What's the problem?
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
- Start date
What's the problem?
A visual representation of debates in this thread. . .
That's a brutal take-down of Candace Owens.
No, statues are being accused of glorifying bad things. The books (along with the primary sources and archaeological sites...) are fine.
History is written from the perspective of many actors. The victors write. So do the vanquished. So do the people in between. We have Nazi's perspective on WW2, Americans' perspective on the Vietnam War, slaves' perspectives on slavery in America, and so on... Proper history considers all these perspectives to try and stitch together a coherent picture of what happened, as best as they can. Yes that process is fraught with bias and it's imperfect but it's definitely more nuanced than "the victors write history"... not what I've read.
And no one is calling for books to be burnt or museums to be razed to the ground. Statues erected in recent times offer a minimal benefit historical wise. There's nothing about the Confederate statues in Richmond that I can't find in a book. However it's not about the historical value they provide, it's about their position of veneration that's the problem. Not that much for me personally, but for a lot of people in America. Those statues weren't erected as some sort of history lesson, they were erected as a "feck you" to a war waged (in part) to end slavery. So take them down, and put them in a museum, with that exact caption.
Here's a obelisk in New Orleans that was taken down in 2017.
Read the inscription here.
New Orleans is home to many African Americans. Imagine driving past that to work every day.
That blatant caption is the spirit in which many statues were erected across the country. What possible value could there be in keeping them up?
There’s a movement right now to get a monument almost just like that one taken down in Anderson, SC.Read the inscription here.
New Orleans is home to many African Americans. Imagine driving past that to work every day.
That blatant caption is the spirit in which many statues were erected across the country. What possible value could there be in keeping them up?
They represent what the public at the time thought about these people and some people still do, especially those who defended this country and led the nation in wartime; erecting a statue for such people comes under the heading of freedom of expression, even if many others only think of them as racist symbols.
Also a lot of statues, especially in the UK, were erected via public subscription.
There is nothing to stop public subscriptions being used ('Go fund me' type) to erect statues for the veneration of those who fought against slavery, as many have been in the US and in the UK.
I like angry Chappelle almost as much as high Chappelle.
Time stamp?
Thought about that one the other day, glad to see there is a discussion to take it down.
Moving stuff this. Not to say I don't like this version but as a country we could use some funny Chappelle right now.
22:00
"Do we give a feck what Ja Rule thinks?"
Not sure if 50 Cent or Dave Chappelle did a better job of turning Ja Rule into a punchline.
The statue stuff has progressed just how I imagined, with absolute fandans taking it upon themselves to decide who is racist in a historical context. feckers have now defiled the Robert the Bruce statue for christ sake. He lived in the 1200s how many black folk did he encounter?
Slave traders statues? Get rid of them through proper means not chucking it in the sea in a fit of mindless vandalism. Anarchy leads to destruction in all aspects of life because joe-public are quite frankly idiots.
Slave traders statues? Get rid of them through proper means not chucking it in the sea in a fit of mindless vandalism. Anarchy leads to destruction in all aspects of life because joe-public are quite frankly idiots.
Angry and high Chappelle likely overlap.
Nah. Deface it and throw it in the ocean. Statues of slave traders deserve mindless vandalism.
You've completely ignored the rest of the post
Eggs and Omelettes.
Imagine what a world we might live in if people like you had the same outrage at the abuse black folk receive at the hands of the police as a few inanimate objects receive at the hands of protesters?
Because I quoted only the part I disagreed with
When you put it like that, it does seem like statues have provoked stronger immediate reactions.
People like me? I was at a Black Lives Matter event at Holyrood Park last weekend. God forbid I believe in some kind of sensibleness.
Read the comments on here (or any similar post) if you want to remind yourself why you despise half this country
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/poli...systemic-racism-us-economy-kudlow-cpt-vpx.cnn
Cuomo on facts about why Kudlow is lying and how US has systematic racism.
Cuomo on facts about why Kudlow is lying and how US has systematic racism.
I'm reminded every single time I see a Tweet or FB post about it tbh, so many twats.
Just incredible
In Bristol they has been trying for 40 years. No one listened.
With some people for sure.When you put it like that, it does seem like statues have provoked stronger immediate reactions.
Back to the Candace Owens stuff...
I commented on a FB post about her being a con following money with the link I posted in here previously, https://newsone.com/3848636/candace-owens-receipts-con-artist/.
Here's the retort against. Not sure what to say next, if anything. I liken the Soros mention to the Hitler mention - basically ends any sensibility to further discussion.
-- that article said she is anti black hahaha. That is so far from the truth. Like I said before just because she is a republican now people label her a race traitor. And I don’t know if you saw that entire congress meeting but she didn’t down play white supremacy she said there are worst things affect the black community then that. And she explained it perfectly. As far as following the money .. which money ? She works for pragerU. I’m sure if she wanted money she could of joined black lives matter which is funded by George soros a billionaire.--
I commented on a FB post about her being a con following money with the link I posted in here previously, https://newsone.com/3848636/candace-owens-receipts-con-artist/.
Here's the retort against. Not sure what to say next, if anything. I liken the Soros mention to the Hitler mention - basically ends any sensibility to further discussion.
-- that article said she is anti black hahaha. That is so far from the truth. Like I said before just because she is a republican now people label her a race traitor. And I don’t know if you saw that entire congress meeting but she didn’t down play white supremacy she said there are worst things affect the black community then that. And she explained it perfectly. As far as following the money .. which money ? She works for pragerU. I’m sure if she wanted money she could of joined black lives matter which is funded by George soros a billionaire.--
What do you feel would be appropriate under the circumstances?
Isn't there any independent body for these kind of things? Given the current climate it would be the best thing, surely? In order to maintain public trust.
The IOPC are the independent body. The force can self refer if it feels necessary or they can choose to look at it. They automatically become involved in criminal matters or those which involve death/serious injury.
When you cut to the chase of this though what's the desired outcome? There's nothing criminal about it and it seems easily dealt with in house. The public statement from the force sounds perfectly reasonable
Would it not be fair to say that right now confidence in the police is at its lowest in a long time? A simple gesture to forward this to an independent body goes a long way against the narrative that the police out each other before the citizens. It's just a bit tone deaf in the current climate to keep things internally, that's all.
I'm just wondering what you feel would be an appropriate outcome? Is it not one that could by dealt with by the force? The whole thing is on bodycam anyway and the force has been quick to address the matter publicly.
I'm not being snarky. Just trying to see what the end goal is here.
Absolute bizarre comments, its so fecking weird, like why is it bothering them? It’s just not a big deal at all. How is it any different to the kick racism out of football shirts they’ve previously worn or any of the other messaging they’ve done in the past.
But yeah good reminder how without question half of this country are fecking spiteful cnuts.
Imagine thinking that basically being asked to not be racist and be nice to each other is "politics" that need keeping out of football.
They're inanimate historical objects. They don't deserve or not deserve anything.
No one knew half these statues existed a week ago and now, and now everyone's getting so angry about them as if they are some grand source of power. You have one set of people literally acting as body guards for a statue while another set of people want to throw it in the ocean. It's a lump of metal by the sea. Birds crap on it every day.
Because that statue also represented someone who funded schools and hospitals and helped to shape the town of Bristol into what it is. It was never a statue glorifying racism. It was a statue of a man from a time when racism was viewed as normal.
That's not to say I think it should have stayed or even care that it was removed...I actually quite like the imagery of tossing racism into the sea, but people are attempting to paint everything as either black or white and if that was the case statues like this would literally be symbols glorifying being a racist, and we would all know that's what they are.
It's been chucked into the sea now so it should be replaced with something more representative of modern day values...or alternatively something that's slightly easier to toss into the sea if people don't like it.
Similar to the kneeling debate in the US. Its casually chalked up as an unseemly intrusion of politics into sport.
I guess they think it's an easy way to dismiss it or to hide their bigotry behind what they try to pass off as valid criticism. You see it with gamers a lot too, they're perfectly fine with Fallout, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and countless others, but suddenly when the main character of game is gay, a woman or black it's suddenly "politics" being forced in.
I can't really think of an end goal tbh. By all means the force can deal with it but I'm just questioning how it looks to the public. I was admittedly snarky before because personally my trust in the police is low as hell (no point going into it because it's boring but suffice to say it was one incident in many that just confirmed/instilled what I think about our local officers) and for a lot of people I know it's the same - even some of my family (who are sizeable police and military funnily enough). I guess it depends on individual experiences but when you've got an atmosphere that's fuelling distrust in the police, and the way the service goes about their business, to say that it'll be investigated internally is a little on the nose for me.
Are the comments in the rest of Europe regarding this issue more positive on social media or are they full of 'keep politics out of football/gaming etc'?