Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


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I saw the following on page 184. Just thought we might find it interesting....

.......................

C. RONALDO vs MESSI IN COURT*

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden ball?
Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times.
Messi: Yes, 5 times as well.
Judge: Have any of you won the Golden Boot?
Ronaldo: Yes, 4 times.
Messi: Same here.
Judge: How many individual trophies have you each won?
Ronaldo: 16.
Messi: 13.
Judge: Have any of you played for another club’s first team besides your current one?
Ronaldo: Yes! Sporting CP in Portugal first division and Manchester United in BPL.
Messi: No. Only Barcelona.
Judge: Have any of you won a title with your national team?
Ronaldo: Yes! We won Portugal’s first ever European Championship.
Messi: No.
Judge: How many goals have each of you scored for your respective teams?
Ronaldo: Should I count the goals I’ve scored for Man United and Sporting?
Judge: No. Only for Real Madrid.
Ronaldo: 427 goals in 421 appearances or 9 seasons.
Messi: 534 goals in 617 appearances or 14 seasons.
Judge: Who has scored more hat-tricks in La Liga?
Ronaldo: Me. 35 in La Liga.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I’ve scored 28.
Judge: Which is the most prestigious competition in club football?
Ronaldo: Champions League.
Messi: Champions League.
Judge: Have any of you won Champions League?
Ronaldo: Yes, 4 times in total with 2 different teams. Once with Man United and 3 times with Madrid.
Messi: Yes, 4 times as well with Barcelona only.
Judge: Who has scored more goals in the CL between the two of you?
Ronaldo: I’ve scored 114 goals in the CL.
Messi: I’ve scored 97.
Judge: Who has more assists between the two of you in the CL?
Ronaldo: I have 38.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I have 26.
Judge: Who has scored more goals in total in the CL finals?
Ronaldo: Me.
Messi: Ronaldo.
Judge: Which one of you have scored more free kicks?
Ronaldo: I have.
Messi: Ronaldo has.
Judge: Most goals with weak foot?
Ronaldo: Me, I think.
Messi: (Nods in agreement).
Judge: Most goals from outside of the box?
Ronaldo: Me.. again.
Messi: Ronaldo.
Judge: Who has scored more headers?
Ronaldo: Is that a serious question?
Messi: ...
Judge: Who has a better penalty conversion rate?
Ronaldo: I think I do. I’ve scored 82% of the penalties I’ve taken.
Messi: I’ve scored 77% of the penalties I’ve taken.
Judge: Which one of you have scored the most goals in total during your career?
Ronaldo: I think I have. 628 goals.
Messi: I’ve scored 595.
Judge: How many football records do each of you hold in total for both club and country?
Ronaldo: 146
Messi: 110
Judge: Well, after analyzing all of the facts that have been presented to me. I can only draw one conclusion when it comes to comparing you both as football players. That conclusion is that Ronaldo is the better player in almost every category. When it comes to goal scoring and accolades for both club and country, Ronaldo comes out on top. Messi, you are without a doubt Barcelona’s best player of all time. But certainly not the world’s best ever. That is clearly Ronaldo at the moment.
Messi: But I am younger than Ronaldo and haven’t played as many matches as him.
Judge: I understand that, but until you surpass his goal scoring records and win as many trophies both individually and collectively as he has, then Ronaldo will, according to the statistics, be considered as the best football player of all time. Until then, keep pushing on and you just might be able to achieve just as much as Ronaldo ! . Case close.

Can some one disagree with this high court of football?
Lardamersay:lol::lol:
 
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Question to all - if by chance Portutal win the WC (after winning the Euros) and Madrid win the CL in a few weeks (entirely likely) - how do you feel it would change Ronnie's legacy ?
Whoever of them bags a world cup with a reasonable performance will become the undisputed greater player. Plus the first person to sit on the same pedestal with Pele and Maradona. Right now both are seated with Di Stefano as the greatest club players ever.
 

Apocalypse

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Wow, so Ronaldo scores a brilliant overhead kick and suddenly gains 60 odd votes overnight? If ever you needed proof football fans are extremely fickle...
 

STYLOISRED

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I just want to ask a question. Isn't there a difference between the best player of all time and the greatest player of all time? Because I think they are different. The best player could be the most insanely talented while the greatest could be the one with the biggest achievement, glory and game. For example as a Nigerian, the best player in our nation's footbfootball history is Jay Jay Okocha. An insane dribbled magician with the ball albeit with issues of consistency and drive. While the greatest football player is Nwankwo Kanu- a player with a poor background fought hard to play despite not receiving encouragement from any one and became a very important player for use. A decent dribbler, excellent poacher and strong winning mentality. We never had better big-game player. Almost a decade after both retired and I can safely say 'papilo' Kanu is more revered by Nigerian football supporters because of the many important goals he scored for us.
Sorry for the epistle just trying to make a point- best player and greatest player don't have to be the same. And a player could be one, without being the other
 
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carvajal

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Look how his % increased in one day :lol:.
He was reading redcafe,saw that the poll ends in June and got serious,like with the ballon d'or
 

KirkDuyt

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Ronaldo: I’ve scored 114 goals in the CL.
Messi: I’ve scored 97.

It's funny how it omits the amount of appearances for CL, but includes it for La Liga. Wonder why that is :) Might've something to do with the fact that one of em started his first match in La Liga when he was 16 innit.



thing I wonder about most with respect to past greats is the amount of resistance. At this point in time all the great players play for the same 8 teams in Europe, whilst in the past the top was much more spread out. Put Maradona in current Real or Barca and I think he'd score a metric ton of goals.

These 2 are obviously both in a small list of all time greats, but who's on top I dunno, I think if Ronaldo wins the CL again this year, achievement wise it's hard to argue against him as more succesfull than Messi. If either of em wins the world cup that's a big step too. Of course individual brilliance and team success aren't a 1 on 1 match in football since it's a team game. So perhaps most successful and best aren't the same thing.

All in all I think Cristiano is putting a big exclamation mark behind his name at the moment. Let's see if Messi can step up :)
 
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roonster09

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Ronaldo: I’ve scored 114 goals in the CL.
Messi: I’ve scored 97.

It's funny how it omits the amount of appearances for CL, but includes it for La Liga. Wonder why that is :) Might've something to do with the fact that one of em started his first match in La Liga when he was 16 innit.
Ronaldo also played as winger in 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1 till mid 2007-08 season. So yeah, his game record won't tell full story.
 

Doracle

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By my slightly rough and ready calculations, at the start of the Champions League 5 years ago, Messi has scored 59 UCL goals and Ronaldo 51.

Despite Messi scoring a barely believable 41 UCL goals over the last 5 years, he’s now 18 goals behind. In that period, Ronaldo has scored 67.

I remember being certain Messi would end as the champions league top scorer a few years ago when they were neck and neck but Ronaldo is starting to get enough of a lead that, if they were both to retire at the same age, I think he will probably hold on.
 

VanGaalEra

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Lol the poll was 71-29 last night, it swung 7% in Ronaldo's favour after that performance and goal.
 

RedRonaldo

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I just want to ask a question. Isn't there a difference between the best player of all time and the greatest player of all time? Because I think they are different. The best player could be the most insanely talented while the greatest could be the one with the biggest achievement, glory and game. For example as a Nigerian, the best player in our nation's footbfootball history is Jay Jay Okocha. An insane dribbled magician with the ball albeit with issues of consistency and drive. While the greatest football player is Nwankwo Kanu- a player with a poor background fought hard to play despite not receiving encouragement from any one and became a very important player for use. A decent dribbler, excellent poacher and strong winning mentality. We never had better big-game player. Almost a decade after both retired and I can safely say 'papilo' Kanu is more revered by Nigerian football supporters because of the many important goals he scored for us.
Sorry for the epistle just trying to make a point- best player and greatest player don't have to be the same. And a player could be one, without being the other
IMO Messi is always the better player (footballing+peak performance), but Ronaldo is going to be greater (achievement+legacy). Right now I thought they are equal in terms of GOAT.
 

kouroux

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Not the same role. Messi was a wing forward, Ronaldo was winger.
On paper only he was a winger, he wasn't tracking back whatsoever ,he was given freedom to roam forward with minimal defensive duties which allowed him to explode from a statistical POV. I always laugh at this notion of "winger" for Ronaldo, like it prevented him somehow from scoring or like it made him defend more than a normal wing forward.
 

roonster09

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On paper only he was a winger, he wasn't tracking back whatsoever ,he was given freedom to roam forward with minimal defensive duties which allowed him to explode from a statistical POV. I always laugh at this notion of "winger" for Ronaldo, like it prevented him somehow from scoring or like it made him defend more than a normal wing forward.
He was winger till 2007, it was only from 2007 or 2008 he was given free role.
 

The holy trinity 68

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KirkDuyt

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Funny that he leaves out the fact that Messi is about to win his 7th league title. And Ronaldo has won 5, 2 since he moved to Madrid.
Or the fact only his CL goals at United whilst his league goals are disregarded, since counting them Messi has a better goal per game ratio in the league.

I doubt anyone is questioning Ronaldo is more successful in the CL, but then just call it Ronaldo & Messi in court - Champions league edition. Leave the framing to Fox news.
 

Zlaatan

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I just want to ask a question. Isn't there a difference between the best player of all time and the greatest player of all time? Because I think they are different. The best player could be the most insanely talented while the greatest could be the one with the biggest achievement, glory and game. For example as a Nigerian, the best player in our nation's footbfootball history is Jay Jay Okocha. An insane dribbled magician with the ball albeit with issues of consistency and drive. While the greatest football player is Nwankwo Kanu- a player with a poor background fought hard to play despite not receiving encouragement from any one and became a very important player for use. A decent dribbler, excellent poacher and strong winning mentality. We never had better big-game player. Almost a decade after both retired and I can safely say 'papilo' Kanu is more revered by Nigerian football supporters because of the many important goals he scored for us.
Sorry for the epistle just trying to make a point- best player and greatest player don't have to be the same. And a player could be one, without being the other
Agreed. There's a difference between who's the best player and who's the greatest player and I think part of the reason why there's so much chaos in here is because people aren't talking about the same thing. Some have even said that they think one player is better but argues for the other because they like him more, so there's a bunch of opinions flying around but not all of them adress the same question.

Ronaldo's goal was just brillant. His finishing is simply perfection. That bicycle kick was incredibly hard. The height, the angle, is own movenment against the direction he wanted to shoot.. amazing. It's like he's a robot that sees the ball, calculates its distance, curve, pace and precisely knows when to jump and kick in order to hit it perfectly. And he's already 33. At that age, most other players would have broken their backs or something like that. Except for Ibrahimovic, probably.

I think if a player like Crouch scores 3000 goals he needs incredible provision of goal scoring opportunities because he doesn't create them himself. I get your point because obviously you need incredible abilities (especially awareness, anticipation and intelligence) in order to position yourself correctly and an amazing technique in order to finish your chances (and probably athleticism too). But in the end, you are totally reliant on your colleagues. Ronaldo cannot really create chances out of the midflield. Or, let's put it that way: He is nothing special in it anymore and even the Manchester United Cristiano, albeit a brillant creator, was not on Messi's level. For instance, if the midfield engine of Madrid isn't working, Ronaldo won't fall back, take the ball, dribble past an opponent, play a little bit one-two with the forward and then finish it himself or assist a team mate. He simply doesn't do that. He at least needs a cross to come in the box (even if it is bad, just like today) or a pass he can run into. For me, that is the difference.

It is really a question of preferrences. Which quality of a player do you rate as the most important personally? If you say it's the abilities Ronaldo exceeds in (positioning, finishing, "guts" etc.) than that is fair. But you should use these criteria on every player. Because historically, other attributes have been used in order to identify the greatest players.

And personally, I stick with the other attributes. I admire Ronaldo, he is the best player in the box I have ever seen, but put him exemplarily in a side like Barcelona at the beginning of this season and I don't think that you will see much of him. Messi can drop into the midfield to initiate attacks if you need him to. In fact, this is what he does most of the time in the last two seasons and for Argentina in general. It is amazing that he still ends up on the scoring sheet that often. You cannot bother Ronaldo with the same things. Of course you could neither ask Messi to go into the box to fight with the center backs and score after a cross but I simply feel like Messi contributes more to the success of his teams with the things he does although it cannot be measured in goals. Put him in front of a midfield like Kroos and Modric or Iniesta and Xavi and he scores even more than Cristiano.

Probably you could put it that way: The Cristiano of the past five years (and this is the one that won three of his four Ballon D'Ors and thus the player that shaped his legacy) is close to nothing without provision. But if Messi is not provided with scoring opportunities, he simply creates them on his own and miracously still ends up at the end of them. That makes him more versatile for me. Because he steps in if there's a creative vacuum but also when the team doesn't score enough goals.

Please don't understand that as criticism of Cristiano. As I said, I think he is an incredible player and deserves to be mentioned among the all-time best although he maintains a totally different playing style since he is so good at it. However, when we are talking about the spheres I see Messi in (which is at Maradona and Pele level) then this stain keeps him out if you ask me.
Wtf is up with you and your well balanced, reasoned, intelligent and honest posts? This is the Messi v Ronaldo thread, get that shit out of here. ;)
 

The holy trinity 68

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Or the fact only his CL goals at United whilst his league goals are disregarded, since counting them Messi has a better goal per game ratio in the league.

I doubt anyone is questioning Ronaldo is more successful in the CL, but then just call it Ronaldo & Messi in court - Champions league edition. Leave the framing to Fox news.
Selective to back up his argument.

Not only does Messi have a better goals per game ratio, he also has a better assist per game ratio, better shot conversion ratio, better successful dribbles per game ratio, better successful passes per game ratio. Etc etc
 

Pocho

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It’s not bizarre. Messi has been at Barca since age 13. He’s struck a fine chemistry with the majority of Barca players that graduated from La Masia. That must count for something.

Besides, Messi has always had 3 of the top 5 players in the world as team mates while Ronaldo had to put up with O’Shea & Alan Smith in the midfield. This trend continued throughout his time in Spain when Xavi & Iniesta were the best players in Europe apart from Messi/Ronaldo.


Ronaldo came to England and pretty much won everything including Ballon d’Or. He conquered England after 6 years. He went to Spain and he’s conquered Spain. What more do you want from him?

Messi can’t even win Copa America in Argentina. A feat regular players like Cavani, Suarez, Forlan, Sanchez, Robinho, etc have with aplomb. Ronaldo won the Euros - a much more tougher competition to win considering Portugal’s strength among the footballing nations in Europe.

It’s fair to say Messi hasn’t won anything if he’s not wearing Barca’s shirt. Ronaldo has won with Man Utd, Real Madrid and Portugal. Only Barca fans or those who are mesmerised by meaningless dribbles think Messi is the best player. If we swap what both players have achieved for club/country, this wouldn’t be a debate.


Ronaldo >>>> Messi!
:lol:
 

Zehner

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Wtf is up with you and your well balanced, reasoned, intelligent and honest posts? This is the Messi v Ronaldo thread, get that shit out of here. ;)
I'm a German, you know. We don't do jokes, banter, shit talk or anything related to humour over here ;)
 

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It’s not similar.
Ronaldo is the only player who has scored more goals in the KO state of the CL than the group stage. The biggest games are his bread & butter.

Since the departure of Cristiano Ronaldo from Man Utd, he has scored 104 CL Goals, while the entire Man Utd team since 2009 have scored only 99 goals.

Stop disrespecting Cristiano. He is god!
This is insane to be honest :lol:

So is that last part, but meh :p
 

Daysleeper

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Real Madrid would’ve had a hard time getting past both PSG and Juve without Ronaldo imo.

Also the Curry and Lebron comparison is slightly off, since Curry hasn’t been around for the same amount of time tha Lebron has. And honestly if i were to draw parallels, I’d say Messi would be Curry here (since there are very few who can do what he does) and Ronaldo Lebron.
No, Ronaldo is an elite scorer, Messi can hurt you in many more ways than Ronaldo. Messi is all around fantastic, Ronaldo is more of a poacher. One is an elite goal scorer while the other is an elite goal scorer and playmaker. Messi’s vision in the pitch is much more like LeBron than Curry.

Curry hasn’t been around as long but he hasn’t even been the best player in the Finals, he’s not gonna finish his career as the second best player of all time worst case like LeBron is. Durant can even be argued as being better than Curry.
 
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No, Ronaldo is an elite scorer, Messi can hurt you in many more ways than Ronaldo.......
Why does this myth persist? Messi hurts you in one of the three ways that he is a specialist in. With his elite dribbling, elite passing and his elite vision. Ronaldo can hit you from range, in the air, can dribble you at clsoe to an elite level when he choses and has very good vision. Ronaldo is actually the one who has more ways with which to hurt you whilst, Messi is so good at his 3 ways, he is plain unstoppable with them. Even if you know they are coming.


Furthermore its pure myth that Ronaldo is just an elite scorer. In this seasons champions league for example he has created one less chance, than Messi, assisted more and has scored more. That tallies with being more than just an elite scorer. People really need to respect both as the greatest multi role attackers in their era. Messi may be the superior play maker, but that doesn't make Ronaldo merely an elite scorer. Even at his current age he is still much more than just an elite scorer.
 

Daysleeper

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Why does this myth persist? Messi hurts you in one of the three ways that he is a specialist in. With his elite dribbling, elite passing and his elite vision. Ronaldo can hit you from range, in the air, can dribble you at clsoe to an elite level when he choses and has very good vision. Ronaldo is actually the one who has more ways with which to hurt you whilst, Messi is so good at his 3 ways, he is plain unstoppable with them. Even if you know they are coming.


Furthermore its pure myth that Ronaldo is just an elite scorer. In this seasons champions league for example he has created one less chance, than Messi, assisted more and has scored more. That tallies with being more than just an elite scorer. People really need to respect both as the greatest multi role attackers in their era. Messi may be the superior play maker, but that doesn't make Ronaldo merely an elite scorer. Even at his current age he is still much more than just an elite scorer.
Ronaldo is a poor dribbler, has one of the worst take ons in La Liga, scores far less from outside the box than Messi. He is good from within 6 yards, it’s not a myth at all. Give Ronaldo the ball in the middle of the pitch and no one is worried. Compare the types of goal Messi has scored this season to Ronaldo and all the angles he’s able to score from and it’s far more varied than Ronaldo. Ronaldo is a poacher and a damn good one, Messi is elite in many more ways on a pitch than Ronaldo is. And this is with Ronaldo playing much closer to goal than Messi. Someone posted a video of Ronaldo’s assists in CL this year and many of them were from defections and even a couple were misplaced places where he got lucky. No one is worried about Ronaldo outside of the box, everyone is worried about Messi all over the pitch as he can go through your team if you’re not careful.

No myths at all, and not a slight to Ronaldo, but 90% of his goals are headers or shots within 6 yards, Messi’s can do so much more with the ball even if Ronaldo is obviously much better in the air
 

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No, Ronaldo is an elite scorer, Messi can hurt you in many more ways than Ronaldo. Messi is all around fantastic, Ronaldo is more of a poacher. One is an elite goal scorer while the other is an elite goal scorer and playmaker. Messi’s vision in the pitch is much more like LeBron than Curry.

Curry hasn’t been around as long but he hasn’t even been the best player in the Finals, he’s not gonna finish his career as the second best player of all time worst case like LeBron is. Durant can even be argued as being better than Curry.
Curry’s on court vision and IQ is on a comparable level to Lebron’s. Curry has the better handles and can score in several different ways because what he can do with the ball, no one else can. In that sense he is very Messi like. To label Curry as just an elite scorer is way too unfair on him. Curry’s allround greatness stems from his skills with the ball and to insinuate that Durant might be better than him is again doing disservice to his uniqueness and what he brings to the court. Without Curry the Warriors are a completely different team; they just play on another godly level with Curry leading them.

Lebron on the other hand is the most physically dominant player in his sport. His longevity is thanks to his off the court dedication to his physique and health. He has also adapted his game over the years to get the most out of himself and to put his team in the best position to win. Lebron’s allround game (minus the defence) is second to none, and his GOAT level productivity on the court stems from his aggressive and physically domineering style of play- which combined with his regime make him very Ronaldo like.
 

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Why would we judge Ronaldo on what he can do in midfield? He was a wonderful winger ffs! He killed teams on the counter or even opening up space.
Did you only start watching Ronaldo at 31 buddy? Thats the only explanation for your analysis here.

@Daysleeper
 

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Why are Messi's league titles discounted in this debate? Is it because that's the only way the case for Ronaldo being more accomplished exists?
 

iamherenow

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There is this nonsense spreading that without Ronaldo,portugal will be quite "okay" but without messi,argentina will be shit.
Their respective countries will be meh without both players.
 

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There is this nonsense spreading that without Ronaldo,portugal will be quite "okay" but without messi,argentina will be shit.
Their respective countries will be meh without both players.
I think Argentina without Messi would easily beat Portugal without Ronaldo to be honest. They're painfully average. Hell, even with Ronaldo we beat the 0-3 :p
 

Ishdalar

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Yesterday we all enjoyed Ronaldo.

Tonight it's Messi's turn :drool:
The best part of this rilvary, is that yesterday we got to see one of the best goals in UCL history, and today we can tune into the Barcelona game thinking "let's see what Messi does to trump Ronaldo today".

I know 95% he's not going to score a goal like the one Ronaldo just did or put 3 on Roma, but just that these two players can lit that doubt in our brain of "one of them just made history, let's see if the other outdoes him" it's a gift for any football fan.
 
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