[kr0nix]

The blame for everything lies at the feet of the manager. He signs the players and has to get the best out of them. This thread is about the performances of Paul Pogba, though. I reckon you won't find it too difficult to find a thread to have a moan about the manager, if that's what you'd prefer to do.

I agree with your appraisal of his performances this season, that he can do better and we should expect better, so I'm happy to leave it there.
I've had my say on the manager in the other threads, but it can be a bit difficult to discuss the reasons for Pogba's slump in isolation without involving other players or staff.

 

[Smores]

I'm pretty convinced if we stick him in his favoured position we'll still be talking about the same issues when his form next slumps.

People look for easy silver bullet solutions one after the other and when they can't think of any more (because thieir not an experienced football manager) they blame Jose.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm pretty convinced if we stick him in his favoured position we'll still be talking about the same issues when his form next slumps.

People look for easy silver bullet solutions one after the other and when they can't think of any more (because thieir not an experienced football manager) they blame Jose.

It’s kind of ironic after everyone ripped into @sammsky1 for his thread last season but Pogba really has become the elephant in the room. I don’t think you can consided this is isolation from the manager who signed off on the transfer but getting the best out of him is turning out to be an almighty headache and I can’t shake the nagging suspicion that he just isn’t as good as he/we think he is.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

It’s kind of ironic after everyone ripped into @sammsky1 for his thread last season but Pogba really has become the elephant in the room. I don’t think you can consided this is isolation from the manager who signed off on the transfer but getting the best out of him is turning out to be an almighty headache and I can’t shake the nagging suspicion that he just isn’t as good as he/we think he is.

Ditto

What’s frustrating though is that I suspect it’s more a mentality and attitude thing(maybe even an education issue, he’s still young tbf) than anything else. It’s become a bit of a cliche now, but in terms of raw attributes he really does have it all.

 

[jungledrums]

It’s kind of ironic after everyone ripped into @sammsky1 for his thread last season but Pogba really has become the elephant in the room. I don’t think you can consided this is isolation from the manager who signed off on the transfer but getting the best out of him is turning out to be an almighty headache and I can’t shake the nagging suspicion that he just isn’t as good as he/we think he is.

He’s been brilliant at times though. We haven’t exactly looked sparkling beyond Pogba either; lots of very good players playing seemingly within themselves. I agree we aren’t getting the best out of him but I wouldn’t single him out, he’s still been one of our top 5 performers this season.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It’s kind of ironic after everyone ripped into @sammsky1 for his thread last season but Pogba really has become the elephant in the room. I don’t think you can consided this is isolation from the manager who signed off on the transfer but getting the best out of him is turning out to be an almighty headache and I can’t shake the nagging suspicion that he just isn’t as good as he/we think he is.

His top level definitely is, we've seen that many times. But getting that consistency out of him is proving to be difficult, especially with our current squad.

Ideally he needs to be used in the "lampard" role like he played at Chelsea, a midfielder that is allowed to run free and attack, but still be required to do dirty work when needs be.

The problem is though we don't have an Essien / Makalele to support that.

 

[El Zoido]

I still think he’s fantastic, and is a great asset to our side. If he leaves I’m convinced we’ll regret it, and he will turn in magnificent performances at Madrid or wherever he ends up. That’s not to say he’s flawless, but he’s got so many great attributes.

 

[diplomat]

What’s frustrating though is that I suspect it’s more a mentality and attitude thing(maybe even an education issue, he’s still young tbf) than anything else. It’s become a bit of a cliche now, but in terms of raw attributes he really does have it all.

Pogba will be 25 in a few weeks. Not particularly young for a football player, especially someone like him with loads of experience both at club and international level. If you use the excuse "he needs to learn", then it could be used for almost every other player we have.

 

[Borden]

Pogba will be 25 in a few weeks. Not particularly young for a football player, especially someone like him with loads of experience both at club and international level. If you use the excuse "he needs to learn", then it could be used for almost every other player we have.

Still fairly young for a CM though, they usually play their best football in their late twenties. Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Zidane etc.

 

[diplomat]

Still fairly young for a CM though, they usually play their best football in their late twenties. Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Zidane etc.

That's not always the case. Many CMs are already competent at knowing fully well what their job as CM is by the time they hit 25 years of age. I hope you are right for our sake, but definitely don't have high hopes anymore.

 

[kidbob]

The boy has 13 assists this season playing in a completely disjointed attack FFS. He's as talented as they come. Even last night he was the only one trying to keep the ball under pressure and provide forward passes.

Let's look at the situation we are in: Sanchez looks shit, Martial is gone backwards, Lukaku has no support or service, Rashford has fallen off a cliff, Lingard has been scoring self created screamers, Mata is a playmaker who has no runs to pick out with his passing.

When you attack with only four players then you are going to struggle as an attacking side. Valencia's terrible crossing hardly matters when Jose only allows one player in the box to get on the end of it. We have pacy defenders yet drop really deep. We concede a stupid amount of shots on goal for a defensive team. The players seem to have no idea what the hell they are meant to do. Playing long balls to Lukaku takes Pogba out of the game. We have no idea how to press, in fact we have no idea how to do anything fluidly as a team. We are where we are in the League due to the individual moments of brilliance of our very talented players, which unfortunately can't be counted on on a game by game basis.

The blame lies on Jose and his scouts for the simple fact that if he had no idea of how to use Pogba and allow for his defensive frailties he should never have bought him. Ask Juve fans if they'd have him back and see the response. He has shone in a team (with emphasis on team) that demands the same level of performance as ours. To question his ability without questioning the ability of all our other players is downright stupid.

Lest we forget that SAF won the League with Cleverley in midfield, got us to a Champions League final with Hernandez and Welbeck being our main strikers. Would you have either of those back? If your aim as a manager is to not concede first and foremost then players like Pogba have no place being at this club.

Forget a cold night in Stoke, I'd love to see a fully prime Messi transform this 'team' and have no doubt even the great one would struggle. Forget signings, it's the managers job to create a team and identity and he has failed to do so. If Pogba is a 'fair-weather' player then you damn right as a manger be capable of creating an environment for him to shine in otherwise don't sign him at all.

Is it just the slight bit possible that Pogba is underperforming for the same reason the rest of our attackers and midfielders are?

 

[kouroux]

It’s kind of ironic after everyone ripped into @sammsky1 for his thread last season but Pogba really has become the elephant in the room. I don’t think you can consided this is isolation from the manager who signed off on the transfer but getting the best out of him is turning out to be an almighty headache and I can’t shake the nagging suspicion that he just isn’t as good as he/we think he is.

I'm not there yet, I stil believe there is a fantastic player in there. He just needs to stop being a baby and stop being a hero. When/If he truly learns to simplify his game, I think his real level will be apparent.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

That's not always the case. Many CMs are already competent at knowing fully well what their job as CM is by the time they hit 25 years of age. I hope you are right for our sake, but definitely don't have high hopes anymore.

I can be totally wrong here as I don’t personally know the guy, but he’s coming across a little self indulgent and entitled. I feel like it’s all got to his head a little and the student believes his a master when the reality is far from it.

 

[Canagel]

The boy has 13 assists this season playing in a completely disjointed attack FFS. He's as talented as they come. Even last night he was the only one trying to keep the ball under pressure and provide forward passes.

Let's look at the situation we are in: Sanchez looks shit, Martial is gone backwards, Lukaku has no support or service, Rashford has fallen off a cliff, Lingard has been scoring self created screamers, Mata is a playmaker who has no runs to pick out with his passing.

When you attack with only four players then you are going to struggle as an attacking side. Valencia's terrible crossing hardly matters when Jose only allows one player in the box to get on the end of it. We have pacy defenders yet drop really deep. We concede a stupid amount of shots on goal for a defensive team. The players seem to have no idea what the hell they are meant to do. Playing long balls to Lukaku takes Pogba out of the game. We have no idea how to press, in fact we have no idea how to do anything fluidly as a team. We are where we are in the League due to the individual moments of brilliance of our very talented players, which unfortunately can't be counted on on a game by game basis.

The blame lies on Jose and his scouts for the simple fact that if he had no idea of how to use Pogba and allow for his defensive frailties he should never have bought him. Ask Juve fans if they'd have him back and see the response. He has shone in a team (with emphasis on team) that demands the same level of performance as ours. To question his ability without questioning the ability of all our other players is downright stupid.

Lest we forget that SAF won the League with Cleverley in midfield, got us to a Champions League final with Hernandez and Welbeck being our main strikers. Would you have either of those back? If your aim as a manager is to not concede first and foremost then players like Pogba have no place being at this club.

Forget a cold night in Stoke, I'd love to see a fully prime Messi transform this 'team' and have no doubt even the great one would struggle. Forget signings, it's the managers job to create a team and identity and he has failed to do so. If Pogba is a 'fair-weather' player then you damn right as a manger be capable of creating an environment for him to shine in otherwise don't sign him at all.

Is it just the slight bit possible that Pogba is underperforming for the same reason the rest of our attackers and midfielders are?

Great post. I could understand the criticism of Pogba if all our attacking players were performing and he is the one letting the team down but that isn't the case. Literally NO-ONE is performing right now and that's down to the manager. Infact everyone who comes to United looks a shadow of their former selves. It's taken Sanchez 6 games to go down the same route but I'll wait to judge him at the end if the season because he's arrived mid-season with no integration period.

 

[Canagel]

The boy has 13 assists this season playing in a completely disjointed attack FFS. He's as talented as they come. Even last night he was the only one trying to keep the ball under pressure and provide forward passes.

Let's look at the situation we are in: Sanchez looks shit, Martial is gone backwards, Lukaku has no support or service, Rashford has fallen off a cliff, Lingard has been scoring self created screamers, Mata is a playmaker who has no runs to pick out with his passing.

When you attack with only four players then you are going to struggle as an attacking side. Valencia's terrible crossing hardly matters when Jose only allows one player in the box to get on the end of it. We have pacy defenders yet drop really deep. We concede a stupid amount of shots on goal for a defensive team. The players seem to have no idea what the hell they are meant to do. Playing long balls to Lukaku takes Pogba out of the game. We have no idea how to press, in fact we have no idea how to do anything fluidly as a team. We are where we are in the League due to the individual moments of brilliance of our very talented players, which unfortunately can't be counted on on a game by game basis.

The blame lies on Jose and his scouts for the simple fact that if he had no idea of how to use Pogba and allow for his defensive frailties he should never have bought him. Ask Juve fans if they'd have him back and see the response. He has shone in a team (with emphasis on team) that demands the same level of performance as ours. To question his ability without questioning the ability of all our other players is downright stupid.

Lest we forget that SAF won the League with Cleverley in midfield, got us to a Champions League final with Hernandez and Welbeck being our main strikers. Would you have either of those back? If your aim as a manager is to not concede first and foremost then players like Pogba have no place being at this club.

Forget a cold night in Stoke, I'd love to see a fully prime Messi transform this 'team' and have no doubt even the great one would struggle. Forget signings, it's the managers job to create a team and identity and he has failed to do so. If Pogba is a 'fair-weather' player then you damn right as a manger be capable of creating an environment for him to shine in otherwise don't sign him at all.

Is it just the slight bit possible that Pogba is underperforming for the same reason the rest of our attackers and midfielders are?

Great post. I could understand the criticism of Pogba if all our attacking players were performing and he is the one letting the team down but that isn't the case. Literally NO-ONE is performing right now and that's down to the manager. Infact everyone who comes to United looks a shadow of their former selves. It's taken Sanchez 6 games to go down the same route but I'll wait to judge him at the end if the season because he's arrived mid-season with no integration period.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The boy has 13 assists this season playing in a completely disjointed attack FFS. He's as talented as they come. Even last night he was the only one trying to keep the ball under pressure and provide forward passes.

Let's look at the situation we are in: Sanchez looks shit, Martial is gone backwards, Lukaku has no support or service, Rashford has fallen off a cliff, Lingard has been scoring self created screamers, Mata is a playmaker who has no runs to pick out with his passing.

When you attack with only four players then you are going to struggle as an attacking side. Valencia's terrible crossing hardly matters when Jose only allows one player in the box to get on the end of it. We have pacy defenders yet drop really deep. We concede a stupid amount of shots on goal for a defensive team. The players seem to have no idea what the hell they are meant to do. Playing long balls to Lukaku takes Pogba out of the game. We have no idea how to press, in fact we have no idea how to do anything fluidly as a team. We are where we are in the League due to the individual moments of brilliance of our very talented players, which unfortunately can't be counted on on a game by game basis.

The blame lies on Jose and his scouts for the simple fact that if he had no idea of how to use Pogba and allow for his defensive frailties he should never have bought him. Ask Juve fans if they'd have him back and see the response. He has shone in a team (with emphasis on team) that demands the same level of performance as ours. To question his ability without questioning the ability of all our other players is downright stupid.

Lest we forget that SAF won the League with Cleverley in midfield, got us to a Champions League final with Hernandez and Welbeck being our main strikers. Would you have either of those back? If your aim as a manager is to not concede first and foremost then players like Pogba have no place being at this club.

Forget a cold night in Stoke, I'd love to see a fully prime Messi transform this 'team' and have no doubt even the great one would struggle. Forget signings, it's the managers job to create a team and identity and he has failed to do so. If Pogba is a 'fair-weather' player then you damn right as a manger be capable of creating an environment for him to shine in otherwise don't sign him at all.

Is it just the slight bit possible that Pogba is underperforming for the same reason the rest of our attackers and midfielders are?

He'd have won feck all without Giggs and Scholes available too. In fact, that was one of the biggest issues in the last few years of Fergie's reign. We were overly reliant on our aging CMs to provide some class, composure and creativity in the centre of the park. As their powers declined, do did ours. And that was despite having a much younger version of Carrick in our squad, who was massively important in our most recent league title.

Pogba was supposed to bring a lot of those qualities back to our midfield but it hasn't happened yet. Not on a consistent basis anyway. Funnily enough, in the early part of the season Matic really stepped up and did what I was hoping Pogba would be doing more often. Always looking like he has time, not afraid to put his foot on the ball, or beat a man and almost never wasting a pass. Since his form dropped off in the last month our midfield has got more and more dysfunctional and that's affected us a team. You can't ignore the way that a midfield which isn't doing its job properly can mess up the rest of the team. As it stands, our defenders are under pressure because they're not getting great protection when we don't have the ball and have limited passing options when they do. Our more attacking players are getting poor service, with the ball taking too long to reach them so they're starved of space and time. And all of this has a knock-on effect on confidence and, hence, overall quality of our play.

If Pogba and Matic had both kept playing as well as they've done in their best games this season we would be much better off than we are right now (which is saying something because we're not exactly having a crisis as it is!)

 

[Amar__]

Do I think Pogba played better than Lukaku? Absolutely. But more to the point I'm open to the idea that my incredibly faulty memory and terrible attention span leads to me having a bit of a skewed perception on things, and independent statistics with transparent methodologies do offer some insight that I can't. Do you think something different?

I never think I am 100% correct on judging players' performances since I am always biased, same like every other human being. You can't like football, support some players more than other, and pretend you are not biased. I am not biased against Pogba though, I want him to succeed here, but to say that he had anything else than an average game last night is pretty much pretending he is doing better than he is.

It's actually ridiculous to say anyone from our team(except de Gea) was anything better than average considering Sevilla weren't anything special and yet looked like far better team on the pitch.

If you think I am harsh on Pogba what do you make of Banega's performance? I believe his performance can be regarded as straight 10.0 if Pogba's performance is regarded as good. I just can't understand how Pogba's performance is good when he hardly created anything, was totally dominated in the midfield, was pointless defensively like he always is, and didn't present any danger on their goal. How can that be called a good performance for a midfielder, statistically or however you want to measure it?

 

[diplomat]

I never think I am 100% correct on judging players' performances since I am always biased, same like every other human being. You can't like football, support some players more than other, and pretend you are not biased. I am not biased against Pogba though, I want him to succeed here, but to say that he had anything else than an average game last night is pretty much pretending he is doing better than he is.

It's actually ridiculous to say anyone from our team(except de Gea) was anything better than average considering Sevilla weren't anything special and yet looked like far better team on the pitch.

If you think I am harsh on Pogba what do you make of Banega's performance? I believe his performance can be regarded as straight 10.0 if Pogba's performance is regarded as good. I just can't understand how Pogba's performance is good when he hardly created anything, was totally dominated in the midfield, was pointless defensively like he always is, and didn't present any danger on their goal. How can that be called a good performance for a midfielder, statistically or however you want to measure it?

It's because fans have bought into the idea that playing tumescent football is OK and we can't expect much more from the players, except scoring more goals from the 2-3 clear-cut chances per game we get recently. Yesterday we had only 1 and it wasn't really clear-cut to be honest.

 

[dirkey]

Ronaldo did the same.

Yep. Ronaldo also single handedly won us games, and showed immense effort and determination to be the best. He sprinted around the pitch. Pogba ambles.

 

[Roeindo]

He'd have won feck all without Giggs and Scholes available too. In fact, that was one of the biggest issues in the last few years of Fergie's reign. We were overly reliant on our aging CMs to provide some class, composure and creativity in the centre of the park. As their powers declined, do did ours. And that was despite having a much younger version of Carrick in our squad, who was massively important in our most recent league title.

Pogba was supposed to bring a lot of those qualities back to our midfield but it hasn't happened yet. Not on a consistent basis anyway.

Funnily enough, in the early part of the season Matic really stepped up and did what I was hoping Pogba would be doing more often. Always looking like he has time, not afraid to put his foot on the ball, or beat a man and almost never wasting a pass. Since his form dropped off in the last month our midfield has got more and more dysfunctional and that's affected us a team. You can't ignore the way that a midfield which isn't doing its job properly can mess up the rest of the team. As it stands, our defenders are under pressure because they're not getting great protection when we don't have the ball and have limited passing options when they do. Our more attacking players are getting poor service, with the ball taking too long to reach them so they're starved of space and time. And all of this has a knock-on effect on confidence and, hence, overall quality of our play.

If Pogba and Matic had both kept playing as well as they've done in their best games this season we would be much better off than we are right now (which is saying something because we're not exactly having a crisis as it is!)

Sorry, but i think you failed to get the point mate.

I think he just tried to say that its a Manager job to make the best of the player that he have.

SAF succeded to make a better attacking unit base on player like Gigs, Scholes, Cleverley and even John O Shea. Even with player that have some individual issue between them like Sheringham and Andy Cole. He succeeded to get the best of them both working for the team.

While JM with the player he have now like Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku and Sanchez failed to do so. We rely on individual brilliance to get result.

For example to say that we are the best defensive team is purely wrong because we concede a lot of shoot on goal. If its not because of DDG we surely concede a lot of goals and bad result.

Why can we just defend like City? Because it need team work to do high pressing game not just the stamina of the player

Why can we just attack like City? Because it need team work to do fluid attacking football not just the talent of the attacker /player.

and after almost 2 season here, i see JM has done almost nothing to create his team identity.

Why i said so, because if we play as a team it will really hard to find the single player to blame when the result dont go our way.

We'll starting to look like JM anyway, blame other for our own failure.

 

[dirkey]

Our best chances were created by Pogba for Lukaku and Rashford...

This is the thing with Pogba. People make stuff up to make it sound like he was good. Rashford basically created that chance for himself with his movement, picking up the ball, running. He gave it to Pogba who moved it a yard. Serious chance creation there, I'm no professional footballer, but I like to think I could probably manage that myself.

And the Lukaku one - do you mean the one where, as I've said before, he played a simple cross, under no pressure, to the only place within Lukaku's vicinity where he had zero chance of actually controlling it without the use of his arm? Impressive chance creation alright.

 

[Hitchez]

He's been poor for a while now and people blaming it on him playing in the wrong position are deluding themselves. Something seem to be off with him and Mourinho.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Yep. Ronaldo also single handedly won us games, and showed immense effort and determination to be the best. He sprinted around the pitch. Pogba ambles.

Although it's unfair to compare them at this point, Ronaldo sprinted..around the third half of the pitch. Tevez and Rooney ran themselves into the ground for him and Fergie basically tailored the squad just for him.

We should building the squad around our best player and that's Pogba.

Even though he was absolutely dog sh|te off the ball last night, he still created some brilliant chances/transitions with his skill and composure in the middle of the pitch. Imagine Mourinho has a more proactive game plan.

We don't defend and counter like Leicester and neither do we press and hassle like Atletico ffs. What's up with this unorganised mess called 'defensive tactics', it's just risk averse and uninspired bollocks.

 

[el3mel]

Although it's unfair to compare them at this point, Ronaldo sprinted..around the third half of the pitch. Tevez and Rooney ran themselves into the ground for him and Fergie basically tailored the squad just for him.

We should building the squad around our best player and that's Pogba.

Even though he was absolutely dog sh|te off the ball last night, he still created some brilliant chances/transitions with his skill and composure in the middle of the pitch. Imagine Mourinho has a more proactive game plan.

We don't defend and counter like Leicester and neither do we press and hassle like Atletico ffs. What's up with this unorganised mess called 'defensive tactics', it's just risk averse and uninspired bollocks.

Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney are all forwards. Pogba is a midfielder ffs. He'll have to defend whatever up the pitch he's, in a 2 or 3 men midfield. There have never been a midfielder without defensive duties and there'll never be one.

 

[dirkey]

Although it's unfair to compare them at this point, Ronaldo sprinted..around the third half of the pitch. Tevez and Rooney ran themselves into the ground for him and Fergie basically tailored the squad just for him.

We should building the squad around our best player and that's Pogba.

Even though he was absolutely dog sh|te off the ball last night, he still created some brilliant chances/transitions with his skill and composure in the middle of the pitch. Imagine Mourinho has a more proactive game plan.

We don't defend and counter like Leicester and neither do we press and hassle like Atletico ffs. What's up with this unorganised mess called 'defensive tactics', it's just risk averse and uninspired bollocks.

Pogba is not good enough to tailor a side around. No way we should do that. He played in his favourite position yesterday and was bang average. Maybe he should be given more leeway, when we have the players to allow it (ie, a better midfielder to play in a 3 than Herrera, and 2 fit centre halves who aren't mistakes waiting to happen). And I say maybe. Because he's definitely not good enough to build a side around.

Giggs. Scholes. Beckham. Keane. Not a one of them was our side built around when they were here, and each and every one of them miles better than Pogba. No way should we build our side around him, doomed if we do.

 

[NotBrendanRodgers honest]

Based on?

On nothing really just my intuition and how all this is conveniently started happening after the Sanchez move

 

[Riverized157]

It´s quite obvious that Pogba is one of the most talented players of his generation - he has the potential to be " Ballon d'Or".

That said talent alone - and Pogba has lots of it - is not enough to win that kind of honours. He need to build a mentality matching that talent.

I do believe that is what Mourinho is trying to do. Some have pointed out the times that this kind of treatment that Mourinho has gave to his "stars" players in the past doesnt work - giving Casillas and Hazard as examples of the above.

However they fail to say that Mourinho has been doing this since the beginning of his carreer. In fact even at Oporto he sidelined Vitor Baia that was at that time the biggest idol of the club and the best goalkeeper in the Portugal by a country mile. After some games in the bench and having proved to the group that no player was above the squad Oporto ended up winning the Europa League and Champions League in consecutive seasons with Vitor Baia being named the best goalkeeper in Europe. This is just and example but there are more, like Deco.

So its not a given that this kind of treatment will irreversibly alienate the said stars players, there are examples of this Mourinho behavior ended up with the said players substantially improving their skills.

That said we know leave in the times of the social media and we have players with 18 or 19 years being already rich to the point of being set for life witch sometimes ends up making them spoiled brats incapable of dealing with tough love - time will tell wich is the case with Pogba.

 

[Canagel]

I feel that there are things happening behind the scenes with Pogba that we're not being told about. It's been a very strange 2/3 weeks ever since the Spurs game. Whatever the problems are it's important that Pogba and Jose put aside their differences until the end of the season at least. We have a season defining period coming up and these distractions aren't helping us at all. I'm pretty sure either Pogba or Jose won't be here for the start of next season. If I'd take a guess I'd say Pogba. Dropping your main star in one the biggest games of the season will have big ramifications. I'm worried Raiola has started sounding out clubs around Europe already.

 

[RedElf]

He's a show pony and doesn't what to do the defensive side of the game, not convinced he'll stay with us very long.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I have been a huge Pogba supporter but his performances over the last month have been nothing short of embarrassing. I am sick of players on big money not giving a feck. CL knockout game you get lucky to come on in the 16th minute and you play like you couldn't care less. Feck him

 

[Stacks]

His top level definitely is, we've seen that many times. But getting that consistency out of him is proving to be difficult, especially with our current squad.

Ideally he needs to be used in the "lampard" role like he played at Chelsea, a midfielder that is allowed to run free and attack, but still be required to do dirty work when needs be.

The problem is though we don't have an Essien / Makalele to support that.

He also isn't going to score 20 goals to compensate for one less attacker

Although it's unfair to compare them at this point, Ronaldo sprinted..around the third half of the pitch. Tevez and Rooney ran themselves into the ground for him and Fergie basically tailored the squad just for him.

We should building the squad around our best player and that's Pogba.

He is neither good enough, mature enough nor reliable enough for that.

It´s quite obvious that Pogba is one of the most talented players of his generation - he has the potential to be " Ballon d'Or".

That said talent alone - and Pogba has lots of it - is not enough to win that kind of honours. He need to build a mentality matching that talent.

He'll have to come leaps and bounds to be a Ballon d'Or contender. Mbappe will probably leave him in his dust, if he continues his projection. KDB is also the same age and seems to have matured quicker.

I have been a huge Pogba supporter but his performances over the last month have been nothing short of embarrassing. I am sick of players on big money not giving a feck. CL knockout game you get lucky to come on in the 16th minute and you play like you couldn't care less. Feck him

He is just lacking some confidence.

 

[Brwned]

I never think I am 100% correct on judging players' performances since I am always biased, same like every other human being. You can't like football, support some players more than other, and pretend you are not biased. I am not biased against Pogba though, I want him to succeed here, but to say that he had anything else than an average game last night is pretty much pretending he is doing better than he is.

It's actually ridiculous to say anyone from our team(except de Gea) was anything better than average considering Sevilla weren't anything special and yet looked like far better team on the pitch.

If you think I am harsh on Pogba what do you make of Banega's performance? I believe his performance can be regarded as straight 10.0 if Pogba's performance is regarded as good. I just can't understand how Pogba's performance is good when he hardly created anything, was totally dominated in the midfield, was pointless defensively like he always is, and didn't present any danger on their goal. How can that be called a good performance for a midfielder, statistically or however you want to measure it?

Statistically a big driver of that score is the fact he beat more men than anyone else on the pitch. That counts for quite a lot for attacking players in their rating system. I think for good reason too - it's what separates a lot of the elite players at the highest level. I find it a bit odd that people take it for granted how useful it is for Pogba to do something like this.


I understand why people complain about him ambling around, despite the numerous examples of this kind of purposeful and selfless running...


That's just lazy criticism based on appearance. But I really don't understand why people don't appreciate the fact he's often the only one breaking through the opposition midfield with patient, probing passing or clever footwork and a burst of pace. That's exactly the kind of thing people spent years on here complaining we didn't have. And he does it every game. Hey-ho.

 

[dirkey]

Statistically a big driver of that score is the fact he beat more men than anyone else on the pitch. That counts for quite a lot for attacking players in their rating system. I think for good reason too - it's what separates a lot of the elite players at the highest level. I find it a bit odd that people take it for granted how useful it is for Pogba to do something like this.


I understand why people complain about him ambling around, despite the numerous examples of this kind of purposeful and selfless running...


That's just lazy criticism based on appearance. But I really don't understand why people don't appreciate the fact he's often the only one breaking through the opposition midfield with patient, probing passing or clever footwork and a burst of pace. That's exactly the kind of thing people spent years on here complaining we didn't have. And he does it every game. Hey-ho.

Your first grab, that's a fair point. He does that well sometimes.

Your second video - I completely disagree with you calling it "selfless running". There's absolutely nothing selfless about that. Pogba is all about getting forward and trying flicks etc, trying to influence the game with a nice bit of skill. That's not a criticism, that's great. But, it's not selfless, as it's for the cameras in a sense, he knows it'll be picked up and praised. I want to see him move at that pace in the other direction, when a team is counter attacking on us. And I rarely do. He's so athletic, he has the pace and power to get back when a team breaks on us and help out, but he's rarely ever trying. That's what annoys me, and possibly others. It's the ambling when we're not in possession.

 

[Brwned]

Your first grab, that's a fair point. He does that well sometimes.

Your second video - I completely disagree with you calling it "selfless running". There's absolutely nothing selfless about that. Pogba is all about getting forward and trying flicks etc, trying to influence the game with a nice bit of skill. That's not a criticism, that's great. But, it's not selfless, as it's for the cameras in a sense, he knows it'll be picked up and praised. I want to see him move at that pace in the other direction, when a team is counter attacking on us. And I rarely do. He's so athletic, he has the pace and power to get back when a team breaks on us and help out, but he's rarely ever trying. That's what annoys me, and possibly others. It's the ambling when we're not in possession.

I understand why it's frustrating but I don't really understand why you expect that of him. That isn't who he is. That wasn't who Yaya Toure was, or who Zidane was. Pogba's some kind of weird mix between the two of them. Expecting him to be Roy Keane on and off the ball is pointless. He's a ball player who does some defensive work, he'll never be the reverse.

I don't think it's reasonable to describe that as laziness when he covers a shitload of ground at great pace. He just directs that energy in areas you don't want him to. And it makes sense that he devotes more of his energy to the attack because he's a bit brainless defensively. That's most apparent at set pieces but it's there all the time. I actually agree with Mourinho that he worked hard in this game and was quite disciplined. But he's the idiot who could've gave away a penalty with a clumsy tackle. It's just not his strength.

People want him to be defensively strong because he's big and quick. But he isn't. Rather than turning that into some kind of deep character failure can't we just accept that he has weaknesses?

 

[3KDré]

I didn't see people moaning much about his poor defensive abilities when we played Chelsea at home last year, or in the Europa League Final or even at the beginning of the season. I don't know if his last few games have been a lack of effort/motivation or illness, but our whole team looks disjointed in attack and now even in defence and any goals we do score are a result of individual brilliance. What I can say though is that none of our outfield players since Mourinho came have improved and played well consistently. I don't see Pogba as the problem for his performances recently.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Let’s just not be too rash with our judgement of him. He may have been ill and not fully recovered or back to “match fitness”.

Reviewing his season overall, when he’s not been injured he’s been one of our best players. It’s possible he is currently recovering from illness and it seems to me that Jose trying to fit Sanchez has upset the balance of the team.

It’s too early to be overly critical. Just wait and see how the season progresses before knee jerking.

 

[kidbob]

He'd have won feck all without Giggs and Scholes available too. In fact, that was one of the biggest issues in the last few years of Fergie's reign. We were overly reliant on our aging CMs to provide some class, composure and creativity in the centre of the park. As their powers declined, do did ours. And that was despite having a much younger version of Carrick in our squad, who was massively important in our most recent league title.

Pogba was supposed to bring a lot of those qualities back to our midfield but it hasn't happened yet. Not on a consistent basis anyway. Funnily enough, in the early part of the season Matic really stepped up and did what I was hoping Pogba would be doing more often. Always looking like he has time, not afraid to put his foot on the ball, or beat a man and almost never wasting a pass. Since his form dropped off in the last month our midfield has got more and more dysfunctional and that's affected us a team. You can't ignore the way that a midfield which isn't doing its job properly can mess up the rest of the team. As it stands, our defenders are under pressure because they're not getting great protection when we don't have the ball and have limited passing options when they do. Our more attacking players are getting poor service, with the ball taking too long to reach them so they're starved of space and time. And all of this has a knock-on effect on confidence and, hence, overall quality of our play.

If Pogba and Matic had both kept playing as well as they've done in their best games this season we would be much better off than we are right now (which is saying something because we're not exactly having a crisis as it is!)

I agree we're not in a crisis! To be honest my example of SAF was more to say that managers have managed to get more out of less talented players than Jose is currently doing. To be honest when I seen Pogba at Juve he always seemed to be the free roaming innovator in their midfield with Pirlo providing the playmaking and Marchisio providing the steel or number 8 role. I do agree he should be doing more but I feel we and Jose are expecting him to be a player he's never shown to be. That to me proves to be a bad purchase and bad scouting if the plans weren't in place to allow us to play to his strengths. Coincidentally I do feel that Jose has plans to 'fix' this in the summer and we'll see a midfielder come in to somewhat unleash Pogba while somewhat relieving the pressure on Matic too. However it's clear that for all his faults that Pogba is our one midfielder who is trying to create through forward passing and dribbling. I just don't think he'll ever be the playmaker from a deep role that we maybe expect him to be. It's just not his game IMO. If we see that midfield signing and it works as Jose wants it I'm sure that we'll not only see a better Pogba but also a much better attacking force (assuming that we stop launching long balls to Lukaku that is!).

 

[johanovic]

"Spurs and Liverpool just ran over us and we are left wanting against high pressing, hard working teams almost every time. There is hardly anyone making run´s and we are passing the ball around slowly with no width in our play.
I am backing Mourinho in this"
Don't you see there is a contradiction here. Here I´m refering to backing him in the stance against Pogba. I agree Mourinho is to blame for the setup and training of the team.

Question: why is it high pressing teams run over us? Because Mourinho has not coached a style of play that responds to the high press. His tactics are uninspired and anathema to United's tradition. Sit back and take a pasting then hope for some individual brilliance in a counter that never happens quickly enough as Mourinho has stifled our creative players. Dull coaching and tactics that are proving completely out dated to both the contemporary high press of todays better teams and to the organised defences of lesser teams. Mostly agree with you but I also feel certain players like Pogba and Martial are not giving it their best effort and players not bothering and giving 100% piss me off

Question: Why don't the team work hard?
Firstly they do not work as a team. Again this lack of any obvious team dynamic points to lack of clarity of game plan and roles. There is no team fluency just rigid conservatism. Add to the mix Mourinho wants to throw individual players under the bus.
Now Pogba is targeted by Mourinho and so is being called out as lazy by Mourinho's fan boys. He is being played out of position, in a shyte formation that will not get the best out of him and Mourinho has now stupidly involved him in a bizarre power struggle that is of Mourinho's own massive ego-ic making. If this conflict becomes more toxic it will backfire on Mourinho as he will be in danger of splitting or losing the dressing room. Pogba is not targeted by Mourinho, do you think if he was pulling his weight he would be out of the team? Players choosing where to play? Is that next? Roy Keane a player I greatly admired and Scholes played where they were told to play and did not behave like spoiled kids. A top player goes on the field, does the role he is asked to do to the best of his ability and gives 100%.

Question: Why is there no one making runs?
The answer is fear instiled by Mourinho's stifling coaching. Players fear they will lose the defensive positioning if they make forward runs. Just as there's no joy in watching this team play their tumescent version of José's football it can't be much fun playing under such restrictive instructions. All joy sucked out of the game so that pragmatism wins.
There are no apparent passages of passing football coached, no trained patterns emerge and individual players look too nervous to go on the kind of runs they are capable of. Agree with you but making room for a give and go instead of standing back is what most of the players do. Perhaps we need better wingers and more players that can win 1 vs 1 situations.

Question: Why no width?
Mourinho has chosen the hard working Young over the dynamic Luke Shaw and this has seriously affected our play. Shaw is a natural over lapping winger who can bring that lightning threat to help our attack but no, the defensive minded Mourinho doesnt trust him.
None of our players are improving under José. In fact many are in danger of regression with the confusion of tactics and formation and the stifling of their creativity.
Also why is Sanchez played on the left when Martial is very capable of excelling in that position ? Another tactical bizarre choice from the manager. Agree with you totally here.

Mourinho's done well enough with recruitment but in terms of tactics, formation, motivation, man management skills and player performance enhancement he is failing miserably.
Let's hope he can pull it together before the end of the season. If not he will have proved himself the wrong man for the club. Admittedly his management, fair play to him, has got us into the top 4 and scraping through in Europe, at the price of becoming both dull and average. That can only be accepted if the manager guarantees premier title or Champions league. He is far from guaranteeing either and meanwhile the atmosphere is brewing headily.

Perhaps he could pull out a method Sir Alex used to great avail during his time here. Delegate and bring in a couple of new coaches and develop. If he continues in the same way this is only going to end in one way.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree we're not in a crisis! To be honest my example of SAF was more to say that managers have managed to get more out of less talented players than Jose is currently doing. To be honest when I seen Pogba at Juve he always seemed to be the free roaming innovator in their midfield with Pirlo providing the playmaking and Marchisio providing the steel or number 8 role. I do agree he should be doing more but I feel we and Jose are expecting him to be a player he's never shown to be. That to me proves to be a bad purchase and bad scouting if the plans weren't in place to allow us to play to his strengths. Coincidentally I do feel that Jose has plans to 'fix' this in the summer and we'll see a midfielder come in to somewhat unleash Pogba while somewhat relieving the pressure on Matic too. However it's clear that for all his faults that Pogba is our one midfielder who is trying to create through forward passing and dribbling. I just don't think he'll ever be the playmaker from a deep role that we maybe expect him to be. It's just not his game IMO. If we see that midfield signing and it works as Jose wants it I'm sure that we'll not only see a better Pogba but also a much better attacking force (assuming that we stop launching long balls to Lukaku that is!).

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Didn’t disagree with much of your previous post either. I’m probably more optimistic than you overall but - if I’m honest - that’s as much down to sheer force of will as it is down to analysing what I see on the pitch. The long balls to Lukaku make me sad

 

[Adnan]

William Gallas on Mourinho-Pogba situation: "Whether it was me or whether it was someone else, he has always had a go at his players.If he does that it’s because he likes you and thinks you have quality." [sfr sport]

William Gallas: "I think we'll see a stronger Paul Pogba, the Paul Pogba that we saw at Juventus." [sfr sport]