We will run out of them really fast.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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Not sure if this has been posted before but even if it has, it deserves to be seen again because it exposes the absurdity of modern policing and how copaganda has turned people's innate critical thinking skills to mush.Tweet
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Whoa whoa there buddy, don't you dare think about touching my overtime! It's one of the best perks of the job.A large part of those high costs is the result of outdated militarized policies and the failed War on Drugs. One aspect that should be changed is overtime. The overtime scam has long been a part of the overpriced police. After 9/11 the NYPD was spending about $2 million per day on overtime. In 2000, NYPD hit $237 million in overtime costs while the NYFD had $49 million in overtime and the Sanitation department only $23 million in overtime. In 2019 " sworn LAFD and LAPD employees received overtime in fiscal year 2019, earning an average of $27,737 per employee. " Firefighters, you can understand because there were tons of fires last year in SoCal. But the LAPD making that much in overtime is absurd. Citizens receive no return on investment for that kind of investment in police.
Part of the reason is militarization. " Many have noted that the Homeland Security programs encourage militarism in policing and that militarism in policing is a bad thing.197 Thinking about coercion costs helps show why. BearCats, other armored vehicles, and high-powered weaponry may sometimes decrease the use of force by the police. But other times this equipment will increase the chances that force will be used or increase the severity of force, resulting in additional physical harm and the connected costs of medical care, lost income, and pain and suffering that physical injuries entail. A department with an armored vehicle might reclassify ordinary warrant execution or other police-citizen encounters as high risk in light of available resources (and the need to maintain training on the equipment), subjecting citizens to the risk of increased harm, even when the risks to officers and the public are low.198 Thus, for example, the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office in Arizona used two armored vehicles purchased with Urban Areas Security Initiative funds and a special weapons and tactics (SWAT) team to raid the house of a man suspected of cockfighting, a crime punishable by up to eighteen-months imprisonment."
The second obvious problem with police over the last 30 years has been a ridiculous amount of time and resources spent pursuing the failed "War on Drugs" and the prison industrial complex it incentivizes.
If we decriminalized drugs we could save a feck ton on unnecessary police. Shift the issue of drugs to public health where it belongs. "Cato Institute found that legalizing drugs would save the government roughly $41 billion a year in enforcing drug laws."
The carceral state that goes after marijuana smokers has been ridiculous:
Gee, thanks for spending billions locking up pot smokers while opiate deaths skyrocket:
So yeah de-militarize the police and de-criminalize drugs and we literally save billions of wasted money that goes only in the those who profit from the USA insane rates of incarceration: private prison owners, prison guards and police. We don't need as many cops as we have without the drug war and incentivizes of locking up everyone we can. We definitely don't need to be paying cops $27000/year in overtime while we have a massive homeless problem.
Here is some great work:
" At the same time, many communities attempted to benefit economically from mass incarceration by using prisons as a strategy for economic growth, making the incarceration system eerily similar to the system of slavery. Given all of the documented social and economic costs of mass incarceration (e.g., inferior labor market opportunities, increases in the racial disparity in HIV/AIDS, destruction of the family unit), it can be concluded that it has helped to maintain the economic hierarchy, predicated on race, in the United States "
LAPD officers have been getting vacation days banked in-lieu of OT for years and only recently with their new contract got OT back. I obviously love my overtime, but looking at it objectively there is a lot of money put into it. Although it has been argued that for police and fire departments, it costs more to recruit and hire brand new employees, send them to academy/drill tower for months, and train them in the field in order to keep up with staffing levels. That's why a lot of smaller departments recruit and hire lateral officers that already have experience and completed probation. It should be noted however that a lot of the OT is not even paid by the department. There are movie/tv shoots, concerts, sporting events, parades, festivals, etc. that pay the department for X amount of police officers to staff events, and it's usually all OT pay for officers on their day off.
Because police work is unpredictable, OT is sometimes necessary (department paid) if there's a late arrest, late report, or critical incident. And this goes back to my earlier post regarding police benefiting greatly from liberal labor laws and MOU's. It's not an office/clerical job that you can hold off to complete tomorrow. Suspects have to be booked, reports need to be written and filed, evidence needs to be packaged and booked.
Since this is a George Floyd protest thread, I can assure you almost every department impacted has canceled days off and vacations for all their officers to staff the skirmish lines and/or handle normal calls for service while the protests are going on. That's a lot of OT getting paid out.
The fire department are the real OT scammers! They work two back-to-back 24-hour shifts. What they commonly do is trade days with their colleagues and work FOUR days straight. That's 48 hours of OT in 1 week! Even though their base pay is lower than police, most of them make more in a year because of OT pay. Speaking of Fire, they are a way more discriminatory organization than police IMO. They're a real "old boys club" and almost all white males, with a few black sprinkled here and there. They rarely hire for attrition because it's less opportunity for OT. The hazing culture is like police departments were back in the day. Still, they really have it good. I'm jealous of them.
I agree with the decriminalization of drugs. Recreational marijuana is already legal now, and other drug offenses have been lowered from felonies to misdemeanors, or misdemeanors to infractions. Though according to your 2nd chart, opiate deaths didn't skyrocket until after 2007 where the 1st chart ends. But nonetheless drug possession and abuse is more of a health issue and shouldn't result in the mass incarcerations we've seen for the past few decades.
I understand a lot of people will have an issue with the amount of OT pay for police, but I've been on the job long enough to see other scams like workers comp (staying home for 1 whole year full pay), extended and questionable leaves of absence/sick days, able-bodied police officers doing civilian/admin work, frivolous complaints/lawsuits of discrimination/harassment/racism/sexism/retaliation with significant pay-outs, suing the department for injuries/illnesses with again more pay-outs. And the best one : https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-drop-pension-20180206-story.html
Of course I'm biased, but I don't mind the OT because at times it's necessary due to the nature of the job. And a lot of the special OT assignments are not paid by the department anyway. I personally have a bigger problem with my colleagues who, although grown-ass men and women who call themselves cops, are always scamming and crying or playing victim to get a lawsuit or promotion/special assignment. It goes against what I stand for.
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whats the TLDR? I watched the first 5 minutes and he's said feckall
Well known racist scumbag in a The Sun video? What's not to like?
Just coming back to this and wanted to talk a bit more about how common things are.
I was trying to get figures for how many married couples in the UK there were to kind of compare how frequent / common domestic abuse cases are. I think the best i can manage is saying theres 27.6 million households, which seems a reasonable point of reference. Thats an awful lot of people not kicking lumps out of each other and thankfully a lot of people who wont be subjected to or experience domestic abuse. I expect many of the cases willl be repeat offenders too?
Witnessing it on a daily basis is going to be extremely taxing and give you a different perspective to what most people thankfully see. I have a pretty negative outlook on the decency of most people but i expect you have far, far greater reason to be cynical on the subject. Its probably not an especially healthy outlook.
Similarly with child sexual abuse - most people aren't going to experience or come across it. I dont want to dig through figures for it because it is grim and i'm a big wimp.
I'm as guilty as anyone on this site for the negative rhetoric towards policing. Its petty at the best of times and deeply unhelpful at the moment so i'll try lay off for a while. Maybe breaking this thread into a few seperate discussions would help. So talk of american policing doesn't end up contaminating that of british policing which is a world apart. I don't know the answers to improving british and irish policing. Its a much lesser problem than that of american policing and is more about adjusting small aspects probably. I think theres probably some room for it and for improvements elsewhere all the same.
He said I'm a white Tory who went to Eton and Oxford and the Sun pay me to talk.
Oh man I love that. It takes real balls and they hate it when people know their rights.
Silvio and the boys not gonna like that.
Thank you for sharing your insight, it is definitely an eye opener for me.
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The propaganda against cops is quite something 
There even are talks about defunding the police which is borderline retarded. How stupid you have to be to even suggest that? They are underfunded if anything. Jeezus. I mean I am sure all the criminals and looters would be excited but cmon people.
There even are talks about defunding the police which is borderline retarded. How stupid you have to be to even suggest that? They are underfunded if anything. Jeezus. I mean I am sure all the criminals and looters would be excited but cmon people.You should perhaps read up on what defunding the police actually means.The propaganda against cops is quite something
The police are being used as a hammer to fix some of the most nuanced problems in American society.
Drugs => Criminal => Police
Homelessness => Criminal => Police
Mental Health Issues => Criminal => Police
Wealth Equality => Criminal => Police
The entire point of the defund the police movement is that instead of blowing hundreds of billions of the federal budget on the police force, you can reroute it to more productive social causes which try to solve the problem rather than punish those who often have no way of escaping the problem.
Utter trash post. Do you get a hard-on by being willfully ignorant? You do know "defund" doesn't mean "abolish" right?The propaganda against cops is quite something
https://www.gothamgazette.com/city/...-york-city-police-department-budget-de-blasio
And I currently live in NY. But go ahead poster from Spain. Please show us the empirical evidence that police departments are underfunded (FYI green smilies don't count for anything).
You must be glad the posting standards are so low.
I thought sex abuse rings were only a case when Asian gangs do it to young white girls!
@Sara125 hits the nail on the head, it’s a shame that the same post in differing forms has to be written in response every few pages.
“Stop treating is like animals & thugs. . .”
Where was Eric Garner lynched again. . .
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I have seen people allude to NYPD and to what happened in 2014. It's an interesting example but I feel that people misinterpret it and make the wrong conclusion, it's not defunding the police that is needed but change it's M.O in particular get rid of the proactive policing. Here you have a long article about it but it's worth your time, it's not sensationalist and acknowledge the limits of the observation.
As a whole the Met are doing things to help themselves and have been for years but you’re still going to get a number of individual officers doing bad things and making bad decisions.
The Met have made changes, at IMO, the most important phase, and that’s the recruitment phase. They’ve done big pushes for a more diverse looking and younger met. And now you have to have a degree to join the Met. This will and has been making a difference to the type of individual joining the Met.
They haven’t met their targets for their ethnic groups in and whilst it can be argued more could be done I think the general public should also take some responsibility.
I regularly receive racist abuse at work by members of the public even ones I’m helping. And then you’ve got the cynical lefties who state that every ethnic minority person who joins the police simply becomes racist as well and hates their own. Why would any non white officers want to join the police if this is how they are treated and perceived?
Greater Transparency is another thing the Met have pushed and been open to.
I do disagree with your claim British police getting it wrong is a daily occurrence. I don’t think it is, if it was you would 100% know about it. In order for people to make their point about the U.K. being as bad as the US they’re having to essentially repackage historical incidents as ‘racist police brutality ‘ videos. In America you have coppers choking black people to death in public. Chasing them down and gunning them down in broad daylight. Entering their homes and shooting them for no apparent reason, literally all within the last year. Over here people are posting videos of people resisting arrest and then force being used on them to have them arrested and then claiming it’s police brutality and is the same as the US, it’s absurd.
Especially as there are actually legitimate cases of it here, unfortunately for some people it doesn’t happen as often as they want to believe.
@TheReligion
In response to your post. Yeah being loathed in general is not something I take massive issue with. It’s part and parcel, we have to be held to a higher standard than anybody else.
Where I start drawing the line though is when we have a rising number of people saying we should be defunded based on things going on in the States. Knowing already that we’re underfunded, it won’t be long before certain parties attempt to win votes by defunding us if this movement gathers momentum. It needs to be nipped in the bud immediately.
Secondly, unarmed officers being attacked and nothing being done about it because “it would look oppressive if officers were in riot gear”. Again this is unacceptable and needs to be nipped in the bud.
Defunding the police will take the resources away from proactive policing. The logic is the police will be forced to prioritize major crimes due to decreased resources. In addition, the US has a long history of making deep cuts to social welfare programs during budget crises at the expense of the inner-city communities where much of this policing occurs. Studies have shown an inverse correlation between social welfare and crime.
Defunding the police (not abolishing) MUST happen in the US. The U.S. currently spends twice as much on law and order as it does on welfare. That is abhorrent for a 1st world country.
Those laws that allow cops to keep the spoils of arrests need to be done away with too. Anything that incentivizes arrests should be removed. There are loads of stories of them taking large sums of cash from people because they think it's drug money, despite having absolutely no proof.
If they do make seizures it needs to be fully accounted for and go towards the community and not to fund PDs.
If they do make seizures it needs to be fully accounted for and go towards the community and not to fund PDs.
WTF. I didn't even know that was a thing. How is that going to lead to anything other than corruption? Madness.
Imagine if other public service workers adopted this attitude. Less money for hospitals? Then doctors and nurses refuse to work. Less money for schools? Teachers refuse to teach.
Defunding is necessary to be able to implement the reforms because clearly the police unions are completely resistant to any significant changes to the current system.
If they're acting professionally we wont have to defund them in the first place.
The irony is that you defund them because of their wrongdoing yet expect professionallism from them
EDIT: These cops have no problem turning off their bodycam and shoot someone, they have no problem (insert brutality here) in live TV. You'd think they have a problem not answering your call?
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I don't think that it's a good idea, they need to reorganize themselves philosophically with the same resources that they currently have that's what the NYPD example shows, they increased work on investigative department which logically has an effect on major crimes, defunding the police will reduce the resources allocated to investigative departments. As for the second point in my opinion it's a bit stupid to target the police when the actual issue with the US is your military budget which unlike policing budget is totally crazy, you spend 636bn$ on the DoD alone which is almost four times what you spend on education and HHS, on top of that you can add nearly 200bn$ that are spent on defense related spendings.
I saw AOC’s post on this. She pointed out that the NYPD is majority of Black/Latino/Asian and 20% female so what’s actually going on here?
“Stop treating is like animals & thugs. . .”
Where was Eric Garner lynched again. . .
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What does it have anything to do that I am in Spain...?
Where did I say "abolish"? I know what defund means so I don't need your lessons, thank you. Governments must find money to keep these social programs running without defunding the police (until at least we see a clear proof that these programs work, i.e. decrease in crime rate but even then I am not sure). You call me ignorant but thinking that taking away money from police and giving it to something else will solve anything is just as ignorant but go ahead poster from NY.
Wow Douglas Murray "a well known racist scumbag" you say, my god how utter moronic your statement truly is.
Pretty much agree with @Leroy The Red again with this. As a black officer he's also far better placed to give an opinion on how he personally sees it from within the organisation himself. I certainly think there's an onus on the public here too as it's much easier to finger point than actually look at other ways to help with meaningful change. The special constabulary for instance is an ideal opportunity for members of their community to join the police on a voluntary basis (minimum 16 hours per month from memory) and contribute to change whilst also getting an insight into how policing works in the UK.
When it comes to recruitment I've seen some posters (@Cascarino and others) mention the police aren't doing enough RE recruitment and are missing quotas of BAME candidates. Again, this link would suggest quite the opposite;
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...s/workforce-diversity/police-workforce/latest
A quick snippet would show how the Met now has 14% of officers from a BAME background. The national demographic sits at 15%. The increase in this area is clear across the country so it's misleading to suggest nothing is being done.
Policing is never going to be seen as "always getting it right" by the very nature of the enforcement aspect of the job. Something controversial will always make headlines over the multiple pieces of great work done on a daily basis because society prefers to see this and it also sells more newspapers.
I saw a banner with the names of a number of black people killed by UK police officers at a protest the other week asking for justice. You only had to look at some of the names and the circumstances surrounding their deaths to see that a number had been killed lawfully and whilst committing very violent crimes. At that point you must ask yourself where does this stop and what do you really want from the police as the expectations seem skewed.
I think lumping UK law enforcement in with US law enforcement is simply lazy and misguided as they are two very different beasts.
Regarding Douglas Murray I will share this article about one his books.
IME anyone who mocks the concept usually hasn't done any worthwhile reading on it. Feel free to prove me wrong if you really must.The propaganda against cops is quite something
Do you know anything about these cases? Serious question. As in do know anymore than what you're just posting from Twitter?
It's a common theme on the Caf at the moment to simply see things on Twitter and post them up with no context.
In the UK police do serve as a deterrent just by being there. The more of them there are, the more visible they are and the more they build community links. I remember growing up we had local police who would always be walking a beat. Now you don't see any and if you do they are in a car, and consequently the public has lost the familiarity with them and now only ever see them in a negative setting. The police numbers are not vastly different to 20 years ago so i can only assume they're now all tied up with extra red tape and paperwork.
I'm not in a position to say there is a link and memes are usually misleading but this image is somewhat interesting as Snopes showed the figures are true. How does UK police training compare?
I find it particularly odd how there are increasing calls to defund the police, considering the same people have spent the last 10 years complaining that it is underfunded.
I've been actively been campaigning about this shit for years but I appreciate the purity test mate. Paints you in a magnificent light on top of all the lazy whatabouttery you keep smearing over these threads. Like an old bloke who keeps shitting himself but refuses to wear a bag. Clean yourself up lad, it's getting embarrassing.
What a wonderfully awful post. Much like just posting random twitter articles from a bunch of random people. Lots of bluster with no actual substance. It's a shame really as I had hoped you were posting as you wanted to engage in some serious rational discussion but I should have known better.
Sorry we're not meeting your lofty publishing standards master. We will try harder next time, honest. We'll use citations and highlighter pens and glitter and everything if it means The Religion will finally see everyone as human. Pinky swear. Now are you going to wipe your arse or do you want me to do that for you too?
0:00.00 - 0:01:01 - Intro, Hello
0:01.01 - 0:01:05 - Killing George Floyd was wrong
0:01.05 - 01:07:02 - You can't blame white people for
01:07:06 - 01:07:06 - Goodbye
I listened to about half of it while cooking, then scrolled through the rest, just out of curiosity. It's too whiny to be controversial.