Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Carolina Red]

Not dismissing the terrible nature of whatever happened here.

But it all seems so staged. The car stopped perfectly next to what appears to be a static CCTV pole, the only camera in the area.

To be fair, the car is being strafed with machine gun fire as it rolls into frame.

 

[Simbo]

Is it wrong to question what one sees on social media?

Especially during a war of such fierce propaganda?

Of course not, the propaganda has already broken you though if you even think Ukraine would go anywhere near this sort of effort to stage something.

 

[ooeat0meoo]

Another successful raid on the Russian convoy

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[TheLiverBird]

I missed The speech at parliament

Was it in the grand scheme of things…..rather pointless??

 

[ooeat0meoo]

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[Boavista]

Are there confirmed reports that Ukraine are no longer insisting on NATO membership?

"Regarding NATO, I lost interest in this issue after we realized that NATO is not ready to accept Ukraine. The alliance is afraid of contradictory things and confrontation with the Russian Federation"

I wouldn't read too much into that though. It's probably more criticism towards NATO than genuinely losing interest in joining.

 

[MoskvaRed]

This post is fecking ridiculous.

I’d estimate a majority of the population in Russia don’t care about democracy and believe their country needs a strong leader. Although they have been subjected to 20 years of propaganda associating democracy with the economic collapse and humiliation of the 90s and, more recently, anything they don’t like about the West such as LGBTQ rights.

 

[ooeat0meoo]

50% of Russia's economy relies on fossil fuel exports.
Putin is screwed, now.

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[Ekkie Thump]

I’d estimate a majority of the population in Russia don’t care about democracy and believe their country needs a strong leader. Although they have been subjected to 20 years of propaganda associating democracy with the economic collapse and humiliation of the 90s and, more recently, anything they don’t like about the West such as LGBTQ rights.

I recently watched a full 45 minute propaganda doc made by Nikita Mikhalkov justifying the Russian invasion. Just to get a sense of what arguments were being used. In the dying moments he gave a couple of examples of the terrors of western civilisation and how Russia would never succumb to it. One of the (I think two) examples used was gay marriage.

 

[TheReligion]

I missed The speech at parliament

Was it in the grand scheme of things…..rather pointless??

erm no?!

 

[Carolina Red]

"We can't the tide's in" - NATO, probably

Are folks really still hung up on the “NATO should directly intervene” angle?

 

[Mihai]

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[VorZakone]

I thought this thread was kinda weak. Have his own economy being wrecked for legacy building?

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[Fingeredmouse]

I’d estimate a majority of the population in Russia don’t care about democracy and believe their country needs a strong leader. Although they have been subjected to 20 years of propaganda associating democracy with the economic collapse and humiliation of the 90s and, more recently, anything they don’t like about the West such as LGBTQ rights.

That's not the point @Maticmaker made. The statement was:
"Of course, but I was saying how he (Putin) does present it to the Russian people. Lets be honest if the Russian people wanted freedom and democracy they would have chosen it, like Ukraine has."
which somehow suggests that the people of a country have the Governments and establishment that they desire and deserve.
That's not only utterly naïve, as it misses the point you have quite rightly just made and the extent to which populations can be manipulated and controlled, but also bizarrely suggests that something innate in the make up of the Russian people, whatever that is defined as, somehow intrinsically wish to live under aggressive state control and expansionism.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Powerful speech from Biden. US banning all gas and energy imports from Russia

Powerful isn’t the word I’d use. Guy sounded like he’d eaten a fistful of xanax.

 

[Balljy]

I couldn't see this posted earlier. This is doing the rounds at the moment and really got to me seeing people inside a bomb shelter and the innocence of the little girl singing.

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[ooeat0meoo]

The US Intelligence Committee just met..

Now This LIVE

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Reporter: Is there a risk of going too far with Putin

Rep Schiff: With Putin it's always more risky to do too little
(not exact quote, paraphrased)

 

[fishfingers15]

Damn, Greenwald keeps raging about corporate shills and propaganda and then links a 2 minute clip by Bryce Mitchell hoping to die for Arkansas and ranting about Hunter Biden. Hope @berbatrick isn't still on Glenn's corner.

 

[TheLiverBird]

erm no?!

What I meant was is it a speech that will result in just a bunch of Moron politicians standing and clapping

Or will he likely gain anything from this speech?

Touching our hearts is one thing, didn’t need a speech for that when you consider what we’ve seen happening in Ukrainian

What I’m getting at is what will an address like this get from the UK government? Anything ? Or just an applause?

 

[harms]

Of course, but I was saying how he (Putin) does present it to the Russian people. Lets be honest if the Russian people wanted freedom and democracy they would have chosen it, like Ukraine has. Although there are probably lots of people in Russia who would welcome democracy, there must still be a significant number of the Russian population that does not want democracy, otherwise Putin would not be in power, they have been told to fear the West (in some cases with a certain amount of justification) and Putin plays to that fear.

If people wanted democracy they would've chosen it. If I wanted to highlight the issue of people from democratic societies not understanding the ways that non-democratic societies work, I couldn't have wished for a better worded example.

 

[Gambit]

His speech on a live feed timestamped

 

[Sphaero]

The key here is how much of an impetus the US decision has upon other European allies. It could well be the perfect excuse that some European politicians wanted to start moving towards different energy sources, making deals with other non-Russian entities.

The problem with this line of thinking is that the high reliability of European countries, most prominently Germany to Russian Gas is actually a result of moving away from nuclear and coal towards green or climate neutral energy like hydrogyn, wind and solar (which is in principle a noble goal)). Russian gas was never the endgame but the temporary solution until a complete transition towards green energy, which even moreso than just large monetary investment takes time to build the infrastructure to support that. Putin as much as a madman than he is knew this which is why he attacked when the vulnerabilty of European countries was pretty much as high as it ever will be.

 

[ooeat0meoo]

Damn, Greenwald keeps raging about corporate shills and propaganda and then links a 2 minute clip by Bryce Mitchell hoping to die for Arkansas and ranting about Hunter Biden. Hope @berbatrick isn't still on Glenn's corner.

Greenwald is a dirtbag

Also wrote off Edward Snowden leading up to this invasion.

 

[MoskvaRed]

That's not the point @Maticmaker made. The statement was:
"Of course, but I was saying how he (Putin) does present it to the Russian people. Lets be honest if the Russian people wanted freedom and democracy they would have chosen it, like Ukraine has."
which somehow suggests that the people of a country have the Governments and establishment that they desire and deserve.
That's not only utterly naïve, as it misses the point you have quite rightly just made and the extent to which populations can be manipulated and controlled, but also bizarrely suggests that something innate in the make up of the Russian people, whatever that is defined as, somehow intrinsically wish to live under aggressive state control and expansionism.

I’m not disagreeing with you - of course people living under authoritarian regimes don’t get to choose, and don’t necessarily reflect, their leader - but I am sceptical as to the likelihood of Russia genuinely adopting Western-style democracy in the near to medium future. Anyway, I don’t want to derail this thread with speculation as to what follows the demise of the current grotesque impersonation of a democratically-elected president.

 

[TheLiverBird]

His speech on a live feed timestamped

Christ that’s a painful interpretation too listen too

 

[frostbite]

That's not the point @Maticmaker made. The statement was:
"Of course, but I was saying how he (Putin) does present it to the Russian people. Lets be honest if the Russian people wanted freedom and democracy they would have chosen it, like Ukraine has."
which somehow suggests that the people of a country have the Governments and establishment that they desire and deserve.
That's not only utterly naïve, as it misses the point you have quite rightly just made and the extent to which populations can be manipulated and controlled, but also bizarrely suggests that something innate in the make up of the Russian people, whatever that is defined as, somehow intrinsically wish to live under aggressive state control and expansionism.

"Something innate" could mean genetics, the human DNA. Then it is obviously wrong, the DNA is the same for all humans.

But "something innate" could also mean the culture one grows up. Do you think that it could be true that the underlying culture has strong tendencies to authoritarianism?

 

[jojojo]

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In case anyone thought he just put on the kit without noticing the Z:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...k-says-he-would-show-support-for-russia-again

 

[Droid_Repairs]

This post is fecking ridiculous.

No, it's largely correct. Do not underestimate Putin's popularity, particularly in cities east of the Urals, rural towns and Siberian agricultural communities.

In certain western Russian metropolitan areas there is more of a hunger for liberal democracy but social attitudes in the country are largely far more conservative than in the west.

Putin is a product of the cold war, several generations of Russians who were told for decades that the west is a hostile threat that is an existential danger to Russia. This is not an easy stereotype to shake off, and Putin knows how to play into peoples' fears and sometimes prejudices.

 

[calodo2003]

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[Rightnr]

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I think they meant to say 'in response to bad PR'.

 

[Drifter]

I missed The speech at parliament

Was it in the grand scheme of things…..rather pointless??

Yes. Unless you are into Churchill

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Zalensky just quoted Churchill’s “we shall fight on the beaches” speech to the House of Commons.

He said that the Ukrainians would fight to the end at sea, air and land so saying he quoted Churchill is like those kids who think Messi snapping his fingers is copying Thanos, or that Marvel invented Thor.

Obviously I can't call you a pleb because you're a staff member so I'll just drop a link below to my list of things you were correct about with your assertion that he was quoting Churchill;

 

[Mike Smalling]

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It would be much more impactful if they also stopped paying them. I wonder if it's somehow illegal, but sounded like that is what IKEA is doing.

 

[TheReligion]

What I meant was is it a speech that will result in just a bunch of Moron politicians standing and clapping

Or will he likely gain anything from this speech?

Touching our hearts is one thing, didn’t need a speech for that when you consider what we’ve seen happening in Ukrainian

What I’m getting at is what will an address like this get from the UK government? Anything ? Or just an applause?

What does any such achieve in that case?

I’m not sure what your point is or what you’re expecting.

The fact it’s never been done before in the history of the Commons is something. If it unites the house into increasing sanctions, improving the visa situation and increasing the support for the Ukraine it’s worth it.

 

[TheReligion]

He said that the Ukrainians would fight to the end at sea, air and land so saying he quoted Churchill is like those kids who think Messi snapping his fingers is copying Thanos, or that Marvel invented Thor.

Obviously I can't call you a pleb because you're a staff member so I'll just drop a link below to my list of things you were correct about with your assertion that he was quoted Churchill;

I think to be fair that was very much the intention of Zelinsky. He wanted to show similarities between the UK and Ukraine RE the Nazi fight.

It was a direct reference to Churchill

 

[sullydnl]

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[Precaution]

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Now if only they could close all of them in the US and we'll solve the obesity crisis

 

[MoskvaRed]

I think to be fair that was very much the intention of Zelinsky. He wanted to show similarities between the UK and Ukraine RE the Nazi fight.

It was a direct reference to Churchill

Definitely. He was a comedian/actor and he knows how to tailor his speech to his audience. It was more convincing than Johnson as JFK anyway.

 

[Raoul]

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[horsechoker]

Now if only they could close all of them in the US and we'll solve the obesity crisis

"If United just sign a central midfielder all our problems will be solved"