And decided to hit the first defender with a cross.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 11
- Clean sheets
- 4
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Valencia did okay, but Rafael definitely would've been an improvement. Once again we're let down by his injuries though. I hope van Gaal intends to be as ruthless as I'd be with the majority of our defenders.
If only he had an identical twin to play half the games he'll miss through injury...
We certainly need a new RB, if only to cover for and compete with Rafael. Having to play a converted winger or CB there really hurts us every time.
Bored of his injuries, we need to bring in a top RB to challenge him, if he stays fit and wins the competition for the place then good on him, if not then we move on without him.
Just to point out, for league appearances so far this season, Rafael is only behind Rojo and played more than the other senior defensive players.
I've no doubt he will be but as manager he's also got to be pragmatic. We all know what needs fixing but we can't move players on until we've got the right people to come in and by that I mean not just like for like replacement of average and injury prone players.
We really paid for not having him today. Someone countered my argument, saying that Rafael might've been out of position for the goal anyway but I would much rather have him defending against that cross than Valencia.
It is really insane that we have no comparable backup for Rafael, at least in terms of attacking skills. You could see from the start today that we're only one-third of an attacking team without him, since Valencia stayed back most of the game and Januzaj had no side outlet to work with.
I'm in agreement with a lot of you, we need to sign a good attacking RB who can push Rafael for his spot. I don't think we can afford to have an entire wing negated when one player is injured.
It is really insane that we have no comparable backup for Rafael, at least in terms of attacking skills. You could see from the start today that we're only one-third of an attacking team without him, since Valencia stayed back most of the game and Januzaj had no side outlet to work with.
I'm in agreement with a lot of you, we need to sign a good attacking RB who can push Rafael for his spot. I don't think we can afford to have an entire wing negated when one player is injured.
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Thinking about it, sometimes wingers are used to add width and stretch the opposition. This is exactly what rafael does every single game. If the team had only rafaels defensive errors to deal with we would be champions league contenders. Its kind of how Barcelona had to compensate for dani alves attacking play.
Surely that says more about the state of our defenders' health, than it does about Rafael?
Just like the rest of them, you can rely on him to be hand in a sick note regularly throughout the season. I don't see why that would suddenly change, and we really need to bring in a new right back who's good enough to be first choice. We're giving ourselves a handicap by placing too much trust in players who can't stay fit.
I saw he as out before the game and knew we would be in trouble.
Every time he gets injured I die a little on the inside. My life just isn't the same.
But seriously he is such an influential player for us. He usually gets among the most touches in a game and really drives the team forward from deep. Valencia and most fullbacks in the league can't do that.
Every time he gets injured I die a little on the inside. My life just isn't the same.
But seriously he is such an influential player for us. He usually gets among the most touches in a game and really drives the team forward from deep. Valencia and most fullbacks in the league can't do that.
I didn't know injuries are supposed to be entertaining
I've been saying this for a while, we needed (and still need) to sign a new right back. Someone who isn't injury prone and can be relied upon. Even when he's fit, he's still an inconsistent player who is capable of making an error or rash judgment anytime. There's no doubting his talent, and I feel that outside of us United fans, he has become quite underrated because of his reputation. But the truth is that even when he's fit, he hasn't been that consistent outside of one season. When you combine that with his constant injury issues, I just don't think it's worth it. We should definitely invest in a RB this summer. I had hoped that Varela would eventually provide competition for the spot, but that idea quickly faded away.
Please name me one player in the world who is incapable of making an error or a rash judgement...
Varela is class. I predicted that he'd take Rafael's spot if only given the chance. I don't know what the fvck United do with players sometimes. Loaned him off to Madrid when we signed Di Maria.
Surely you know what he means, Rafael makes them more often than the average player.
That's up for debate now, it's just when he does, he gets labelled as so because of his history. These days, while still prone to the rashness, he is quite reliable (when fit).
So when's he back then?
Just get Seamus Coleman and a RB cover and lets sort RB once and for all. Rafael can join his crocked brother at Cardiff.
I get the impression you aren't a Rafael fan...
Rating a player is pretty pointless if he's never available. We need defenders on the pitch and not in the treatment room.
Then let's also get rid of Jones, Evans, Smalling, Falcao, Herrera etc...
If he was any good he wouldn't be playing in the Spanish second division at the age of almost 22.
Herrera has just picked 1 injury in his United's career, jury is still regarding Falcao, the rest, well, I would lose any sleep if we get rid of them. Let them warm someone else's treatment room instead of ours.
To be fair whilst the statement is over the top for getting rid of Rafael his injuries are a big problem in the progression of his career. 2 of the players you mention have been at the club 4 months so it's unfair to bracket them with our other injury prone players.
It's not his fault he's injured but at the same time it's hugely annoying that it always seems to happen. More frustrating is that we never seem to want to address issues like this at the time. We have no other natural right back at the club, Valencia should be a stop gap, Smalling isn't good enough on the ball to play there in our system and Jones is injured or not really suited to it either.
I'd probably agree with others that the club most get annoyed with it and will possibly be looking at replacing or at least signing some top class competition for him to compete with.
I am not blaming him either. However the last time I checked, Manchester United was a football team and not an Intensive Therapy Unit. We need players who are constantly on the pitch and not in the treatment room.
I do agree we need to sign another RB and some CBs but I would take a long hard look at our fitness team because it's strange to have so many defenders all constantly get injured.
If Chelsea can have Luis and Azpilicueta competing for the same spot then there's no reason we can't have a top quality player competing with Rafael, particularly given his injury issues.
Rafael isn't so good that we should be signing someone just to be his back up either, it should be someone who can properly compete with and/or overtake him.
Rafael isn't so good that we should be signing someone just to be his back up either, it should be someone who can properly compete with and/or overtake him.
Since it's always the same players i would suspect that they are the problem.
These players have been under three managers, two of which were/are simply world class. Its evident that the issue is not the fitness team but the players
Ive watched him in the reserves a fair bit, looks decent but nothing exceptional, at least from the several games i've seen, its a bit harder to jude a position like fullback in the reserves so perhaps i'm wrong but he didn't leap out as a definite front runner for the first team like a few others have in the past few years.
He's fantastic, if he stays injury free he's one of the first names on the team sheet. We are a much poorer attacking team without him IMO.
But this is the problem, He can't stay fit. I'm a big fan of the guy and I think we look so much better with him in the team but abit like the other crocks, When do you say enough is enough? I think certainly we need to buy another RB, Even if just as cover.
The thing that annoys me most is that he's probably our third biggest attacking threat when he plays. (Behind di Maria and Rooney, usually). It's so clear to see the difference in our play when he isn't playing, especially in home games when we need stretch teams as much as we can.
Well that's the gamble you take with young players. They are far more likely to be injured and far more likely to make mistakes, however they are also far more likely to improve massively and eventually become key to winning trophies (than their equivalent 28 year old signing). The problem isn't having Rafael, Smalling & Jones in the squad. All are potentially great player's that have a decent chance of having careers like Vidic and Evra. The problem is a combination of bad luck and that we are trying to integrate too many younger, injury prone players all in similar positions all at once. I think everyone would agree that if Evans had become the defender we all thought we would be (ie not injury prone and very good) 3 years ago we wouldn't have this problem. Evans would be our main defender and one of Smalling, Jones or Rojo would partner him.
The problem is that Evans is nearly 27 and has arguably gotten worse in the last 4 years, certainly in terms of his injuries. I think he is the one that needs replacing most, with an experienced defender with a track record coming in. You have to bear in mind though if you don't want injury prone, error prone player's we may as well shut down the academy and lower our expectations, as buying a £30-50m player in every position isn't a particularly viable business model.
I personally haven't given up on Jones, Smalling & Rafael; as they have all shown enough talent for us to be as patient as possible. That said we obviously need cover, as if we want to have say 8 first team defenders in the squad (Rojo, Shaw, Jones, Evans, Smalling, Rafael, Blackett, McNair) we can't have 4 that are injury prone.
Exactly! He is vital to our team, much more so than our CMs actually. He is like Evra in that he is a catalyst for our attacks from behind and links up terrifically well down that right side. Brilliant player, but unfortunately he suffers from too many injuries.
I do sometimes wonder if LVG should bring back Fabio at times though; proper cover for both fullback positions and enough talent to give competition for both.
Rafael is 24 years old. At his age Rio Ferdinand became the catalyst of our defense. Jaap Stam was just one year older when he did the same thing and he had zero experience in playing in a top league. By age 24 Rafael predecessor had been a first teamer for three full years and I am carefully avoiding the child prodigies here, defenders such as Maldini and Baresi who all debuted at age 16-17 and never looked back.
I am not expecting Jones, Smalling and Rafael to become the new Stam and Rio, although that's the level they have to reach to become United first team defenders. What I am expecting is that they are available. At this age their body is fully grown and they should have developed enough maturity not to go gung-ho in challenges and injure themselves. . If they can't then, I am sorry but they should feck off.
And where have I mentioned money in it? What I saying is that we need a group of defenders that are dependable irrespective if they come from the youth academy or anywhere else. Time and time again the club had shown great ability in developing and bringing good quality defenders at reasonable prices. If you we really want to put it in financial terms then what the point of keeping 3-4 defenders on top salary when they are never available when we need them? We might as well give them the boot and bring some reliable ones.
Fabio doesn't really have enough talent to give competition for both though, he's a very ordinary player compared to Rafael and Shaw, neither of whom are exactly world class themselves atm. We really need better than that.
At the age of 24 Vidic and Evra were at Spartak Moscow and Monaco respectively and it wouldn't be until 2-3 years later that they truly realised their potential. At 23-24 Jaap Stam was just starting to break into a poor PSV side in the Dutch League (and had injuries at United later on). Even Rio Ferdinand at 23 missed 8 months of Football for being a moron and missing a drugs test, which is far worse than any rash tackle Rafael, Jones or Smalling have made.
The overall point I'm making is it is pretty much a fact that defenders are in their peak between 26 and 30. Now as a club we have 3 options: Put up with the stupid red cards, injuries and lapses of judgement that occurs with young player's (particularly defenders) and hope they come good; buy all our defenders at the age of around 26-27 when they're over this problem (either as a proven top class player costing £30m and £100k a week or a hopeful Squillaci style punt who may prove useless); or a mixture of the two, trying to bed in young player's with potential along with proven player's in their peak.
Obviously the latter option is most preferable, which isn't a million miles away from where we are at the moment. As I said if Evans had stayed fit and continued his form of 3 years ago we'd be looking at a solid back 4. You swap say Hummels for Evans and buy a solid right back as backup/competition and our defence looks good. Hell Van Gaal may think that with some positional training Valencia can be this player, in which case we're basically 1 top defender away.
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