[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

He's far from toxic. Funny how the issues surrounding his professionalism prop up the moment he started playing in England. Certain old white journalists hate what players like Pogba and Sterling represent.

In addition, it's Mourinho's bullshit that has driven this narrative and agenda. Pogba deserves a chance under a better coach and functioning first team.

It's funny you should mention those 2 players. They used to be very similar in terms of how they approached their off-field brand. Their Instagram profiles used to be very similar, all about the wealth and appearance that comes with football.

This led to a lot of criticism of Sterling in particular and appears to have spilled over into racist abuse, which is ridiculous. You may dislike someone's personality for how they choose to portray themselves, but no one is deserving of racist abuse as a result.

But where Sterling differs from Pogba, despite being 18 months younger, is that he has matured significantly in the last few years and become a true professional. He is less concerned about his off-field brand and image and more concerned about his game and how he can improve it. He is a much better player as a result.

Pogba still seems very immature for a soon to be 26 year old. Whether he would excel under a Pep type coach too is the question? I can't see that Pep would pick him either to be honest.

 

[MadDogg]

Of course he's not deliberately playing badly. But it's obvious his head isn't in a good place right now and he's frustrated and low in confidence, which of course is going to have an impact on his performances.

 

[mancan92]

It's funny you should mention those 2 players. They used to be very similar in terms of how they approached their off-field brand. Their Instagram profiles used to be very similar, all about the wealth and appearance that comes with football.

This led to a lot of criticism of Sterling in particular and appears to have spilled over into racist abuse, which is ridiculous. You may dislike someone's personality for how they choose to portray themselves, but no one is deserving of racist abuse as a result.

But where Sterling differs from Pogba, despite being 18 months younger, is that he has matured significantly in the last few years and become a true professional. He is less concerned about his off-field brand and image and more concerned about his game and how he can improve it. He is a much better player as a result.

Pogba still seems very immature for a soon to be 26 year old. Whether he would excel under a Pep type coach too is the question? I can't see that Pep would pick him either to be honest.

Did you ever think for a second that sterling might have matured because he has someone who actually knows how to man manage people?

 

[André Dominguez]

Cool but if you watched both on a regular basis over the course of their careers you would know that is absolutely not true.

Aimar was hugely inconsistent for Valencia and would turn up 1 in 3 matches. While deco was a streaky player especially for Barca great for a couple months. Then back in his shell again.

Aimar was released from Valencia because a young kid named David Silva stole his place.

Deco great for a couple of months...

His will to win, his tactical nous and his team spirit very soon made him into one of the leaders of one of the best teams in Barcelona’s history which won two back-to-back leagues and the Champions League

He eventually lost space in team due to sucessive injuries and also a guy named Iniesta was coming through the ranks.

 

[mancan92]

Aimar was released from Valencia because a young kid named David Silva stole his place.

Deco great for a couple of months...


He eventually lost space in team due to sucessive injuries and also a guy named Iniesta was coming through the ranks.

Aimar wouldn't have been let go regardless of David Silva if he was consistent. The point is that very much like riquelme he had all the talent but lacked consistency.

Deco as I said was a streaky player injuries sure but extremely streaky. Especially not good in games his team were poor in.

 

[breakout67]

Even if true, it is very unlikely that he goes about telling people that he is under-performing because of Jose. That is a suicidal move.

He doesn't have to flat out say it. All I'm seeing is dumpster level journalism accusing Pogba of downing tools. Plenty of players have problems with the manager.

According to the press, Fabregas and Costa were 'snakes' at Chelsea. It turns out that Mourinho had a meeting with Fabregas a few days before being sacked detailing how he was going to focus the tactics to to get the best out of him to save the season. Costa has also said in interviews that he is on good terms with Mourinho and they check up on each other every so often.

I think there is a lot of building up of something that isn't really there.

 

[Hammondo]

If a player is deliberately underperforming, he should be nowhere near the club, let alone the squad.

Agreed. Keane would have killed him by now.

 

[PepsiCola]

It's funny you should mention those 2 players. They used to be very similar in terms of how they approached their off-field brand. Their Instagram profiles used to be very similar, all about the wealth and appearance that comes with football.

This led to a lot of criticism of Sterling in particular and appears to have spilled over into racist abuse, which is ridiculous. You may dislike someone's personality for how they choose to portray themselves, but no one is deserving of racist abuse as a result.

But where Sterling differs from Pogba, despite being 18 months younger, is that he has matured significantly in the last few years and become a true professional. He is less concerned about his off-field brand and image and more concerned about his game and how he can improve it. He is a much better player as a result.

Pogba still seems very immature for a soon to be 26 year old. Whether he would excel under a Pep type coach too is the question? I can't see that Pep would pick him either to be honest.

Look at the mentor Sterling has had the past few years compared to the one Pogba has had.

 

[André Dominguez]

Aimar wouldn't have been let go regardless of David Silva if he was consistent. The point is that very much like riquelme he had all the talent but lacked consistency.

Deco as I said was a streaky player injuries sure but extremely streaky. Especially not good in games his team were poor in.

I have to disagree about Deco: he was quite consistent, even at Barcelona. He made two amazing seasons, he was really considered the world best midfielder at the time.

Deco eventually lost space to Iniesta, which is comprehensible, since Iniesta is a more complete player. Also add the fact that he had surgeries in that time. In his last five years of his career he was more time at the phisyo office than at the training ground.

Yes, he did his pack of shitty games as any other player, but you have to admit that Pogba is doing A LOT of shitty games for a 100M€ player. It's difficult to defend a player who not only has this price tag, he also has an astronomical wage. If you hate the manager, do it for the fans, for crying out loud.

 

[mancan92]

I have to disagree about Deco: he was quite consistent, even at Barcelona. He made two amazing seasons, he was really considered the world best midfielder at the time.

Deco eventually lost space to Iniesta, which is comprehensible, since Iniesta is a more complete player. Also add the fact that he had surgeries in that time. In his last five years of his career he was more time at the phisyo office than at the training ground.

Yes, he did his pack of shitty games as any other player, but you have to admit that Pogba is doing A LOT of shitty games for a 100M€ player. It's difficult to defend a player who not only has this price tag, he also has an astronomical wage. If you hate the manager, do it for the fans, for crying out loud.

The point you have to remember is that deco was playing in a fully functioning team so even if he was poor the team still turned it on so would cover any issues you saw because he might be missing every set piece but he can hand it off to ronaldinho to produce to magic. The problem is if pogba isn't producing then no one else is and it cannot cover him up at all.

 

[André Dominguez]

The point you have to remember is that deco was playing in a fully functioning team so even if he was poor the team still turned it on so would cover any issues you saw because he might be missing every set piece but he can hand it off to ronaldinho to produce to magic. The problem is if pogba isn't producing then no one else is and it cannot cover him up at all.

We agree on that point about Pogba. The problem is that he's producing so little that is making it hard for me to see a silver lining about his performances and his ability to reach his fulll potential. I don't think his personality is driven enough to pursuit that. And it's a shame, because he has tons of talent.

 

[Canagel]

Look at the mentor Sterling has had the past few years compared to the one Pogba has had.

Pep comments on Pogba - April 2017

" I met Paul Pogba for the first time when Bayern Munich played Juventus,” he explained.

“In both games I was really impressed. He played in 10 positions. He is an outstanding player and he can do absolutely everything.

“Of course sometimes it’s not easy to handle the expectations you have when you arrive here, especially with the amount of money. It wasn’t easy.

“He’s an outstanding player and I think he made a good season.”

Anyone who claims he wouldn't play for pep or klopp team and look significantly better is lying to themselves

 

[MadDogg]

Agreed. Keane would have killed him by now.

Keane would have killed Mourinho by now as well.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Pep comments on Pogba - April 2017

" I met Paul Pogba for the first time when Bayern Munich played Juventus,” he explained.

“In both games I was really impressed. He played in 10 positions. He is an outstanding player and he can do absolutely everything.

“Of course sometimes it’s not easy to handle the expectations you have when you arrive here, especially with the amount of money. It wasn’t easy.

“He’s an outstanding player and I think he made a good season.”

Anyone who claims he wouldn't play for pep or klopp team and look significantly better is lying to themselves

I don't know why you're even bothering replying to those folks. He's obviously good enough, in terms of talent. The question that's actually worth debating is the idea that Pogba is so undisciplined that he needs to be surrounded by a team of world beaters, very good players etc or if it's purely down to the tactics. That is, should the setup allow him more freedom and less responsibility.

I think it's the attitude towards the game, stemming from an agent that made him think he knew better than Sir Alex, followed by an immediate validation in Turin. Certainly winning the WC probably has him thinking the same - I can play the way I like and be successful if I have a better team and coaches around me like at the WC. It would be interesting to see if he was able to get on with the work ethic Pep's teams demand or if he'd think himself too good for that too

 

[Steerpike]

Keane would have killed Mourinho by now as well.

Could we sign Roy Keane on a short term contract?

 

[Coxy]

Except he doesnt for France... Hes hit or miss in most games, as in he can do world class things but fluff the simplest passes that you need a midfielder to do.

It also helps that hes surrounded by quality in literally every position... Our club wont be at that stage for a long time, at least 3 more transfer windows, if that with the glazers stigniness.

Just ship him for 150m or whatever and get in verratti or Pjanic, stable consistent midfielders who can control the midfield with tempo.

Glazers stinginess?? You realise we’ve spent a fortune lately right?

 

[el3mel]

That World Cup performance is getting massively overrated and used as to evaluate his career with France as a whole for some time. Fact is prior to it he was getting exactly the same flack as he's getting with United, being inconsistent or absent when it matters. Remember the Euro, he was getting similar criticism as of now.

 

[Jeppers7]

That World Cup performance is getting massively overrated and used as to evaluate his career with France as a whole for some time.
same flack as he's getting with United, being inconsistent or absent when it matters. Remember the Euro, he was getting similar criticism as of now.

He was a very important part of a World Cup winning nation. Him Varane Kante and Mbappe. To deny it makes you look stupid. Just get over it, it happened.

 

[shamans]

That World Cup performance is getting massively overrated and used as to evaluate his career with France as a whole for some time. Fact is prior to it he was getting exactly the same flack as he's getting with United, being inconsistent or absent when it matters. Remember the Euro, he was getting similar criticism as of now.

It's not getting overrated at all. It is only getting mentioned because some idiots are downplaying it as "a few solid games". He was a core part of that team and it proved that he can perform at the highest level to a degree of consistency.

He's not free of blame here but FFS this guy has torn it up wherever he has been except under Mourinho.

 

[In Rainbows]

That World Cup performance is getting massively overrated and used as to evaluate his career with France as a whole for some time. Fact is prior to it he was getting exactly the same flack as he's getting with United, being inconsistent or absent when it matters. Remember the Euro, he was getting similar criticism as of now.

And he was great before that. World Cup 2014 Best Young Player.

He's been great for France as a whole.

 

[AR87]

A few things:

1. Mourinho's tactics and general approach is likely not suited to ideally get the the best out of Pogba's talents as well as many others in the squad as we've seen.
2. Not having even a consistent formation, let alone an XI, hinders Pogba from fully grasping what's expected from him.
3. Pogba very clearly has dips in form and performance which are inexplicable for a player with his quality and talent, and his sometimes non-existent workrate are inexcusable regardless of his relationship with the manager and his tactics.

I would like to see Pogba at United under a different manager to see if it's potentially just a case of him downing tools because he's unhappy, but he clearly is responsible to some degree for his underperformance.

 

[.Rossi]

Imagine Raiola if Keane gives Pogba shit on Sunday?

Good luck calling Keane out, mate

 

[ROFLUTION]

He's talked about like some great performer, but Pogba's problem is not the big matches.

Its all these matches against midtable opponents when he cant be arsed to focus. He's been terrible in those.

 

[Negan]

It’s best for all parties if we cut ties.

Pogba has all the talent in the world but he’s a messer. We would be better off signing a less talented, more reliable midfielder like Doucoure, Kondogbia, Seri, Milinkovic-Savic or Gueye for example. We could probably even get two of those with Pogba’s sale.

 

[.Rossi]

The more I read this thread, the more some of you have painted this image of Mourinho with Pogba in my head

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Is Pogba as poor as we’ve seen on a regular basis? I don’t think so. Does he have the potential to be a consistent, world class player? Yes he does but his attitude is all wrong. You can’t down tools and piss around because you don’t like the manager anymore, you’re a professional under a contract.

To be a great player you need more than talent...you need dedication, the right attitude and utmost professionalism (unless you’re looking at naturally talented mavericks which Pogba isn’t). Let’s look at Ronaldo, wanted to leave summer 2008 but SAF asked for one more season. In his mind he knew he was on his way out, did he think feck it I’m going anyway might as well just see the season out? No, he gave us a world class season and helped us to a premier league title and to a CL final then left as the best player in the world. Pogba isn’t made of that stuff.

I’ve not been impressed by him at all but since nobody’s thriving under Jose and we’re an absolute state at the moment I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt until we get to see him under the new manager.

 

[Canagel]

Is Pogba as poor as we’ve seen on a regular basis? I don’t think so. Does he have the potential to be a consistent, world class player? Yes he does but his attitude is all wrong. You can’t down tools and piss around because you don’t like the manager anymore, you’re a professional under a contract.

To be a great player you need more than talent...you need dedication, the right attitude and utmost professionalism (unless you’re looking at naturally talented mavericks which Pogba isn’t). Let’s look at Ronaldo, wanted to leave summer 2008 but SAF asked for one more season. In his mind he knew he was on his way out, did he think feck it I’m going anyway might as well just see the season out? No, he gave us a world class season and helped us to a premier league title and to a CL final then left as the best player in the world. Pogba isn’t made of that stuff.

I’ve not been impressed by him at all but since nobody’s thriving under Jose and we’re an absolute state at the moment I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt until we get to see him under the new manager.

SAF is not like Mourinho. Ronaldo is the ultimate professional but he was also questioned and fell out with Jose. They nearly came to blows even.
Mourinho is the problem.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

France winning the WC has deluded people into thinking Pogba is a top 5 CM in the world yet again.
I don't even think his performances for France were any better than what he showcases at United.
Most of their goals were counterattacking ones and he didn't start most of them.
He had 0 assists the whole tournament in fact.

If It's about his defensive contribution well yea France was even more defensive than Jose playing City away so he would definitely need to defend more.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

SAF is not like Mourinho. Ronaldo is the ultimate professional but he was also questioned and fell out with Jose. They nearly came to blows even.
Mourinho is the problem.

That’s why I said I’d give Pogba the benefit of the doubt until he gets a chance to prove himself under new management, which I don’t think will be too long. If and when that does happen, then Pogba needs to step up and the onus really will be on him to show us what he’s got

 

[el3mel]

It's not getting overrated at all. It is only getting mentioned because some idiots are downplaying it as "a few solid games". He was a core part of that team and it proved that he can perform at the highest level to a degree of consistency.

He's not free of blame here but FFS this guy has torn it up wherever he has been except under Mourinho.

It's still "few solid games" though. I'm not sure what's your problem with who say this. Surely you understand the difference between a competition of 7 games and a whole 12 months of 2 games a week ? Cup competions isn't a measurement of consistency for a player or a team in general, the league is.

Neither in Juve nor in France there was any universal agreement about his consistency. The only difference is he has been playing for teams full of world class players who cover for him whenever he's ''not in the mood to play", here it's getting more exposed because he's supposed to carry the team

You simply don't pay 90m for a player then expect to pay +250m more to get the best out of him! How are you people convinced with this seriously ? If anything, both France and Juve prove Pogba is just the cherry on the cake, you buy him only when you have great team and want to inject some more quality in it, not to build a team around him, simply to be another good player in the machine.

 

[shamans]

It's still "few solid games" though. I'm not sure what's your problem with who say this. Surely you understand the difference between a competition of 7 games and a whole 12 months of 2 games a week ? Cup competions isn't a measurement of consistency for a player or a team in general, the league is.

Neither in Juve nor in France there was any universal agreement about his consistency. The only difference is he has been playing for teams full of world class players who cover for him whenever he's ''not in the mood to play", here it's getting more exposed because he's supposed to carry the team

You simply don't pay 90m for a player then expect to pay +250m more to get the best out of him! How are you people convinced with this seriously ? If anything, both France and Juve prove Pogba is just the cherry on the cake, you buy him only when you have great team and want to inject some more quality in it, not to build a team around him, simply to be another good player in the machine.

The fecking world cup is not just a "cup competition". It's the highest stage of them all. And yes you do pay 90m and then pay more to get the best out of it. Either that or you have a better functioning team. Pogba is not someone who can carry a team that just isn't his game but he is an incredible player that can become a crucial cog in a good team.

All the experts agree with this. He has proved it in top teams but no according to CAF experts he just isn't good enough for 8th place Manchester United. (not to mention before a weeks ago he was actually the few players who was helping us win games! FFS the short memories on here)

 

[el3mel]

The fecking world cup is not just a "cup competition". It's the highest stage of them all. And yes you do pay 90m and then pay more to get the best out of it. Either that or you have a better functioning team. Pogba is not someone who can carry a team that just isn't his game but he is an incredible player that can become a crucial cog in a good team.

All the experts agree with this. He has proved it in top teams but no according to CAF experts he just isn't good enough for 8th place Manchester United. (not to mention before a weeks ago he was actually the few players who was helping us win games! FFS the short memories on here)

It's still 7 games. You only need to put max efforts in 7 games in 1 month. It's nothing to prove his consistency. It's just a proof of how great he's when he decides he's up to it. Consistency is measured based on how you perform in 50 games a season with 2 games a week, and Pogba wasn't consistent for Juve either. The difference between both situations is clear.

No you don't pay 90m to expect 250m more of payment to get the best out of that 90m. You pay that large fee for a player in a rebuild process you expect him to be someone you build the team around, otherwise save this money you spent on him till you have a great team already.

You're mixing things up. No one has ever questioned his quality as a player, or said he's not good enough. His consistency and mentality on the pitch is the thing that's questioned. We all know when he decides he's up to it he becimes easily our best player in the pitch. The problem is when this happens is completely random and up to his mood this day, and you never know which side of Pogba is going to show up the day of match, which is ridiculous for a player of this profile and in such position which requires consistency.

 

[Sayros]

You're mixing things up. No one has ever questioned his quality as a player, or said he's not good enough. His consistency and mentality on the pitch is the thing that's questioned. We all know when he decides he's up to it he becimes easily our best player in the pitch. The problem is when this happens is completely random and up to his mood this day, and you never know which side of Pogba is going to show up the day of match, which is ridiculous for a player of this profile and in such position which requires consistency.

Just try to step out of yourself for one moment, why would Pogba, or any player for that matter, not step on the field with the mood to dominate? Especially considering they have a manager that has been benching them, there would be no sweeter way to shut him up. It's not that Pogba is not playing well because he doesn't feel like it, or wants to get Mourinho fired. He's not the one sore spot in a team full of cohesion and ability. This team as a whole is a miserable bunch, and outside of the odd Martial or current Rashford run of form, there hasn't been much consistency out of anyone.

As far as consistency, I challenge anybody to try and be consistent when the starting XI takes drastic changes in personnel and formation. It's very difficult to take advantage of what Pogba brings when it's a constantly (d)evolving selection by a manager that either doesn't know how to properly prepare his team for his tactics or can't get the message across, which is really irrelevant which is which as it's as crucial for a manager to be capable of.

 

[el3mel]

Just try to step out of yourself for one moment, why would Pogba, or any player for that matter, not step on the field with the mood to dominate? Especially considering they have a manager that has been benching them, there would be no sweeter way to shut him up. It's not that Pogba is not playing well because he doesn't feel like it, or wants to get Mourinho fired. He's not the one sore spot in a team full of cohesion and ability. This team as a whole is a miserable bunch, and outside of the odd Martial or current Rashford run of form, there hasn't been much consistency out of anyone.

As far as consistency, I challenge anybody to try and be consistent when the starting XI takes drastic changes in personnel and formation. It's very difficult to take advantage of what Pogba brings when it's a constantly (d)evolving selection by a manager that either doesn't know how to properly prepare his team for his tactics or can't get the message across, which is really irrelevant which is which as it's as crucial for a manager to be capable of.

This logic doesn't make sense. Pogba has already had several great games this season. If he's escalating this quickly between 9/10 to 4/10 perofrmances from game to game then it's surely his problem not anyone else, I mean if he's affected by the awful state of the team he should be shite every game, not great in some and shite in others. His inconsistency is simply his problem. He can't bring himself to focus on playing a whole season 40-50 games with same concentration and commitment, which all other top players do. It's just getting more exposed here, but he has been always like that. Great player, but doesn't show up every day.

 

[roonster09]

You simply don't pay 90m for a player then expect to pay +250m more to get the best out of him! How are you people convinced with this seriously ?

You don't pay money to get best out of someother player, you pay to improve the team.

Hilarious that people think Matic and Fred are some sort of gift for Pogba and signed to get best out of Pogba.

 

[Canagel]

Imagine Raiola if Keane gives Pogba shit on Sunday?

Good luck calling Keane out, mate

He won't play. Most likely. therefore Jose and some of our fans that claimed we was better against Fulham without will have to find another scapegoat this time.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

That World Cup performance is getting massively overrated and used as to evaluate his career with France as a whole for some time. Fact is prior to it he was getting exactly the same flack as he's getting with United, being inconsistent or absent when it matters. Remember the Euro, he was getting similar criticism as of now.

I only saw him play against Australia in the World cup and we shut him down pretty well, the ogg was a moment of quality where he actually pushed on and made one of his rare bursts forward in the game that wasn't on the counter. I thought Mooy and Kruse completely nullified him by getting to him quickly and doing what a lot of PL teams have done to him over the last couple of season. Basically get underneath his legs and push onto him which forces him to hold the ball a lot longer than he should.

 

[Jeppers7]

This logic doesn't make sense. Pogba has already had several great games this season. If he's escalating this quickly between 9/10 to 4/10 perofrmances from game to game then it's surely his problem not anyone else, I mean if he's affected by the awful state of the team he should be shite every game, not great in some and shite in others. His inconsistency is simply his problem. He can't bring himself to focus on playing a whole season 40-50 games with same concentration and commitment, which all other top players do. It's just getting more exposed here, but he has been always like that. Great player, but doesn't show up every day.

Then it should also not make sense for any of our players, barring perhaps Matic and Lukaku who have been consistently shite all season. Every other player has varied from good to bad week to week. All of them.

 

[VorZakone]

I'm sure he'll flourish under a new manager.

 

[Sayros]

This logic doesn't make sense. Pogba has already had several great games this season. If he's escalating this quickly between 9/10 to 4/10 perofrmances from game to game then it's surely his problem not anyone else, I mean if he's affected by the awful state of the team he should be shite every game, not great in some and shite in others. His inconsistency is simply his problem. He can't bring himself to focus on playing a whole season 40-50 games with same concentration and commitment, which all other top players do. It's just getting more exposed here, but he has been always like that. Great player, but doesn't show up every day.

You would have a point if Pogba was the only one on the team being inconsistent. This is a team-wide issue, and again I go back to the fact that a lot of it has to do with the way the team is being set up week-to-week, with different line-ups, tactics, players playing out of position.

The logic doesn't make sense only when you think a player should be able to be consistently great despite all the obstacles mentioned above and a complete lack of continuity, with poor preparation on top of it. Again, if Pogba was the only one, you might have a point, but we all know better.