[m1y2]

Pirlo, Busquets, alonso and xavi say hi!

all these players have always had much better movement or dribbling than Carrick, how can they say hi? Carrick's been definitely one of the slowest player who ever played for United. It's not a coincidence that after Scholes came out of reitrement bossed it again at 37 while carrickbeing at his peaked hide in his shadow. Our midfield has been also underwhelming when Carrick was our best mdifielder. Now we have Herrera/schneiderlin, Sweinsteigger and one can say it's quite a difference, we have a midfield, don't you think?

 

[RooneyLegend]

Xavi skins players left right and centre! The other three are also a lot more nimble than Carrick, bar maybe Alonso.

None of them ran much with or without the ball which is what the post was about.

 

[RooneyLegend]

all these players have always had much better movement or dribbling than Carrick, how can they say hi? Carrick's been definitely one of the slowest player who ever played for United. It's not a coincidence that after Scholes came out of reitrement bossed it again at 37 while carrickbeing at his peaked hide in his shadow. Our midfield has been also underwhelming when Carrick was our best mdifielder. Now we have Herrera/schneiderlin, Sweinsteigger and one can say it's quite a difference, we have a midfield, don't you think?

Those players are slow with and without the ball though which is what I was contending. Sure, they (apart from Alonso) can manipulate the ball in tight spaces significantly better than carrick.

When our midfield was underwhelming when he was the best midfielder that wasn't at all his fault. Did you see the sods he ways playing with there?

 

[Alock1]

Reminds me of his performances under Moyes. I don't believe that in the last few months he's lost the ability to play at the top level at all. He was great as a methodical player not someone who relied on pace or sharpness.

A combination of bad form and confidence perhaps? Due to the increased midfield competition.

I also have a strong suspicion that he isn't playing for the manager either. The hiding away, the penalty miss - he did go to Van Gaal with Rooney and question the style. Not much to go on I know.

 

[Borys]

I don’t agree that “he’s controlling the tempo of the game” is a fair assessment. If he did, he would sometimes quicken things up, but instead he ALWAYS keeps things on low speed.

He’s very different player to Xavi/Alonso/Pirlo.

 

[m1y2]

Those players are slow with and without the ball though which is what I was contending. Sure, they (apart from Alonso) can manipulate the ball in tight spaces significantly better than carrick.

When our midfield was underwhelming when he was the best midfielder that wasn't at all his fault. Did you see the sods he ways playing with there?

Of course he couldn't play on his own but if he was as good palyer as some people have always been saying he was we wouldn't see that big difference now, don't you think, players who can actually run is actually refreshing, while of course having other good tatributes other than good movement and stamina... Alsonso can come close to Carrick but he was always tougher player than Carrick, better tackler... don't rate either of them that high

 

[RooneyLegend]

Of course he couldn't play on his own but if he was as good palyer as some people have always been saying he was we wouldn't see that big difference now, don't you think, players who can actually run is actually refreshing, while of course having other good tatributes other than good movement and stamina... Alsonso can come close to Carrick but he was always tougher player than Carrick, better tackler... don't rate either of them that high

Barca fans had been calling for Xavi to get the chop. Juve fans had been calling for Pirlo to get the chop. Both those players I think we'll agree were significantly better players than any carrick, yet by this age they also suffered dramatic drops of form.
Pep lost it earlier and got the chop, so did redondo and Albertini. All these players were outstanding, and better than him but got the chop and ended up in obscure leagues or not doing much with their careers after they were done.

He's just done at the highest level of the game. He's been a great servant but honestly, when glacial mids lose a few yards, the writing is on the wall.

However this doesn't mean we should re-write the past and say stuff like our midfield should've been better if he was that good as that's ridiculous. Football is a team sport and I think some lose vision of that. Great midfields are about partnerships. When scholes was running around with the djemba's and klebersons of this world he didn't look all that. Here's a better one, in Pirlos last few years at Milan he carried the brunt of the blame by the fans, he switches over to Juve which complements him with better quality in midfield and wins league player of the year back to back and is in the serie a team of the year 3 years straight.

 

[izec]

He doesnt like the philosophy nor does it suit his game. Sits on the bench lately, everybody can see he is desinterested and doesnt try/care anymore.

 

[pocco]

I think Carrick's poor form has a lot to do with Van Gaal. Since we've bought Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger he's been pretty much a forgotten man. He's better than this.

 

[m1y2]

I think Carrick's poor form has a lot to do with Van Gaal. Since we've bought Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger he's been pretty much a forgotten man. He's better than this.

If this is Schneiderlin and Sweinsteigger, than he certainly is not better and that's not judging only by this game. if he deserves better than he shouldn't show us how "interested" he was today.. simply terrible considering he should be the one who takes the responsibility. He let Van Gaal down so he won't favour him no more since now and it's only a plus for team which should be finally build around modern dynamic players..

 

[m1y2]

Barca fans had been calling for Xavi to get the chop. Juve fans had been calling for Pirlo to get the chop. Both those players I think we'll agree were significantly better players than any carrick, yet by this age they also suffered dramatic drops of form.
Pep lost it earlier and got the chop, so did redondo and Albertini. All these players were outstanding, and better than him but got the chop and ended up in obscure leagues or not doing much with their careers after they were done.

He's just done at the highest level of the game. He's been a great servant but honestly, when glacial mids lose a few yards, the writing is on the wall.

However this doesn't mean we should re-write the past and say stuff like our midfield should've been better if he was that good as that's ridiculous. Football is a team sport and I think some lose vision of that. Great midfields are about partnerships. When scholes was running around with the djemba's and klebersons of this world he didn't look all that. Here's a better one, in Pirlos last few years at Milan he carried the brunt of the blame by the fans, he switches over to Juve which complements him with better quality in midfield and wins league player of the year back to back and is in the serie a team of the year 3 years straight.

WHy do you mention Djemba djemba, he barely played here, KLeberson was strieker IIRC and he hardly played either.. He played with Scholes and Fletcher, Hargreaves, than it became Cleverley and Anderson, even though before the big injury problems of the two and some confidence problems of Cleverley's they were on the verge to making it here, nd then it was only then when we started to struggle, everbody would say that our midfield was by far the weekest form all top teams after Scholes finally left...Carrick being the main man. Does it say anything? I think yes? If he was half good everbody says he could bring the midfield to another level.. but if a palyer is good when other players around him are good, it doesn't strike me as a n atribute of a top player who rather raises game of other palyers around him. He never looked like leader either and that was shown today..

And of course players age, I am grateful to him for good memories, his calm presence and superconcistency will be remembered but let's nto get carried away he should never be mentioned in the same sentence with the likes of Pirlo, Xavi.

Now we are going to see the difference..

 

[RooneyLegend]

WHy do you mention Djemba djemba, he barely played here, KLeberson was strieker IIRC and he hardly played either.. He played with Scholes and Fletcher, Hargreaves, than it became Cleverley and Anderson, even though before the big injury problems of the two and some confidence problems of Cleverley's they were on the verge to making it here, nd then it was only then when we started to struggle, everbody would say that our midfield was by far the weekest form all top teams after Scholes finally left...Carrick being the main man. Does it say anything? I think yes? If he was half good everbody says he could bring the midfield to another level.. but if a palyer is good when other players around him are good, it doesn't strike me as a n atribute of a top player who rather raises game of other palyers around him. He never looked like leader either and that was shown today..

And of course players age, I am grateful to him for good memories, his calm presence and superconcistency will be remembered but let's nto get carried away he should never be mentioned in the same sentence with the likes of Pirlo, Xavi.

Now we are going to see the difference..

When keane was sold, sir alex played a myriad of midfield partnerships with scholes, and at no point did it look like scholes could carry it. If he couldn't, why would carrick be able to?

Also despite carrick being the only midfielder with some recognisable quality, we still managed to compete well. In fact, he was one of the main reasons we won the '13 title. How quickly we forget. Anderson can't cut it in brazil and clevs is now a proven mid table player. Fletch couldn't spend a minute away from the loo. These guys were never good enough.

Before Scholes had even left our midfield was a shambles. We had a 40 year old winger that usurped scholes there.

I wouldn't go as far as saying our midfield was by far the worst of the top teams in the prem. Prem mids have been lacking in quality for ages now hence they get shown up in europe. City used to have Barry and Toure. While Toure is class, Barry never was. Arsenal had Fabregas, song and at times wilshere. Wilshere had to carry them when they faced barca as the others went awol. Song couldn't defend. Fabregas hasn't had the bottle in ages. Chelsea's mids were old and past it. Essien had his injuries, lampard was old too, mikel has never been quality.

We got away with it cause everyone else had the same issue really.

 

[Stack]

Im a Carrick fan, one of my favourite players. I think some of the criticism in these forums is over the top. However I hope we replace him this summer, not because I want to see him go but its time for us to replace a 34 year old player with some high end younger talent to keep this team evolving in a positive direction. Hope he has some really good games for us before the end of the season but hope he leaves us at the end of the season. Top player for us over the years, will be sad when he does finally finish.

 

[marjen]

Could still be his usual slow start to the season-thing.

He's 34 though and has proved that he's behind BFS and Schneiderlin in the pecking order, rightly so.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Could still be his usual slow start to the season-thing.

He's 34 though and has proved that he's behind BFS and Schneiderlin in the pecking order, rightly so.

He's usually firing on all cylinders by October, though.

 

[marjen]

He's usually firing on all cylinders by October, though.

I seem to remember him being poor until mid-november a couple of seasons? Might be my mind playing tricks on me.

Either way Schneiderlin's great so that's one position I'm not really concerned about.

 

[Zoo]

He doesn't start regularly now and isn't going to get a run of games to find his rhythm.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I seem to remember him being poor until mid-november a couple of seasons? Might be my mind playing tricks on me.

Either way Schneiderlin's great so that's one position I'm not really concerned about.

Think it was Fergie himself that nominated October as the month when you'll start seeing the best of Carrick.

He's not getting any chance to play his way into form so, in a way, it makes sense it takes longer. I agree Schneiderlin's great but we do miss the speed in transition that Carrick's passing can provide. Although that could well be down to Van Gaal's preferred approach as much as anything else.

 

[Yorkeontop]

He's down the pecking order at the moment and it's going to stay that way.

 

[Kag]

Only Schneiderlin will have had more Premier League minutes in midfield this season. The excuse of games is folly.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Does anybody know what he was trying to do with his penalty last night? Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looked like something in between a Pirlo chip and a Rugby conversion...?

 

[Cassidy]

Only Schneiderlin will have had more Premier League minutes in midfield this season. The excuse of games is folly.

This.

 

[Hed Zitin]

He's always needed a run of games to get going. Fergie even said he started playing to his fullest after Christmas.

Funnily enough he didn't need to do that last season. When he played, he played well even with all the injuries getting in the way.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Only Schneiderlin will have had more Premier League minutes in midfield this season. The excuse of games is folly.

Schweinsteiger as well.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Only Schneiderlin will have had more Premier League minutes in midfield this season. The excuse of games is folly.

Schweinsteiger as well.

Exactly. In previous seasons he would start every game and build up a decent run of games before hitting his stride a few months into the season. This season is clearly different, with all the rotation in central midfield. Hardly outrageous (or even folly) to suggest this might have a part to play in him still being well below par.

 

[Kag]

Schweinsteiger as well.

Yeah, I've just double checked, and up until the City game they'd played roughly the same amount of minutes, but Bastian has more now.

Both have started six league games, Bastian being subbed on four times, Carrick the three. There's not a lot in it. Plenty of time to impress either way.

 

[WR10]

Still by far our best forward passer of the ball, with Blind being second and Schweinsteiger being 3rd. He and blind add a whole dimension to our play with midfield splitting passes to our forward players, triggering a direct final third play. It's a shame all our forwards are not like martial and don't capitalize on these passes. RVP was brilliant at using Carrick's passes

 

[Kag]

Exactly. In previous seasons he would start every game and build up a decent run of games before hitting his stride a few months into the season. This season is clearly different, with all the rotation in central midfield. Hardly outrageous (or even folly) to suggest this might have a part to play in him still being well below par.

Rotation has been predominantly sensible. Van Gaal has managed both Carrick and Bastian well given their age and recent fitness records, with a younger and fitter Schneiderlin getting the lion share of minutes.

Carrick has had ample opportunity to impress and he hasn't. Personally, I don't think the two man midfield suits his game as it stands. He's better when playing at the base, albeit he had no interest in demonstrating that last night.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Yeah, I've just double checked, and up until the City game they'd played roughly the same amount of minutes, but Bastian has more now.

Both have started six league games, Bastian being subbed on four times, Carrick the three. There's not a lot in it. Plenty of time to impress either way.

Schweinsteiger has played 25% more than Carrick, I'd hardly class that as not a lot. I don't know why you're using just PL minutes anyway, all competitions work to getting in form and Schweinsteiger has played 243 minutes or 33% more minutes than Carrick. That is quite a lot.

 

[Kag]

Schweinsteiger has played 25% more than Carrick, I'd hardly class that as not a lot. I don't know why you're using just PL minutes anyway, all competitions work to getting in form and Schweinsteiger has played 243 minutes or 33% more minutes than Carrick. That is quite a lot.

Schweinsteiger is a better player, as well as being three years younger. That he has more minutes isn't really surprising.

Plus, ignoring last night's game, Bastian has started the last three matches, with Carrick barely featuring. He's pulling away and cementing his place in the side now, so I'd expect that percentage to grow.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Schweinsteiger is a better player, as well as being three years younger. That he has more minutes isn't really surprising.

Plus, ignoring last night's game, Bastian has started the last three matches, with Carrick barely featuring. He's pulling away and cementing his place in the side now, so I'd expect that percentage to grow.

You seem to be mistaking pointing out that Carrick has featured relatively infrequently this season (compared to usual) for criticism of the decisions behind this.

 

[Kag]

You seem to be mistaking pointing out that Carrick has featured relatively infrequently this season (compared to usual) for criticism of the decisions behind this.

Ultimately, I don't think he's played infrequently as you do. At the age of 34, he's still featured in nine out of our ten league games, starting six of those. He started against Arsenal and Liverpool, too; a show of faith, surely.

He was heralded as one of our best players last season in spite of only playing 18 league games. I'm playing devils advocate a little, but the lack of match rhythm didn't prevent him from making positives contributions to the team then, so why now?

 

[Acole9]

His performances have annoyed me so far this season. I think he's actually most lowest ranked player in the index which I'm not surprised about because he's been crap. He's been a good player for us but if this carries on I think we should let him leave in the summer.

 

[m1y2]

Still by far our best forward passer of the ball, with Blind being second and Schweinsteiger being 3rd. He and blind add a whole dimension to our play with midfield splitting passes to our forward players, triggering a direct final third play. It's a shame all our forwards are not like martial and don't capitalize on these passes. RVP was brilliant at using Carrick's passes

Its like saying Rooney still can hit the ball and score screamers... he can't because in today's game he doesn't have time for that. YOu'd absolutely expect Carrick to boss the game agains Boro home, he isn't able to do that when we play top and well pressing teams like Arsenal. He's completely out of his depth.. what more can you say, Scholes would ddefo be the best passer in the team these days...

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Our next few games are against side we would be expecting to dominate in possession so I hope Carrick gets some time on the pitch despite him not having a good start to the season. Our best passer and I feel we are missing someone who plays balls forward.

 

[K2K]

Our next few games are against side we would be expecting to dominate in possession so I hope Carrick gets some time on the pitch despite him not having a good start to the season. Our best passer and I feel we are missing someone who plays balls forward.

Unless BFS needs a rest, it'll be hard for Carrick now. I think this could be his last season here.

 

[RedMachine03]

Good first half so far, made some quality passes.

 

[kps88]

Thought he was terrific; constantly looking to pass forwards for a change. Looks like we're seeing his usual slow start to the season come to an end.

 

[Jagga7]

Thought he was brilliant 2nd half. He always looks to play forward and early, something other players lack.

 

[Raw]

His forward passes were brilliant. I really hope he's just been off form this season because we could really do with an on form Carrick.