[Irrational.]

That would have been an extremely harsh sending off. None of those challenges were even remotely dangerous.

You're forgetting that fat shit Jon Moss was in charge. All he needs is the slightest hint of an excuse.

 

[meamth]

I'm grateful to finally see another talisman growing in Manchester United team.

Long it may last!

 

[Sylar]

His discipline after the talking to by the ref was fantastic. (I have a feeling Mike Dean sends him off )

Great to see him do his stuff. And get the goal and assists he deserves. His numbers last season were a let down but he still had a lot of good games. Now hes adding to it (and it helps when others finish of his chances).

Fun to watch him play football.

 

[Nick7]

Was good today. Had a poor 5 minutes or so, but bounced straight back and was very composed.

 

[Hed Zitin]

One thing he did really well was calm down and make sure he didn't get sent off. Could of easily happened that early in the game.

 

[Akshay]

Grew into the game and I loved his forward forays, especially down the flanks. Really making use of the freedom Matic affords him. Beautiful chip for the goal, and the header that led to Bailly scoring was very good too.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Double figures this season.

 

[ManUtd1999]

Was good today. Had a poor 5 minutes or so, but bounced straight back and was very composed.

You got to give him credit for that.

If he's free to go forward, he should be able to net more goals. We have to figure out the exact lineup that allows him do so throughout the game.

 

[Shark]

He's a fecking incredible player, still can't believe we managed to wrestle him back from Juventus. You just know he's going to tear up the league.

 

[Brwned]

After a clumsy 30 minutes, he was very good, growing into the game with a more mature approach to tackling and some very clinical attacking play. He is clearly benefitting from Matic as an anchor and Lukaku stretching opposition defenses creating him space to do his magic. Very good he is also scoring which contributes to his confidence.

I enjoyed his performance, but again let's wait til mid-November (after we've played other top 6 sides + CL games) to see if he has made the next step up from last season into becoming genuinely and consistently world class game changer. Fair?

Genuinely I think that's unfair in a lot of ways. You don't need any more information than you already have to recognise that you set unrealistic expectations for him, which neither past legends nor recent megastars were able to live upto.

Spoiler: Expectations

So you guys keep on telling me. But You have nothing to base your view on.

And if he does suddenly become good, it in no way diminishes how over adulated and over rated he has been by his fanboys. My post is a perfectly reasonable assessment of Pogba's game today.

If he becomes world class, big fcuking deal, we paid a handsome price for that privilege. What is clear is that he is likely costing us a top 4 position as a Manchester United no 8 should be winning games for us, as opposed to holding us back.

Utter shite.

All that's needed to support that view is a fair analysis of his talent. It's remarkably obvious that he's extremely talented.

Do you think Roy Keane never lost his head and threw away games when he was young? Feck me he was still doing it in his later years. They're at very different ends of the spectrum mentality-wise and yet they still had some of the same issues that all younger players have. Even the exceptional talents bought for record fees.

At almost exactly the same age as Pogba is now (23 going on 24), our beloved Roy Keane got 3 red cards in 6 months back in '95, one in a semi-final and another in a match against the then title holders Blackburn. Obviously getting sent off is a much more manly way to have a meltdown than continuously trying to be creative and decisive but fluffing his lines. Sometimes that's all that matters. Silly perceptions.

It's also worth pointing out he was the league's most expensive player in that team that, to use a caf favourite, bottled the league to Blackburn in the league following an awful March and April period where they couldn't get a win against Spurs, Liverpool, Leeds or Chelsea. They followed that up with the tragedy that was that West Ham game and the loss in the FA Cup final to Everton. If that happened now Roy Keane would be getting torn apart given he's an easy target as the most expensive player. It'd be ridiculous to do that now, though.

We like to deify our past heroes and tear apart our future heroes but you can't escape the facts. All of the things you criticise Pogba for were applicable to our #16 (or our #8 in position) back in the day, but people are quick to forget that. There's so much drama around Pogba. Who gives a feck about the hype. The hype's in your head. It's your perception of it. Forget about all that and just look at the player for what he is: an exceptional talent who still has a lot to learn. Exactly like our record signing over 2 decades ago.

You've tried the deflect the issue with a totally irrelevant essay on Roy Keane, whom I never mentioned in any of my posts? You've been studying Denald Bigly too much. ... see how I did that

You keep telling me that Pogba is an exceptional talent. At the beginning of the season, it was because he did not have a pre season. Then it was because he was settling in. It then became that he had to play no 10 in a midfield 3. Then we were told that that it was no 8 and the team has to be moulded around him. Now we are being told he he a 'young un and still learning' and we'll have to wait til some other mythical stage in the future. (Im sure I forgot out some other 'explanations' this season).

You describe him as 'an exceptional talent who still has a lot to learn'. Ive not seen him learn anything this season. If anything he has regressed with an arrogant opinion of his own talent, trying thing she cant achieve and costing us in the process.

As I wrote before, if Pogba is an exceptional talent, big deal, we have paid for that privilege. It doesn't take a very astute or brave analysis of football to hope that world record signing is a world class player! I'm deeply concerned we have a bought a show pony, or at the very least a player who is costing us dearly this season.

You mentioned him less than a week ago and your OTT posts still reek of the same conscious ignorance. It's not a tangent it's another way of making a real point.

Stick Vierra, Keane or Yaya into any team or set of team mates and they'd turn up in big games and made it work.

The evidence is right there for you that wasn't the case. At the same age Keane individually bottled it in a cup semi and bottled it against the champions, and was part of a team that bottled the league and the cup. All in the space of 6 months. The standards you're setting for him are absurd because you're comparing him against a mythical version of your hero(es).

It's exactly like this statement from months ago:

The likes of Suarez, Bale and Ronaldo hit the ground running when they moved for similar fee's. Thats the benchmark. Else who did we pay that price?

It's totally wrong. The benchmark you've set is your own, based on wrong information and false perceptions. Yet when that was pointed out to you in very plain terms, you just ignored it because it doesn't suit your narrative or agenda:

Bale had scored once and assisted none by Halloween, 7 games in. He looked like a complete outsider for much of the season too - technically limited, very poor understanding with his team-mates and lacking a clear role that benefited everyone.

By Christmas time Suarez had scored just 3 goals, and his 1st goal in La Liga was on December 20th. No goals in his first 7 La Liga games.

There are mitigating factors for both of those, though. Suárez started the season late because of his biting ban, and Bale was only fully introduced to the starting lineup by late October. The reality is neither did hit the ground running. Bale was actually protected in the beginning.

The major difference here is that they weren't the most important player in the team, they weren't even in the top 3...they could be on the periphery and their team would still win. Pogba isn't being afforded that luxury. He's been thrust in at the deep end and expected to be a superstar within minutes. I don't understand why you don't see that as unrealistic and silly.

Let's not forget that a month into Bale's time at Madrid, you were saying this...

Yep its a very strange market when Bale costs £80m and Ozil £40m. Its almost certifiably mad.

...and many agreed. Bale wasn't a superstar from the off. Most players aren't. The fact you keep expecting them to be and they aren't is your issue not theirs.

As a result, you criticised him exceptionally harshly from a false starting point and overlooked his vast array of talents:

One of the most insipid and technically incompetent performances I've ever seen from a Manchester United central midfielder.

Ball control and positioning was poor, continually took 3 touches when one was enough, stupid egoistic Hollywood passes never came off and his short passing was just lazy. But worse for me was how he let his head drop and just allowed the game to pass him by.

He is meant to be our central midfielder who takes control of the game. Only thing he takes care of right now is his haircut.

I keep being promised or chastised that I'm wrong about him. I doubt I've ever been more correct about a player in my life.

Whether he goes on to consistently dominate big games will dictate whether he goes on to being perhaps our best midfielder ever, with the exception of the eternal Bobby Charlton, but you don't need to see anything more to recognise that his remerkable array of talents define him as an exceptional talent.

How many United players in our illustrious history can you think of that could do all of those things to such a high level? At most you could argue a handful. I would argue there is only one in the last half-century. Incisive through balls and raking passes, extreme bursts and constant running, delicate chips and effortless long rangers, bullet headers and beautiful chest control, intelligent interceptions and hard tackles, clever flicks and dazzling dribbles...

Come on Sammsky, surely it's time to acknowledge there's something there?

 

[Adnan]

Thought he was very good in the first half, unlike what some have said. Along with Rashford he was our only threat in the first half. It was his dangerous crosses that led to the corner that we scored from. He had a big influence on our play and was the heart beat of the team. Very good performance.

 

[Vashu]

I was never in doubt regarding Pogba eventually showing his abilities in a desirable manner. He's not there yet to showcase all his talents and notch up motm awards game after game, but even last season with his inconsistency he was the only reliable player to make things happen on the pitch, our lone creative spark. The beautiful thing is that he's still going to improve and I'm quite sure that he'll get into double digits in assists as well as goals charts.

He's a no. 10 made in heaven and I don't get why aren't we setting the team up for him. These 2 highscoring games are awesome evidence of that. We've dropped ineffectual Mata on the right wing 2 times in 75' minute, brought in Fellaini to move Pogba further up the field. The result is shining bright like sun, in combined time of 30+ minutes we've scored 5 goals and Paul himself got on the scoresheet twice. He shouldn't be burdened with too many tasks playing between attack and defense, instead we ought to make him a focal point of our attack. Permanently, not temporarily.

 

[ManUtd1999]

I was never in doubt regarding Pogba eventually showing his abilities in a desirable manner. He's not there yet to showcase all his talents and notch up motm awards game after game, but even last season with his inconsistency he was the only reliable player to make things happen on the pitch, our lone creative spark. The beautiful thing is that he's still going to improve and I'm quite sure that he'll get into double digits in assists as well as goals charts.

He's a no. 10 made in heaven and I don't get why aren't we setting the team up for him. These 2 highscoring games are awesome evidence of that. We've dropped ineffectual Mata on the right wing 2 times in 75' minute, brought in Fellaini to move Pogba further up the field. The result is shining bright like sun, in combined time of 30+ minutes we've scored 5 goals and Paul himself got on the scoresheet twice. He shouldn't be burdened with too many tasks playing between attack and defense, instead we ought to make him a focal point of our attack. Permanently, not temporarily.

My point exactly from the last post.

Making Pogba busy with defensive work is warranted against the top teams of England/Europe, but not on a regular basis. He should be free to do what he can do best.

 

[WoodysWallet]

He was frustrating at times today, but he's hit the bar again, which Bailly has simply touched in. Then he's made a great run with a neat finish to score the third.

He's a brilliant player, and I'd rather put up with irregular inconsistencies, than regular, consistently boring sideways and backward ten yard passes any day.

 

[Jib]

I was never in doubt regarding Pogba eventually showing his abilities in a desirable manner. He's not there yet to showcase all his talents and notch up motm awards game after game, but even last season with his inconsistency he was the only reliable player to make things happen on the pitch, our lone creative spark. The beautiful thing is that he's still going to improve and I'm quite sure that he'll get into double digits in assists as well as goals charts.

He's a no. 10 made in heaven and I don't get why aren't we setting the team up for him. These 2 highscoring games are awesome evidence of that. We've dropped ineffectual Mata on the right wing 2 times in 75' minute, brought in Fellaini to move Pogba further up the field. The result is shining bright like sun, in combined time of 30+ minutes we've scored 5 goals and Paul himself got on the scoresheet twice. He shouldn't be burdened with too many tasks playing between attack and defense, instead we ought to make him a focal point of our attack. Permanently, not temporarily.

This.
His best season was in 15-16 with Juventus and he played with Mandzukic ( or Morata ) and Dybala in front of him and 2 midfielders behind him.

He never played in a midfield 2 in four season with Juventus... and he never played with an AM in front of him too.. he was the AM !

 

[ManUtd1999]

This.
His best season was in 15-16 with Juventus and he played with Mandzukic ( or Morata ) and Dybala in front of him and 2 midfielders behind him.

He never played in a midfield 2 in four season with Juventus... and he never played with an AM in front of him too.. he was the AM !

Agreed.

The question then becomes: should we drop Mata for Herrera/Fellaini?

 

[ottosec]

Does his header for the first goal not count as an assist?

 

[Jib]

Agreed.

The question then becomes: should we drop Mata for Herrera/Fellaini?

Yes.

 

[ash_86]

Less flair, more clicincal. Delighted with his through ball for martial goal. Learning from his Real Madrid mistakes

 

[Lawman]

He's a fecking incredible player, still can't believe we managed to wrestle him back from Juventus. You just know he's going to tear up the league.

This 100% for me the best player in the league.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Stats look great thus far, 2 goals 2 assists in 3.

 

[Pace Abuser]

Does his header for the first goal not count as an assist?

Yes. It makes it 2 assists.

 

[ottosec]

Yes. It makes it 2 assists.

My bad, for some reason I thought that he had an assist last week, but he didn't.

 

[OldTrevil]

The goal was pure sex

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Sensational finish.

Grew into the game after a slow start.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The goal was pure sex

It was the impudent finish of a world class striker.

 

[Acole9]

I'm just glad there wasn't a card happy referee officiating the match otherwise he could well have seen red. He showed good maturity and despite all the dancing etc. he is quite a level headed guy.

 

[Escobar]

Starting to get into the groove

 

[OneUnited24]

This.
His best season was in 15-16 with Juventus and he played with Mandzukic ( or Morata ) and Dybala in front of him and 2 midfielders behind him.

He never played in a midfield 2 in four season with Juventus... and he never played with an AM in front of him too.. he was the AM !

I completely agree. We need to have Matic and Herrera (or Fellani) behind him and the front three in front of him. The past two games hes come alive when hes not played so deep.

That said i think against teams like Swansea and West Ham playing him further back allows us to have an extra attacker and in tight games that can be key. Basically, in tougher games play him in a three. Against the lower down teams play him in a two. I do feel the more he plays with Matic the more in sync he'll be and wont sit as deep.

 

[OL29]

He finished last season strongly too in terms of productivity. 4 goals and 2 assists in his last 5 official games for us if I'm not mistaken. Good to see him putting up the numbers his performances merited.

 

[Dominos]

I said he'd score a lot this season. Last season he almost scored every single game without fail, most of them very good clear cut chances too, his finishing was just poor with some bad luck with the woodwork. It showed he was getting in the positions to score though basically every game.

His finishing was never going to be as bad this season, his final tally could surprise a few I reckon, he might not quite reach Lampard level of productivity but I think he has the game that could see him score a silly amount of goals for a central midfielder.

 

[Sigma]

His goal reminded me of this:


(First game of 2013/14 Moyes season)

 

[Manchester Dan]

Good FF returns so far this season.

 

[OldTrevil]

It was the impudent finish of a world class striker.

Great that he shut down the Swansea fans after they had given him stick and did it with such a class goal.

 

[Wade3]

He really benefits from Ibrahimovic's departure. With Lukaku not dropping so deep, he has a lot more room to operate in and it's benefiting him greatly.

 

[Minimalist]

I hope United win something major before the inevitable strong Real Madrid rumours start up. Hopefully that isn't a serious worry for a few seasons yet.

 

[Handré1990]

I've heard quite a few people talk about reserving judgement on how good he actually is until he does it against top teams. I think it's important to put this into perspective. Pogba isn't going to dominate top teams on his own, very few players can. The whole team, or at least 7-8 players have to have good days to be able to. For me he showed enough last season to convince me he's world class, Pogba was certainly not the problem last season. If we grow as a team, Pogba will soon have plenty of great games vs top teams imo.

There are moments in every single game he plays, where he does some outrageous skill move to free himself up, some impossible pass, or even just holding off two-three professional athletes by using his insane physique, that leaves me flabbergasted. I used to miss 70% or more of our games in LVGs last season due to boredom. Not that I didn't have it on, just that I struggled with paying attention to the game. Now I don't want to miss a second, and these are some important reasons why, I'm simply entertained.

 

[SirAF]

Does his header for the first goal not count as an assist?

Yes, it does.

 

[Litch]

90m today doesn't buy him. I'm expecting 15+ goals in all competitions this year and the better the players around him, the better he is.

 

[Holters]

Yes, it does.

No, it doesn't. The keeper saved Pogba's attempt, i.e. the ball touched one of the opposition's players, so it will not be recorded as an assist.