[Apokalips]

My post mentioned nothing about wherever anyone would like to draw his success as a player. I said our fans never took to him from the beginning, and they haven’t, not to me. You may think certain things are absolutes, but I don’t think they are at all. Perception is everything. Performances are to be interpreted, and they are naturally interpreted from the vantage point of how a player is viewed. For example, one poster may well accept no ‘excuse’ for what they consider to be a below par Pogba performance. The same poster may then go and make an excuse for a poor Bruno one. On the flip, the same poster may be a bit ‘pfft’ and reserved in praise after a good performance, in fact, they may even prefer to focus on something that wasn’t perfect. Maybe praise would be more effusive for a player they ‘like’. It happens with all of us.

Anyway, without wanting to ramble, I think fans never saw Pogba as one of ours. I think at the beginning of his return, that had nothing to do with him, more to do with the complex I mentioned. After that, he began to contribute to it himself with some comments attributed, which in and of themselves, would not have been that deep at all IMO if they did not come from him. We had a mega thread 3 seasons ago full of ‘I hope he never plays for us again’ predicated on an open dialogue about how he has faked an injury. This is after a period where, if we are talking about a player kicking a ball into the net, as you put it, it would be hard to argue that Pogba wasn’t our best player, or at the very least, amongst our best. He was also very distrusted and disliked. I was focusing on that almost exclusively in my previous post, as that is what the conversation was about when you mentioned how our fans gave him several chances.

The football side has been mixed, but the ill will would paint a picture that it has been a total disaster, which isn’t the truth. I don’t know if there is an easy way to do it, but I suspect that if we look at the caf MOTM awards for every game Pogba has started in his entire 6 years here, he is actually, as voted by the people, in the top 3 for a large percentage. It’s just that it doesn’t take long to descend to the base level of negativity, 3-5 poorer games would do it typically. He’s been hugely unpopular, and anyone who doesn’t share that unpopularity has always been someone to sneer at and label some sort of acolyte. The reasons for that, you can hold an opinion on, I’m just saying that I disagree with the fans always backing him. I remember the conversations on here from not only his first season, but even before he signed.

Fully agreed with yourself and Jeppers and it is sad because Pogba came back and saw himself as one of us, but our fans have always looked for an excuse, whether it be reiterating a false belief that Fergie wanted rid of him or him dying his hair blue just before the derby because he wanted to play for City or whatever.

Fans and media have peddled a narrative about his personality that literally everyone (bar Jose) that has met the man says the opposite to and like you say through his time here he has generally been one of our most regular MOTMs yet people will say he has 2 good games in his career for us or some such nonsense. I generally have avoided any Pogba related thread because some people just act really weird and it has encapsulated just how horribly toxic and hysterical our fanbase has become since we lost the comfort blanket of Sir Alex.

 

[bosnian_red]

Racist? Seriously?

What's wrong with clubs and women? Don't be so judgmental and misogynist. They are part of what makes life worth living.

For the avoidance of doubt I have no idea why Pogba likes Dubai so much. But he sure seems to prefer it to Manchester.

There is nothing wrong with them in the right situation. There's a lot wrong with chasing women if you're a married man like Pogba is. There's a lot wrong with going clubbing and going for women if you're a married man but also a devout Muslim like he is. There's a lot wrong with prioritizing clubbing for professional athletes mid season as well. Why would you assume he's going there for that other than outdated stereotypes, because that literally has 0 to do with anything Pogba has ever done? You're essentially saying his priority is going clubbing when that has nothing to do with it, yet you're trying to pass it off as fact?

As to why he would prefer to be there? He probably likes being in a predominantly Muslim country with nice weather and beaches, for starters. He's injured. Who cares where he does his injury recovery.

 

[bosnian_red]

My post mentioned nothing about wherever anyone would like to draw his success as a player. I said our fans never took to him from the beginning, and they haven’t, not to me. You may think certain things are absolutes, but I don’t think they are at all. Perception is everything. Performances are to be interpreted, and they are naturally interpreted from the vantage point of how a player is viewed. For example, one poster may well accept no ‘excuse’ for what they consider to be a below par Pogba performance. The same poster may then go and make an excuse for a poor Bruno one. On the flip, the same poster may be a bit ‘pfft’ and reserved in praise after a good performance, in fact, they may even prefer to focus on something that wasn’t perfect. Maybe praise would be more effusive for a player they ‘like’. It happens with all of us.

Anyway, without wanting to ramble, I think fans never saw Pogba as one of ours. I think at the beginning of his return, that had nothing to do with him, more to do with the complex I mentioned. After that, he began to contribute to it himself with some comments attributed, which in and of themselves, would not have been that deep at all IMO if they did not come from him. We had a mega thread 3 seasons ago full of ‘I hope he never plays for us again’ predicated on an open dialogue about how he has faked an injury. This is after a period where, if we are talking about a player kicking a ball into the net, as you put it, it would be hard to argue that Pogba wasn’t our best player, or at the very least, amongst our best. He was also very distrusted and disliked. I was focusing on that almost exclusively in my previous post, as that is what the conversation was about when you mentioned how our fans gave him several chances.

The football side has been mixed, but the ill will would paint a picture that it has been a total disaster, which isn’t the truth. I don’t know if there is an easy way to do it, but I suspect that if we look at the caf MOTM awards for every game Pogba has started in his entire 6 years here, he is actually, as voted by the people, in the top 3 for a large percentage. It’s just that it doesn’t take long to descend to the base level of negativity, 3-5 poorer games would do it typically. He’s been hugely unpopular, and anyone who doesn’t share that unpopularity has always been someone to sneer at and label some sort of acolyte. The reasons for that, you can hold an opinion on, I’m just saying that I disagree with the fans always backing him. I remember the conversations on here from not only his first season, but even before he signed.

Its been a relationship that from all sides, never felt right. Mourinho signed him and everyone was excited. Pretty quickly they started having their little spat. Pogba's surrounding group became vocal against Mourinho. Raiola chatting his mouth off constantly. United fans got annoyed pretty quickly. Then constant injuries and a mixture of being used incorrectly in a way that exposes him to making mistakes, combined with him making sloppy mistakes, led to more fans getting on his back and getting tired with a perceived lack of workrate/defensive concentration, equating that to laziness. And then some very long injuries and clearly a desire to leave ages ago.

Its been a situation created by everyone. Managers using him incorrectly and having an environment that nobody can thrive in. Club forcing an unhappy player to stay. Player probably not doing everything he can to be his best self for the club, being injury prone as he is never helps, and then all the noise constantly around him. Fans getting on his back and having that bit of resentment from the start.

I do think the fan issue is very easily resolved and fans move on quickly if other things click. But because they haven't clicked, he got it harder.

 

[glazed]

There is nothing wrong with them in the right situation. There's a lot wrong with chasing women if you're a married man like Pogba is. There's a lot wrong with going clubbing and going for women if you're a married man but also a devout Muslim like he is.

Well these aren't my values but you are welcome to them if they are yours. You are free to imagine Pogba doing whatever you want in Dubai and so am I. Neither has any basis in fact though. As you say I can't imagine any other reason to want to go to Dubai, but that's probably just me.

 

[Rozay]

Its been a relationship that from all sides, never felt right. Mourinho signed him and everyone was excited. Pretty quickly they started having their little spat. Pogba's surrounding group became vocal against Mourinho. Raiola chatting his mouth off constantly. United fans got annoyed pretty quickly. Then constant injuries and a mixture of being used incorrectly in a way that exposes him to making mistakes, combined with him making sloppy mistakes, led to more fans getting on his back and getting tired with a perceived lack of workrate/defensive concentration, equating that to laziness. And then some very long injuries and clearly a desire to leave ages ago.

Its been a situation created by everyone. Managers using him incorrectly and having an environment that nobody can thrive in. Club forcing an unhappy player to stay. Player probably not doing everything he can to be his best self for the club, being injury prone as he is never helps, and then all the noise constantly around him. Fans getting on his back and having that bit of resentment from the start.

I do think the fan issue is very easily resolved and fans move on quickly if other things click. But because they haven't clicked, he got it harder.

Yea I agree with all of that.

I do feel that the fan side of things is more subjective though. Certainly from a caf perspective at least. I‘ve seen fans saying things that are not there, or ignoring/being oblivious to things that are. I’ve had many a debate about certain players over the years on here, and in the end just figured I will need to wait until the emotion wears off. The power of interpretation when fans actually like a player is pretty strong. I can go back to arguments I had in the Scott thread from years ago. People were not ready to see things that were literally happening, and instead spent more time filling in certain blanks largely based on feeling IMO. Same in various Tuanzebe threads. Same from the earliest Bruno Fernandes thread.

I say all this to say, not that I know more about football than everyone else, but if Pogba was a more popular guy, the narrative about the actual ball-kicking would also be very different, because there have been enough good mixed with the bad to spin it that way if he was a favourite. I remember a Gary Neville monologue after Pogba missed a penalty (that he won brilliantly by the way) which started ‘I was thinking typical selfish Pogba’, before accepting that perhaps Pogba is the penalty taker, but then continued to talk about how selfish it would be if, hypothetically, he wasn’t. These things wouldn’t have happened with another player. I remember that game and it was actually a very good performance from Pogba too, but there’s always been a cloud.

In summary though, I agree with the entire thing being doomed from all sides, for various reasons, and I accept that Pogba himself (and entourage) has contributed both on and off the field. I personally can’t wait for it to be over. I must say that I haven’t liked what I’ve seen though, particularly this season. I think the fact that his contract is ending has, for the first time given people some sort of license to now do/say whatever they REALLY think, without hiding behind soundbites like ‘always back out players no matter what’ - and most of it has been disappointingly hateful online, and culminated in booing in the stadium. It’s like everyone has felt that they don’t have to pretend anymore, and this thread has been something of a safe space for those who hate the player. Again, will be glad to move on from it all.

 

[bosnian_red]

Well these aren't my values but you are welcome to them if they are yours. You are free to imagine Pogba doing whatever you want in Dubai and so am I. Neither has any basis in fact though. As you say I can't imagine any other reason to want to go to Dubai, but that's probably just me.

Going clubbing and chasing women while bein married is "acceptable behavior" to you? Alright then... Add on the fact he's a Muslim, add on the fact he's a professional footballer. Yeah. Weird as feck comment.

Like I said. Hot weather. Beaches. Muslim majority country. That probably matters to him. The religion part doesn't matter to people who aren't religious. The only appeal to dubai for me would be the beaches and the hot weather personally.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yea I agree with all of that.

I do feel that the fan side of things is more subjective though. Certainly from a caf perspective at least. I‘ve seen fans saying things that are not there, or ignoring/being oblivious to things that are. I’ve had many a debate about certain players over the years on here, and in the end just figured I will need to wait until the emotion wears off. The power of interpretation when fans actually like a player is pretty strong. I can go back to arguments I had in the Scott thread from years ago. People were not ready to see things that were literally happening, and instead spent more time filling in certain blanks largely based on feeling IMO. Same in various Tuanzebe threads. Same from the earliest Bruno Fernandes thread.

I say all this to say, not that I know more about football than everyone else, but if Pogba was a more popular guy, the narrative about the actual ball-kicking would also be very different, because there have been enough good mixed with the bad to spin it that way if he was a favourite. I remember a Gary Neville monologue after Pogba missed a penalty (that he won brilliantly by the way) which started ‘I was thinking typical selfish Pogba’, before accepting that perhaps Pogba is the penalty taker, but then continued to talk about how selfish it would be if, hypothetically, he wasn’t. These things wouldn’t have happened with another player. I remember that game and it was actually a very good performance from Pogba too, but there’s always been a cloud.

In summary though, I agree with the entire thing being doomed from all sides, for various reasons, and I accept that Pogba himself (and entourage) has contributed both on and off the field. I personally can’t wait for it to be over. I must say that I haven’t liked what I’ve seen though, particularly this season. I think the fact that his contract is ending has, for the first time given people some sort of license to now do/say whatever they REALLY think, without hiding behind soundbites like ‘always back out players no matter what’ - and most of it has been disappointingly hateful online, and culminated in booing in the stadium. It’s like everyone has felt that they don’t have to pretend anymore, and this thread has been something of a safe space for those who hate the player. Again, will be glad to move on from it all.

Yeah I agree. I think it's because with more talented players, players with the expectations to be world beaters, people get annoyed at a lower standard. Even if that standard was still arguably the best in the team for most of his time here. A big part is also expectation vs reality. Premier League fans see a guy like Pogba and with his attributes and expect everything. I see Pogba's attributes and think he should've been used and seen pretty much like Zidane was. Who knows what level he could've shown. But people looked at him as a #8 or a a box to box midfielder and tried to shoe horn him there, in an unbalanced team. Fans expected box to box action rather than a playmaker who really shouldn't be used so deep. And now he's physically declined and keeps getting injured in addition to losing a lot of the agility he had, and that just makes him look lazier probably.

For me, Pogba is exhibit A on how to waste a world class player by not understanding him as a player and how to utilize him, and exhibit A on how a bad transfer can ruin your club career from the players perspective.

 

[Rozay]

Yeah I agree. I think it's because with more talented players, players with the expectations to be world beaters, people get annoyed at a lower standard. Even if that standard was still arguably the best in the team for most of his time here. A big part is also expectation vs reality. Premier League fans see a guy like Pogba and with his attributes and expect everything. I see Pogba's attributes and think he should've been used and seen pretty much like Zidane was. Who knows what level he could've shown. But people looked at him as a #8 or a a box to box midfielder and tried to shoe horn him there, in an unbalanced team. Fans expected box to box action rather than a playmaker who really shouldn't be used so deep. And now he's physically declined and keeps getting injured in addition to losing a lot of the agility he had, and that just makes him look lazier probably.

For me, Pogba is exhibit A on how to waste a world class player by not understanding him as a player and how to utilize him, and exhibit A on how a bad transfer can ruin your club career from the players perspective.

I get that. Was always my view on Eden Hazard, good as he was, I looked at him as a waste of talent because he could have been close to Messi level. So I certainly understand. Ultimately, all leads to the same conclusion of it being better we all part ways in the case of Pogba.

 

[Jeppers7]

My post mentioned nothing about wherever anyone would like to draw his success as a player. I said our fans never took to him from the beginning, and they haven’t, not to me. You may think certain things are absolutes, but I don’t think they are at all. Perception is everything. Performances are to be interpreted, and they are naturally interpreted from the vantage point of how a player is viewed. For example, one poster may well accept no ‘excuse’ for what they consider to be a below par Pogba performance. The same poster may then go and make an excuse for a poor Bruno one. On the flip, the same poster may be a bit ‘pfft’ and reserved in praise after a good performance, in fact, they may even prefer to focus on something that wasn’t perfect. Maybe praise would be more effusive for a player they ‘like’. It happens with all of us.

Anyway, without wanting to ramble, I think fans never saw Pogba as one of ours. I think at the beginning of his return, that had nothing to do with him, more to do with the complex I mentioned. After that, he began to contribute to it himself with some comments attributed, which in and of themselves, would not have been that deep at all IMO if they did not come from him. We had a mega thread 3 seasons ago full of ‘I hope he never plays for us again’ predicated on an open dialogue about how he has faked an injury. This is after a period where, if we are talking about a player kicking a ball into the net, as you put it, it would be hard to argue that Pogba wasn’t our best player, or at the very least, amongst our best. He was also very distrusted and disliked. I was focusing on that almost exclusively in my previous post, as that is what the conversation was about when you mentioned how our fans gave him several chances.

The football side has been mixed, but the ill will would paint a picture that it has been a total disaster, which isn’t the truth. I don’t know if there is an easy way to do it, but I suspect that if we look at the caf MOTM awards for every game Pogba has started in his entire 6 years here, he is actually, as voted by the people, in the top 3 for a large percentage. It’s just that it doesn’t take long to descend to the base level of negativity, 3-5 poorer games would do it typically. He’s been hugely unpopular, and anyone who doesn’t share that unpopularity has always been someone to sneer at and label some sort of acolyte. The reasons for that, you can hold an opinion on, I’m just saying that I disagree with the fans always backing him. I remember the conversations on here from not only his first season, but even before he signed.

There’s some stuff in here I did. But not top three, not sure if it’s possible to find that. Would be interesting though.

You always get so aggressive and irrational when it comes to Pogba but thanks for proving my point.

Here is a list of players in the time Pogba has been here, against performances MOTM and % :-

1.Bruno 102 18 17.64%
2. Pogba 212 32 15.09%
3. Martial 268 35 13.05%
4. Greenwood 122 14 11.47%
5. DeGea 238 27 11.34%
6. Shaw 202 22 10.89%
7. Fred 138 13 9.42%
8. McT 150 14 9.33%
9. Lukaku 96 8 8.33%
10. Rashford 265 22 8.30%
11. James 74 5 6.75%
12. Maguire 125 7 5.60%
13. Matic 172 9 5.23%
14. AWB 118 6 5.08%
15. Lindelof 179 9 5.02%
16. Mata 226 11 4.86%

I love doing the research because it always backs up the fact that Pogba has been one of our best performing players, which means that posts like the one I was responding to are not reflective of anything other than nonsense pulled out of their arse backed up by your own, as ever, irrational response to back up my point.

In reality, looking at the list, the poster in question should really have posted in the Juan Mata thread. Club record signing, flown in by helicopter to a fanfare, who has really massively underperformed and produced next to nothing in his time. Mata is generally well liked and won’t be looked upon as the HUGE flop he has been when his career here finishes…..but that’s not down to his performances that’s for sure, as is also true for the way Pogba will be viewed.

Southampton drew 7.1
Burnley won 8.4
Fulham won 7.9
Milan won 8.1
Spurs won 8.4
Villa won 7.4
Watford lost 6.3
Leicester won 7.7
Young boys won 8.2
Wolves drew 6.8
Newcastle won 7.7
Cardiff won 8.1
Huddersfield won 8.6
Bournemouth won 9.1
Leicester won 7.0
Fulham won 8.6
West Ham won 6.6
Swansea won 8.0
Newcastle won 8.5
Everton won 8.4
Stoke won 8.7
City won 8.4
Bournemouth won 7.2
Arsenal won 6.8
Leicester won 8.2
Fenerbache won 8.0
Swansea won 7.7
West Ham drew 6.9
Palace won 8.0
St ettienne won 7.2
Celta Vigo won 8.0
Palace won 8.0

W 28 D 3 L 1

form

6-7 5 games
7-8 9 games
8-9 17 games
9-10 1 game

So we see from this actually Pogba really only gets MOTM when his performances are very high, barring a handful (posters seem to like this term with Pogba) of decent/good outings.

Now of course this will become…Pogba has only played well in these games….well I’d forgotten most of these games myself. I’d struggle to tell you much about many of them and this being a poster who is defending Pogba against what is IMO agenda driven nonsense.

A few things that surprise me (or not)…..some really low scores in relation to performances in games he was brilliant in, Leicester at home first game of the season after World Cup 7.7, City away the game everyone talks about as his one great game 8.4, Fulham 8.6 in Ole’s caretaker game….that was 9.5 at least as a performance. Southampton away this season 7.1 can only be marked down for the result and team performance there. Etc etc.

Other games that stand out, from the top of my head, that aren’t on the list….Chelsea away in FA Cup, Arsenal away in FA Cup, a couple of league games away at Arsenal…..Not a single game from project restart is on this list. Games against City in league cup I remember the team being dreadful and Pogba playing well. Leeds at home 4 assists, So they do surprise me as games he was clearly our best player or Leeds for example it was a choice of two players who were both outstanding, and a lot of the games listed I can’t remember. A lot of games not listed I won’t remember either.

There must be absolutely boat loads of games where he was second or third, but I don’t know how they can be found.

For comparison I’ve done the same for Bruno and there’s some interesting discrepancies, and certainly his awards fit more with what @lex talionis was questioning regarding Pogba’s MOTM awards……

Bruno :-

Sevilla Lost 6.6
Chelsea Lost 5.8
Brighton won 8.6
Spurs drew 7.3
Everton drew 7.4
Brugge won 8.6
Watford won 8.5
Spurs Lost 3.8
Everton won 8.7
West Brom won 6.9
Istanbul won 8.6
West Ham won 8.0
Leipzig lost 5.9
Leicester drew 7.5
Everton drew 7.4
Sociedad win 8.6
Liverpool lost 5.7
Leeds won 9.6

W 9 D 4 L 5

form

3-4 1 game
5-6 3 games
6-7 2 games
7-8 4 games
8-9 7 games
9-10 1 game

Bruno’s MOTM performances 33.33% of the time have come in games where he has performed between 3 and 6.9. His awards have come in results with only 50% win ratio and we’ve lost 27.77% of the games he was voted MOTM in. So it is highly likely he wasn’t the MOTM in many of these games…..but Caf can only vote for a United player.

Pogba on the other hand has only received MOTM in 15.625% of his awards where his performance was between 6-6.9. Therefore 84.375% of his awards were in games where his performances were between 7-10 and our Win % 87.5.

So it’s clear that Bruno is more likely to be favoured in games where we play poorly, there is a more positive regard in general, but I’d also say that Pogba is clearly, as has been repeatedly stated by @JPRouve, a better player in a functioning team, where Bruno is absolutely more a player you would want in a game where you’re struggling than Pogba.

I’m sure this factors in to the way people feel about Pogba too. He’s a cherry on the cake player more consistently…..but I want a great team. I don’t want to struggle and it doesn’t alter the fact that people spouting made up garbage like 1 good game in 10. A handful of good games in six seasons, who only rear their heads after a poor performance or when he’s injured are talking absolute shite.

 

[glazed]

Going clubbing and chasing women while bein married is "acceptable behavior" to you? Alright then... Add on the fact he's a Muslim, add on the fact he's a professional footballer. Yeah. Weird as feck comment.

Yeah I'm not particularly judgmental it's true. Nor do I think Muslims are any less likely to be in clubs or chase women than non-Muslims. Or professional footballers for that matter, especially ones whose seasons are over, especially ones like St Paul who have been cruelly struck down by very real injuries and urgently need to rehabilitate so they can get back for the end of the season.

Now if I had imagined him drinking you might have a point.

 

[Chief123]

Racist? Seriously?

What's wrong with clubs and women? Don't be so judgmental and misogynist. They are part of what makes life worth living.

For the avoidance of doubt I have no idea why Pogba likes Dubai so much. But he sure seems to prefer it to Manchester.

Erm, is there any surprise in anyone preferring Dubai to Manchester? Your posts just get more absurd.

 

[Rozay]

There’s some stuff in here I did. But not top three, not sure if it’s possible to find that. Would be interesting though.

This is really interesting data, and not at all surprising to me. That Pogba has the second highest percentage on MOTM awards in his time here, and surprisingly even higher that De Gea does indicate that in the important 20 minutes after a game ends, people’s views of a performance are nowhere near as negative as they remember them a week or a month later. I’ve said that a few times. Go and look at the first page of the performance thread after each match and it will quickly show that he has played well far more frequently than is credited for.

MOTM in 15% of all games in 6 years is an impressive number. Top 3 is important, because after that 15%, you get games where you get one-off winners who have particularly impressive games, like a Wan-Bissaka MOTM or a Fred, who win rarely. If on these days, Pogba is second, it is still a good number. Fred is always going to win the award in one of his standout games.

Ultimately, if over time, a game hasn’t been particularly memorable, it’s just safely assumed that it was another shit Pogba game. I think for a good performance to survive the test of time, it would need to be punctuated by a goal or assist.

 

[Stadjer]

I've never understood the obsession with Dubai, I went there on honeymoon and it was shit. Pretentious, 50 c heat and dirty old feckers looking your misses up and down every 2 minutes.

I wouldn't piss on it if it was on fire.

It isnt that weird that a lot of professional sport players go there. The anti Pogba brigade likes to use it as a stick to beat him but Virgil van Dijk went there to recover too for example. They have way too much money there and used that money to build the best medical/sport complexes and attract the best people in sport science or medical science. I believe the warm weather also has a positive effect on the recovery.

I really think the whole Dubai thing is just used against Pogba, loads of footballers do it. It is a fairly normal thing but because it is Pogba it is used against him. It even goes so far that someone claims he goes there for women and clubbing... something Pogba isnt exactly known for. He actually seems more of a stay at home family type of person.

Besides that, is Pogba even in Dubai atm or is that something people just made up again? Like how they made up he is faking the injury?

 

[The Original]

This is really interesting data, and not at all surprising to me. That Pogba has the second highest percentage on MOTM awards in his time here, and surprisingly even higher that De Gea does indicate that in the important 20 minutes after a game ends, people’s views of a performance are nowhere near as negative as they remember them a week or a month later. I’ve said that a few times. Go and look at the first page of the performance thread after each match and it will quickly show that he has played well far more frequently than is credited for.

MOTM in 15% of all games in 6 years is an impressive number. Top 3 is important, because after that 15%, you get games where you get one-off winners who have particularly impressive games, like a Wan-Bissaka MOTM or a Fred, who win rarely. If on these days, Pogba is second, it is still a good number. Fred is always going to win the award in one of his standout games.

Ultimately, if over time, a game hasn’t been particularly memorable, it’s just safely assumed that it was another shit Pogba game. I think for a good performance to survive the test of time, it would need to be punctuated by a goal or assist.

Sad but true. For some reason, people simply refused to see the good in Paul Pogba. No matter how well he played you were sure to hear the baseless "one good game in 5" line thrown around soon enough.

 

[Jeppers7]

This is really interesting data, and not at all surprising to me. That Pogba has the second highest percentage on MOTM awards in his time here, and surprisingly even higher that De Gea does indicate that in the important 20 minutes after a game ends, people’s views of a performance are nowhere near as negative as they remember them a week or a month later. I’ve said that a few times. Go and look at the first page of the performance thread after each match and it will quickly show that he has played well far more frequently than is credited for.

MOTM in 15% of all games in 6 years is an impressive number. Top 3 is important, because after that 15%, you get games where you get one-off winners who have particularly impressive games, like a Wan-Bissaka MOTM or a Fred, who win rarely. If on these days, Pogba is second, it is still a good number. Fred is always going to win the award in one of his standout games.

Ultimately, if over time, a game hasn’t been particularly memorable, it’s just safely assumed that it was another shit Pogba game. I think for a good performance to survive the test of time, it would need to be punctuated by a goal or assist.

Top three would be very useful. Games like Leeds at home this season for example aren’t there. There’s a Chelsea game in FA Cup where he scored a diving header and put a wonderful cross in for Herrera when we won 2-1 I think. Loads of Arsenal and Chelsea games too. Anyway I’m out of this thread.....I actually can’t wait for him to leave now. The bastards have worn me down

Nice to speak to you.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yeah I'm not particularly judgmental it's true. Nor do I think Muslims are any less likely to be in clubs or chase women than non-Muslims. Or professional footballers for that matter, especially ones whose seasons are over, especially ones like St Paul who have been cruelly struck down by very real injuries and urgently need to rehabilitate so they can get back for the end of the season.

Now if I had imagined him drinking you might have a point.

I'm not judgmental, people can do what they want, but if you're married and chasing women all the dame than its just wrong. Do one or the other. Anyway besides the point. Clubbing and partying as a professional footballer obviously is also unprofessional. He's never done any of that, which was the main issue. The whole Muslim thing was because he is supposedly a pretty devout Muslim in which case I would say it makes him much less likely to be clubbing anyway (and like I said, there's never been any problems with Pogba partying).

Point is you made a baseless assumption more against his character going against pretty much everything he's ever done. Sure hes problematic in other sense, but no need to start making up other things.

 

[glazed]

I'm not judgmental, people can do what they want, but if you're married and chasing women all the dame than its just wrong.

That's kind of contradictory. Footballers are unfaithful all the time - look at Rooney. You either condemn them or you don't. I don't.

Do one or the other. Anyway besides the point. Clubbing and partying as a professional footballer obviously is also unprofessional.

Is it? If there's no smoking or drinking involved, I don't see why. He's clearly not going to play again this season so he doesn't need an early night.

He's never done any of that, which was the main issue. The whole Muslim thing was because he is supposedly a pretty devout Muslim in which case I would say it makes him much less likely to be clubbing anyway (and like I said, there's never been any problems with Pogba partying).

Devout Muslims can't go clubbing. What is this nonsense?

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Point is you made a baseless assumption more against his character going against pretty much everything he's ever done. Sure hes problematic in other sense, but no need to start making up other things.

I think I said I was imagining it, I wasn't presenting it as a fact, just as my perception of him as a person I have massively lost respect for. Dubai is a fairly decadent playground of the rich destination. You make it sound like he's on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Most unlikeable United player in all my time following the club. I'm more excited by his departure than ten Hag arriving.

Wow you must really dislike him.

 

[James Peril]

I imagine he's already in Dubai neck deep in women and clubs. Where his heart is I suspect.

Paul Pogba has a wife and two kids for christ’s sake, born in 2019 and 2020 I believe, I am pretty sure you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Now I know already by your short little post that you’re an absolute imbecile, but would you dare saying something like this to his face with his kids sitting on his lap? I suspect not. Have a word with yourself, this club deserves everything the last ten years have given us with people like you gobbing off at players.

 

[Marwood]

It isnt that weird that a lot of professional sport players go there. The anti Pogba brigade likes to use it as a stick to beat him but Virgil van Dijk went there to recover too for example. They have way too much money there and used that money to build the best medical/sport complexes and attract the best people in sport science or medical science. I believe the warm weather also has a positive effect on the recovery.

I really think the whole Dubai thing is just used against Pogba, loads of footballers do it. It is a fairly normal thing but because it is Pogba it is used against him. It even goes so far that someone claims he goes there for women and clubbing... something Pogba isnt exactly known for. He actually seems more of a stay at home family type of person.

Besides that, is Pogba even in Dubai atm or is that something people just made up again? Like how they made up he is faking the injury?

Would you say that's working out well for Pogba? Are you seeing the fruits of this warm weather recovery?

 

[glazed]

Have a word with yourself, this club deserves everything the last ten years have given us with people like you gobbing off at players.

He doesn't play for us any more so I'll say what I like. He was stealing a living and deserved to be booed off. I think it's quite possible he faked that injury to get out early. I used to defend him but I now think Jose was right.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I heard he's after starting a new fecking Viber group chat of all things, with him; Lingard; Maguire; McT; AWB and Rashford

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

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[Berbasbullet]

In before the anger

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'd say Pogba is still worse considering the price tag, wages, and expectations he came with.

We got 2 solid but unspectacular years out of AWB prior to this season.
We got 1 solid, 1 so-so year out of Maguire prior to this season.

For me, it's a toss up between Pogba and Sanchez as our worst ever signing - I think Pogba edges it.

I don’t like Pogba and thought he is bad signing for us too. But to be fair he was included in PL team of the year few sessions ago. And he was voted best player in Europa league the season we won the trophy. Even he has been largely shite recent years, has shown poor attitudes and has probably been toxic to the team, you just can’t erase those “decent years” he had over here.


16-17:
- 8 goals 5 assists 9 motm 7.72 avg rating
- Europa player of season

17-18:
- 6 goals 11 assists 4 motm 7.48 avg rating

18-19:
- 15 goals 10 assists 8 motm 7.31 avg rating
- PL team of the year

Those 3 seasons are better than anything Maguire or AWB has ever did for us, and far far better than Sanchez in any sense.

 

[It's B Rubble]

He looks old in that video

 

[Mainoldo]

He looks old in that video

Soon 30

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He looks old in that video

He‘s looked older since he’s got a standard haircut. He should go back to the colours etc.

 

[Gazautd18]

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Don't know how true this is.
But I for one would not be sad for this to happen.

 

[Frosty]

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Don't know how true this is.
But I for one would not be sad for this to happen.

He will be amazing there too.

 

[crossy1686]

Andy Mitten went in quite hard on Pogba (and Lingard) today on the Athletic Red Devils podcast

 

[peridigm]

In before the anger

Don’t think many would care. He’s not reached legendary status for us and would be the same as someone like Jesse Lingard moving to City as far as stature. Would he improve them? Maybe but that is not for us to worry about.

 

[Castia]

They’d soon get sick if him. Not disciplined enough on the ball for them and injured for 4 months every season.

Would give zero fecks if he joined city, I can’t stand him anyway it makes it all the better to dislike him.

 

[RedB4ndiT]

He's so lazy he won't last 5 games with Pep... we all know he saves himself for the French NT.

 

[Bastian]

Andy Mitten went in quite hard on Pogba (and Lingard) today on the Athletic Red Devils podcast

Not really. All fair. Pogba does not help himself.

I do hope the City rumours isn't his camp trying to get United to panic into some Sanchez/de Gea type deal for him. I just can't see any major club wanting to pay him 350-400K per week. He's not that good (over 90 minutes, throughout a season). But if Pep wants him, by all means go there.

 

[Jacko21]

Andy Mitten went in quite hard on Pogba (and Lingard) today on the Athletic Red Devils podcast

Was a good episode that. Some interesting anecdotes. Mitten, Anka and Irving were all fair in their assessments.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Andy Mitten went in quite hard on Pogba (and Lingard) today on the Athletic Red Devils podcast

Was a good listen, interesting how he has no relationships with English journalists and how guarded he is.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Was a good episode that. Some interesting anecdotes. Mitten, Anka and Irving were all fair in their assessments.

Yeah! Was quite a balanced piece I thought, relationship has been a death by a 1000 cuts. Pogba does come across as quite passive aggressive.

 

[crossy1686]

Not really. All fair. Pogba does not help himself.

I do hope the City rumours isn't his camp trying to get United to panic into some Sanchez/de Gea type deal for him. I just can't see any major club wanting to pay him 350-400K per week. He's not that good (over 90 minutes, throughout a season). But if Pep wants him, by all means go there.

He's still got the daft contract on the table so we're past that point. You just hope now that he has no interest in signing it and staying anymore

 

[Relevated]

Andy Mitten went in quite hard on Pogba (and Lingard) today on the Athletic Red Devils podcast

Anything interesting we didn't know before? Is he actually a bad influence?