I did and I took the piss out of it.Read what I said above and compare it with your response.
Damn, what a comeback! I just wish I was a kid in 5th grade again so I could this.
I’ll take your avoiding to answer as “yes”.
Sleep tight, little buddy.
I adviced him on a specific point about color skin. Now if you think that not saying "Hey mister black man" to someone is being politically correct then you may have a problem.
I don't address anyone from far, I just go near them and say, hello. Even if they are 20 meters away from me. I am that polite.
And political correctness wasn't for just that quote, it is for your whole reaction in the thread.
And yes, to answer your original question, yes people go, "hey you mister", and if they don't listen, hey you "whatever their unique physical attribute is". If its a white among black, than hey you, hey you white guy, vice versa if black, if one with opticals among non optical, tall guy among short guys or vice versa. Is that a polite manner of addressing someone? Probably not if it offends that addressed person, but is the intention of that person malicious.
Better advice would be not to call anyone with anyone with any adjective or pronoun.
Who knows who might get offended with what.
Of course you can say ’that black dude’ or ’that white man’. It’s nothing racist about that. Demba Ba totally overreacted and is from now on a snowflake.
It has been referred to quite often, mostly in the shortened version you quote, which alters its meaning. In that altered version there's simply no room for interpretation, so people just agreed it's racist and should be looked at by UEFA, and the comments got buried under new ones.Is that "Romanians are gypsies" comment still beeing ignored?
It has been referred to quite often, mostly in the shortened version you quote, which alters its meaning. In that altered version there's simply no room for interpretation, so people just agreed it's racist and should be looked at by UEFA, and the comments got buried under new ones.
In its full version the statement reads different, and a discussion has briefly taken place. But since then everyone has posted/quoted the shortened version again.
There actually was a discriminatory statement from the Basaksehir bench towards the 4th official minutes earlier ("We are playing very clean ... This is not Romania ... We come from Turkey ... We are not like that."), which can be heard in a long video posted in this thread. But it was not what triggered the red card incident.
What whole reaction? I barely reacted to what the referee said outside of calling it awkward and rude.
And no you wouldn't say "hey mister black/white man", no one normal does that. You would go near them if they didn't hear you, as you initially suggested. What the other poster wrote was outlandish and you know it, it has nothing to do with political correctness or racism, it's just not something that people do.
I am offended by the fact you think I am offended by mere existence of trans people.Some people are so perpetually offended and incensed by the mere existence of trans people that they have to bring their issue up in any situation, even in discussions about racism.
Pretty weird.
The fact you consider referee rude, is what am talking about. Two guys are talking between themselves, and one guy says "that black guy", how on earth is that rude or awkward. Only problem is language barrier, because the word sounds similar to the n word in English.
And above is obviously what has been reported till now, because non of us know what exactly happened off the camera. Even the things on camera isn't clear, unless people know Turkish and Romanian, except Ba's words.
And yes it is something people do all the time.
That is how the world works.
If someone is different than the perceived normal, they are addressed that way. Yes it should not be that way, but it is what it is because not everyone is concerned about feeling of others.
See my thought on this situation is, firstly whatever committee set up to investigate this, should investigate it without any bias and outside influence, without getting carried away with ongoing politics.
Secondly, people viewing this as win over racism or statement against racism is not true. Nobody can sure can claim, the referee was being racist, but every media article and website is calling it racist incident or win against racism. When the fact is, it is not yet established what happened is racist.
At most if they want to punish the referee than punish him, ban him for 10 matches or more, but don't put it in racism bracket. Put it in unprofessional bracket, and make it mandate for referees to address by the names of every staff members including players, which wouldn't be tough. And if not names, than numbers, and if staff don't have number, assign them the numbers, so this kind of situation doesn't arise again.
They weren't between themselves which is the reason why it's rude and awkward, the fourth referee was next to Webo. The fact that you don't get that is baffling but your previous posts kind of give it sense.
Precisely. Spotting and naming the difference in appearance is nothing wrong and does not imply inequality but diversity.I really am not sure. I'm Indian and I've been referred to as the 'Asian' one or the 'Indian guy' and haven't thought it to be racist. I've described someone as the black guy before or the white guy etc. Personally I think seeing someone's race is a positive than a negative. It sure beats the "I don't see colour" bollocks.
I'm not talking about this incident before anyone thinks I'm defending the official.
They were talking between themselves in the phone. Doesn't matter where Webo was situated.
I know its an anglo-phonic world but in this particular incident, nobody is from an Anglophone country. We're talking about a match involving a French and Turkish team, with a multi-national squad, only one of whom could actually be said to be from an English speaking country.
Only in Spanish speaking countriesWhat whole reaction? I barely reacted to what the referee said outside of calling it awkward and rude.
And no you wouldn't say "hey mister black/white man", no one normal does that. You would go near them if they didn't hear you, as you initially suggested. What the other poster wrote was outlandish and you know it, it has nothing to do with political correctness or racism, it's just not something that people do.
What you're saying is a bit ridiculous isnt it?
Dont kids identify themselves as black, white, biracial etc (even just to themselves sub-consciously)? If someone uses skin colour (or height or weight) just as a physical characteristic to identify someone, how is it offensive or racist?
It would be racist only if there is discrimination based on skin colour or appearance wouldnt it?
Just because someone says black (or white, or Asian) doesn't mean they are being offensive or racist.
Depends. Context matters.Precisely. Spotting and naming the difference in appearance is nothing wrong and does not imply inequality but diversity.
Not if its a means of identification to someone else and they don't know their names. Being called black shouldn't be taboo. Obviously if you are right there and they call you "the black guy" when it would be easier to go up to you and ask your name then that's just plain rudeDepends. Context matters.
"Romelu Lukaku is black, Harry Kane is white." -> Nothing wrong.
"Hey you, yeah you black one. Go pick up that garbage." -> Problem
Referee in a CL match (so in a professional context) calling an assistant coach "the black one over there" -> Problem
They weren't between themselves which is the reason why it's rude and awkward, the fourth referee was next to Webo. The fact that you don't get that is baffling but your previous posts kind of give it sense.
And I don't see it as a win against racism and I haven't talked about racism either.
Depends. Context matters.
"Romelu Lukaku is black, Harry Kane is white." -> Nothing wrong.
"Hey you, yeah you black one. Go pick up that garbage." -> Problem
Referee in a CL match (so in a professional context) calling an assistant coach "the black one over there" -> Problem
Interested to know if the last two examples are a problem if you replace the word black with the word white?
Do we know exactly when he said it? I was imagining it was when the ref was talking to him and they were looking at the bench but I’ve realised I’ve assumed that based on a still.
Questions like these deliberately strip hundreds of years worth of context required to understand the connotations.
In answer to your question, how often do you hear people opting to refer to a white person by the colour of their skin? Would you find it unusual if they did?
You have your answer. It would have taken the assistant a matter of moments to find out Demba Ba’s name or number. Instead, he didn’t think it worth the time or effort and defined him by the colour of his skin.
Questions like these deliberately strip hundreds of years worth of context required to understand the connotations.
In answer to your question, how often do you hear people opting to refer to a white person by the colour of their skin? Would you find it unusual if they did?
You have your answer. It would have taken the assistant a matter of moments to find out Demba Ba’s name or number. Instead, he didn’t think it worth the time or effort and defined him by the colour of his skin.
Cheers - i don’t know if that makes much difference to my thoughts to be honest! I tend to agree with you that it might be a bit rude to be describing someone’s physical characteristics when they are standing in earshot but probably he thought, as he was speaking in Romanian, it wouldn’t be understood? It still doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that he’d want to identify the person he wanted sent off using physical characteristics. It was then the use of the word “negru” which kicked things off?The main referee was still on the field and moving towards the bench while the fourth referee was in Istanbul's technical area, meters away from Webo.
Ah I see. So, in theory he could maybe have said this guy here and pointed to him but it’s probably not unreasonable for him to have been trying to give the ref a physical characteristic to identify who he’s referring to.
Cheers - i don’t know if that makes much difference to my thoughts to be honest! I tend to agree with you that it might be a bit rude to be describing someone’s physical characteristics when they are standing in earshot but probably he thought, as he was speaking in Romanian, it wouldn’t be understood? It still doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that he’d want to identify the person he wanted sent off using physical characteristics. It was then the use of the word “negru” which kicked things off?
For anyone with common sense it does matter.
Being a lovely chap and a social person will do wonders for your social life.They were talking between themselves in the phone. Doesn't matter where Webo was situated.
It was the assistant coach, no shirt number and not famous so dont think he knew his name.There were plenty things you could address him by. His name, or, more noticeably, his fecking shirt number. It's no difficult.
Demba Ba's point was valid. If it was a white guy, the linesman would never say "that white man over there". He'd identify him in some way.
Accept it for what it is. I'm glad we're pointing things like this out so they stop happening.
If he is the one black guy in eyesight and everyone else is white, it shouldn't be a problem!It was the assistant coach, no shirt number and not famous so dont think he knew his name.
Not saying pointing to him and saying the black guy was a correct thing to do, mind.
There were plenty things you could address him by. His name, or, more noticeably, his fecking shirt number. It's no difficult.
Demba Ba's point was valid. If it was a white guy, the linesman would never say "that white man over there". He'd identify him in some way.
Accept it for what it is. I'm glad we're pointing things like this out so they stop happening.
You’re glad but you don’t even know what happened, days after the incident and people are still coming in here saying about numbers and shit.There were plenty things you could address him by. His name, or, more noticeably, his fecking shirt number. It's no difficult.
Demba Ba's point was valid. If it was a white guy, the linesman would never say "that white man over there". He'd identify him in some way.
Accept it for what it is. I'm glad we're pointing things like this out so they stop happening.
I don't know, just random thoughts.
Good points.This is going be a bit of a ramble, not even sure where I'm going with this or making a point at all.
He may have said "that white man over there" if there was just one white men amongst a group of non-white man. Probably not though, and I think that's because the official himself was white. If it was non-white official , coming from a majority non-white country pointing at the only white man I think there's quite a high chance that would be said.
I think that's because people will often simply notice who is different to them, or different from the majority if they live in a country where people are generally one race or ethnicity. Certain people will stand out. Now that itself is going into the territory of "othering" I suppose, which as I understand means to categorise people into your group and outsiders. Othering is seen as bad as if you can you do that then you can go from there to my group = good, outside group = bad. Now you don't necessarily have to go there but I think that's seen as the big danger when it comes that sort of thing as far as I understand. You could acknowledge or notice difference without acting that way but it's that fear that drives colour-blindness theories I believe.
Mind you, for anyone to have an identity at all to do with race or ethnicity must by some logic mean they are othering others too. Society doesn't seem to tell a black person not to think of themselves as black, a white person as white etc. currently. In fact it seems that the opposite is true a lot of the time, that we're all supposed to be hyper-aware of our skin colour at all times and those around us. To be aware of such a thing obviously means you need to be able to define what group you are in and by extension those who aren't must be outside it. Basic logic.
I don't know, just random thoughts.
Context is all of their staff are white. If it was the other way round then no doubt the ref would've said 'the white one'.Depends. Context matters.
"Romelu Lukaku is black, Harry Kane is white." -> Nothing wrong.
"Hey you, yeah you black one. Go pick up that garbage." -> Problem
Referee in a CL match (so in a professional context) calling an assistant coach "the black one over there" -> Problem
