong i don't want to defend Bailly, but they were all shambolic, the defensive organisation was pathetic, and Bailly should get the blame here definitely.
About the other part, i think it's general nonsense that he is instructed to stay behind because Jose wants only one FB to bomb forward. There was an interview with Shaw last season contradicting that. Darmian is just very limited FB for the modern game, he isn't fast nor strong enough to contribute anything to a dynamic attack. Personally except his obvious Italian background and defensive education which shows in certain roles in the game i don't rate his defensive game either. He gets beaten in duels more often than not and some of his clearances barely get out of the box.
He shouldn't be starting games for us, plain and simple, i'm yet to see a performance of him that leaves me with an impression: "Yeah this guy is a Manchester United full back."

Go check the goal again and hear what I have to explain. 1. Darmian constantly kept check on Diouf for offside. 2. He coordinated with Jones position (knowing Diouf was offside). 3. Jones tried read the situation and decided to step up to pick up potential Shaqiri's run. 4. Darmian didn't have to follow Jones. His duty was to keep watch his mark/ area for potential offside breaker. Darmian duty for his mark/area in the offside trap ended there. There was no Stoke player within Darmian's catchable zone onside. Darmian is reasonably not tasked to try coordinate with Bailly who is a position away.

I believe people misinterpret Shaw interview. Knowing Mourinho, we should know better he builds tactic base on the players and opponent. There is no set in stones instruction/tactic. Darmian, Blind and Shaw all have different attribute. Can't believe someone like Mourinho would instruct all his full backs to play the same, yet there is blatant contrast between how these players play. And yet again certain full back neglect the offensive play yet still be counted upon from time to time in certain games.

This guy same guy started in some of our best performance last season: Chelsea at home and EL final. If we're that rigid in tactic then I doubt we have enough for starting XI let alone building a squad.

 

[el3mel]

This type of game is where I believe the real test for world class quality. Our CBs may have high ceiling, but I thinking they do better in tough game since the circumstances do the natural motivation work. Against lesser players, there is a lot of self motivation to stay on top of the one's game, which see our guys one after another tripping here and there.

They have done well in the previous matches and they were all against lesser players. IMO Jones always got a problem in marking crosses while Bailly being young and inexperienced got these brainfarts here and there even since the last season. It'll only improve with experience I believe.

 

[breakout67]

One of the better performers in the team, solid positioning, made runs when needed, a bit of last ditch defending to cover for Jones mistake.

Not surprised there are posters saying he was shite because he wasnt playing like a winger.

 

[Red_toad]

Perhaps to rotate? Not a huge difference between them and Darmian isn't useless like you saw in our 2nd goal which all started with him.

His 1 saving grace in the game. Stoke targetted him as the weak link in our team. It worked time after time. He was terrible, no idea how Jones got lowest rated player of the match. Blind is far better, due to him being a natural lefty. Shaw being up to speed cannot come quickly enough.

 

[stevoc]

One of the better performers in the team, solid positioning, made runs when needed, a bit of last ditch defending to cover for Jones mistake.

Not surprised there are posters saying he was shite because he wasnt playing like a winger.

I'd settle for him playing like a left back.

I've only just realised this guy is playing full 90 minutes for the Italian side. Are Italy complete wank these days I assume?

Well their fullbacks must be if Darmian is a regular. Sad state of affairs considering the defenders they had in the past.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

I would like to see this kind of industry and fullback intelligence but on the right side of defense, fullbacks for us are a bit of a jumble at the moment. Thought he played well today.

 

[kouroux]

Mourinho played him for a specific reason, in that he knew it would be a tough game today, which it was. If we were playing Stoke at home, he would have started Blind or Shaw (if fit). I agree with Mourinhos thinking. I knew it would be a tough match.

How did that work out ?

 

[Snow]

No difference? Blind probably spends about three times the amount Darmian does in helping our attacks. Blind does not let his lack of pace get in the way of getting in the final third. He has way more confidence on the ball.

What does that even mean? This is total nonsense. How are you quantifying this?

His 1 saving grace in the game. Stoke targetted him as the weak link in our team. It worked time after time. He was terrible, no idea how Jones got lowest rated player of the match. Blind is far better, due to him being a natural lefty. Shaw being up to speed cannot come quickly enough.

It worked time after time? You must have rated Valencia's contribution in the game of the highest order. I wasn't fussed about Stoke's attack at all in this game. They scored from a corner which has no tactical relevance, simply poor marking from Jones who keeled over. Bailly completely messed up the first goal, inexcusable defending.

Diouf managed an assist but otherwise did nothing and Shaqiri was forced to cut back and cross from way out and was otherwise ineffective in the match. If your judgement of Darmian this match was terrible then your rating of other players must have been very low but since you can't understand why Jones is getting low ratings then I can only deduct that you're watching his performance with tainted glasses.

Yes Darmian is average but his performance is stable. He presses the players, he doesn't lose the ball in bad positions and he puts in a shift. That's what he does and that's what we can expect from him. Today we got a bonus when he was the ignition to our 2nd goal when he won the ball brilliantly of Jesé and brought it forward to Mkhi. He's one of few players that Mourinho was happy with today, I can guarantee you that.

Him playing instead of Blind doesn't change the fundamentals of our team at all and to me it hardly matters who does play. I don't expect our attack to suffer one bit because our left is always weaker anyways and that's the way it is and what it's going to be. I have less faith in Shaw who has shown very little promise since his injury.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

He was a big part in us scoring the second goal

 

[Kostov]

Go check the goal again and hear what I have to explain. 1. Darmian constantly kept check on Diouf for offside. 2. He coordinated with Jones position (knowing Diouf was offside). 3. Jones tried read the situation and decided to step up to pick up potential Shaqiri's run. 4. Darmian didn't have to follow Jones. His duty was to keep watch his mark/ area for potential offside breaker. Darmian duty for his mark/area in the offside trap ended there. There was no Stoke player within Darmian's catchable zone onside. Darmian is reasonably not tasked to try coordinate with Bailly who is a position away.

As i already said, you were right and Bailly should take the blame here, in my opinion CB should organize the defense and he failed here, even though i still think Darmian is failing to do whatever he planned on doing. (probably i'm biased since i don't like the Italian and give me a pass on this one)

I believe people misinterpret Shaw interview. Knowing Mourinho, we should know better he builds tactic base on the players and opponent. There is no set in stones instruction/tactic. Darmian, Blind and Shaw all have different attribute. Can't believe someone like Mourinho would instruct all his full backs to play the same, yet there is blatant contrast between how these players play. And yet again certain full back neglect the offensive play yet still be counted upon from time to time in certain games.

This guy same guy started in some of our best performance last season: Chelsea at home and EL final. If we're that rigid in tactic then I doubt we have enough for starting XI let alone building a squad.

Of course Mourinho builds tactic based on what he has, that's one of his best qualities. I bet he loves another Valencia on the left side thought, or he would love if Shaw finally builds on his potential. Modern game relies so much on offensive full-backs, and Matteo certainly isn't one.
You are right on the last part, he can be very effective in some roles, and i don't mind him here as part of the squad, but he shouldn't be a starter.

 

[ti vu]

Of course Mourinho builds tactic based on what he has, that's one of his best qualities. I bet he loves another Valencia on the left side thought, or he would love if Shaw finally builds on his potential. Modern game relies so much on offensive full-backs, and Matteo certainly isn't one.
You are right on the last part, he can be very effective in some roles, and i don't mind him here as part of the squad, but he shouldn't be a starter.

Bar the Super Cup, this is his first start in 4 games... not really a guaranteed starter by the look of it.

Sure we all want a balanced attacking full backs. The thing is very few was available. It's for another discussion, but those moved this summer we're not all that. Gambling on our previous investment in Shaw seems to be the case with Blind and Darmian to chip in here and there in the meanwhile. There is no reason to think Darmian would be long term starter for us and get worked up since he is a different type of full back. Not great he is, but terrible and liability he is not.

 

[Devil81]

Never been a fan of the lad, as others have said he's a coward in and out of possession. He's so weak in the tackle it's scary.

Yesterday was far from his worst game but it certainly showed we were weaker down the left with him on the field.